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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 4/10/2006 8:51:31 AM EDT
Can anyone give me more information on full auto in Wisconsin?

SBR, SBS, and Silencers all state that they are legal if "lawfully possessed under federal law, or any firearm that could have been lawfully registered at the time of the enactment of the national firearms act of 1968."

however, MG's state "No person may sell, possess, use or transport any machine gun or other full automatic firearm. Exceptions include: the possession of a machine gun for scientific purpose; the possession of a machine gun not usable as a weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament or keepsake; or the possession of a machine gun other than one adapted to use pistol cartridges for a purpose manifestly not aggressive or offensive; or any person duly authorized by the chief of police of any city or the sheriff of any county may sell, possess, use, or transport a machine gun."

I am in the process of having an M10/45 transferred to me in ND. I am stationed there, but would liek to bring my toy home to WI to play. I coudl always submit the 53.2020 and see what ATF says. But i'd rather i have my facts straight ahead of time. As per the law listed above, i do not beleive it is legal. however, I've heard many people own similar weapons in Wisconsin. Is "adapted" meaning not originally designed in a pistol caliber?

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:09:06 AM EDT
When did you get back?

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:51:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 9:52:51 AM EDT by FMD]
The way I see it, you answered your own question.

Let's break this down (sorry NAM, but some of the folks here in WI need a lesson in leagalese). Standard disclaimer (IANAL, but I did stay at a Holiday In Express one time) applies.


Originally Posted By NAM:
"No person may sell, possess, use or transport any machine gun or other full automatic firearm. Exceptions include: the possession of a machine gun for scientific purpose; the possession of a machine gun not usable as a weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament or keepsake; or



Here's the interesting part:


the possession of a machine gun other than


In plain English: Exceptions include the possession a machine gun except for...


one adapted to use


...a machine gun that has been modified in some way to utilize...


pistol cartridges


...pistol caliber ammunition...


for a purpose manifestly


...for a reason easily understood or recognized as...


not aggressive or offensive;


...collecting relics and curios, paintball games, hunting, or other recreational activites that are not intended to harm another human.


or any person duly authorized by the chief of police of any city or the sheriff of any county may sell, possess, use, or transport a machine gun."


Leaving out the actual vs. constructive possesion argument; the way I read the statute, the only MG prohibited from posession in WI would be a regular MG of rifle caliber, adapted for pistol caliber, AND used exclusively for sumunition training, etc: i.e. "for a purpose manifestly not aggressive or offensive".

The one blanket exception given by the statute allows even those to be posessed with a CLEO signoff.

It would be nice if we had the same clarification that we do for SBRs and SBSs, but the legislature in their infiniate wisdom saw fit to word it the way they did.

Bottom line: If you've got a Form 4 with your personal name (rather than a corp transfer), then you're golden as you had to get authorization from the Cheif of Police of somewhere. Corp posession would have to be limited to everything BUT something like a 9mm AR used for paintball. Submit the 53.2020 and have some fun at home.

Welcome back, and let me know when you're in town. I owe you a beer, and will even bring some 45 for the MAC.

Edit: Damn Washingtonians can't tell the difference between the WA and WI HTF.

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:24:46 AM EDT
I will have an approved form 4. Problem is, it's signed by the Sheriff of Ward County, ND.

so that county is not one in Wisconsin. However, the letter of the law does not specifically state that it has to be a chief or sheriff from Wisconsin.

I kind of thought along the same lines as you did FMD, but wanted to make sure i was on the right page.

got back from Baghdad in October. Looks like i might be taking my third trip over that way alot sooner than i had planned.

Definitly plan on coming home sometime this summer, for maybe a week or so. As soon as the M10/45 and possibly a Viper are in my hands. I've also got the 9mm kit for it, and am planning on pickign up a subcal .22 LR kit for it.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 11:29:59 AM EDT
I'm still hoping to get behind that ferret (and maybe talk you out of it).

Glad you're back, and stay safe if you go galavanting again.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 12:14:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:
I'm still hoping to get behind that ferret (and maybe talk you out of it).

Glad you're back, and stay safe if you go galavanting again.



don't let me forget it. took a couple coworkers out shooting that bugger yesterday. They had a Blast. That's one reason i like ND.... nice and flat. Perfect for the .50. now if only i coudl find a nice farmer around here that'd let me take the ferret to some of them prarie dogs. heheh....
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:04:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
Can anyone give me more information on full auto in Wisconsin?

SBR, SBS, and Silencers all state that they are legal if "lawfully possessed under federal law, or any firearm that could have been lawfully registered at the time of the enactment of the national firearms act of 1968."

however, MG's state "No person may sell, possess, use or transport any machine gun or other full automatic firearm. Exceptions include: the possession of a machine gun for scientific purpose; the possession of a machine gun not usable as a weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament or keepsake; or the possession of a machine gun other than one adapted to use pistol cartridges for a purpose manifestly not aggressive or offensive; or any person duly authorized by the chief of police of any city or the sheriff of any county may sell, possess, use, or transport a machine gun."


I am in the process of having an M10/45 transferred to me in ND. I am stationed there, but would liek to bring my toy home to WI to play. I coudl always submit the 53.2020 and see what ATF says. But i'd rather i have my facts straight ahead of time. As per the law listed above, i do not beleive it is legal. however, I've heard many people own similar weapons in Wisconsin. Is "adapted" meaning not originally designed in a pistol caliber?



Just do it...if you are planning on bringing it to WI, to visit use the federal form to notify the BATF you are transporting it to WI. Never has anyone in WI been prosecuted for the lawful ownership or discharge of a NFA weapon. Be sure to check the local rules for shooting, could be posted against thier firing. If you are planning on living in WI, use the federal form to notify the address change. You will need to check local ordnances on ownership, but you can have the weapon. The law you have stated for the other NFA, such as SBR etc..., has the "OK" but under fully automatic it is missing. True.....but.....I will stop here due to possible unwanted listeners.

Other people have done the same as you are inquiring about.

Just do it, the ATF will approve it, and that is all you need.

The "authorized" term needs to be defined more.....there is a difference between "authorized" and the CLEO signing off on the form 4 or even the NFA license.
The CLEO does a background check and checks on local ordnances, no more.

WI is one of the states with the highest number of NFA weapons.

As for the law you have quoted, it is completely confusing and written to be that way. It does not make sense. The writers were either complete idiots or brilliant, perhaps in a cunning way--good or bad- no one knows what it means, not even a state prosecutor who I have discussed it with....let it go without thought, and do what you want to do, many of us have and will continue to do....

Henry CL3 WI 28years


Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:57:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MGHenry:


I'm a Wisconsin Resident. but i'm in the Air Force stationed in ND. I knew they were legal, but was looking for the actual law, just to be sure. When it's my butt on the line, i like to be extra safe. But i am fully satified that is is legal, and i will be bringing my toys with me. Local ordinances shouldn't be a problem with the state preemtion law. Of course, i won't be dancing in the streets naked with my MG.

Born and raised in Wisconsin, and will return someday. Hoepfully i'll be bringing my CCW rights with me. Let's jsut hope chicago stops migrating to to the north.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:03:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:

Originally Posted By MGHenry:


I'm a Wisconsin Resident. but i'm in the Air Force stationed in ND. I knew they were legal, but was looking for the actual law, just to be sure. When it's my butt on the line, i like to be extra safe. But i am fully satified that is is legal, and i will be bringing my toys with me. Local ordinances shouldn't be a problem with the state preemtion law. Of course, i won't be dancing in the streets naked with my MG.

Born and raised in Wisconsin, and will return someday. Hoepfully i'll be bringing my CCW rights with me. Let's jsut hope chicago stops migrating to to the north.



Sounds great, the ATF laws are what has been followed for ever in WI. We must remove doyle, he is actively, and has been trying for two years + to out law the NFA and also complete gun ownership. CCW is not enacted and out of state permits are also not honored.
Remove doyle, keep our representative seats and add supporters if possible, we will have CCW in less than a year. 48 states now have a provision for CCW, IL and WI are not in tune with our inherent rights.

Henry
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:22:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:

however, MG's state "No person may sell, possess, use or transport any machine gun or other full automatic firearm. Exceptions include: the possession of a machine gun for scientific purpose; the possession of a machine gun not usable as a weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament or keepsake; or the possession of a machine gun other than one adapted to use pistol cartridges for a purpose manifestly not aggressive or offensive; or any person duly authorized by the chief of police of any city or the sheriff of any county may sell, possess, use, or transport a machine gun."




this intruiges me greatly. can anyone give me a bit more clarification as to what a scientific purpose might be?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:37:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pol_pot_47:

this intruiges me greatly. can anyone give me a bit more clarification as to what a scientific purpose might be?



Research and development. Designing new toys.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:14:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:

Originally Posted By pol_pot_47:

this intruiges me greatly. can anyone give me a bit more clarification as to what a scientific purpose might be?



Research and development. Designing new toys.



oooooooooo sounds like fun. but im guessing youve gotta be a class II manufacturer or whatever it is to do any of that.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:22:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pol_pot_47:

Originally Posted By NAM:

Originally Posted By pol_pot_47:

this intruiges me greatly. can anyone give me a bit more clarification as to what a scientific purpose might be?



Research and development. Designing new toys.



oooooooooo sounds like fun. but im guessing youve gotta be a class II manufacturer or whatever it is to do any of that.




You sir are correct.
yet another way that the 86 ban has impacted the development of samll arms in America. Before that you could send in a form 1 and once approved build yer prototype, nopw you got to jump through all the hoops and pay a bunch of money for a cII license to manufacture.
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