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Posted: 10/1/2004 10:34:42 AM EST
Howdy,

I was going to be picking up a couple of stripped AR receivers in the near future. Had been thinking about what to do with them and a thought occurred to me...now with the ban 'expired', when the receivers come into my FFL, can I have him list one of them as a handgun, then build my 10" AR Pistol? Also, with the ban gone, does this mean I can put a forward grip on the handguard, since the restriction on a pistol grip on a pistol forward of the magazine (I believe) is dead....

This isn't necessarily restricted to Cav/AxEx/Ameetech, but since they're C2's, I thought this would be a good place to start....

TimW
Phoenix
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:42:44 AM EST
A forward pistol grip on a pistol would make it an NFA item in the AOW category - and you know what that entails...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:46:23 AM EST
It would?

Damn...oh well...can we at least now have handguards?
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:51:22 AM EST
Yes, "barrel shrouds" are fine now.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:01:10 PM EST
They don't have to be listed as a pistol on the 4473, just receiver is good enogh.

As long as the receiver was never a rifle you are good to go.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:04:01 PM EST
October 1, 1992


Firearms Technical Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
650 Mass. Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20226

Dear Sirs:

The Greensboro, NC BATF Compliance Office suggested that I write to
you for information on the following point.

I am interested on whether it is possible to have a commercially
manufactured rifle receiver changed to be legally considered to be a handgun
receiver, and how this can be done. The Compliance Office said that this
might be possible via a "Letter of Determination", but advised me to write
to you about the criteria and procedures.

For example, if a person has a rifle receiver and wishes to have it
built into a rifle-caliber handgun suitable for steel silhouette target
shooting, comparable to the bolt action Remington XP-100 handgun. I
understand that the serial number of this receiver is recorded as being for a
rifle. Could this person have this receiver's serial number considered to be
a handgun receiver? If so, what procedures and paperwork would be
necessary.

Sincerely,

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Oct 29 1992
Dear Mr. XXXXX:

This refers to your letter of October 1, 1992, in which you inquire
about the legality of manufacturing a handgun which utilizes a rifle
type receiver.

26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 # 5845(a)(4), the National Firearms Act (NFA),
defines the term "firearm" to include a weapon made from a rifle if
such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches
or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.

Utilizing the receiver of an existing rifle for the purposes of
manufacturing a handgun would constitute the making of a firearm as
defined above. Individuals desiring to make such a firearm must first
submit an ATF Form 1, Application To Make And Register a Firearm and
pay the applicable $200 making tax.

If an individual were to obtain a rifle type receiver that had not
previously been utilized in the assembly of a rifle, a handgun could be
made and not be subject to the provisions of the NFA. Verification
must be obtained from the manufacturer of the receiver to establish
its authenticity.

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we may
be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely your,
(signed)
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:11:52 PM EST
So, if I understand that ATF-ese, I need to have some 'verification' from the mfg that the receiver had never been made into a rifle???

Oh...maybe I'll just forget it....
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:15:41 PM EST
Tim,

I think you are going to run into the AOW problem with the forward grip.

For verification I think all you would need is a letter stating it was sold as a receiver.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:24:24 PM EST
I axed the idea of the forward grip. Don't want an AOW. Handguard/'barrel shroud' is fine.

As for the receiver, I am sending the MFG the money and they are shipping the receiver to a local FFL I use. Since the mfg is sending them to the FFL, and the FFL does the transfer paperwork, can't he just list it as "pistol" on the 4473? Or does he need to get a letter from the MFG, too?

Oh...so confusing....but no pistol grip!! Got that.. :)
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:29:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:34:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By TimW:
I axed the idea of the forward grip. Don't want an AOW. Handguard/'barrel shroud' is fine.

As for the receiver, I am sending the MFG the money and they are shipping the receiver to a local FFL I use. Since the mfg is sending them to the FFL, and the FFL does the transfer paperwork, can't he just list it as "pistol" on the 4473? Or does he need to get a letter from the MFG, too?

Oh...so confusing....but no pistol grip!! Got that.. :)



That's the *preferred* way of doing it.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:41:18 PM EST
another thread on the subject.

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=201723
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 2:07:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 3:19:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By TREETOP:

... I'm considering selling mine ...



Link Posted: 10/1/2004 3:27:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 3:46:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By TREETOP:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:

Originally Posted By TREETOP:

... I'm considering selling mine ...



forums.caraudio.com/vb/images/smilies/needpics.gif




Here's the only pic I've got online, it's from a while back:
www.adrenalinearms.com/photos/pistolhunnies.jpg




Nice... price?
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 4:37:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By TREETOP:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:

Originally Posted By TREETOP:

... I'm considering selling mine ...



forums.caraudio.com/vb/images/smilies/needpics.gif




Here's the only pic I've got online, it's from a while back:
www.adrenalinearms.com/photos/pistolhunnies.jpg




Wait a minute Treetop, when I saw it you had a Beta-mag in it. So it's included, on the pistol for no extra charge right???
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:10:03 PM EST
I recognize 3 of those hundred bills....i gave TREETOP last year..
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:17:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By jtb33:

Originally Posted By TimW:
I axed the idea of the forward grip. Don't want an AOW. Handguard/'barrel shroud' is fine.

As for the receiver, I am sending the MFG the money and they are shipping the receiver to a local FFL I use. Since the mfg is sending them to the FFL, and the FFL does the transfer paperwork, can't he just list it as "pistol" on the 4473? Or does he need to get a letter from the MFG, too?

Oh...so confusing....but no pistol grip!! Got that.. :)



That's the *preferred* way of doing it.



Since there are at least two questions in my original post, the "that's the preferred way..." answer, well, doesn't.

Does my FFL need a letter from the mfg stating this is/was a stripped receiver, never made into a gun, yes or no?

I know he can check the 'handgun' box on the 4473 to indicate it was transferred as a pistol receiver, but is this sufficient to fulfill the ATF "need a letter" statement above, yes or no?

Now that this is out of the way, when DPMS says their 7" Kitty Kat or the 11.5" upper are Class III dealers only, what about if it's going on a pistol?

Finally, Treetop, I would like to build one because a) it's cheaper (as a part dealer I get parts for, well, dealer cost) and b) because I can't afford to plonk down all that money all at once.

TimW
Phoenix
Practical Tactical, LLC
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:31:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By azratt:
I recognize 3 5 of those hundred bills....i gave TREETOP last year..



... fixed
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 9:56:08 PM EST
you too???.......LMAO
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 10:27:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:24:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By azexarms:
simple. Have the receiver manufacturer go get the thing engraved. A simple "Pistol" should do. Anywhere on the thing.

Then he does your 4473, check the box that says "handgun" instead of "long gun". Voila!

Documentation from the manufacturer.

D.
AZEX



Ok..the MFG in question is Rock River and I am having them ship my receivers to an FFL for xfer to me. Do you think/know if they do this sort of thing??

TimW
Phoenix
The Shell Question Man
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:30:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 1:14:58 PM EST
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