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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:51:00 AM EST
I'm sure this has been talked about before but i haven't seen anything so here goes...

I want to try hunting with my AR this upcoming season, I'm confident it has enough power to take down a deer, anybody agree??

Anyways, with that said I need to find...

1) a good hunting round (.223 or 5.56 i can shoot either, would one be better for hunting over the other?)
2) optics - wondering what people have used

All help/input appreciated...
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 5:11:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/8/2009 5:11:56 AM EST by cvann]
Not many people attempt this, as .243 Win is generally considered the minimum for whitetail. Not sure what state law is either.

If it's legal and you have a 1:8 or 1:7 twist - find a 'heavy' bullet that will group. A Barnes 70 grain TSX would do the trick if placed properly.

Any optics that you can afford should be okay in MI. I've never shot a deer here over 200 yards - you probably won't need optics with an AR.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 5:13:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/8/2009 5:15:35 AM EST by bsf]
Heavier, quality, bonded soft point. Shot placement. Venison.

eta, or as mentioned above, a good solid; no .mil fmj.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 5:13:44 AM EST
No need for optics. Practice with irons or whatever you have on the gun now.
Shoot them in the neck with the heaviest bullet your rifle will handle.
If you have a 1/9 twist, the Prvi 75 grain match usually gives good results, but shoot some in your gun to see how it groups.
Most other 75 or 77 grain rounds will not perform very well in a 1/9.
If you have a 1/7 twist any heavy bullet should work well.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 5:18:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By anotherlefty:
No need for optics. Practice with irons or whatever you have on the gun now.
Shoot them in the neck with the heaviest bullet your rifle will handle.
If you have a 1/9 twist, the Prvi 75 grain match usually gives good results, but shoot some in your gun to see how it groups.
Most other 75 or 77 grain rounds will not perform very well in a 1/9.
If you have a 1/7 twist any heavy bullet should work well.

I do not agree w/ "neck shots". I have seen a lot of deer shot in the face/jaw or neck get away. Most people are better off sticking w/ traditional heart/lung vital area shot placement.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 5:36:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/8/2009 5:53:39 AM EST by cybersniper]
Barnes 70 grain TSX 1x8 or 1x7 twist barrel. Shot placement is key.
Midway USA Comments on the Barnes TSX

Do a Google search and you see alot on the .223 and this bullet for deer. It has great penitration and expansion.

Silver State makes it in a factory load.

Silver State Armory

If you hand load Hornady makes a 75gr A-Max but it basically a HP round. Swift also makes the Scirocco II in 75gr that may show results. But the Barnes would be my first pic (I have a box I plan to hand load when I get some time).

If you have a 1x9 barrel, personally I wouldnt do it. But, Remington makes Remington Premier 62 Grain Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded and Cor-Bon makes the DPX Hunter with the 62 Grain Barnes TSX that would be a possible hunting choice. The Prvi 75gr HP is great for punching paper and probably self defense. However there have been some tests, check the ammuntion forum, that penitration wasnt the best. Dont think I'd use it for deer.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 5:37:05 AM EST
I would not use a BTHP or a Match bullet.

You will already be taking (unnecessary) risk by using a .223 - I would stick with a premium hunting bullet. Barnes is one of few that make them bigger than varmit size. I don't think Speer, Sierra, Hornady, or Nosler make a .224 thin skinned medium game bullet.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 7:36:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By bsf:
Originally Posted By anotherlefty:
No need for optics. Practice with irons or whatever you have on the gun now.
Shoot them in the neck with the heaviest bullet your rifle will handle.
If you have a 1/9 twist, the Prvi 75 grain match usually gives good results, but shoot some in your gun to see how it groups.
Most other 75 or 77 grain rounds will not perform very well in a 1/9.
If you have a 1/7 twist any heavy bullet should work well.

I do not agree w/ "neck shots". I have seen a lot of deer shot in the face/jaw or neck get away. Most people are better off sticking w/ traditional heart/lung vital area shot placement.


I second this. Shoot for the boiler room, or don't shoot at all. A .223 is a compromise as it is, IMO, and a neck shot will only increase chances the animal gets away badly wounded.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 7:39:12 AM EST
also, don't forget you'll need a 5 round mag.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:27:34 AM EST
Also make sure you are hunting above the "rifle line."
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:44:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
Also make sure you are hunting above the "rifle line."



And make sure you wear orange.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:44:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
Also make sure you are hunting above the "rifle line."



And make sure you wear orange.


Make sure you purchase a hunting license.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:45:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
Also make sure you are hunting above the "rifle line."



And make sure you wear orange.


Make sure you purchase a hunting license.


Make sure you're not on someone's private property without permission.

Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:46:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
Also make sure you are hunting above the "rifle line."



And make sure you wear orange.


Make sure you purchase a hunting license.


Make sure you're not on someone's private property without permission.



If you see a DNR officer, don't shoot at them.

Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:46:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By dougwg:
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
Also make sure you are hunting above the "rifle line."



And make sure you wear orange.


Make sure you purchase a hunting license.


Make sure you're not on someone's private property without permission.



If you see a DNR officer, don't shoot at them.



One last thing, please remember to breath.

Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:47:00 AM EST
make sure you're at least 400 ft from a building.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:48:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
make sure you're at least 400 ft from a building.


Or if you are within 400ft make sure you have permission from the land owner.

Link Posted: 6/8/2009 8:55:40 AM EST
I've seen hogs killed with the PRVI match ammo.
Did a fine job of it.
If it will penetrate a hog, it will penetrate a deer.
That said, I wouldn't use a 5.56/.223 on a whitetail.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 10:30:16 AM EST
My friend this last season shot a doe with a Win. Ballistic silver tip 55 gr. and dropped it there.
"I believe he shot it in the head"
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 10:57:14 AM EST
I shot my first deer up between Newberry and Paradise with a Colt HBAR shooting a 69HPBT with a headshot. It's the only centerfire rifle I had at the time. Woods were thick, so ranges never exceeded 75yds. The HBAR shot like a laser, so I was confident in shot placement.

That was many many moons ago though, and now that I'm older and [hopefully] wiser, I wouldn't go hunting for deer with a .223 again. Heck, if I got up there again, I'd just take my slug gun, but the whole point at the time was to get up above the shotgun line (and drink copious amounts of beer, ay).
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 1:31:53 PM EST
I haven't hunted in quite some time, but am under the impression that .223 is illegal to hunt deer with in MI, too small.

Things may have changed though, so double check.....
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 1:50:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By UZIBoy:
I haven't hunted in quite some time, but am under the impression that .223 is illegal to hunt deer with in MI, too small.

Things may have changed though, so double check.....


Not illegal.

All Firearm Deer Seasons-Rifle Zone (See page 9)
In the rifle zone, deer may be taken with handguns, rifles, bows
and arrows, shotguns and muzzleloading fi rearms including black
powder handguns. It is legal to hunt deer in the rifle zone with
any caliber of firearm except a .22 caliber or smaller rimfire (rifle
or handgun).
Crossbows are legal to use by a person 12 years of
age or older during the Nov. 15-30 firearm deer season. During the
firearm deer seasons, a firearm deer hunter may carry afield a bow
and arrow and firearm.
Exception: See Muzzleloading Deer Seasons for restrictions
during this season.
All Firearm Deer Seasons-Shotgun Zone (See page 9)
In the shotgun zone, all hunters afield from Nov. 15-30, and all
deer hunters in this zone during other deer seasons, must abide by
the following firearm restrictions or use a bow and arrow. Crossbows
are legal to use by a person 12 years of age or older during the Nov.
15-30 firearm deer season. Legal firearms are as follows:
􀁺 A shotgun may have a smooth or rifled barrel and may be of any
gauge.
􀁺 A muzzleloading rifle or black powder handgun must be loaded
with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder
substitute.
􀁺 A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35 caliber
or larger and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be
single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity
of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.
During the firearm deer seasons, a firearm deer hunter may carry
afield a bow and arrow and firearm.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 2:02:26 PM EST
thanks for all the info, like i said im thinking about it, i already have a 12ga mossberg that shoots the sabot slug and does the job just fine (have heads on the wall to prove it )

I'm lucky to be on private property but i would hate to wound a deer and not retrieve it. happened to me last year on a 7pt with my bow and i still get mad about it.

my barrel is a 1:9 and that seams to be a con...

we shall see
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 3:39:57 PM EST
6.8spc––––––––––––––––––- do it right or dont do it at all, nuf said!
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 4:21:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/8/2009 4:23:27 PM EST by cybersniper]
I have a 6.8 SPC build in the works as we speak. I really like the idea of a high cap standard size AR15 with enough punch to easily take medium to large game. Ammo and mags are easier to find. I wish the military would just go to this cal. Then we would really see the market take off. Cant wait to have mine done and use it this deer season.

That being said, I still think the 223 Barnes TSX put in the boiler room would easily kill and knock down a deer.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 4:27:08 PM EST
Is my 1:9 twist rate going to hurt me??

My shot will be around 75-100....out to 150, could be 200 but not likely
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 4:41:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/8/2009 4:44:20 PM EST by cybersniper]
Ive heard some guys say they can stabilize the 75gr Prvi in a 1:9. The distance is not as much of a problem as much as the round actually keyholing within a few yards of leaving the barrel. If you shoot some targets with it, you'll know right away. The 70gr Barnes is right on the edge of weight between definatly needing a 1:8 or 1:7. If you read the comments on Midwayusa there are shooters who have not had a problem. Load some up or pick up the Silver States and get some target time in.
Link Posted: 6/8/2009 5:28:57 PM EST
I took a buck last year with my AR. The shot was only about 50 yards, broadside. I took out both lungs, and the deer ran about 50 yards, if that far. I was using 55gr FMJ, I think it was Q3131A to be exact, and it was with a 14.5" barrel. I went with FMJ due to the experiences of a friend that has shot many deer over the past 5 years with his AR.

This was my first time hunting with the AR, and honestly I felt like I was making a huge mistake not carrying the 30-06. The area I hunted last year would only allow for a 100 yard shot, max, but it didn't feel right carry such a small cartridge. I don't know if I'll deer hunt with the AR again or not. I like the light weight, short rifle for wandering through the woods, I'm just not confident with the .223 cartridge for deer.
Link Posted: 6/9/2009 8:01:33 AM EST
I wouldn't do it as I'd be afraid that the shot might not have the proper placement and would wound instead of kill, so you might want to do what I did –– buy a 6.8 upper for about $500 and then use that.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:15:48 AM EST
better success with the 6.8 i take it?
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:50:31 AM EST
6.8SPC or 6.5 Grendel. Can't go wrong with either. My next upper will be a Grendel.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:09:48 AM EST
All my friend uses is his AR and he won't take a shot unless it's a neck shot. They take 2 steps and drop and when you skin them their neck looks like jelly where they were hit. He does practice year round and doesn't pull his rifle out 2 weeks before deer season opens.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:33:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By coltsonly:
All my friend uses is his AR and he won't take a shot unless it's a neck shot. They take 2 steps and drop and when you skin them their neck looks like jelly where they were hit. He does practice year round and doesn't pull his rifle out 2 weeks before deer season opens.


The .223 will kill anything on the planet, but there are a lot of unpredictable things that happen when hunting animals so it's usually better to go bigger. I've heard of .223's blasting through both sides and not leaving any blood trail, hitting a rib and disintegrating on the outside, etc.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:56:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 3:57:50 PM EST by Mak]
Winchester 64gr Power Point is a Soft point round winchester recommends for deer.

I've got a bunch of boxes of Federal Gold Medal Match BTHP, Norma 69gr Match BTHP and some Black Hills 75 gr match ammo.

.223 is legal for deer in Michigan as posted above.

To those that don't think you can kill a deer quickly with a .223 they need to check out member -x-'s post here and on other site's. He hunts his family's property every year in Georgia and has been using an AK-74 for several years shooting 5.45x39. That is about a .21 caliber round. I believe he states the deer drop. Shot placement.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:40:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 6:52:31 PM EST by Gabriel11808]
Originally Posted By bsf:
Originally Posted By anotherlefty:
No need for optics. Practice with irons or whatever you have on the gun now.
Shoot them in the neck with the heaviest bullet your rifle will handle.
If you have a 1/9 twist, the Prvi 75 grain match usually gives good results, but shoot some in your gun to see how it groups.
Most other 75 or 77 grain rounds will not perform very well in a 1/9.
If you have a 1/7 twist any heavy bullet should work well.

I do not agree w/ "neck shots". I have seen a lot of deer shot in the face/jaw or neck get away. Most people are better off sticking w/ traditional heart/lung vital area shot placement.


+1
Shooting in the neck is a bad idea. Go for the vitals.

ETA: I have thought about hunting whitetail with my AR as well. I sold my 30-06 (big mistake) and now have no deer rifle. I'm worried it might be to small a round. My brother no longer hunts, so I can borrow his .270. I might bag my first deer of the season with the .270 and then switch to the AR as an expieriment. Hope I don't regret it.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 8:45:22 AM EST
For all the "don't shoot in the neck" posts there is no need to keep them going, I go for vitals not the "texas kill shot"

Anyways, to the last post that is a good idea, i'll get one in the bag with my 270 then experiment....that is unless i get 2 with my bow
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