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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/24/2006 7:14:28 PM EDT
Hoophole for getting a legal NFA (AOW or DD only) in Hawaii; without LEO sig. and Corp Fees.
Other NFA iems are specificlly outlawed in Hawaii.
Although you will need to get a lawyer to write the Trust and the Prosecutor will take you to Court.
But hey its only $ .. Here a thought to ponder upon......
Bob in FL is a FFL/SOT and a FL Bar attorney.

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"BATF will accept any "legal entity" recognized as such by your state of residence. Some trusts do qualify; others do not. As far as "living" trusts, "revokable" trusts and "irrevokable" trusts, you need to consult an attorney to make sure they are state-recognized. In general, this means that BATF can contact the Florida State Department and find (a) a record of its existence, and (b) verification that it is current and meets all state guidelines as a viable legal entity. "


From BOB,
A trust is absolutely a viable means of taking title to NFA items. In Florida a trust is not registered with the state and there is no annual fee paid to the state (like a corporation @ $150/year). It is not true that the ATF has to be able to call the state to verify the existence of the trust. All that is required is that it be a legal entity and capable under law of holding title to property to be transferred to it. I am an estate planning attorney and an FFL/SOT in Davie and have done many transfers to trusts with no problems. People use trusts to hold title to their homes, investment property, cars, boats, planes, securities, etc. The NFA items are simply another type of personal property..................................................As for NFA particualar language, yes I do put certain language into the NFA trusts I prepare specifically noting the provisions contained in the regulations dealing with Trusts and with NFA items in particular. Just seems to make it simpler for the ATF/NFA examiners to understand. I have done transfers (I am an 07/02 FFL/SOT) for individuals who used their previously established trust (i.e. one drafted for general estate planning purposes) that went through with no problem and I have also had some come through where I had to talk the examiner through the transfer because they had some problem with or didn't understand the documents. Generally for the reasons stated above, I feel it is more prudent to have a trust geared towards NFA prepared by a licensed attorney (be it me or someone else). I understand some like to go it on their own either out of curiosity or to save a few bucks. But I usually tell my clients when asked that if the small cost of preparing the trust properly to begin with is a problem, then perhaps NFA is not the Hobby for them.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:21:43 AM EDT
Wow. I have to give you guys credit for finding all the "gray areas" of HI gun ownership lately. This NFA one is the most tempting so far. I swear you guys are going to get me in trouble.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:03:03 AM EDT
Here's what I've been told.
3 simple steps:

1. Establish the Trust or Corp ( no LEO sign off ).
2. Find a FFL
3. Buy a Non Traditional gun (AOW ie: pen, cane gun. These USUALLY go thru local By-Laws); get the paperwork and fingerprints to BATF. This is a $5 AOW Tranfer Tax not the $200 AOW Man'fc Tax. NFA tranfers have been fast lately (Ive seen 2 weeks).

Next, Buy or build an "evil " AOW and go thru step 1-3. If they refuse to register it, Take the State to court "double standards on same type of firearm".

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:46:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 8:07:58 AM EDT by SUKA]
A "pengun" is actually classified as a "Pistol" under HRS 134-1 and is a "single shot" not semiautomatic.
These should not be a problem registering it at HPD.

HRS134-1:
"Pistol" or "revolver" means any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition or any noxious gas.

.

Since the "AOW pengun" is reg'd as a Pistol in HPD as well as in the NFA registry.
If anyone can see were this is going ... next reg'd a Pistol with a Foregrip (AOW); Most of these will go thru also since its just a regular Pistol with a foregrip mounted not horizontal with the bore...

Any other type of AOW that resembles an "evil " weapon can now be register with the same concept such as an UZI or SAW which in turn is under definition is a "assualt pistol" in Hawaii but under NFA which is not a Title 1 gun. Now, they will conficate that NFA item and the court case begins......This is the time to get a GOOD Lawyer arguing the double standards on the same type of firearm.

Edited;\
Since the Trust or Corp is an "entity" the NFA are under the "entity" not you as an officer of the corp or Benifactor of the Trust. We need to see if the Officer or Benifactor are Liable for Criminal prosecution under Hawaii Law.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:13:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 11:14:17 AM EDT by SUKA]
FYI
When making an AOW it has a $200 manufacture Tax and paperwork. The reciever or gun can never have had a stock; EVER.
A $5 Tax only applies to Transfers of already made guns.

Putting a foreGRIP (not to be mistaken for a forward handguard) on a Pistol is "making a new AOW".
$200 Tax.
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