One of my friends grabbed me and turned on a TV this afternoon.  I still feel physically sick.

I am so glad that our campuses, including OSU, are gun free zones so that we are safe.

I have numerous friends with CHLs that have to leave their handguns in their cars or at home while here at school, because it is our [EDIT: School policy] that OSU and UO are gun free zones.

Later tonight I will be sitting down to write a formal, eloquent letter to sent to our governor, OSU's President, and our representatives here in Oregon.  I can post it here before I send it for any suggestions, and I would really appreciate anyone else printing out the letters and sending them as well.  

I'll be praying for the students at Virginia Tech this afternoon, and praying that no one copycats this as the week goes on.  

Umm if you have a CHL you can carry.

166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school. (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.

     (2)(a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection, a person who intentionally possesses:

     (A) A firearm in a court facility is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony. A person who intentionally possesses a firearm in a court facility shall surrender the firearm to a law enforcement officer.

     (B) A weapon, other than a firearm, in a court facility may be required to surrender the weapon to a law enforcement officer or to immediately remove it from the court facility. A person who fails to comply with this subparagraph is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony.

     (b) The presiding judge of a judicial district may enter an order permitting the possession of specified weapons in a court facility.

     (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

     (a) A sheriff, police officer, other duly appointed peace officers or a corrections officer while acting within the scope of employment.

     (b) A person summoned by a peace officer to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace, while the summoned person is engaged in assisting the officer.

     (c) An active or reserve member of the military forces of this state or the United States, when engaged in the performance of duty.

     (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

--------

d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

^
as stated...
I carry a copy of this ORS in my wallet...

I just reed that he used two hand guns, a 9mm and a .22      
That seems like a hell of alot of reloding for him to do with over fifty victims.  
Were where the people that could of tried tackling him to the ground and removing his weapons??

According to OSP here on campus, there is an Oregon State Law that prevents us from carrying a handgun, even with a CHL, while on University Property.  One of my friends pulled out both sets of ORS statutes, the one quoted above, and the one that forbids it, and wanted to ask an officer why they seemed to conflict.

I will talk to an OSP tonight when they are on rounds through my dorm.

Quoted: According to OSP here on campus, there is an Oregon State Law that prevents us from carrying a handgun, even with a CHL, while on University Property.  One of my friends pulled out both sets of ORS statutes, the one quoted above, and the one that forbids it, and wanted to ask an officer why they seemed to conflict. I will talk to an OSP tonight when they are on rounds through my dorm.

That's a lie, IT's a school rule. NOT law!

Quoted: According to OSP here on campus, there is an Oregon State Law that prevents us from carrying a handgun, even with a CHL, while on University Property.  One of my friends pulled out both sets of ORS statutes, the one quoted above, and the one that forbids it, and wanted to ask an officer why they seemed to conflict. I will talk to an OSP tonight when they are on rounds through my dorm.

OSP is not in a position to interpret the laws. They only enforce them.

I would not go to a police officer for a legal interpretation.

Quoted: Quoted: According to OSP here on campus, there is an Oregon State Law that prevents us from carrying a handgun, even with a CHL, while on University Property.  One of my friends pulled out both sets of ORS statutes, the one quoted above, and the one that forbids it, and wanted to ask an officer why they seemed to conflict. I will talk to an OSP tonight when they are on rounds through my dorm. That's a lie, IT's a school rule. NOT law!

There is no such law.  It does not exist.  Period.

I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV.


Mark.

Yep the quoted text above is the law- it's illegal to have a firearm on school grounds in the above condtions- except blah blah blah,. CHL holder, etc.

Good Luck with that.

Im ticked about todays tragidy... On ABC new they automaticly attack gun owners by claiming that it was a Hight Cap mag used. They even had ols brady bunch there to attack all of us and said that its not the murderers fault but guns fault.

The fact they dont even give a day for people to morn the dead and greve before pushing there liberal CRAP onto other is sickening.

Thank goodness Oregon Legislator is almost over with and there a slim pro-gun majority in the senate.

As a student myself I HAD to know if this is legal or not.  
Ive read through the ORS 166 before and came to the same understanding as Chakup and ORARGB.  This subject been beat around the HTF before too.

It's school policy vs Oregon law.  It comes down to the dilemma of whos rules to abide by.  For me, l go by the Oregon Statutes because it supercedes my schools policy.  I wont let school policy restrict my legal right to personal security. the ORS text quoted by chakup above says it all.

but! just like anything these days, Im sure it could get ugly in court.
I would not ask a "peace officer" about it either.

I can LEGALLY carry at school, but if they were to catch me carrying, I'm sure they would find some way to expel me, and tell other schools in the area about it so I would have nowhere to go.

May not be true, but that's how I imagine it going down...

I am so glad that our campuses, including OSU, are gun free zones so that we are safe.


This is really a sad statement.       If someone in that room had a CHL and their gun there could be alot less dead people.   The campus in VA was a gun free zone.  It did not help.  I believe Thurston High was a gun free zone. "it didn't help"

My 72 yr old mother made the statement at dinner that she would have had tried to do something to the guy.  I just think that scared is scared and there really are not that many heros in the world.  

I can sit here and say I would have rushed him, but I ma really not sure.  I do know that there was way to many bullets fired to say that there was not time to rush him.  He had to reload and more than once.

It is a sad tragedy and there will be gun haters coming foward.  I know that I will vote to protect my rights and that is all we can do right now.

Exactly, it's a school rule.  Now if you break the rules you are subject to discipline by the school, which I am sure will lead to your ass being kicked out.

Look at this from the student perspective:
Sure, you are lawfully have the right to carry on campus if you have a CHL but when the SHTF and you are packing your stuff in your Datsun B210 because you cant get back on campus, what are you going to do.  You will progably going to be pretty pissed off but WTF are you going to do???  Fight it?? Sure you will.  99.999% of students will Just tuck their tails and try to find another school that will take them... Good luck!!!

P_P


edit: I don't mean to distract from the recogintion of tradgedy this country is facing from the events at VA Tech today.

I'm surprised that one person was able to do that amount of damage and the students were herded like sheep and shot. People tend to forget that they outnumber in groups and can easily turn the table in a situation such as this. Would I charge at the person if I was unarmed? More than likely I would if it was a last resort, Get two or more people involved in doing the same with you and your ball size increases ten-fold. One person could have thrown a chair or another object to aid as a distraction.. blah blah.

Quoted: I'm surprised that one person was able to do that amount of damage and the students were herded like sheep and shot. People tend to forget that they outnumber in groups and can easily turn the table in a situation such as this. Would I charge at the person if I was unarmed? More than likely I would if it was a last resort, Get two or more people involved in doing the same with you and your ball size increases ten-fold. One person could have thrown a chair or another object to aid as a distraction.. blah blah.

My thoughts exactly.....while I'm not the most aggressive person, I'll be damned if I'm just gonna cower in the corner and wait. It has always boggled my mind how one person can do so much damage when so outnumbered...weapon or not..

I heard the bastard was on a student visa fron china.I dont think that NICS will give a go to some one with a student visa.So the weapon was most likely black market or private sale.
     
        I would hate to be the poor SOB that sold him his gear and ammo.The fits gonna shit the fan if he bought it at a gunshow.

        It dont matter if the dems get the whitehouse,Julianie and Mcain are anti gun and Mitt Romney was Gov. of MA.This is gonna be the" Alamo " for the Brady Bunch.

Quoted: I heard the bastard was on a student visa fron china.I dont think that NICS will give a go to some one with a student visa.So the weapon was most likely black market or private sale.               I would hate to be the poor SOB that sold him his gear and ammo.The fits gonna shit the fan if he bought it at a gunshow.         It dont matter if the dems get the whitehouse,Julianie and Mcain are anti gun and Mitt Romney was Gov. of MA.This is gonna be the" Alamo " for the Brady Bunch.

MSNBC is reporting the serial numbers were filed off - they also identified the pistols as .22 and .44.  Most other outlets are reporting it was a 9mm.  We won't know much for a week or so - but that won't stop the media (and the Brady's) from making up stuff.

Other stations said it was multiple 9mm's

Quoted: I heard the bastard was on a student visa fron china.I dont think that NICS will give a go to some one with a student visa.So the weapon was most likely black market or private sale.               I would hate to be the poor SOB that sold him his gear and ammo.The fits gonna shit the fan if he bought it at a gunshow.         It dont matter if the dems get the whitehouse,Julianie and Mcain are anti gun and Mitt Romney was Gov. of MA.This is gonna be the" Alamo " for the Brady Bunch.

I know the guy who sold the firearms (he is a dealer and it was a legit sale). All I can say at the moment.

Quoted: I just reed that he used two hand guns, a 9mm and a .22       That seems like a hell of alot of reloding for him to do with over fifty victims.   Were where the people that could of tried tackling him to the ground and removing his weapons??

Not just a 9mm but as they said on NBC, "A large caliber 9mm."  What a bunch of ass clowns.  Still very tragic though.  But it's just more fodder for the media to demonize guns.  No one will mention in the media that if just one person was carrying concealed, it would have been much less severe.

The medai said he had two 9mm handguns while this is still fodder for the media I feel lucky h didnt use a AR or a AK. I belive the killer bought them from the black market or under the counter. Most gun dealers have to do background checks.


Plus I did enjoy what the President said he told a anti-gun reporter stright out that we have the right to keep and bear arms and follow the law and he even hinted at the shooter probably didnt follow the law (which dumb founded the press reporters)

Quoted: Not just a 9mm but as they said on NBC, "A large caliber 9mm."

I HATE corporate media.  I havent turned on the tv to see the coverage of this because I know what will be said.  I know what happened, but i dont want to hear all the spin and bias shit that comes with it.  Very sad and disturbing tragedy today, but the coverage of the event will be even more sad, disturbing, and sick.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm surprised that one person was able to do that amount of damage and the students were herded like sheep and shot. People tend to forget that they outnumber in groups and can easily turn the table in a situation such as this. Would I charge at the person if I was unarmed? More than likely I would if it was a last resort, Get two or more people involved in doing the same with you and your ball size increases ten-fold. One person could have thrown a chair or another object to aid as a distraction.. blah blah. My thoughts exactly.....while I'm not the most aggressive person, I'll be damned if I'm just gonna cower in the corner and wait. It has always boggled my mind how one person can do so much damage when so outnumbered...weapon or not..

Our media teaches us and our kids (thankfully I have none) to be pussies.  To "run away" and that the super hero or police officer will come to save you!   It's absolutely no surprise that a room full of young adults may have reacted this way.

Im just watched the first part of a news cast on the shooting. Eye whitnesses report of the killer reloading after 10 or 8 shots from a 9mm and a .22 cal pistols. So since hi-cap mags appear to be not used will the media take a clue????................NOT

When I was in high school the plan for this scenario was this-

"OK everyone, there is a gunman loose on campus so let's lock ourselves in this room and sit in the corner and we'll all be safe and sound..."

If they ever lock down Mt. Hood you can bet your ass I wont stay in a damn room... and I'll be packing...

Brian Stubbs (I hope that's right) backed by OFF already tried to get the School's "rule" changed.  But the courts wouldn't hear the case because no one had been harmed.  It's going to take one of us to get kicked out of school and then go to court before this law will be changed.  

As was pointed out by numerous people, it is in fact a school policy to be a gun free zone. The state law is as quoted above.

Now, I've never been in a fight in my life.  I know almost nothing about boxing or martial arts or anything.  However, if I can hear gunshots and screams next door, I'm not going to go hide in a corner...I'm going to be standing behind the door with a chair.  

Of course, all this is easily said while I sit safely (?) at my desk in my comfortable dorm room across the country and a full 12 hours after it happened.  Still....I mean, at that point, I know I am dead either way.  I can wait for him to come to me...or I can try to bring it to him.  At least one way I have some sort of a chance of success.

I saw that comment about the "High Caliber 9mm" followed by the talk about the high capacity magazines that were illegal before.  It made me mad, but I'll deal with that later.  Right now I can't imagine how the families of the Virginia students feel.  

Quoted: As was pointed out by numerous people, it is in fact a school policy to be a gun free zone. The state law is as quoted above. Now, I've never been in a fight in my life.  I know almost nothing about boxing or martial arts or anything.  However, if I can hear gunshots and screams next door, I'm not going to go hide in a corner...I'm going to be standing behind the door with a chair.   Of course, all this is easily said while I sit safely (?) at my desk in my comfortable dorm room across the country and a full 12 hours after it happened.  Still....I mean, at that point, I know I am dead either way.  I can wait for him to come to me...or I can try to bring it to him.  At least one way I have some sort of a chance of success. I saw that comment about the "High Caliber 9mm" followed by the talk about the high capacity magazines that were illegal before.  It made me mad, but I'll deal with that later.  Right now I can't imagine how the families of the Virginia students feel.

Yeah but eye whitnesses said he had to reload after 8-10 shots. NO HI CAPS where used!!!

This one hits close to home. I am a graduate of Virginia Tech. When they mention these buildings and classrooms I can very distinctly remember me being in them.

The problem stems from the environment at VT. The last year I was there, there was a woman who was pushed out a 12th story window when she was sleeping off a night of partying, a guy who tried to commit suicide by jumping off the stadium, a very heinous rape on campus, and a few other things I'd care not to repeat.

Also note that Blacksburg is very isolated. The school is bigger than the town (30,000 vs. about 15,000 people). There are no major cities nearby, so everyone is away from home. There ain't much to do besides school, drinking, any outdoorsy stuff, and running to the nearest Wal-Mart in Christiansburg (2-3am is when the restock...). Coupled with some depressing weather, classes, hormones, peer pressure, etc. I've seen people have a real rough time with it and do some very stupid things.

With the tragedy there is the usual media slime, and all the fanatics using this to further their agenda (that includes both sides of the gun control issue).

The bottom line is, whoever this kid was, was very disturbed. I believe he would have done something anyway. The previous bomb threats, the two locations, etc. There is more to this story than a random act of violence. There was intent in going to one of the dorms and killing, then hauling over to one of the class buildings and killing there. At the end, he was satisfied and killed himself. Eventually we may find out the whole story.

In the meantime though, he used a gun. If he didn't have a gun, maybe a bomb, or a big knife, or even a baseball bat. This man was going to kill. Unfortunately his proficiency with a gun made him very effective.

After a little heart searching, I'll be honest. If I was confronted with this (i.e. shots down the hall), I'd be no hero. I would be hauling my ass away from the situation as fast as I could go. If cornered, I'd fight...probably to the death. This is where the CHL or equivalent, would definitely help. One unarmed engineering nerd versus a madman with a gun is not good odds.

Anyway, back to my point. The issue here is not what he used to kill or what his motivations were. But the fact that someone was let to fester and get so deranged that he thought killing and suicide were his only options. Where were his friends? Roommates? Anyone that cared about him?

Anyway, enough of my rant.

Quoted: I am so glad that our campuses, including OSU, are gun free zones so that we are safe.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not.  Gun free? If someone is intent on doing harm, the only people on campus without guns are going to be the law abiding students and the campus police.

IMHO, MORE people need to be carrying.  My only gripe is that the CHL is too easy to get; I've got one.  We should be required to have more marksmamship training, and ongoing (every 2-3 years) marksmanship training where you actually shoot the darn thing and be able to hit something consistently.  Then, if a CHL carrier intervenes in these situations they ought to get a medal!

OSU is NOT legally gun free! Their policy dictates that the campus is suposed to be weapon free, but since the University is state funded and therefore a PUBLIC facility, only the STATE can decide wether to (il)legally make it a weapon free zone. Pursuant to ORS 166.290(?) you are NOT prohibited from carrying a concealed weapon on campus(which is a public facility). <-STRIKE ALL THAT

ORS 166.360 (Definitions)
...
(4) “Public building” means a hospital, a capitol building, a public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315, a college or university, a city hall or the residence of any state official elected by the state at large, and the grounds adjacent to each such building. The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405, other than a court facility.

ORS 166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions;
(3)(d) ORS 166.370 (1) does NOT apply to A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun

As it stands, if I were caught carrying concealed on campus, and they even TRIED to suspend me, I would be seeking damages for the cost of my life+tuiton. Their policy is against the law, and last I checked, Oregon does not have pre-emption. Case closed, damage awarded to the plaintiff.

Even if it were a weapon free zone, concealed means concealed and they would NEVER EVER be able to enforce it.

I'm not a lawyer nor am I advocating breaking the law.

Move along.

I just read the morning news on Yahoo today it states that "GUN CONTROL" is a tough sell in congress. It was basicly a one sided piece with Communest Carolyn Mcarthy and Dimwhit Dianne Feinstein decrying that they arnt right now getting a AW ban right away even know the shooting had nothing to do with any "assult weapons" But its a good sighn even though the media is all in the ban guns mood that even liberal know the consenqunces of attack our freedoms.

But we must remain vilgilent  and ready to safe guard our freedoms!

Quoted: This one hits close to home. I am a graduate of Virginia Tech. When they mention these buildings and classrooms I can very distinctly remember me being in them. The problem stems from the environment at VT. The last year I was there, there was a woman who was pushed out a 12th story window when she was sleeping off a night of partying, a guy who tried to commit suicide by jumping off the stadium, a very heinous rape on campus, and a few other things I'd care not to repeat. Also note that Blacksburg is very isolated. The school is bigger than the town (30,000 vs. about 15,000 people). There are no major cities nearby, so everyone is away from home. There ain't much to do besides school, drinking, any outdoorsy stuff, and running to the nearest Wal-Mart in Christiansburg (2-3am is when the restock...). Coupled with some depressing weather, classes, hormones, peer pressure, etc. I've seen people have a real rough time with it and do some very stupid things. With the tragedy there is the usual media slime, and all the fanatics using this to further their agenda (that includes both sides of the gun control issue). The bottom line is, whoever this kid was, was very disturbed. I believe he would have done something anyway. The previous bomb threats, the two locations, etc. There is more to this story than a random act of violence. There was intent in going to one of the dorms and killing, then hauling over to one of the class buildings and killing there. At the end, he was satisfied and killed himself. Eventually we may find out the whole story. In the meantime though, he used a gun. If he didn't have a gun, maybe a bomb, or a big knife, or even a baseball bat. This man was going to kill. Unfortunately his proficiency with a gun made him very effective. After a little heart searching, I'll be honest. If I was confronted with this (i.e. shots down the hall), I'd be no hero. I would be hauling my ass away from the situation as fast as I could go. If cornered, I'd fight...probably to the death. This is where the CHL or equivalent, would definitely help. One unarmed engineering nerd versus a madman with a gun is not good odds. Anyway, back to my point. The issue here is not what he used to kill or what his motivations were. But the fact that someone was let to fester and get so deranged that he thought killing and suicide were his only options. Where were his friends? Roommates? Anyone that cared about him? Anyway, enough of my rant.

My condolences onhow the killings affected you so closely.

Quoted: This one hits close to home. I am a graduate of Virginia Tech. When they mention these buildings and classrooms I can very distinctly remember me being in them. The problem stems from the environment at VT. The last year I was there, there was a woman who was pushed out a 12th story window when she was sleeping off a night of partying, a guy who tried to commit suicide by jumping off the stadium, a very heinous rape on campus, and a few other things I'd care not to repeat. Also note that Blacksburg is very isolated. The school is bigger than the town (30,000 vs. about 15,000 people). There are no major cities nearby, so everyone is away from home. There ain't much to do besides school, drinking, any outdoorsy stuff, and running to the nearest Wal-Mart in Christiansburg (2-3am is when the restock...). Coupled with some depressing weather, classes, hormones, peer pressure, etc. I've seen people have a real rough time with it and do some very stupid things. With the tragedy there is the usual media slime, and all the fanatics using this to further their agenda (that includes both sides of the gun control issue). The bottom line is, whoever this kid was, was very disturbed. I believe he would have done something anyway. The previous bomb threats, the two locations, etc. There is more to this story than a random act of violence. There was intent in going to one of the dorms and killing, then hauling over to one of the class buildings and killing there. At the end, he was satisfied and killed himself. Eventually we may find out the whole story. In the meantime though, he used a gun. If he didn't have a gun, maybe a bomb, or a big knife, or even a baseball bat. This man was going to kill. Unfortunately his proficiency with a gun made him very effective. After a little heart searching, I'll be honest. If I was confronted with this (i.e. shots down the hall), I'd be no hero. I would be hauling my ass away from the situation as fast as I could go. If cornered, I'd fight...probably to the death. This is where the CHL or equivalent, would definitely help. One unarmed engineering nerd versus a madman with a gun is not good odds. Anyway, back to my point. The issue here is not what he used to kill or what his motivations were. But the fact that someone was let to fester and get so deranged that he thought killing and suicide were his only options. Where were his friends? Roommates? Anyone that cared about him? Anyway, enough of my rant.

I think you underestimate yourself my friend.  I don't see you being the type to run away from people being murdered when you have the means to stop said event.  I hope you never really have to find out.  But I have faith that you will do what is needed if the time comes.

My $0.02 worth.


Mark.

P.S.  I can kind of sympathize with your position.  I ate at the Lubys restaurant in Texas 1 month before the shooting there.  It’s kind of a strange feeling.

A rule or a law does not make us safe.  Safety comes from mutual respect- that actions can and will be met equally.

My family’s thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those killed and wounded.

FWIW when I was in skrool, had a CCW, and it was against state law (Arizona) to have a firearm on campus and also against skrool policy. I carried my little SIG to skrool (the Glock 20 on 9/11). Had I ever been caught, I’d have been in trouble with the law and also expelled. I still carried. My safety and well being was (is) more important to me than the alternative consequences.

Now here in Oregon, things are a bit different. It is my understanding that it is legal for you to carry on campus (Given you have a CHL). It is a institutional policy that you can’t carry. If they discover you are carrying, they can ask you to leave the property. If you don’t leave, you can be cited for trespassing. Now, ifin yer a student (or employee) you’ll probably be expelled or fired.

Is it worth it? That’s for you to decide.

Quoted: Quoted: After a little heart searching, I'll be honest. If I was confronted with this (i.e. shots down the hall), I'd be no hero. I would be hauling my ass away from the situation as fast as I could go. If cornered, I'd fight...probably to the death. This is where the CHL or equivalent, would definitely help. One unarmed engineering nerd versus a madman with a gun is not good odds. I think you underestimate yourself my friend.  I don't see you being the type to run away from people being murdered when you have the means to stop said event.  I hope you never really have to find out.  But I have faith that you will do what is needed if the time comes.

Job #1 is keeping yourself and your family alive.  If you are alone you have no responsibility to protect strangers when the risk is dying and leaving your family alone forever. If you have a wife and kids to care for THEY are your true duty and it is downright irresponsible for you to risk your life trying to protect strangers when you could have safely fled.

Your responsibilities change when you put on the uniform of Campus Police, City Police, Sheriff Deputy, or even that of the Military. Then you’d have body armor, full sized guns, life insurance, and a support system to help your family after your death. As a student on campus you’d most likely be ridiculed and expelled by the administration even before your funeral.

Quoted: Exactly, it's a school rule.  Now if you break the rules you are subject to discipline by the school, which I am sure will lead to your ass being kicked out.

The right to own and bear arms is a constitutionally protected RIGHT in both the US and Oregon constitutions.

Telling someone that a school rule forbids possession of firearms is equivalent to telling someone that they have no right to be black and on campus.

They might have trouble using the "private property" excuse too after the last supreme court ruling about what constitutes public areas (someone's deck) in Oregon.

Quoted: One unarmed engineering nerd versus a madman with a gun is not good odds.

News says the madman was an English major, and a Resident Alien (Green Card holder).  As an English major, I see little reason for him to be in the Engineering building when classes are in session.

Seems to be pretty straightforward to me - one whackjob with guns, attacks premeditated.  Evidence:

• The 9mm pistol used (SIG?) was apparently purchased 5 weeks ago.  Serial #s on it and the .22 pistol were supposedly filed off/obliterated.  Unless obliterated using an arc welder, nitric or hydrochloric acid will develop (by etching) the numbers in a few minutes.  Now you know why ATF requires numbers to be stamped.


• It appears he sent in several bomb threats up to two weeks ago.  A bomb threat note was apparently found on or near his body.


• If he shot two people in the dorm room (ballistics test apparently say he probably did), he didn't belong there.  The gunman lived in another unit, and his student ID supposedly wouldn't unlock doors on another complex before 10 AM.  (The dorm shootings happened around 7AM.)


• When the police got to the engineering building, they found the front doors chained shut.


• Several reports say the gunman was a loner.  Others say he might have been taking medication for depression.  Still others say he was referred for counseling after some truly disturbing writing was turned in for a class assignment.

I don't know if any of you saw the news article about the instructor who was a Holocaust survivor, who blocked the doorway with his body so his students could flee.  It cost him his life, but many lived because of it.

This link was an interesting perspective.  It was written by someone on the OCC board.
blog edit to fix link

It kind deals with the going down in a blaze of glory theme.

t

linky no worky Terry.


Mark.

Quoted: linky no worky Terry. Mark.

works now ;)

I forgot to mention earlier that when I was in the process of getting my CHL I researched the MHCC school rules about it.  IIRC the student code of conduct was vague but said that you couldn't have weapons on campus unless you had a license, it didn't specify what kind of license but I know I could use that in court if I ever have to.
I also spoke with the head of campus security and she reacted as though the idea of concealed carry on her campus had never occurred to he before I brought it up. But she did say that she would ask the person to leave the campus.  All in all I feel pretty safe carrying at school 1. because I have a gun and 2. because I don't worry about getting in to legal trouble or being expelled for having it.

24 hrs later and we have this:

Dear David,

Yesterday, we witnessed America's worst mass shooting on the campus of Virginia Tech. Thirty-three students and faculty were killed, including the gunman. At least fifteen more were wounded.

How many deaths and injuries must we endure before our nation's elected officials act to end gun violence? We must ask our leaders: "What are you going to do about it?" What are you going to do to make our schools, workplaces, and communities safe from gun violence?

President George W. Bush said yesterday that schools should be a place of "safety and sanctuary for every student," but he and other national leaders do nothing to ensure that safety. They provide condolences, and then do nothing to stop future tragedies.

Eight years ago this week, we watched in horror as students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado fled a mass shooting. Twelve students and one teacher were killed. Just seven months ago, five girls were gunned down in a school in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

These aren’t isolated incidents. February 12, 2007, Salt Lake City: A teen opens fire in a mall killing five and wounding four. On the same day in Philadelphia: Three men fatally shot and a fourth wounded at a board meeting. January 11, 2007, Indianapolis: A man shoots four fellow employees. The list goes on and on.

There are common threads in all of these tragedies — it is much too easy for the wrong people to get high-powered, deadly weapons and our leaders fail to do anything about the problem.

It is urgent that you email or call your elected officials today.
They must hear that you want action to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

Please make as many of these phone calls as you can:

President George W. Bush 202-456-1414
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi 202-225-0100
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid 202-224-5556

The message for all three calls is simple:

It is much too easy for the wrong people to get deadly weapons in this country. It is time for you to take steps to end gun violence to prevent tragedies like the one at Virginia Tech.
If you can't make the calls, you can click here to send an email, which will go to the President, the Speaker, the Majority Leader, as well as your U.S. Senators and Representative. One click will email all six of them.

The Brady Campaign is working nonstop to get the message out that there are solutions to gun violence. We can ban military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips that make it so easy to kill quickly . . . we can require Brady background checks for all gun sales, including at gun shows . . . we can stop large-volume gun sales that supply illegal gun traffickers. These are just some of the steps we can take to make it harder for the wrong people to get guns.

We are building a crescendo of public outcry to ensure that action is taken. We are aggressively rallying support among allies for our solutions. And we need your continued support to make it happen. Please make a contribution now to keep the momentum going. When you do, a generous donor will match your gift.

Gun violence is a solvable problem. We know it won’t be easy. But we can make it harder for the wrong people to get their hands on guns through strong gun laws.

It is time for our nation’s leaders have courage to say "no" to the gun lobby's mantra of any gun, anywhere, at anytime for anyone, while wrapping it in distortions about "freedom" and "liberty."

Americans have the right to live free from the constant fear of gun violence. Please take a moment to forward this email to friends and families.

Thank you for your support.


Sincerely,
Your Friends at StoptheNRA.com

www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

"Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito
 381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities."

The latest reports say that the 9mm was a glock.Unless it was a model 26 it was made to hold 15 or 17 round mags.Glock did make HI CAPS for these pistols,they hold 31 rounds.So it sounds like he wasn't useing standard mags.Sounds like he was useing compliance mags.

The utter irony I found while browsing news reports this afternoon......

Aparrently, the prime minister of Australia, as well as some other "gun free" nations were spouting off as to how this would never happen in their countries because of the tough anti-gun policies that are in place... ( Sorry, BIG paraphrasing going on here.....)

Headline spotted by me on Google News..."Mayor of Nagasaki gunned down at train station..."

You know, Nagasaki, Japan....where you CAN"T own guns...