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Posted: 3/26/2009 9:49:29 AM EDT
26-30" OAL rifles that are registered as pistols in MI - okay to have a VFG or not?

Federally, the answer seems to be yes as they are still rifles.

State ? - is there a state law prohibiting VFG's on pistols? AOW would cover it, but it seems most of that is covered federally - anything specific about this at the state level.

Have at it.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 10:29:56 AM EDT
IIRC there is nothing in the books to dissuade it. That is more a federal question. So you should be alright.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:44:27 AM EDT
vfg on a rifle(including michigan rifle/pistol) is ok. But not on a pistol...ie. Don't put one on your ar/ak pistole...
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:29:57 PM EDT
Putting a vertial fg on a pistol makes it an AOW under fed law.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:49:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By amd_dude:
Putting a vertial fg on a pistol makes it an AOW under fed law.

However, having to register a rifle 26-30" with a 16"+ barrel is a STATE law, and the VFG on a pistol = AOW is a FEDERAL law, and a rifle 26"-30" is still a rifle in federal law.

A VFG on a 26"-30" rifle registerd as a pistol in Michigan should be legal, but I am not a lawyer, so, that is my opinion only.

But a true pistol AR/AK in michigan can't have a VFG unless it is a registered AOW.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 12:54:20 PM EDT
From a "repealed" letter to FFL's, from April, 2006:

U.S. Department of Justice

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives

Washington, DC 20226

Adding a Vertical Fore Grip to a Handgun

“Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand…. Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(29).

Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11, “pistol” is defined as a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

The NFA further defines the term “any other weapon” (AOW) as any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e).

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.

To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph; and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an “AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.

A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2. The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4, which results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms Technology Branch.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 1:26:13 PM EDT
This thread exemplifies the stupidity, contradiction and uselessness of current gun laws at the state and fed level. All these laws are good for only one thing: making criminals out of every day citizens who purposely try to navigate the labyrinth of idiocy that has been set up. They do nothing at all to control or constraint real criminals, who could care less about whether or not a VFG is appropriate.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 2:02:13 PM EDT
Yeah, it's crazy. A handgun is designed to be operated with one hand, but you can use both hands... as long as you don't put an extra grip on it... but there are pistols with magazines outside of the grip, which kindof makes that a grip... and I can use the other hand, blah, blah, blah...

The very idea that adding a vertical grip on a pistol makes it a rifle has got to be up there with the dumbest things the gov't has ever conceived.
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