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Posted: 8/30/2013 4:54:02 AM EST
There are two schools across the street from my home. Whether I turn right or left out of my driveway I will have to go past one of the schools. The only sidewalk is on the same side of the street as the schools, so I'd like to know for sure whether or not it would be legal to walk or ride a bicycle on that sidewalk while carrying a concealed weapon.

Can anyone point me to any specific legislation or ruling that covers the legality of carrying a concealed weapon on a sidewalk in front of a school?
Link Posted: 8/30/2013 5:27:11 AM EST
Doesn't apply if you have a permit..
Link Posted: 8/30/2013 8:47:04 AM EST
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Originally Posted By G-lock:
Doesn't apply if you have a permit..
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+1
Link Posted: 8/30/2013 9:57:07 AM EST
I am not sure if this is factual but my CPL instructor told me a CPL holder can drive onto school property with a pistol to pick up or drop off a child if he stays in the car.

There does not seam that they can charge you for walking on a public sidewalk even if it is in front of a school if you are licensed. As long as your intent is not to go onto school grounds.
Link Posted: 8/30/2013 4:05:06 PM EST
According to the statute, even if you walk into the parking lot of a concealed carry prohibited place, you are still legal if you are concealed. There is a footnote that specifically exempts parking lots of those prohibited places from being prohibited. It does not mention having to remain in a vehicle...
Link Posted: 8/30/2013 6:43:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2013 6:59:47 PM EST by lukef]
Some of the responses seem to confuse the federal and state rules, but in either case legally carrying a permitted concealed pistol on the sidewalk near a school doesn't violate the Gun Free School Zone. The Federal "Gun Free School Zone" statute exempts persons who are licensed to carry a concealed weapon by their state. Under the Michigan CPL law, parking areas of schools, hospitals, casinos, and the other prohibited places are not considered "on the premises" and therefore licensees are not prohibited from carrying pistols.


ETA: the citations asked for, a bit long but including the complete text of relevant sections, with the good parts in bold:

The Federal law, 18 USC 922:
q)
(1) The Congress finds and declares that—
(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;
(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;
(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.
(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.



MI CPL law
28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; "premises” defined;
exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or
who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of
any of the following:
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not
precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the
student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school
property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL
750.237a.
(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or
public or private child placing agency.
(c) A sports arena or stadium.
(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101
to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass
and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the
Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating
that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an
establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to
436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available
by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to
436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information
act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.
(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of
worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of
worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows
or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public
entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
(g) A hospital.
(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.
(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under
section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the
Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1,
MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
(3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under
subsection (1).


Link Posted: 9/3/2013 3:33:47 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By glockster:
According to the statute, even if you walk into the parking lot of a concealed carry prohibited place, you are still legal if you are concealed. There is a footnote that specifically exempts parking lots of those prohibited places from being prohibited. It does not mention having to remain in a vehicle...
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There is a section in the MI CPL law stating that parents may drop off/pick up students from school property with a concealed pistol while remaining in their vehicle. The footnote in the law excludes parking lots of the areas listed. I'm not sure if there is a difference between school property that you can drive on and a parking lot, but the law seems to imply there is. Maybe a no parking zone for drop off/pick up only?

In any case, you may legally open carry in any of the CC prohibited areas under MI CPL law. So, technically you could OC on school grounds, but that would not be a wise decision.
Link Posted: 9/3/2013 10:27:00 PM EST
It is part of the "Castle Doctrine" Sating that your vehicle is an extension o]f your home. It also states that you can drive to work and park your vehicle at work if they don't allow weapons on the premasis as your vehicle is an extension of your home. You can also not retreat any further than your vehicle if you are being threatened with a weapon and fear for your life.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:42:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By The_Crusher:
It is part of the "Castle Doctrine" Sating that your vehicle is an extension o]f your home. It also states that you can drive to work and park your vehicle at work if they don't allow weapons on the premasis as your vehicle is an extension of your home. You can also not retreat any further than your vehicle if you are being threatened with a weapon and fear for your life.
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Would love to know where you think it states that because my company prohibits weapons on company property which means in the vehicles in the parking lot.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 12:12:29 PM EST
Yeah, I'm with Tholl on the parking lot on private property issue. You can drive your class A motorhome to work, and even if you live in it the castle doctrine would not apply to you being protected for having any firearm in it in violation of a corporate policy. The same goes for carrying a firearm in the passenger compartment of a vehicle without a CPL. Some states allow it, Michigan does not.

The law may say you can leave your handgun in the car while it is parked in a private parking lot (of a pistol free zone or not), but the private property rights of the owner are not diminished if they choose not to allow them. In reality, would they find out? Not likely if you are careful, but careful does not always enough.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 1:02:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2013 1:28:01 PM EST by RodMI]
I really need to take a law class sow I can begin to understand all the technicality that make up these laws.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 3:31:53 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RodMI:
I really need to take a law class sow I can begin to understand all the technicality that make up these laws.
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Just read the laws slowly. Then reread what you just read. When you're done, read it again. You should now begin to understand it a slight bit. Repeat this procedure three times daily for 3 days. You'll start to get it. Repeat the 3 day routine once per week for three weeks. You should have a slight grasp on it by them. Repeat your three week routine every month for 3 months. You should finally understand most, but not all, of it by then.
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