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Posted: 12/19/2002 11:00:12 AM EDT
We should have a list of these as well.

There's been numorous time I've passed through a city in oregon and wondered where and what the gunstore was like.

I'll post mine shortly, I must get them in order.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 2:22:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Good Guys Guns, Medford. Bought two firearms from them. Pretty good store. Although it wouldnt hurt if they were a little friendlier to customers.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 3:39:27 PM EDT
[#2]
You beat me to the post, I was going to ask the board where the best gun stores are in Oregon.

Here is my take on Portland area shops:
Gun Broker (two locations Tigard and Clackamas)
Friendly people, good selection, but prices may be on the high side.  They do have several good deals from time to time and usually have lots of used stuff.  After buying a few guns from them, they call me by my first name when I come in to just look around.  No pressure.

The Gun Shop (Ballston)
Friendly people, good selection.  Willing to order anything or do FFL transfers for a minimal add on charge.  In store shop will do blueing and gunsmithing.  Bought one gun from them.  All other Portland stores said they couldn't get one or were $100 more.  A lot of 3-gun, tactical and IPSC people buy from them.  They know their stuff.

Northwest Armory (Millwaukie)
Very good selection of ARs, shotguns and handguns.  Prices seem to be competitive in the Portland area.

Keith's (Gresham)
Really good selection of AR, AK, CETME and FALs.  Also goes to the major Oregon gun shows.  He usually has the same gun I just bought the month before for $50 less then I paid.  You have to keep checking.  He goes through a lot of stock and may not have the same stuff next week.  One good thing is he will almost always have 6 - 10 AKs and 5+ FALs on hand.

The Gun Room (Portland)
Don't know why I walked in.  As soon as I walked in the store, the verbal assaults started.  He says he only sells investment grade guns, no CRAP.  Everybody else sells crap.  All domestic guns made after 19xx are CRAP.  I don't think I'll be back.

Sportsman Warehouse (Salem)
The Costco of guns and outdoor equipment (100,000 SF or so).  Had a large pegboard rack of just handguns.  Most models were stacked 2 or 3 deep.  I would say they had 80 - 100 handguns alone.  Lots of rifles and shotguns too.  Prices seemed to be cheaper than Portland stores by $25 or more.

Any other stores I missed in the Portland metro area?
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 3:46:35 PM EDT
[#3]
last_mile2002 you hit it on the head with Keiths and the Gun Room in Portland.  I love Keiths and have purchased almost all of my firearms thru him. He is always at the gunshows and has a HUGE inventory in a small shop.  I went into the Gun Room one time and will never return unless I am in the mood to argue and be a dick in general.  
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:00:56 PM EDT
[#4]
The ones I know of in Portland have been mentioned by last_mile2002.

NW Armory has a good selection.  Prices seem a little steep to me (but not bad).  Everything from safes to reloading equipment.

Keiths is a good place too.  I picked up my AR-10(T) and PSS from this place.  Good selection of guns.  No reloading stuff though.
-------

The Gun Room - Oh crap, you too?  I will never walk through those doors again.  The guy was rude, acted and talked like he knew it all, yet was completely ignorant of many things.  Basically, he doesn't want your business unless he feels you have been conned by his BS.  Weird experience.  

My time with that guy started with the phrase "I'd like to buy that Sendero" and ended after he ranted on for 15 minutes about Carlos Hathcock wannabees and his personal proof that skinny non-floated barrels are inherently more accurate than thicker floated barrels.  At the time I'd say 1/4 of this inventory were Remington Senderos and Varmints.  That's when I drove to Keiths and bought the PSS.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:14:25 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
You beat me to the post, I was going to ask the board where the best gun stores are in Oregon.

Here is my take on Portland area shops:
Gun Broker (two locations Tigard and Clackamas)
Friendly people, good selection, but prices may be on the high side.  They do have several good deals from time to time and usually have lots of used stuff.  After buying a few guns from them, they call me by my first name when I come in to just look around.  No pressure.

The Gun Shop (Ballston)
Friendly people, good selection.  Willing to order anything or do FFL transfers for a minimal add on charge.  In store shop will do blueing and gunsmithing.  Bought one gun from them.  All other Portland stores said they couldn't get one or were $100 more.  A lot of 3-gun, tactical and IPSC people buy from them.  They know their stuff.

Northwest Armory (Millwaukie)
Very good selection of ARs, shotguns and handguns.  Prices seem to be competitive in the Portland area.

Keith's (Gresham)
Really good selection of AR, AK, CETME and FALs.  Also goes to the major Oregon gun shows.  He usually has the same gun I just bought the month before for $50 less then I paid.  You have to keep checking.  He goes through a lot of stock and may not have the same stuff next week.  One good thing is he will almost always have 6 - 10 AKs and 5+ FALs on hand.

The Gun Room (Portland)
Don't know why I walked in.  As soon as I walked in the store, the verbal assaults started.  He says he only sells investment grade guns, no CRAP.  Everybody else sells crap.  All domestic guns made after 19xx are CRAP.  I don't think I'll be back.

Sportsman Warehouse (Salem)
The Costco of guns and outdoor equipment (100,000 SF or so).  Had a large pegboard rack of just handguns.  Most models were stacked 2 or 3 deep.  I would say they had 80 - 100 handguns alone.  Lots of rifles and shotguns too.  Prices seemed to be cheaper than Portland stores by $25 or more.

Any other stores I missed in the Portland metro area?



Well damn!

I might of beat you to the thread, but you just beat me to all the places I was going to post.

I called the gunroom one time and asked about AR's, he started spewing BS about AR's Colts, bla bla.

I hung up on him and never looked back.

I live near keiths shop so I'm a regular there.
Unforutantly, they lack in customers service like most gun shops.
Unless I dea liwth keith, I get dicked around, half answers, etc.  
He has some of the best prices on handguns and handgun ammo, everything is questionible.
BTW, keith is moving his store a few blocks away to a pertty large shop so maybe the climate will change their alittle.

Thanks last_mile for posting those shops.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 8:35:24 PM EDT
[#6]
MillerSHO
When I was looking to buy my AR-15, I looked in the phonebook and called the Gun Room.  I'm thinking hey, I'm going to spend $700+, so I better know what the local going price is.  Well, I asked the guy on the other end of the phone if he carried AR-15s.  I wanted a NEW, reliable and well built rifle.  I couldn't believe it!  He just started to yell at me over the phone!  Anything but pre1964 ARs are JUNK!  Blah, blah, blah....

OK, here is a potential customer calling to asking if you have what that customer wants to buy.  At the very least I would think he would say, I don't give prices over the phone and he would like me to come in and talk to him.  This way he would get me into his shop and he can talk to me about quality and I would not be grading him solely on price.  But, to yell at a cold call?

Like I said, I'll never go back.  If I don't like somebody, I'll send them there and have them ask for a "cheap gun" that they will not keep for long.  
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 8:38:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Keith's is moving?  When and where to?
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 10:08:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Keith's is moving to the N.E. corner of the same street he is on now and Powell blvd
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 10:42:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Out west or portland in WA Co.

Forest Grove - H&K Gun Shop.  Nice old guy in there does custom work; kind of set in his ways but FRIENDLY about it.  Lots of hunting rifles, no evil black guns.  But I've had him do transfers for me and I was able to get dealer pricing out of the deal.

Forest Grove - The Powder Horn.  Limited selction.  Similar to H&K but i haven't done any transfers through them.  Not many hand guns...  for some reason I remember them having a butt load of colt astras in the case.

Verboort - Al's gun shop.  Another place with a good selection of bolt guns and shotguns.  almost bought a rem 700 in 5.56 - good price.  Has a decent selection of used handguns.  lots of estate sale hand guns in the case.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 10:50:26 PM EDT
[#10]
That's exactly the same speach I got from him too!

If you want another laugh, ask if he has HK's or Glocks.

Keith is moving into that old music shop on the corner there. I guess there's a really nice basement with like 4 different rooms there according to my girl, she used to take lessons there when it was music shop.

He's probably knocking out the walls and making it one HUGE safe.

Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:10:56 AM EDT
[#11]
I've known Don at the Powder Horn for years.Really nice guy if your into the kind of guns he deals with. Does'nt carry any kind of modern military rifles and if you ask about them will usually tell you to go out to Fairly Honest Don's(not sure if he is still in business).A good store otherwise.
If you buy a gun from Keith's,pretty much need to know what you want.They deal in volume.Unless it's a slow day,they don't like to BS. Had them order one of the new Sringfield Garands for me and they had it in the store a week later.I was expecting to wait a month since they are popular and are'nt making too many of them.Had a hell of a time finding their store.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 10:20:40 PM EDT
[#12]
MrMaeda,

So, they  have a Good Guys Guns in Medford? There used (until year or so ago) be one in Salem. Nice place. I bought my M1A there and would have kept going back,....and going back...

'cept they closed. I didn't know anyone in there personally so never heard any reasons why.

NMSight
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 12:57:27 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:


Keiths is a good place too.  I picked up my AR-10(T) and PSS from this place.  Good selection of guns.  No reloading stuff though.
-------



I lived it portland for a year and ended up buying 4 guns form Keiths, Best gun shop in the Portland Area.


The Gun Room - Oh crap, you too?  I will never walk through those doors again.  The guy was rude, acted and talked like he knew it all, yet was completely ignorant of many things.  Basically, he doesn't want your business unless he feels you have been conned by his BS.  Weird experience.  


Me too, I would never go back there either, plus its in the Ghetto!
He had anout 300 hunting rifles and thats it! plus he followed me around the store like I was gonna steal somthing.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 12:59:49 AM EDT
[#14]


If you buy a gun from Keith's,pretty much need to know what you want.They deal in volume.Unless it's a slow day,they don't like to BS.



Thats true to a point but if you get to know them they are real friendly and knowlegable, although I was mostly in there on {slow days}weekdays, most of them know me by name.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 3:46:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Medford-  Good Guys Guns off Barnett Rd. Ask for Dan.  Good prices.

Phoenix-  Second Amendment Store.  New place, haven't been there, but friend says its good to go.

White City- Bullet Depot on Hwy 62 about 5 miles north of I-5.  Darren's got a .50, not big place, but good reloading stuff, etc.

The one place I've always wanted to swing into is John's Guns and Liquor on Hwy 97 (I think in Lapine or maybe Chemult).  I bet the anti's FREAK when they see that storefront.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 9:42:34 AM EDT
[#16]
RickM, Fairly Honest Don's is still in business. He's in a business park kitty corner from G.I. Joe's off Cornell and Cornelius Pass Road. Great place to browse but he's anything but honest on his prices. Ammo is way over priced. hippie.gif
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 6:12:39 PM EDT
[#17]
I had some free time today so I stopped in to drooled over his class 3 guns. He had Wolf 7.62x 39 @ $3.75 a box! Ya that's honest.

Bang. hippie.gif
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 12:41:25 AM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:
I He had Wolf 7.62x 39 @ $3.75 a box!



Ouch.

Think I'll stop by there sometime to look at the good stuff though.  Thanks for the directions!
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 2:25:30 PM EDT
[#19]
I was in his store once when he was located in west Hillsboro. Thought his prices were high,but what turned me off is everyone in there was wearing camo BDU's. To each their own,just not my cup of tea. For class 3 would go first to Revelation Arms in Aloha.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 2:55:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Haven't been to Revelation Arms yet but I have got to shoot some of their work, suppressed .22 pistols and a 9mm. I was impressed.

Bang hippie.gif
Link Posted: 1/24/2003 5:21:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Central Oregon:  Arms Service in downtown Redmond near the NE corner of 7th Street/Deschutes.  It's right across the street from the police station.  Nobody else in Central Oregon carries as many handguns.

Metro Portland:  Keith's takes first then try NW Armory.

Eugene:  S&M Guns, hey I didn't name 'em, I was just thrilled Granola Town even had a guns shop.  Prices run a little high, but they have a great array of handguns and rifles and AR-15 accessories.
Link Posted: 1/24/2003 5:27:11 PM EDT
[#22]
TeufulHunden, it's in Chemult.

Anybody every try that gunshop off OR 99 with the giant American flag painted on the side?  I think it was in Newberg.
Link Posted: 1/24/2003 6:01:14 PM EDT
[#23]
I didn't know there was one in Newberg. I'll have to see if I can find it.

Bang
Link Posted: 1/24/2003 7:24:46 PM EDT
[#24]
S&K-been out of business for a few years. Owner was a little on the annoying side.

Nick
Link Posted: 1/25/2003 9:19:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Philomath Gun Shop. Family owned, Wes and Joanne are great people to do business with. Very sharp pricing. Not much handloading stuff.
Link Posted: 1/30/2003 10:24:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Lebanon:

Rickies Sporting Goods

He has a decent selection of hunting rifles but that is about it. Has great costomer service though and is great to work with. Has a bunch of fishing gear too. And While he doesnt stock any black rifles There is a Mat on the counter that is a bushmaster AD so I assume he is a dealer through them and can order What you need.



There is also a class 3 shop here but its pritty much unadvertised and Im not sure if they have an actual retail location only seen them at gun shows. They are involved with the ARPC class 3 shoot though

Link Posted: 2/10/2003 4:21:17 PM EDT
[#27]
definetly keiths then northwest armory, ive bought guns from both.
the gun room LOL, i was looking for a sig229 and walked in there, he had one but it was $1050, northwest armory only wanted $679, i asked him why his 229 was so much more and if he would beat or match the price of nortwest armory. you would have thought i bent over his 15 year old daughter or something, he threw a absolute fit. stating that his service is better and all other gun stores are crooks selling crap. i ask him "a sig is a sig right?" he really freaked out and asked me to leave his store! lol, i still laugh when i think about it. What a Dick!!!!
Link Posted: 2/14/2003 11:18:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Does'nt carry any kind of modern military rifles and if you ask about them will usually tell you to go out to Fairly Honest Don's(not sure if he is still in business).

He's still in business but he'll rob you blind. A couple of friends of mine who are in the guard went in there to buy an m4 upper  and he tried to sell them some random upper(don't remember the brand) and pass it off as an original colt upper. He also was charging a couple hundred over a REAL colt upper. But if you want to try your luck he's across from the cornelius pass winco in a little industrial comlex.
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 6:46:23 AM EDT
[#29]
I can't say enough about:

Chaffee Investment Arms
Gresham, OR
(503) 658-8525

Great FFL to know in OR.  You should see the ammo selection he keeps!  :)
Link Posted: 2/18/2003 11:52:35 AM EDT
[#30]
The Gun Room???  I'm surprised that old fool is still in business.  I remember going in there about 15 years ago and thinking what a clown the owner was.  There was no way I was going to give him my $$.

Anyway, Keith's is the best in the Portland area, IMHO.  NW Armory is okay but the prices can be beat by going thru a FFL.  The Gun Broker in Tigard has lots of stuff but the prices are way too high.  For instance, the last time I was there, they had FN FAL target rifle with a heavy barrel for $2750.  OUCH!
On the positve side, the owner and employee's treat you well and are friendly.

My advice is to find a FFL and use them instead of a shop.  You will save $$.

Spambo
Link Posted: 3/1/2003 10:55:41 AM EDT
[#31]
There's a shop in Albany that I can't recommend highly enough:  Vogarms.

The owner, Wes Vogel, is a great guy to deal with.  His store is very comfortable, and if you're a fan of the black rifle, this is the place.  He has HK stuff (CIII and pre-ban), pre-ban AR15s, SPAS shotguns, and a nice selection of Sig and HK handguns, too. I think he has some Glocks.

You can actually sit in an easy chair to fill out the 4473 and he has a mini-refrigerator where you can help yourself to bottled water or pop.
Link Posted: 3/11/2003 8:39:48 AM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
TeufulHunden, it's in Chemult.

Anybody every try that gunshop off OR 99 with the giant American flag painted on the side?  I think it was in Newberg.



Over by Dairy Queen? That place is loonnnggg closed down. I believe it is a newspaper storage house now.

Anyways, Newberg does have another gunshop in town. It opened up less than a year ago. It's off the main drag on highway 99. Two doors down from the Cameo theater.

It's a small family owned shop (you may be in for a supprise). They have several ARs, do a lot a business with Cavalry Arms, have $15.00 transfers, probably 20+ handguns, and have good prices (for the most part).

They sell reloaded ammo, too.
Link Posted: 3/12/2003 8:59:11 AM EDT
[#33]
In Eugene/Springfield area, a few of the more popular places I am aware of is SM Guns (not S&M), Mazama's and The Baron's Den.

I would not recommend S&M Guns, they have poor attudes and talk down to their customers, but they do have a nice selection of guns.  I just cannot give my business to them due to poor customer service.

I have heard good things about Mazama's located at Valley River Center.  But have not been there yet.

The Baron's Den is cool and you can shoot pistol there as well.  The old guy there is not friendly but Raye is cool, ex military and good overall knowledge of weapons.
Link Posted: 3/13/2003 8:10:41 PM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:
I can't say enough about:

Chaffee Investment Arms
Gresham, OR
(503) 658-8525

Great FFL to know in OR.  You should see the ammo selection he keeps!  :)



What kind of prices does he have on 5.56?
Link Posted: 3/16/2003 12:07:46 PM EDT
[#35]
A fairly well-kept secret is Ole's in Salem, friendly place with decent prices and a pretty good spread of reloading components. Phone 503-585-3889 and ask for directions, it's well hidden.:)

Who has handgun reloading stuff?  Bullets I can find but a store with primers and powder in quntity would be nice.

Dan
Link Posted: 3/22/2003 10:35:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Salem - what is the shop on Silverton Road with the range inside? They have a pretty good selection.

NW Armory - a general thumbs up.

The Gun Room - giggle. That guy......

Shops in general are hard for me to deal with - the "gun shop co-man-doe" that assumes that I don't know anything is always a challange for my patience. Portland / Salem shops are catagorically the worst for this too.

In Medford, go see Ed - Ed Boening of Boening's Custom Guns. Master Class IPSC shooter and Gunsmith. All around good guy too.

Fred and the boys Good Guys are ok - but shop them, they are not the cheapest.

The guy at the 2nd Amendment Store in Phoenix - nice guy - I'd like to see him do well.

Personally, for purchases I prefer to use Jim Spano (FFL) at Bullseye Firearms.

Good luck
Link Posted: 3/25/2003 6:57:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Hey, I'm in Portland here I just want to second (fifth?) the recommendation of Keith's.  They're really great, and I've actually found them to be pretty helpful and friendly even when the store's packed.  

They do all the shows, and usually have some deals on Class 3 arms when they're out.  

Also, same experience w/ the Gun Room.  I asked him if he carried Glock and had to hang up on him after a few minutes of ranting.  What a nutcase!

Link Posted: 3/30/2003 3:17:36 PM EDT
[#38]
You ought to try Garner's out in Pendleton.  I know it's a bit out of the way, but they've got decent prices, a lot of reloading stuff and one heck of an ammo selection.  If they don't have what you're looking for, they'll find it and get it for you.

Check 'em out: www.garnerssportinggoods.com
Link Posted: 4/8/2003 8:06:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Newb here. I'm looking for an ar. Bushmaster shorty to be exact. I'm in the eugene/springfield area and was wondering where you guys would suggest to take a look at an ar. I'm fairly young (22) so everywhere I go I get talked down to and not taken seriously. I spoke to the owners of the philoamath gun shop ad the last show we had here at the lane county fair grounds and almost bought the shorty they had there. When I finally decided (read convinced the fiance) I went back but they had sold it :(
Link Posted: 4/8/2003 4:58:00 PM EDT
[#40]
I don't know about your area but I got mine at Keith's in Gresham. Good selection and prices.
Link Posted: 4/9/2003 7:39:08 AM EDT
[#41]
Floyd91,

I understand your concerns about getting talked down to.  I am in the eugene/spfld area as well.  I will say up front, DO NOT go to SM Guns on River Rd.  They will talk down to you.

I bought my first AR from Keith's Sporting goods when he was down for a show at the fairgrounds.  He is not the most helpful, but did not talk down to me.  You could go talk to Raye at the Baron's Den, he is really good with the AR's.  

I have recently discovered a guy named Wes in Albany from Vogarms. I recently made a purchase from him a few weeks back at the last gun show down here.  He has a great attitude, very helpful and friendly.  He does not talk down to you and stands by all his products.  He is really customer oriented.  I will be doing more business with him in the future.
Link Posted: 4/28/2003 4:29:24 PM EDT
[#42]
I go into vogarms on occasion. I think the owner is one of the nicest gun dealers i have met. He asked m and my dad if we wanted to handle anything while i was sitting there drooling over his pre-ban steyer and pre-ban colt. He is a great guy has a class 3 mp5 now.

Justin
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:35:22 PM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:
Lebanon:

Rickies Sporting Goods

He has a decent selection of hunting rifles but that is about it. Has great costomer service though and is great to work with. Has a bunch of fishing gear too. And While he doesnt stock any black rifles There is a Mat on the counter that is a bushmaster AD so I assume he is a dealer through them and can order What you need.




So does Jim Rickie still own the place? I haven't been there in years.

If he does, and he isn't busy, ask him about the time he got a bill before the state legislature to require all state residents to own guns And his day on the Sally Jessie Rafel show. If you do stand back.....

After that, tell him that Dave Richards said to say HI!

He likes long range rifles, in the big wildcats.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 11:04:24 PM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:
There's a shop in Albany that I can't recommend highly enough:  Vogarms.

The owner, Wes Vogel, is a great guy to deal with.  His store is very comfortable, and if you're a fan of the black rifle, this is the place.  He has HK stuff (CIII and pre-ban), pre-ban AR15s, SPAS shotguns, and a nice selection of Sig and HK handguns, too. I think he has some Glocks.

You can actually sit in an easy chair to fill out the 4473 and he has a mini-refrigerator where you can help yourself to bottled water or pop.





I've had the pleasure of dealing with Wes on almost a Daily basis on the phone.  Although I have never met Wes in Person but just talkin to him I get the Idea he's a good guy.  I'm gonna go get me some guns from him when I can afford it.

The Pig.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:45:52 PM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:
I can't say enough about:

Chaffee Investment Arms
Gresham, OR
(503) 658-8525

Great FFL to know in OR.  You should see the ammo selection he keeps!  :)



Thanks for this info.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 4:27:03 AM EDT
[#46]
The only gun shops I go to are NW Armory & Keith's Sporting Goods.  Though I did go into The Gun Room and basically they were clueless about many things.  Also anyone know where to buy Federal XM193 ammo thats in town.  On a side note does anybody know when the next gun show is at the convention center?
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 8:19:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Check the Expo calender here.

Expocenter
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:30:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Another Keith's story:  He does a volume business with Bushmaster.  I wanted a stainless A2 service match target upper, and checked the Bushmaster Website price.  Keith said that he could not beat that price, but if I ordered through him, I could get free shipping. I saved $20 on the upper that way.
That tiny little store always has a two deep line of customers; and they just don't have time to BS in there.  You better know what you want before you go in.
If you just want to listen to BS, try the Gun Room.  That bastard is as opinionated as I am, he just holds the opposite opinion.
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 3:00:12 AM EDT
[#49]
vogarms in Albany
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 12:05:46 PM EDT
[#50]
Heres a good Eugene shop, Powers sporting goods
Robert Powers is a great guy and is very good to customers. Unfortunately, it is not a full time shop and he only does appointments. FLoyd91, Look him up and give him a call, he won't talk down to you (I'm also 22 so I know what you mean).
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