Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 9/23/2011 2:15:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2011 12:55:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/25/2011 2:27:20 AM EST
How is the show? Parking must be free, don't hear any bitching.
Link Posted: 9/25/2011 4:59:05 AM EST
I went a couple months ago, parking wasn't free. Prices were still high on ammo but had real good deals on ar kits
Link Posted: 9/25/2011 5:13:47 AM EST
Its been over ten years since I have set up at a gunshow, can a non FFL still get a table and sell their personal gun related mechandise? What about personal guns as well? FWIW I have quite a bit of .223 and 7.62 x 39 I want to sell plus I have several dozen AR and AK mags that I;d like to sell.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 3:41:33 AM EST
i think so, seeing i bought some stuff from a guy who didn't have an FFL and had a table. he was selling some older stuff (M1 Carbine, revolvers, etc) he had a sign that read "private collector" or something to that effect on his table. however some of these guys are either very proud of their stuff or have no concept of what the going market rate is for their stuff. one guy actually said his prices for a used gun were higher than a new gun because i didn't have to paperwork at his table. seeing i have no problem with doing paperwork on a gun, i found absoutely no value in it. i didn't buy anything from the guy (in that case a Glock) because it was brand new at everyone's table for $500 and he had a used one with one 10-round mag for $750. evidently there was either a $250 idiot surcharge or, if you can't pass a background check, its a $250 fee to bypass that.

ive been to a few shows in different cities where these guys have a table set up, so i don't see a problem. however i'd definitely ask the person who is running the venue, and i may suggest going so far as to contact the local PD to make sure you don't run amuck of some city ordinance violation.

i knew a class 3 dealer that got a talking to from the City of Allen PD, who said there is a city ordinance against selling silencers. he was set up at a gun show there and they asked him to remove the silencers off his table so he complied. no problems, they were nice, but there was evidently a law. not that removing a single item off of your table is horrifying, but imagine if you brought a bunch of stuff and wasted your time loading it in only to find out it was not legal to sell them.

another guy i know was selling smoke grenades for airsoft/force-on-force training and since the county was in a burn ban the fire marshal told him he could not sell them. same kinda thing.....

Link Posted: 9/26/2011 5:26:49 AM EST
Tables at these shows run about $60-70 and the promoter might ask what you are selling. You are pefectly good and legal to sell your own items at the show for whatever you want (as long as they are legal to sell/own). Austin has been the only city that created a mess about individual sellers but there have been no problems in DFW. The Allen ordinance issue seems odd.

Now, since you want to set up a table as an individual, you will more likely not get a good place and have to sit on the edge of the show by possible non-gun related vendors but that beats walking around. Of all the shows I've attended, individual sellers have been the best deals out there if looking for used guns/magazines. Because other individual "dealers" know the newbies usually have some great deals, expect them to be all over your table before the show starts.

Link Posted: 9/26/2011 5:30:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By cop512:
i think so, seeing i bought some stuff from a guy who didn't have an FFL and had a table. he was selling some older stuff (M1 Carbine, revolvers, etc) he had a sign that read "private collector" or something to that effect on his table. however some of these guys are either very proud of their stuff or have no concept of what the going market rate is for their stuff. one guy actually said his prices for a used gun were higher than a new gun because i didn't have to paperwork at his table. seeing i have no problem with doing paperwork on a gun, i found absoutely no value in it. i didn't buy anything from the guy (in that case a Glock) because it was brand new at everyone's table for $500 and he had a used one with one 10-round mag for $750. evidently there was either a $250 idiot surcharge or, if you can't pass a background check, its a $250 fee to bypass that.

ive been to a few shows in different cities where these guys have a table set up, so i don't see a problem. however i'd definitely ask the person who is running the venue, and i may suggest going so far as to contact the local PD to make sure you don't run amuck of some city ordinance violation.

i knew a class 3 dealer that got a talking to from the City of Allen PD, who said there is a city ordinance against selling silencers. he was set up at a gun show there and they asked him to remove the silencers off his table so he complied. no problems, they were nice, but there was evidently a law. not that removing a single item off of your table is horrifying, but imagine if you brought a bunch of stuff and wasted your time loading it in only to find out it was not legal to sell them.

another guy i know was selling smoke grenades for airsoft/force-on-force training and since the county was in a burn ban the fire marshal told him he could not sell them. same kinda thing.....




Out of curiosity, how many shows have you been to? Are you new to the gun show business?
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 7:43:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2011 7:50:52 AM EST by mm38]
Out of curiosity....

In the Allen PD case. Can a local government pass an ordinance or law pertaining to the sale of firearms, specifically NFA items?


mm


PS: When I can get time, I'm going to look through the City of Allen ordinances to see if they actually have that ordinance.


mm


ETA: http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=13969&stateID=43&statename=Texas I looked, the only firearms related items I could find were carrying in parks, police, and discharging a firearms in city limits.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 8:04:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By mm38:
Out of curiosity....

In the Allen PD case. Can a local government pass an ordinance or law pertaining to the sale of firearms, specifically NFA items?


mm


PS: When I can get time, I'm going to look through the City of Allen ordinances to see if they actually have that ordinance.


mm


ETA: http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=13969&stateID=43&statename=Texas I looked, the only firearms related items I could find were carrying in parks, police, and discharging a firearms in city limits.


Thanks for checking since I doubt the city's ability to restrict select firearm sales. I have been told that Ft Worth fire marshals have issues with gun powder sales.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 12:47:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2011 12:50:53 PM EST by cop512]
Originally Posted By Tboy:
Originally Posted By cop512:
i think so, seeing i bought some stuff from a guy who didn't have an FFL and had a table. he was selling some older stuff (M1 Carbine, revolvers, etc) he had a sign that read "private collector" or something to that effect on his table. however some of these guys are either very proud of their stuff or have no concept of what the going market rate is for their stuff. one guy actually said his prices for a used gun were higher than a new gun because i didn't have to paperwork at his table. seeing i have no problem with doing paperwork on a gun, i found absoutely no value in it. i didn't buy anything from the guy (in that case a Glock) because it was brand new at everyone's table for $500 and he had a used one with one 10-round mag for $750. evidently there was either a $250 idiot surcharge or, if you can't pass a background check, its a $250 fee to bypass that.

ive been to a few shows in different cities where these guys have a table set up, so i don't see a problem. however i'd definitely ask the person who is running the venue, and i may suggest going so far as to contact the local PD to make sure you don't run amuck of some city ordinance violation.

i knew a class 3 dealer that got a talking to from the City of Allen PD, who said there is a city ordinance against selling silencers. he was set up at a gun show there and they asked him to remove the silencers off his table so he complied. no problems, they were nice, but there was evidently a law. not that removing a single item off of your table is horrifying, but imagine if you brought a bunch of stuff and wasted your time loading it in only to find out it was not legal to sell them.

another guy i know was selling smoke grenades for airsoft/force-on-force training and since the county was in a burn ban the fire marshal told him he could not sell them. same kinda thing.....




Out of curiosity, how many shows have you been to? Are you new to the gun show business?


no i am not in the gun show business. i attend them when i have weekends off. given the heat ive heard about, especially the incident you cited that happened in Austin, i dont think i would want the trouble of setting up a table. insofar as that Allen City Ordinance, who knows. but i would say that it was probably not worth the effort to tell the Allen Police Officer to go fly a kite and test that theory. if for some odd reason that law actually did exist, you'd be on the losing end of it. now if the officer was just full of hot air, then you would be fine. but it certainly would not be worth arguing with a cop about a stupid city ordinance that may or may not exist if the officer was only trying to be helpful. oh well. who knows. wouldnt be the first time an officer made up a law. i once had a partner officer tell a bar employee it was illegal for them to drink beer while on the clock. where he got that i have no idea. i looked for it and finally called a TABC agent who said that the only violation would be if the bar employee was intoxicated. but just drinking alone did not consitute a law violation unless they were a minor or something else.

so anyway in short, i go to the shows, i talk to a few vendors, some are retired and current LEO's. so i guess i have something in common with them. but i am honestly too scared to put my job on the line to get pinched by ATF or some overzealous police task force for selling my personal gun to someone who evidently they were scoping out. they can be wrong every time, but any arrest or indictment will suspend my TCLEOSE. not worth my job to sell a gun off paper really at a gun show. i have enough co-workers whom i trust who i could sell to and not run the risk of undue scrutiny.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 5:03:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By cop512:
Originally Posted By Tboy:
Originally Posted By cop512:
i think so, seeing i bought some stuff from a guy who didn't have an FFL and had a table. he was selling some older stuff (M1 Carbine, revolvers, etc) he had a sign that read "private collector" or something to that effect on his table. however some of these guys are either very proud of their stuff or have no concept of what the going market rate is for their stuff. one guy actually said his prices for a used gun were higher than a new gun because i didn't have to paperwork at his table. seeing i have no problem with doing paperwork on a gun, i found absoutely no value in it. i didn't buy anything from the guy (in that case a Glock) because it was brand new at everyone's table for $500 and he had a used one with one 10-round mag for $750. evidently there was either a $250 idiot surcharge or, if you can't pass a background check, its a $250 fee to bypass that.

ive been to a few shows in different cities where these guys have a table set up, so i don't see a problem. however i'd definitely ask the person who is running the venue, and i may suggest going so far as to contact the local PD to make sure you don't run amuck of some city ordinance violation.

i knew a class 3 dealer that got a talking to from the City of Allen PD, who said there is a city ordinance against selling silencers. he was set up at a gun show there and they asked him to remove the silencers off his table so he complied. no problems, they were nice, but there was evidently a law. not that removing a single item off of your table is horrifying, but imagine if you brought a bunch of stuff and wasted your time loading it in only to find out it was not legal to sell them.

another guy i know was selling smoke grenades for airsoft/force-on-force training and since the county was in a burn ban the fire marshal told him he could not sell them. same kinda thing.....




Out of curiosity, how many shows have you been to? Are you new to the gun show business?


no i am not in the gun show business. i attend them when i have weekends off. given the heat ive heard about, especially the incident you cited that happened in Austin, i dont think i would want the trouble of setting up a table. insofar as that Allen City Ordinance, who knows. but i would say that it was probably not worth the effort to tell the Allen Police Officer to go fly a kite and test that theory. if for some odd reason that law actually did exist, you'd be on the losing end of it. now if the officer was just full of hot air, then you would be fine. but it certainly would not be worth arguing with a cop about a stupid city ordinance that may or may not exist if the officer was only trying to be helpful. oh well. who knows. wouldnt be the first time an officer made up a law. i once had a partner officer tell a bar employee it was illegal for them to drink beer while on the clock. where he got that i have no idea. i looked for it and finally called a TABC agent who said that the only violation would be if the bar employee was intoxicated. but just drinking alone did not consitute a law violation unless they were a minor or something else.

so anyway in short, i go to the shows, i talk to a few vendors, some are retired and current LEO's. so i guess i have something in common with them. but i am honestly too scared to put my job on the line to get pinched by ATF or some overzealous police task force for selling my personal gun to someone who evidently they were scoping out. they can be wrong every time, but any arrest or indictment will suspend my TCLEOSE. not worth my job to sell a gun off paper really at a gun show. i have enough co-workers whom i trust who i could sell to and not run the risk of undue scrutiny.


You appear to know little about the gun shows or laws in Texas so please be careful giving misinformation and scaring other folks by your own unwarranted fears. Many LEOs know little about gun laws in Texas and I'm afraid, by your posts, you are in that group. By your comments, it looks like you are in the newbie category of gun shows but an expert in constructing AR15s.

Pop your cherry, grab a all your old guns you don't shoot anymore and stimulate the economy by getting a table at the local show. BTW, I have ZERO problems with telling LEOs at these shows to "go fly a kite" when I know they are clueless.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 7:53:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2011 7:54:44 PM EST by cop512]
Originally Posted By Tboy:
You appear to know little about the gun shows or laws in Texas so please be careful giving misinformation and scaring other folks by your own unwarranted fears. Many LEOs know little about gun laws in Texas and I'm afraid, by your posts, you are in that group. By your comments, it looks like you are in the newbie category of gun shows but an expert in constructing AR15s.

Pop your cherry, grab a all your old guns you don't shoot anymore and stimulate the economy by getting a table at the local show. BTW, I have ZERO problems with telling LEOs at these shows to "go fly a kite" when I know they are clueless.


yes, i know little about the gun shows. again i am sorry my post count does not support that. i do know lots about laws in Texas. i just don't happen to know small city municipal ordinances. who in Central Texas has a working knowledge of municipal ordinances in Allen? nobody. it is a city 200 miles away. i did not give out misinformation. read the post. it says what the Allen PD officer said - not what i said. nowhere does it state it is the God honest truth.

many LEO's knows little about gun laws in Texas. i am not one of those guys. i am a CHL instructor and a firearms instructor. i teach all kinds of use of force to civilians, private security, and cops. i am very well versed in Chapters 9 and 46 of the Penal Code.

and yes, you still have a sore ass from me schooling you on the AR-15 build thread. i asked you for your qualifications as you had asked mine in that thread. i am a Colt and Bushmaster certified factory armorer. you? nothing obviously. everything you learned is on the interwebs or on playstation 3.

it seems to be TBoy that you dont have a job that requires a state license to put food on your table. if you get some BS charge levied upon you, you can still go to work the next day and feed your family. i can't. i have much more to lose than a guy who doesn't have to rely on a state license to earn a living. so yes, i see no reason to put myself under scrutiny for selling guns "off paper" as you guys call it to anyone whom i see fit. the ATF, like i said, can be flat wrong, but i have to pay to defend myself, i have to find a new job in this shitty economy, etc. for what...to sell a couple of guns? not worth it to me. may be worth it to you as you are in a different situation than i am. if you don't believe me, go ask the guy who got arrested in Austin and lost his court trial and served time in federal lockup. he had the same thoughts you did. go and sell guns off paper to someone whom you thought was ok. then the feds trump up a case on you. i can't afford to lose my career and fund a criminal defense for selling one stinkin gun to the wrong guy. i think you should go tell cops whom you think are wrong and tell them to fly a kite each and every time. i also hope for your sake you are right every time (which im sure there are times you aren't in your life) and you don't cross paths at that point with a cop who has a hard on for you and decides to put you in jail. be in correctly or otherwise, an officer does have the right to lock you up in jail for up to 48 hours without any right to see a magistrate. yes, that is right. look it up in the CCP. but im sure since you know everything, you already knew that.

you can beat the rap but not the ride.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 1:57:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By cop512:
Originally Posted By Tboy:
You appear to know little about the gun shows or laws in Texas so please be careful giving misinformation and scaring other folks by your own unwarranted fears. Many LEOs know little about gun laws in Texas and I'm afraid, by your posts, you are in that group. By your comments, it looks like you are in the newbie category of gun shows but an expert in constructing AR15s.

Pop your cherry, grab a all your old guns you don't shoot anymore and stimulate the economy by getting a table at the local show. BTW, I have ZERO problems with telling LEOs at these shows to "go fly a kite" when I know they are clueless.


yes, i know little about the gun shows. again i am sorry my post count does not support that. i do know lots about laws in Texas. i just don't happen to know small city municipal ordinances. who in Central Texas has a working knowledge of municipal ordinances in Allen? nobody. it is a city 200 miles away. i did not give out misinformation. read the post. it says what the Allen PD officer said - not what i said. nowhere does it state it is the God honest truth.

many LEO's knows little about gun laws in Texas. i am not one of those guys. i am a CHL instructor and a firearms instructor. i teach all kinds of use of force to civilians, private security, and cops. i am very well versed in Chapters 9 and 46 of the Penal Code.

and yes, you still have a sore ass from me schooling you on the AR-15 build thread. i asked you for your qualifications as you had asked mine in that thread. i am a Colt and Bushmaster certified factory armorer. you? nothing obviously. everything you learned is on the interwebs or on playstation 3.

it seems to be TBoy that you dont have a job that requires a state license to put food on your table. if you get some BS charge levied upon you, you can still go to work the next day and feed your family. i can't. i have much more to lose than a guy who doesn't have to rely on a state license to earn a living. so yes, i see no reason to put myself under scrutiny for selling guns "off paper" as you guys call it to anyone whom i see fit. the ATF, like i said, can be flat wrong, but i have to pay to defend myself, i have to find a new job in this shitty economy, etc. for what...to sell a couple of guns? not worth it to me. may be worth it to you as you are in a different situation than i am. if you don't believe me, go ask the guy who got arrested in Austin and lost his court trial and served time in federal lockup. he had the same thoughts you did. go and sell guns off paper to someone whom you thought was ok. then the feds trump up a case on you. i can't afford to lose my career and fund a criminal defense for selling one stinkin gun to the wrong guy. i think you should go tell cops whom you think are wrong and tell them to fly a kite each and every time. i also hope for your sake you are right every time (which im sure there are times you aren't in your life) and you don't cross paths at that point with a cop who has a hard on for you and decides to put you in jail. be in correctly or otherwise, an officer does have the right to lock you up in jail for up to 48 hours without any right to see a magistrate. yes, that is right. look it up in the CCP. but im sure since you know everything, you already knew that.

you can beat the rap but not the ride.


First, regarding the thread about the spring. I misstated the wrong spring but there is a very good fix to tapping the back and putting a screw to keep the spring from flying out when taking off the buttstock. And to your statement, yes I have learned plenty from this site on how to build mulitple ARs instead of wasting money with a gunsmith. I also know that certain PD armorers are very limited in their knowledge base but I know plenty of SOTs & mfgs that will do the difficult jobs for me.

You know nothing about what I do for a living and if getting arrested would get me fired. You should also know that many city ordinances are BS and don't hold water when contrary to state & federal laws. You also stated that you would freely sell your firearms "off paper" to fellow LEOs. What is different from that and selling to a fellow upstanding citizen at a gun show? In my personal experience, I've seen more LEOs abuse gun laws than your Average Joe.

Also, the guy in Austin knowingly sold to an illegal alien, knowing he was breaking multiple laws. You need to get your facts together before spouting off and making wrong comparisons.

Let me guess, do you work for APD?
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 4:19:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tboy:
First, regarding the thread about the spring. I misstated the wrong spring but there is a very good fix to tapping the back and putting a screw to keep the spring from flying out when taking off the buttstock. And to your statement, yes I have learned plenty from this site on how to build mulitple ARs instead of wasting money with a gunsmith. I also know that certain PD armorers are very limited in their knowledge base but I know plenty of SOTs & mfgs that will do the difficult jobs for me.

You know nothing about what I do for a living and if getting arrested would get me fired. You should also know that many city ordinances are BS and don't hold water when contrary to state & federal laws. You also stated that you would freely sell your firearms "off paper" to fellow LEOs. What is different from that and selling to a fellow upstanding citizen at a gun show? In my personal experience, I've seen more LEOs abuse gun laws than your Average Joe.

Also, the guy in Austin knowingly sold to an illegal alien, knowing he was breaking multiple laws. You need to get your facts together before spouting off and making wrong comparisons.

Let me guess, do you work for APD?


yes, you misstated the wrong spring because you were quick to give your opinion and not quick to read before replying. but hey, mistakes happen. so you admit you have no factory schooling, no certification, yet you know more than a PD armorer that holds two factory certifications? um. ok. i guess you have never heard of liability.

i know nothing of what you do for a living. i can only tell you what i do for a living and that if i were arrested i'd at least lose my PD job and if i was lucky they'd put me in a civilian position until it got cleared up. but there is no reason for them to do me that favor. they can easily fire me for an arrest, even an unsubstantiated arrest. i dont know about every city and county ordinance, but what i do know is that i am not dumb enough to be the test case and try to get myself arrested hoping i can spend my time and money to prove a point that i do not need to prove. there are guys like you around that would do that for me, so why do i have to question a law that i dont care anything about? i stated i have sold a gun or two off paper to a fellow cop - yes, ones i know and have worked with for many years. a far cry from selling to someone at a gun show whom i know nothing about. i have no idea if the guy handing me money at a gun show is an upstanding citizen or a crook. i can't access their rap sheet at a gun show to do my personal business. i am free to sell a gun on occasion to whomever i chose so long as they are legally able to own/possess it, and i don't need an internet commando like you telling me who i can and can't sell my personal property to.

the guy in Austin, per the news, sold the gun to a man who produced a valid Texas government issued identification. but how was the man who sold the gun to the illegal alien in Ausitn supposed to know who is here legally and who is not? i know i have no access to that database. i dont think you do either. did you in fact know he was breaking multiple laws? which multiple laws were broken? let's see the facts that you say you know so much about. what i read in the news, the buyer produced valid ID. that was the main reason why people were so mad about the issue to begin with.

and no i do not work for APD. and i bet you don't have a job in law enforcement, nor do you have any armorer certification either. you are simply a know it all.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 6:51:46 PM EST
Never claimed to have attended a class for certification but there is an AR15 forum here that is extremely useful for DIY projects for fellow amateur gun nuts. I stick by my suggestion to tap the back of the receiver, cut the spring, and secure a small screw. This trick has been extremely helpful to many of us that like to take apart our ARs. Is this taught in a class? I have no clue. Does it work? You bet. I have never claimed to know more about you and your abilities in armorer skills but your first post in that thread was extremely condescending. This was HFT, not the technical section.

I assume you live in the Austin area but also assume you have not been lurking here that long. The situation in Austin was discussed in detail when it all came out. Local authorities threatened the gun show promoter that he could not allow any transactions outside an FFL transfer. The person in question was trying to sell a firearm (in opposition to instructions he was not allowed) but his mistake was knowing the buyer was illegal, having the illegal's buddy act as a straw purchaser, under watchful eyes of authorities at which time he was arrested. Per reports, the purchasers offered testimony and at the time it was understood no criminal actions would be taken against them, just the seller. Once all the facts came out, many members here agreed that the seller was not the victim, just a fool who knowingly broke the law. Were the City of Austin/APD wrong in their position denying individuals to legally sell firearms in public? I think so.

Regarding purchasing and selling guns: Buying from an FFL does not protect you since they are unable to verify if a pre-owned gun was stolen or used in a crime. If LEO decide to run serial numbers, you can still do the ride. I have no problem selling to upstanding individuals that I have no reason to believe are criminals. That's what makes EE here a great tool. Gun shows are also nice. Selling to friends is also good. Trying to scare others by your own fears about losing your job does not help.

I don't understand some of your rants. In one case, you went into a lecture telling fellow members we needed to attend these shows but then you state you would rather buy online. I'm a big fan of supporting the local economy and enjoy attending these shows and giving vendors my business. Are some of them FFLs? Yes. Are some not? Yes.

With that said, I won't be able to make this week's gunshow but encourage everybody that has free time this weekend to stop by and enjoy a good show. FWIW, that show brings out the best looking women.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 5:51:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tboy:
Never claimed to have attended a class for certification but there is an AR15 forum here that is extremely useful for DIY projects for fellow amateur gun nuts. I stick by my suggestion to tap the back of the receiver, cut the spring, and secure a small screw. This trick has been extremely helpful to many of us that like to take apart our ARs. Is this taught in a class? I have no clue. Does it work? You bet. I have never claimed to know more about you and your abilities in armorer skills but your first post in that thread was extremely condescending. This was HFT, not the technical section.


no, that is not taught in an armorer's course although i have seen it in real life. sure, it works, but again, you made a very quick attempt to tell the OP in that thread what to do and didn't realize before you spoke that you were speaking about the wrong thing. your further ignorance of AR builds above and beyond simple assembly of a LPK into a lower or disassembling a bolt carrier assembly was evident in another recent thread where you told a guy it was a DIY project to install an A2 FSB/gas block onto a virgin barrel, and that drilling the holes for taper pins was a DIY project. again, you were flat ass wrong, but you sarcastically mentioned that i should chime in. so, i chimed in - that you were wrong. again, you're not reading what the OP asked for. had you read it, you'd see tha tthe barrel needed to be drilled. that is a far cry from a DIY build, and i think you'd agree, had you read it. that is the issue here. you don't read but you are quick to tell someone what to do.

I assume you live in the Austin area but also assume you have not been lurking here that long. The situation in Austin was discussed in detail when it all came out. Local authorities threatened the gun show promoter that he could not allow any transactions outside an FFL transfer. The person in question was trying to sell a firearm (in opposition to instructions he was not allowed) but his mistake was knowing the buyer was illegal, having the illegal's buddy act as a straw purchaser, under watchful eyes of authorities at which time he was arrested. Per reports, the purchasers offered testimony and at the time it was understood no criminal actions would be taken against them, just the seller. Once all the facts came out, many members here agreed that the seller was not the victim, just a fool who knowingly broke the law.


i suggest you read this Fox News article: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/09/texas-gun-dealer-gets-prison-sentence-selling-gun-illegal-immigrant-id-illegal/ where is says:

"But Aviles wasn't the man who handed Copeland the money for the gun. That man was Leonel Huerta Sr., who presented as identification the valid Texas driver's license he had obtained before his visa expired in 2007. Copeland claimed he was presented with a valid driver's license and had no way of knowing that the man he was selling the gun to was an illegal immigrant, or that he intended to give the gun to another illegal immigrant."

while i was not there, and i was not part of an internet discussion played out by people who most likely were not there, but definitely had an opinion (like you) regarding the issue, and id dare say not too many on here are attorneys, im sure someone with a high post count said the guy was obviously wrong so it had to be that way. i can only go by reliable media sources, and ARFCOM is not that. Fox News reported the guy did what he did above. If that is true, Huerta was the guy who PRESENTED his VALID Texas ID Card to the seller. how would Copeland know in this instance that Huerta was here after his visa expired? he couldn't. Copeland has no access to that information, nor do i. you might, but i don't.
Were the City of Austin/APD wrong in their position denying individuals to legally sell firearms in public? I think so.

absolutely, seeing there was no law against it. however if there was a city ordinance enacted, i would not be the first guy to try it on purpose hoping to be able to "question authority".
Regarding purchasing and selling guns: Buying from an FFL does not protect you since they are unable to verify if a pre-owned gun was stolen or used in a crime.

nobody said that.
If LEO decide to run serial numbers, you can still do the ride.

nobody is talking about stolen guns. LE in TX does not have the ability to run a serial number to obtain ownership information. but you already knew that.
I have no problem selling to upstanding individuals that I have no reason to believe are criminals. That's what makes EE here a great tool. Gun shows are also nice. Selling to friends is also good.

Mr. Copeland (above) did not either and look what happened to him. where does it say that Copeland knew the purchaser was a criminal? if you sell a firearm out of state, it must go through a licensed FFL anyway. i would not sell anonymously over the internet sorry. gun shows are the target of local PD's, federal agencies like ATF, ICE, FBI, etc. you can only assume the Feds are in every gun show watching everyone.
Trying to scare others by your own fears about losing your job does not help.

again if you can READ, you'll see my post said that the situation was unique to ME. not you or anyone else. are you that stupid that you cannot comprehend that i never attempted to scare anyone...since their job situation is not the same as mine, I could lose my job by virtue of arrest on a BS charge. YOU may not. MANY OTHERS will not. i think you need to enroll in a reading comprehension class.

I don't understand some of your rants. In one case, you went into a lecture telling fellow members we needed to attend these shows but then you state you would rather buy online.

if i recall correctly, you again were too dumb to figure out "512" is in Central Texas and you chastised me for not driving 200 miles to Irving to attend a crappy gun show? i dont recall where i ever stated i would rather buy online. i have bought online before, yes, i do that, when the item is several thousand dollars and i don't want to pay sales tax. i try to support the guys who incur the expenses to display at the gun show, yes, but i am not going to pay ridiculous prices if they are not at a fair market price. but it is true, if you do not support local gun shows they will disappear.
I'm a big fan of supporting the local economy and enjoy attending these shows and giving vendors my business. Are some of them FFLs? Yes. Are some not? Yes.

true, and i have never disagreed.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 7:30:06 AM EST
This is the best hijack I've seen in a long time. Good job fellas.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 7:45:51 AM EST
my bad, I just wanted to find out if it was cool for an individual to get a table, still not sure
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 7:46:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By clharr:
This is the best hijack I've seen in a long time. Good job fellas.


I'm having fun with the new guy.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 7:56:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By JFP:
my bad, I just wanted to find out if it was cool for an individual to get a table, still not sure


If you have a free weekend, it will be fun. Sitting on the other side of the table puts many things in perspective and you get to hear alot of BS and "experts" that insist on educating you. It can get boring based on location of your table but could also be very intertaining if you sit next to the calendar girls or ATF. Unfortunately, I sat across from an old genteman trying to sell pain ointment - creepy and funny at the same time watching him rub peoples' shoulders/necks while holding onto his walker. I had to keep ignoring his motioning for a free rub but it was tempting at times.

I've been to almost every show in DFW the past few years and have only been hassled once by ignorant LEO but hassled twice by vendors who didn't have all the information. If you keep your nose clean, don't drink the KoolAid, or wear tinfoil, you're good to go. Don't let paranoid guys scare you off.

Give it a try, you'll meet some great guys.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 8:14:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 8:37:17 AM EST by Tboy]
Originally Posted By cop512:
Originally Posted By Tboy:
Never claimed to have attended a class for certification but there is an AR15 forum here that is extremely useful for DIY projects for fellow amateur gun nuts. I stick by my suggestion to tap the back of the receiver, cut the spring, and secure a small screw. This trick has been extremely helpful to many of us that like to take apart our ARs. Is this taught in a class? I have no clue. Does it work? You bet. I have never claimed to know more about you and your abilities in armorer skills but your first post in that thread was extremely condescending. This was HFT, not the technical section.


no, that is not taught in an armorer's course although i have seen it in real life. sure, it works, but again, you made a very quick attempt to tell the OP in that thread what to do and didn't realize before you spoke that you were speaking about the wrong thing. your further ignorance of AR builds above and beyond simple assembly of a LPK into a lower or disassembling a bolt carrier assembly was evident in another recent thread where you told a guy it was a DIY project to install an A2 FSB/gas block onto a virgin barrel, and that drilling the holes for taper pins was a DIY project. again, you were flat ass wrong, but you sarcastically mentioned that i should chime in. so, i chimed in - that you were wrong. again, you're not reading what the OP asked for. had you read it, you'd see tha tthe barrel needed to be drilled. that is a far cry from a DIY build, and i think you'd agree, had you read it. that is the issue here. you don't read but you are quick to tell someone what to do.

I assume you live in the Austin area but also assume you have not been lurking here that long. The situation in Austin was discussed in detail when it all came out. Local authorities threatened the gun show promoter that he could not allow any transactions outside an FFL transfer. The person in question was trying to sell a firearm (in opposition to instructions he was not allowed) but his mistake was knowing the buyer was illegal, having the illegal's buddy act as a straw purchaser, under watchful eyes of authorities at which time he was arrested. Per reports, the purchasers offered testimony and at the time it was understood no criminal actions would be taken against them, just the seller. Once all the facts came out, many members here agreed that the seller was not the victim, just a fool who knowingly broke the law.


i suggest you read this Fox News article: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/09/texas-gun-dealer-gets-prison-sentence-selling-gun-illegal-immigrant-id-illegal/ where is says:

"But Aviles wasn't the man who handed Copeland the money for the gun. That man was Leonel Huerta Sr., who presented as identification the valid Texas driver's license he had obtained before his visa expired in 2007. Copeland claimed he was presented with a valid driver's license and had no way of knowing that the man he was selling the gun to was an illegal immigrant, or that he intended to give the gun to another illegal immigrant."

while i was not there, and i was not part of an internet discussion played out by people who most likely were not there, but definitely had an opinion (like you) regarding the issue, and id dare say not too many on here are attorneys, im sure someone with a high post count said the guy was obviously wrong so it had to be that way. i can only go by reliable media sources, and ARFCOM is not that. Fox News reported the guy did what he did above. If that is true, Huerta was the guy who PRESENTED his VALID Texas ID Card to the seller. how would Copeland know in this instance that Huerta was here after his visa expired? he couldn't. Copeland has no access to that information, nor do i. you might, but i don't.
Were the City of Austin/APD wrong in their position denying individuals to legally sell firearms in public? I think so.

absolutely, seeing there was no law against it. however if there was a city ordinance enacted, i would not be the first guy to try it on purpose hoping to be able to "question authority".
Regarding purchasing and selling guns: Buying from an FFL does not protect you since they are unable to verify if a pre-owned gun was stolen or used in a crime.

nobody said that.
If LEO decide to run serial numbers, you can still do the ride.

nobody is talking about stolen guns. LE in TX does not have the ability to run a serial number to obtain ownership information. but you already knew that.
I have no problem selling to upstanding individuals that I have no reason to believe are criminals. That's what makes EE here a great tool. Gun shows are also nice. Selling to friends is also good.

Mr. Copeland (above) did not either and look what happened to him. where does it say that Copeland knew the purchaser was a criminal? if you sell a firearm out of state, it must go through a licensed FFL anyway. i would not sell anonymously over the internet sorry. gun shows are the target of local PD's, federal agencies like ATF, ICE, FBI, etc. you can only assume the Feds are in every gun show watching everyone.
Trying to scare others by your own fears about losing your job does not help.

again if you can READ, you'll see my post said that the situation was unique to ME. not you or anyone else. are you that stupid that you cannot comprehend that i never attempted to scare anyone...since their job situation is not the same as mine, I could lose my job by virtue of arrest on a BS charge. YOU may not. MANY OTHERS will not. i think you need to enroll in a reading comprehension class.

I don't understand some of your rants. In one case, you went into a lecture telling fellow members we needed to attend these shows but then you state you would rather buy online.

if i recall correctly, you again were too dumb to figure out "512" is in Central Texas and you chastised me for not driving 200 miles to Irving to attend a crappy gun show? i dont recall where i ever stated i would rather buy online. i have bought online before, yes, i do that, when the item is several thousand dollars and i don't want to pay sales tax. i try to support the guys who incur the expenses to display at the gun show, yes, but i am not going to pay ridiculous prices if they are not at a fair market price. but it is true, if you do not support local gun shows they will disappear.
I'm a big fan of supporting the local economy and enjoy attending these shows and giving vendors my business. Are some of them FFLs? Yes. Are some not? Yes.

true, and i have never disagreed.


Why would you post about your intent to attend the show and then later trash it? Why would you get on your soap box and lecture us about our need to attend these shows and then state how you are afraid of the very nature of this type of venue? You remind me why they have the saying "Keep Austin Weird" and why I moved away years ago.

So, why do some LEO insist on running serial numbers?

ETA:

ETA: Grayparatrooper claimed he had a new barrel. He never said it was virgin so I assumed it was like most AR barrels available for sale which do not require the extra work. I guess I don’t read as much into things as you do so my reading comprehension skills must be lacking.

Also, being a Bushmaster certified armourer probably doesn’t earn that many brownie points these days due to more folks not liking that mfg (for reasons I still don’t understand). While I’m at it, you do realize the reason why the AR platform is so popular? This standardized modular weapon is designed so there is no requirement to have a professional gunsmith build. I would venture to say most of the members in this forum have built our own AR and I highly doubt many of us have certifications. I admit, instead of sitting in a week long taxpayer course to get my diploma from the factory, I can learn the same information on this wonderful website at a fraction of the time and for FREE. Where do you think I learned the screw in the receiver trick?

I’ll also publically admit I’m not a certified plumber but have done my own plumbing (and would be glad to take a look at yours since you are from the Austin area), I’ve done electrical wiring but am not a certified electrician, have worked on my own cars but am not a certified automotive mechanic, have worked on my motorcycle but am not a certified motorcycle technician, and have even been known to do my own house repairs & yard work and am not Mexican. Do I understand the issue with liability because I’m not certified? You bet. Am I cheap, heavily insured, and could care less to pay some “expert” before I take a stab at fixing my own problem? Absolutely.

This Interweb can be used not only for talking crap, looking at midget porn, or watching Justin Bieber. It is also a great tool to learn so many new things which I now know you are a condescending scardy pants. And to everybody else, I hope this has been fun.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:14:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 9:14:47 AM EST by 70Karmin]
Originally Posted By JFP:
my bad, I just wanted to find out if it was cool for an individual to get a table, still not sure


Not sure who the promoter is, but if you go to their web site it has table rates and details.

I imagine that more than half the tables in the show are non dealers.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 9:42:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 9:44:38 AM EST by cop512]
you are again assuming everything without reading first.

let's take a look at grayparatrooper's quote: "I bought one of the m16a1 kits that came with the new barrel i finally got my retro lower for it now it just needs to get built. The barrel just needs the front sight base mounted (and of course the rest of the kit built)my ffl doesnt do that so i need someone who can preferably at a reasonable price. I'm in plano someone close would be great. "

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_8/464732_Need_to_get_retro_ar15_built.html

if you actually read the thread first Tboy, you'd see the barrel needs the FSB mounted. you'll also notice he said it was a retro build, which is in the title. one who can read and can apply logic can clearly figure out that the FSB is (1) missing from the barrel and (2) since it is retro build, drilling needs to be done. however, of course, it is probably on ARFCOM here somewhere what you'd need to do to if this were the case. of course, you did not read it. so again, going back to my Bushmaster and Colt armorer certifications, which are two more certifications than yours (which is ZERO), you are now badmouthing and ASSuming that they were "taxpayer" funded classes. do you have proof that they were taxpayer funded? or maybe, just perhaps, i paid for them out of my own pocket and took my own personal time off (non-paid) to attend them. why don't you stop assuming that you know every darn thing for a moment and just admit you don't know as much as you think you know, and that you have little to no business teaching anyone how to do anything on an AR other than basic AR stuff - installing LPK's, installing buttstocks, maybe reassembling a bolt carrier assembly. leave the more advanced stuff to the people who know what they are talking about - don't spew a bunch of garbage out there and tell someone that it is a DIY job and when they screw up their barrel/build, they are out money. if you could read carefully you'd know you had no business interjecting what needed to be done because you honestly didn't have any idea what needed to be done. so take your ball and go home, kid.

understand you can plumb your own house, work on your own car, etc. sure i have no problem with that. and you can spout off all the bad information about AR's you CLAIM to know by virtue of being a keyboard commando and reading the ARFCOM theads over and over. i certainly hope people will not take your bad advice seriously though. at least i have two major AR manufacturer's factory certifications behind what i say. you do not. i hope that somehow computes in your brain.

second....i have no idea about why LEO's want to run serial numbers when they buy guns from others. not one cop speak for all cops, sorry. i guess anyone who buys a gun from someone wants to know that it is not stolen?

and as shitty as you make Bushmaster out to be, they at least know how to install a FSB on a barrel. you on the other hand......dont.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:02:32 AM EST
Great deal for those that want to attend this weekend:

http://livingsocial.com/deals/121259-weekend-pass-for-two?msdc_id=11&ctr=3&ref=Deal092811_11_2805email
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:23:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 10:25:29 AM EST by roseco]
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 10:24:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By cop512:
you are again assuming everything without reading first.

let's take a look at grayparatrooper's quote: "I bought one of the m16a1 kits that came with the new barrel i finally got my retro lower for it now it just needs to get built. The barrel just needs the front sight base mounted (and of course the rest of the kit built)my ffl doesnt do that so i need someone who can preferably at a reasonable price. I'm in plano someone close would be great. "

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_8/464732_Need_to_get_retro_ar15_built.html

if you actually read the thread first Tboy, you'd see the barrel needs the FSB mounted. you'll also notice he said it was a retro build, which is in the title. one who can read and can apply logic can clearly figure out that the FSB is (1) missing from the barrel and (2) since it is retro build, drilling needs to be done. however, of course, it is probably on ARFCOM here somewhere what you'd need to do to if this were the case. of course, you did not read it. so again, going back to my Bushmaster and Colt armorer certifications, which are two more certifications than yours (which is ZERO), you are now badmouthing and ASSuming that they were "taxpayer" funded classes. do you have proof that they were taxpayer funded? or maybe, just perhaps, i paid for them out of my own pocket and took my own personal time off (non-paid) to attend them. why don't you stop assuming that you know every darn thing for a moment and just admit you don't know as much as you think you know, and that you have little to no business teaching anyone how to do anything on an AR other than basic AR stuff - installing LPK's, installing buttstocks, maybe reassembling a bolt carrier assembly. leave the more advanced stuff to the people who know what they are talking about - don't spew a bunch of garbage out there and tell someone that it is a DIY job and when they screw up their barrel/build, they are out money. if you could read carefully you'd know you had no business interjecting what needed to be done because you honestly didn't have any idea what needed to be done. so take your ball and go home, kid.

understand you can plumb your own house, work on your own car, etc. sure i have no problem with that. and you can spout off all the bad information about AR's you CLAIM to know by virtue of being a keyboard commando and reading the ARFCOM theads over and over. i certainly hope people will not take your bad advice seriously though. at least i have two major AR manufacturer's factory certifications behind what i say. you do not. i hope that somehow computes in your brain.

second....i have no idea about why LEO's want to run serial numbers when they buy guns from others. not one cop speak for all cops, sorry. i guess anyone who buys a gun from someone wants to know that it is not stolen?

and as shitty as you make Bushmaster out to be, they at least know how to install a FSB on a barrel. you on the other hand......dont.


I'm sorry about your fascination with FSB installation (go to the technical section if you like). I've done a couple without problems and have seen them with the notches cut out. I don't own BM but that has been the recent viewpoint in recent times.

Also, my reference to LEO running serial numbers on people they encounter on the job(CHL holders for example). Since you seem to know various large gun show vendors, I also will assume you know they have no way to verify the history of the guns they sell. Therefore, even buying from a reputable FFL can get you into hot water so why even own a gun?

So, again, why do you lecture us in one thread to attend these gunshows but then have different views in other threads?
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 4:55:40 PM EST
How much is parking at Amon Carter?
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 5:14:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By felrom:
How much is parking at Amon Carter?


last I was there it was $00.00
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 5:24:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By JFP:
Originally Posted By felrom:
How much is parking at Amon Carter?


last I was there it was $00.00

Website says parking is not free, but doesn't tell how much it is. =/

http://www.lonestargunshow.com/locations/
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 6:08:16 PM EST
I believe it was $5 last time I was there.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 6:17:17 PM EST
I always park in the south lot across from the stock barns and walk. It's only $ 3.00.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 6:54:12 PM EST
I never realized that. I'll do that next time. Thanks for the info!
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 5:22:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2011 5:26:24 AM EST by cop512]
Originally Posted By Tboy:
I'm sorry about your fascination with FSB installation (go to the technical section if you like). I've done a couple without problems and have seen them with the notches cut out. I don't own BM but that has been the recent viewpoint in recent times.

its not a fascination with a FSB more than it is necessary to point out the gross error so that a guy doesnt attempt to do it himself without the proper tools and screw up his build. it is apparent, from two postings now regarding builds, that either (1) you don't read fully before spouting off your two cents, or (2) you have no idea what you're talking about, or a combination of both. i think it is more (1) than (2). maybe if you actually took the time to read you'd better understand the question and be more productive on this board. i would dare say if you have that high of a post count all you do is post on here anyway and read very little.

if you have seen a barrel with the notches (holes) cut out in the barrel, then you also know that when you get a A2 FSB/gas block, it comes with no holes drilled. if it was not the original gas block/FSB and it has holes already drilled in it, chances are very high that they do not line up and if you force the pins through you will misalign the gas block with the gas orifice and screw up the functioning of the weapon. so how do you line the holes up so it is properly drilled to align with the existing holes in the barrel? not with hand tools and DIY. so again you are flat wrong. the holes need to be drilled using a drill press. i could go into a 2 page detailed description on how to do it, but in short, you are clearly wrong now a third time. i suggest you take one of these armorer courses before you give out more bad advice.

Also, my reference to LEO running serial numbers on people they encounter on the job(CHL holders for example). Since you seem to know various large gun show vendors, I also will assume you know they have no way to verify the history of the guns they sell. Therefore, even buying from a reputable FFL can get you into hot water so why even own a gun?

well, simply because one has a valid CHL does not mean he is not a crook necessarily. it means that he has a clean criminal history and nothing more. should i as a police officer not investigate further a potential DWI stop because the driver flashes a CHL? should i leave the scene of a family violence because the actor (Male or Female) flashes a CHL? should i simply abandon my routine investigation when someone flashes the good guy card? absolutely not. if you had a gun stolen you'd want it back. so, put yourself in the shoes of a guy who had his gun stolen. if i run across a gun on duty, i will check the serial number. why? so if in the event it was stolen say 15 years ago, i can at least return it to the rightful owner. it doesn't mean the CHL holder necessarily knew it was stolen, so that doesn't necessarily mean arrest all the time.

just because someone has a CHL does not mean he is honest and can be trusted. you are very near sighted in assuming that. insofar as people buying used guns from either FFL's or non-FFL's, yes, you run the risk of buying (inadvertently) a stolen gun. it happens. we understand that. maybe you need to attend the police academy too. new guns can be verified as not stolen by the dealer since they came from either the manufacturer or a distributor. they have an invoice with the serial number that a reasonable person (not you of course) that the new gun is not a stolen gun.

So, again, why do you lecture us in one thread to attend these gunshows but then have different views in other threads?

this question has been asked and answered. of course your reading comprehension is limited. there is a difference between attending a gun show and setting up a table. i guess you are too dumb to see the difference.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 8:35:04 AM EST
Guys, stop this crap and take it out of this thread. Go to the GD if you want

Robbie,
Do you have any monolithic uppers? Thanks
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 9:00:10 AM EST
Has anybody verified if the $14 coupon for the 2 person 2 day pass includes free parking?
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 10:40:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tboy:
Has anybody verified if the $14 coupon for the 2 person 2 day pass includes free parking?


That "Living Social" deal does not include the free parking offer and is good at the Original Fort Worth Gun Show October 22 and 23.
Link Posted: 9/29/2011 2:10:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By gungirl1987:
Originally Posted By Tboy:
Has anybody verified if the $14 coupon for the 2 person 2 day pass includes free parking?


That "Living Social" deal does not include the free parking offer and is good at the Original Fort Worth Gun Show October 22 and 23.


Thanks for checking.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 6:32:19 AM EST
Top Top