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Posted: 4/11/2008 7:23:14 AM EDT
I was told it is illegal in Iowa to carry full mags in your vehicle with your gun, any truth behind this? My mag pouches are always full with full magazines with my truck gun.
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 7:38:54 AM EDT
Not legal.
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 7:39:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By teggy1:
Not legal.


What he said.
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 7:46:57 AM EDT
Aww come on. How about if the upper is removed? Thats a pain in the butt going to the range and loading mags. Thats part of my trip to the range, going home cleaning my gun and reloading mags.
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 7:48:41 AM EDT
What they said.
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 8:19:23 AM EDT
Thanks though thats all I needed. I guess I will have to unload(all of them at home stay loaded) and reload after a 5 mile trip to the range.
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 9:08:54 AM EDT
In Iowa a loaded magazine is considered a loaded firearm
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 9:18:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2008 9:19:07 AM EDT by blackta6]
If you have a CCW permit, abiding by all of your dictators' (Sheriff) rules and restrictions, you should be legal to carry the loaded mags.
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 11:15:10 AM EDT
I'm LEO in Iowa and here's the code

483A.36  Manner of conveyance.
No person, except as permitted by law, shall have or carry a gun in or on a vehicle on a public highway, unless the gun is taken down or totally contained in a securely fastened case, and its barrels and magazines are unloaded.


HD03King
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 1:38:47 PM EDT
I really think this is a case where the law is not very well written. I think the intent was that fixed magazine needs to be unloaded.  Why would it be in the same sentance with the barrels?  I really think this came from guys leaving the tube of the shotgun loaded with an empty chamber in a case trying to get the jump on game.  

If I knew how to get the word "fixed" added to this language I would work night and day to get it changed.
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 9:27:33 PM EDT
iowa gun laws are tacked at the top of the forum.  please feel free to browse through them and get the answers you'd like.  if you're not sure, that is a good place to start...

while i agree the clear intention was directed towards fixed magazines the case has been made either way over the years without contention apparently.  thus, the currenct interpretation is "no ammo in any mag at any time" unless you're going CCW...  although it is foolish, it is the way it is upheld and understood by most currently...
Link Posted: 4/12/2008 5:41:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2008 6:02:43 PM EDT by KwaiChangCaine]
I agree and disagree with the opinions expressed every time this topic comes up.  The one thing I'm certain about is that the law is cloudy, and it would take a court case or a re-write to fix it.  Unfortunately, most LEO believe the "hunting" law covers your trip to the range when you've preloaded mags to save time.

The "magazine law" comes from DNR law, which is what Chapter 483A is:

"CHAPTER 483A FISHING AND HUNTING LICENSES, CONTRABAND, AND GUNS".

They make sense if you look at them like they were intended.  You can't drive around road hunting with loaded mags.  Even though they are in the "hunting and fishing section"  they are still Iowa laws, and DNR officers are LEO with the same powers as your local cop.

The "real" Iowa law dealing with weapons is:

"CHAPTER 724 WEAPONS".

I believe it says nothing about loaded magazines.

Some states, like Florida for example have made laws expressly forbidding loaded mags.  Mostly created because of criminals and illegal weapons, not hunting.

Iowa does not have a weapons law restricting loaded mags, we have a hunting law restricting loaded mags in certain circumstances.  I believe one could win in court based on that, but I wouldn't want to try.

I have an Iowa Permit to Carry Weapons, issued under Chapter 724, which certainly allows me to carry all sorts of loaded mags in my vehicle.  It also certainly would not prevent me from being prosecuted under the Chapter 483A law if I had a hunting gun with a loaded mag.  Proof and clarification of intent to me, for both the law and the citizen . . .

Also, I think we should all just carry Garands as a truck gun.  Then only our CLIPS would be loaded, not our MAGAZINES!!!  

ETA:If you can't get a Permit to Carry, and you are still worried about the laws, just drive to the range with empty mags.  Then sit in the parking lot and load the mags in your car before going in for your hour of range time.
Link Posted: 4/12/2008 5:59:36 PM EDT
too true.  couldn't agree more.  frankly most LE don't know the code that well.  the vast majority know the basic traffic citations in the code, but they aren't lawyers.  even the lawyers aren't in the know half the time or they wouldn't bill me $300 per hour to look shit up...  i don't know the code that well either.  i can tell you who is likely to lose the arguement during a traffic stop if something is in doubt though...



we need some changes made to some of this stuff, but frankly this rates as such a low priority when compared to taking away personal choices and freedoms like they have so proudly done thus far during the legislative session, that it'll take a fully republican legislature and gov. to do anything.  even then they can't be trusted.  
Link Posted: 4/12/2008 6:01:39 PM EDT
I agree with that 100% septic!
Link Posted: 4/12/2008 10:53:13 PM EDT
I guess i should unload all those AR mags in my mag pouches
Link Posted: 4/13/2008 5:48:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blackta6:
If you have a CCW permit, abiding by all of your dictators' (Sheriff) rules and restrictions, you should be legal to carry the loaded mags.


Not realy true you.  Can only carry load mags for the gun that you have qualified with to get your CCW permit,
So in other words if you qualify with Glock 17 as your CCW weapon you can not have loaded AR-15 mags or any other mags for any other gun for that matter.

I personly don't have a problem with loaded mags as long as they are stored in a different compartment than the gun  ( ie: gun in trunk and mags in back seat in a bag or ammo can )

Just my $.02

E3
Link Posted: 4/13/2008 5:53:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EARRNHARDT3:

Originally Posted By blackta6:
If you have a CCW permit, abiding by all of your dictators' (Sheriff) rules and restrictions, you should be legal to carry the loaded mags.


Not realy true you.  Can only carry load mags for the gun that you have qualified with to get your CCW permit,
So in other words if you qualify with Glock 17 as your CCW weapon you can not have loaded AR-15 mags or any other mags for any other gun for that matter.

I personly don't have a problem with loaded mags as long as they are stored in a different compartment than the gun  ( ie: gun in trunk and mags in back seat in a bag or ammo can )

Just my $.02

E3


What county is that in?  Iowa law has no such restriction, and my Polk County issued permit certainly doesn't.
Link Posted: 4/13/2008 7:01:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EARRNHARDT3:

Originally Posted By blackta6:
If you have a CCW permit, abiding by all of your dictators' (Sheriff) rules and restrictions, you should be legal to carry the loaded mags.


Not realy true you.  Can only carry load mags for the gun that you have qualified with to get your CCW permit,
So in other words if you qualify with Glock 17 as your CCW weapon you can not have loaded AR-15 mags or any other mags for any other gun for that matter.


I personly don't have a problem with loaded mags as long as they are stored in a different compartment than the gun  ( ie: gun in trunk and mags in back seat in a bag or ammo can )

Just my $.02

E3




i'm going to throw the bullshit flag out on that one...  show me in the code where it says that.  if i'm wrong i'll say i'm wrong.  however, in reading through this stuff front to back i don't remember anything like that.  if you could point it out, i'd be much appreciative.

-michael
Link Posted: 4/13/2008 8:10:28 AM EDT
Well let me do  some looking but that is what was told to us in our CCW class.
Maybe that is an CCW rule in just our county.
But now that you guys say that there is no way of knowing what gun you have qualified with to LEO's

Let me do some checking with our CCW guy and i will get back to you.

And if iam wrong i will take the beating

E3
Link Posted: 4/13/2008 2:18:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2008 8:21:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hd03king:
I'm LEO in Iowa and here's the code

483A.36  Manner of conveyance.
No person, except as permitted by law, shall have or carry a gun in or on a vehicle on a public highway, unless the gun is taken down or totally contained in a securely fastened case, and its barrels and magazines are unloaded.


HD03King


Holy cow!  I missed that one!  Does anyone know if Illinois law (I'm almost positive it is) is the same????  Our primary range is the Milan Rifle Club (in Milan, Illinois - across the river from the QC).
Link Posted: 4/13/2008 8:32:22 PM EDT
Has anyone ever been charged for having a loaded magazine in their vehicle?
Link Posted: 4/13/2008 8:55:50 PM EDT
im glad this subject has came up, but this winter when i was doing alot of coyote hunting and such (first year to use an AR) and i was unsure if i could have my mags loaded or not, and the regs are a little unclear, so i called the iowa dnr office in desmoines, and talked to a very nice gentleman that i cannot remember the name of but anyway i explained to him what type of rifle i had and what my concern was and he said if i have my rifle unloaded in a secure case it would be ok to have a loaded mag so long as its not in the case with the rifle, ie put it in the back seat or anwhere outside of the case or away from it, he also said it was somewhat of the officers descresion if a vehicle stop was issued, he pretty much told me to be smart about it and not abuse it by having 20 30 rnd mags loaded in the gun case ready to do but having 1 or 2 mags loaded you are probably going to get away with it. im still abit iffy on the subject though, i guess i just use my head about it. i wish i was 110% sure on the situation though.

adam
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 9:16:20 AM EDT
I will shed what light I can on this from my personal experience.  I am a LEO in Iowa.  First of all, I can say that most local police are not going to know these laws, as stated above, unless they are a gun buff like me.

With that said, a DNR Officer is very likely to know these laws well.

My personal opinion, and my interpretation of the law, like it was said in the previous post is that your rifle needs to be "secured" in a case.  Secured meaning if it has a zipper it is zipped COMPLETELY.  Latches latched.  You get the picture.

Loaded magazines cannot be transported inside the case with the rifle.  They can be transported outside the case loaded.  I personally transport my rifle unloaded and secured in a case.  I then have a range bag full of my loaded magazines.

Now ... we get to this "Officer's interpretation".  Remember than anything can be taken "literally" if an Officer knows this code THAT well.  However, if it is charged the court runs on the premise of what a REASONABLE person would believe.

If you are a jerk to the officer ... he may take this code "literally".  I personally have never heard of a single person ever being charged for having a loaded magazine in their vehicle if it was not transported in the case with the rifle.

In fact, if you really take this code literally it would be illegal to have a loaded magazine in your vehicle even if there was no firearm!  Don't get too wrapped around the axle on all of this.  Common sense prevails.

This code was intended to mean internal magazines of a firearm.  Example, empty chamber on a shotgun but rounds in the internal, tubular magazine.  Same goes for something like a lever or bolt action rifle.

Good shooting to all!  
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 1:54:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 11BInfantry:
My personal opinion, and my interpretation of the law, like it was said in the previous post is that your rifle needs to be "secured" in a case.  Secured meaning if it has a zipper it is zipped COMPLETELY.  Latches latched.  You get the picture.

Loaded magazines cannot be transported inside the case with the rifle.  They can be transported outside the case loaded.  I personally transport my rifle unloaded and secured in a case.  I then have a range bag full of my loaded magazines.



Good info. Thanks 11B.

But my question is this, why were you stopped and why did the officer feel it was necessary to search your vehicle?  If all that is happening, there are more serious issues at play than rather you have a loaded magazine in the vehicle.
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 1:54:22 PM EDT
glad some of you guys weighed in that are LE.  i think the reason that there is any boo boo about this is the incident earlier this year at the Ames Ikes.

i'm not certain of the circumstance and since i wasn't there i can't write anything here with any degree of certainty.  however, it was claimed that folks were driving into the range for an IDPA shoot and they were being stopped and checked.  supposedly those folks that had a pistol all tucked away in one case and their range bag with loaded mags in another case were cited.  the code given for the citation was the DNR/hunting code above.  

again, i can't verify it, but i know whatever the case was it was a big stink made for nothing.  most all the folks attending the IDPA are not only law abiding, but responsible.  why on God's green earth would you opt to single out some obscure code to mess with the boys?  i'm guessing one of two things could be possible...  either they pissed one of the locals or local LE off or there is more to the story.

either way, it sounds foolish to me.

i've heard the stink about that day quite a bit in many different circles from all over the state.  amazing how that kind of BS travels isn't it?

Link Posted: 4/14/2008 2:00:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2008 2:02:18 PM EDT by KClapp]
I'm not a lawyer, but what reason was used to search the vehicles?  I thought there had to be a valid reason to search a vehicle (i.e. probable cause).  

Any government official using their authority to extract a vendetta needs to be removed promptly.  That is totally unprofessional and unethical (and I'm guessing illegal).
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 2:01:59 PM EDT
You both make good points.  As far as the reason for the traffic stop ... there could be a lot of things at play.  Perhaps they are routine drug interdiction type stops.  Perhaps they broke a traffic law.  In any case, if they have reasonable articulable suspicion or probably cause for a traffic stop they can conduct it.  Once the vehicle is stopped the Officer can always ask to search the vehicle.

If the owner or driver consents, fair game.  If the owner or driver refuses and they have probable cause to search the vehicle they can.  If, in fact, they have probable cause to search the vehicle then there is more going on than just looking for some loaded magazines.

I am not familiar with the case you guys are talking about so there is no way for me to be able to speak with any certainty on what exactly the circumstances were.  It is, however, the first time I have heard of someone writing a citation for that.

Does anyone know what happened in court or if the cited individual went to court for it?  I would be interested to hear what a judge had to say if the did indeed appear.  Like any profession there are people out there who make LEO's look bad.  On the other hand, maybe there was more to the story that none of us know about.

Good topic and discussion to all.  
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 6:47:19 PM EDT
don't know what happened with it.  maybe some of the guys that were up there can post...
Link Posted: 4/14/2008 8:45:05 PM EDT
My understanding was that if i have my rifle in a secure container and the mags in another secure container then i'm ok.

I always have all of my ammo along with 3-4 loaded mags in a 50cal can in the trunk and my rifle unloaded and upper and lower detached in the back seat in a case.

Is this ok?
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 10:24:20 AM EDT
Bionic Sniper

As far as the transportation of your firearm ... absolutely legal.  The big contention in this discussion is the loaded magazines.

If an Officer chooses to know this code THAT well and interprets it literally then your loaded magazines would be illegal.  A judge may see differently but you would obviously have to appear in court to determine that.  In the realm of all things ... I personally would not bother anyone regarding the loaded magazines.

Your call on them but I still transport loaded magazines myself and don't intend on stopping anytime in the future.  LEO or not I wouldn't change my mind.  I transport my rifle in a secured case.  My magazines are transported inside a separate, secure range bag.

Clear as mud right?  
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:54:21 AM EDT
Can a traffic cop enforce DNR rules and regulations?
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:59:56 AM EDT
Any Certified Peace Officer can enforce any State law.  It does not matter what section of the Iowa State Code it is under.  A DNR Officer has the full legal authority to enforce any law that any City Officer, Deputy Sheriff, or the State Police can enforce and vice versa.

They are all Certified Peace Officers who are sworn to uphold the law, any law, that is passed by the State.  A lot of people have the common misconception that a City Officer cannot enforce DOT regulations on a Commercial truck, etc.  The fact of the matter is that they can and, in fact, have sworn to uphold all laws.

Hope this answers your questions sufficiently.  
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:10:29 PM EDT
Ok, I havent read every post to its entirety, but does the CCW allow you to have the loaded AR mags, no questions asked as long as your rifle is cased?  Does the CCW allow you to have your rifle uncased?  

Or, how far does the CCW get you in terms of having a long gun "ready to go"?

I like that in MO I can have an AR chambered ready to go uncased if I like.  I don't go by that practice, but I like the face that if SHTF I can legally set it next to me on the seat chambered and ready to go.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 10:45:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2008 10:46:54 PM EDT by blackta6]

Originally Posted By DernHumpus:
Ok, I havent read every post to its entirety, but does the CCW allow you to have the loaded AR mags, no questions asked as long as your rifle is cased?  Does the CCW allow you to have your rifle uncased?  

Or, how far does the CCW get you in terms of having a long gun "ready to go"?

I like that in MO I can have an AR chambered ready to go uncased if I like.  I don't go by that practice, but I like the face that if SHTF I can legally set it next to me on the seat chambered and ready to go.


That is one of those "grey" areas in our CCW laws. We have 99 different rules and instructors (99 Counties). Unless it was specifically listed as a restriction it would be hard to say the legality of a round chambered in a rifle. I would say that most likely a Co. Att. would prosocute. Based on the legal advice of do not carry anything with a larger caliber than what a person qualified with to obtain the CCW permit.

The newest and scariest "problem" is reason for issuance being a restriction. There is now a case where a man was convicted of carring a loaded conceled weapon but was not engaged in any of the activities he listed as a reason for obtaining the permit.

Here is a little factoid for you, a CCW permit allows any holder to carry conceled any knife. Shocking isn't it! One sheriff already figured this out, and took corrective action.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 4:03:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DernHumpus:
Ok, I havent read every post to its entirety, but does the CCW allow you to have the loaded AR mags, no questions asked as long as your rifle is cased?  Does the CCW allow you to have your rifle uncased?  

Or, how far does the CCW get you in terms of having a long gun "ready to go"?

I like that in MO I can have an AR chambered ready to go uncased if I like.  I don't go by that practice, but I like the face that if SHTF I can legally set it next to me on the seat chambered and ready to go.


i've heard it said by instructors that having a long gun or something else "ready to go" is not what the CCW is meant for...  that said, i can't find anything to the contrary in the code as of yet.

however, the average dude is going to have a hard time explaining to a judge that the bushmaster laying the passenger seat was his/her CCW that day.  some things are gray, but that is a hell of a stretch.

if you're asking if the CCW issuance grants you the ability to run with long guns or any guns "cocked and locked" in iowa while you drive down the road?  the answer isn't clear.  i'm of the firm opinion that is a fight you won't win if it ends up in court though...

 
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 6:24:12 AM EDT
Damn I love Missouri.  Iowa is going the way of IL
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 7:37:50 PM EDT

Howdy,
It seems to me that unless you have that rifle CONCEALED then you would be in violation.As in CONCEALED carry law,please correct me if the obvious isnt correct.dorson
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 3:51:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dorson:
Howdy,
It seems to me that unless you have that rifle CONCEALED then you would be in violation.As in CONCEALED carry law,please correct me if the obvious isnt correct.
dorson


more or less...  if you're carry rig is digging into your back as you drive down the road you can certainly pull it out and move it.  the thing is you're supposed to move it to another concealed place.  under the seat, the glove box, etc.  none of which are a very good place IMO, but you can do it temporarily.  to flop out your glock 23 on the dashboard is an all around bad idea.  besides, the moment your "concealed" carry weapon becomes unconcealed you're in violation of the code anyway...

that is the way i understand it to the best of my knowledge.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 5:18:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2008 5:41:45 AM EDT by KwaiChangCaine]
The law says "concealed or not", but not that it has to be concealed.  I have a Permit to Carry Weapons.  I believe Iowa law doesn't really address open carry or concealed carry, it just talks about carrying weapons.

It is commonly understood that you will keep your weapons concealed though, unless you want to be charged with disturbing the peace.

What do you all think?  Another cloudy area?


ETA:  On the rifle topic... I have a Gunslinger pack and can fit my AR carbine in it fully concealed.  I am confident that my carry permit with no restrictions is all I need to walk around with that and as many loaded mags as I want.  Would a LEO encounter be short and sweet, probably not.  Then again though, I wouldn't be doing anything to attract police attention anyway.

Edited again...
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:08:07 PM EDT
pretty far from practical, but legal...  if there is a single person in the entire state that opts so conceal an AR routinely while walking main street, i'd be throwing down the bullshit flag, but you never know...
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:43:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
pretty far from practical, but legal...  if there is a single person in the entire state that opts so conceal an AR routinely while walking main street, i'd be throwing down the bullshit flag, but you never know...


You won't see me doing it unless the SHTF!

I also think that if it got back to the Sheriff that someone was concealing an AR with a bunch of full mags, he just might want to revoke that carry permit.  
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 3:21:57 PM EDT
Well ,
Simply put,if someone in the general public can see you are carrying a gun,pistol ,rifle,whatever.....a simple phone call informing local authorities about the matter will bring you countless headaches ,PERMIT OR NOT.That is why it is called a concealed weapons permit,simply pointing out the obvious.
dorson
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 7:31:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2008 7:53:54 AM EDT by yammerschooner]
Training Specialists rents guns to those who don't currently have them for the weapons permit, so I doubt what a person qualified with matters.

Some days it is hot and a guy might feel like a j frame in 38 spl.  When winter rolls around a 45 might be a more appealing option.  I don't know about you all, but I know at least one person who thinks gun choice should be centered around ones outfit.  (I heard this from Ozzy, who I am beginning to believe is one of those metrosexuals.)

The last permit I saw said "Iowa Permit to Carry Weapons" as well.  As I examined it, I noticed nothing about it being concealed.  That said, if I was to carry a weapon, I doubt I would want to deal with the crap it would generate from onlookers, and I am sure I would find myself in the clink for brandishing if it wasn't concealed.


ETA: Just found out the following when trying to subscribe to this thread:

"You have 71 active subscriptions and a limit of 25 total subscriptions"


Bummer.  Gonna have to clean it out sometime.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:39:56 PM EDT
I've been wondering if it would be legal to carry it in your passenger seat while driving, a little more accessable that way when sitting
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