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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/22/2005 11:23:16 PM EDT
ok i have a thread link here in the ar15 forums about what is legal and not legal, they directed me towards here. so if any of you know or could help me out i would greatly appreciate it. also i am finding it hard to figure out about the 20 rd mag limit. the section of the md laws off nra.com said
After June 1, 1994, it is unlawful to sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer any detachable firearm magazine (except a tube magazine for a .22) that will hold more than 20 rounds. Possession is not prohibited.


so does this mean as long as its not bought in md i can have like a 100rd drum mag
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 6:08:46 AM EDT
yes....its that simple. Because mags have no way of telling when they were purchased anything could have been bought prior to the 1994 MD ban.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 6:40:16 AM EDT
You can legally go out of Maryland and buy all the 30 rounders and above you want and bring them back. Personally, I buy them on line and have them sent to my parents' place in WV and pick them up whenever I go back there.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 2:15:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
yes....its that simple. Because mags have no way of telling when they were purchased anything could have been bought prior to the 1994 MD ban.



You're right about it being that simple, but.., 30 rnd mags made after 1994 are date stamped and LE/MIL marked. There are a few that were date stamped prior to 1994 as well. Inasmuch, It still doesn't matter what the date stamp is because as long as the transfer takes place out-of-state they are still legal. So, go to VA,WV,PA and have at it.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:37:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By colesteele:

Originally Posted By Flyfishing26:
yes....its that simple. Because mags have no way of telling when they were purchased anything could have been bought prior to the 1994 MD ban.



You're right about it being that simple, but.., 30 rnd mags made after 1994 are date stamped and LE/MIL marked. There are a few that were date stamped prior to 1994 as well. Inasmuch, It still doesn't matter what the date stamp is because as long as the transfer takes place out-of-state they are still legal. So, go to VA,WV,PA and have at it.


Absolutely.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:29:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 10:29:16 AM EDT by gunman0]
"Possession is not prohibited." Have to love that line. Makes the whole law silly.

The debated issue is the legality of purchasing magazines from out of state companies and having them shipped to you. Semantics of the word "receive".
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:28:19 AM EDT
yeah, also like if they ban something, you can have it as long as it was bought before the ban
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:44:52 PM EDT
also i found out that assault rifles are regulated weapons so you have to be 21. but on a md ar15 site they said that if it has a hbar then its considered a regual rifle. the rifle i want to get is an hbar. will i be able to get one when im 18 or are they also restricted to 21. here is the site i was at site
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:36:34 AM EDT
I may be mistaken but I think the HBAR part of it just means its handled like a shotgun/long rifle? I think this nullifies the over 21 clause. But then again I could be mistaken as Im 23 and only collected since I was 21 so I never had to go through waiting for a certain age to own a rifle/handgun.

Joe
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:08:31 AM EDT
yeah thats what alot of sites say. i just want to be covered because i really want one and alreadty have one picked out
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:27:31 AM EDT
The Maryland "restricted weapons" regulations that deal with AR-15's specifically exempt Colt's "Match" or "Target" AR-15's as "HBAR" (heavy barreled) and treat them as regular long guns for purposes of possession and transfer. The law identifies these models by their "HBAR" rollmark on the receiver.

So, yes, you can freely buy/posess an HBAR at age 18. An HBAR may also be transferred among adults without police (state) supervision, as if we were free citizens, like any "un-restricted" long gun.

There is some inconsistency in the application of this regulation in that the "HBAR" on the receiver is a Colt trademark, but other manufacturers also product rifles with "HBAR" barrels and can only stamp the barrels themselves. It is RUMORED that MSP allows/might allow the barrel mark to identify a rifle as an "HBAR", but there is no documentation that would get one off the hook in the event of zealous enforcement. In the "spirit of the law", if it is a heavy barreled model and says so on the barrel's rollmark, it is the sort of rifle the law meant to exempt, but by technicality the mark is supposed to be on the lower receiver. I got my kid a "Colt" only for that ("HBAR") reason.

Here is a little more on it:
groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/ar15sthelaw.msnw
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 12:37:41 PM EDT
There are HBAR versions of the AR15 from just about every manufacturer. As mentioned above, they are marked HBAR in different spots on the rifle itself. A few manufacturers don't even mark the HBAR nomenclature anywhere (i.e. RRA), but they are still heavy barreled rifles. Remember, Heavy BARrel means a heavy profile under the handguards, from there forward it can have an M4 (i.e. RRA or Colt 6920HB) or straight profile. There are a couple shops that I know of who know the law well enough to abide it (sale of "non-regulated" HBAR's to 18 year olds etc.), but I'm not here to name drop. If you fail to find a shop on your own, IM me for contact info and I'll help you as best I can.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 7:26:09 PM EDT
thanks you gusy for the detailed responses. on that site you gave me, it says that bushmaster hbars are also exempt from the regulated firearm clause. i will be getting one, but i will be bought by someone else in pa then the name will be transferred to me as soon as i turn 18. how would i go about doing a name transfer and is it okay if the person whoi the gun is registered too is in another state. thanks guys for all the replies. this is the only clear definitive answer have been able to get from alot of searching and a million sites
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:13:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By J_man61:
. . . i will be getting one, but i will be bought by someone else in pa then the name will be transferred to me as soon as i turn 18. how would i go about doing a name transfer and is it okay if the person whoi the gun is registered too is in another state. . . .



It depends upon the state of residence for your friend.

If your friend is a PA resident, he/she will have to transfer the rifle to you through an FFL, as per federal law. The FFL could be in PA, if you went up there, or in MD, if he brings or ships the rifle down. This transfer is only going through an FFL because it is interstate, not because of the sort of rifle you are getting. The same would apply to a single shot .22 coming across state lines.

If your friend is a MD resident, and has legally purchased the rifle through a PA FFL and brought it home, then he may sell the rifle to you directly, in accordance with the fed & state laws.

DO NOT set yourself as a "straw-man purchaser". If you cannot legally buy the rifle at the time your friend decides to sell it to you, or if your friend buys the rifle when you otherwise cannot qualify, you may be breaking the law. Be very careful to follow all transfer laws.

There will be no "name transfer", you will legally buy a rifle "face-to-face" that does not have to be registered/transferred. You may wish to get a bill of sale to document your ownership if it is ever necessary to prove it's actually yours.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:36:23 PM EDT
well he will be buying it for me, from pa. he has a pa driver's license. he lives here in MD so it will be in his name but it will be at my residence. then i jan he will be moving to CA. it will be put in my name in may when i turn 18, but till then the gun will be at my house locked up. what will he have to do if the guns is in md but he is in CA. if he has to sign things will they let a fax machine be used
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:42:04 AM EDT
No matter where your friend is "living" at the moment, his PA license demonstrates PA residency, thus, for your purposes this becomes an interstate transaction and will ultimately require an FFL to handle paperwork for you. No escape, no gymnastics, no loophole . . . .

The only possible exception to this I can think of would be if your friend, meantime (between buying the rifle as a PA resident who has then moved to MD), becomes a MD resident, replete with MD driver's license, etc.. Then, a MD resident (your friend) can transfer the HBAR to another MD resident (you) with no paperwortk required. Only then.

Otherwise, this, and any interstate transaction requires that an FFL make this formal transfer for you BEFORE you legally take posession. That is, before the rifle is allowed to live at your house, in your posession.

Regardless of who's "name is on the gun" (faulty concept), posession is the actual legal term. In the rifle's case, it matters more where the rifle "lives" than it's original state of residency. If the rifle is "living" at your house, then it is very simple, you have possession of it. Pretty clear, right?

Under your proposed scenario, you will be "physically posessing" the rifle. BEFORE you take legal posession of the rifle - no can do. You must follow the law and make the transfer legally. You still have a lot of time ahead of you to try to stay out of jail, might as well get started with this . . .

You MAY rate some slack if the rifle is locked up at your house by your friend and you cannot access it, but IMHO, you would be on very thin ice. If it were my butt on the line, I'd be very careful doing what you consider and make sure you follow the law.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:50:38 AM EDT
so if a gun ios in your name you HAVE to have at your house all the time. he is moving to ca so he couldn't take if he wanted too. there assault rifle registration period has ended
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 8:26:04 AM EDT
No, that's not exactly what I am saying.

If he wanted to leave his rifle with another PA resident in storage, or let another PA resident use the gun to go hunting or shooting or decorate the homestead or whatever legal use he had in mind, that's fine. No problem, no transfers, no jurisdiction by federal law.

That's not the problem we are looking at here. Here, the issues are:

A) primarily - moving the rifle across state lines to another person's posession, w/o an FFL
B) secondary/temporarily - leaving the rifle with a minor, any minor
C) a non-FFL storing firearms for others

A) Even if he wants to store the rifle with someone out of (his) state, as far as I understand the law, it must be transferred by an FFL. Even if you don't give him money now, and the deal isn't sealed, you would still _"posess"_ the rifle. Again, it's the "posession" that is addressed by law. He could legally carry the rifle across state lines himself, as long as he maintains posession of it, like attending a rifle match or going hunting. Once he transfers posession to someone else, it becomes interstate commerce and federal law has a say in it.

B) leaving the rifle with you, as a minor, will not be legal, no matter what state, no matter who's rifle is really is.

C) I'm not positive, but to store firearms for someone else, especially from out of state, might require you to be a licensed FFL anyway.

Unfortunately, people moving to CA have a preview of what MD is quickly becoming. It's a travesty. I understand that your friend cannot take his rifle to CA with him, but the decision to move does not pre-empt any laws.

If your friend is in a pinch and needs to store the rifle until you can legally receive it, perhaps it can be trasferred to one of your parents, a close relative or trusted friend until you are of age. Once you turned 18 and can otherwise legally posess a firearm, your aunt or father or cousin could simply hand you the rifle and say "congrats, it's yours now. . .". No further paperwork, no pain and suffering. All fair and square and legal. No federal prison time - everyone's happy.

I'm all for helping young shooters and actively do so in several ways. I'd like to see you get your rifle and enjoy it, my 20 yo daughter loves her "Pony" (HBAR), BUT, as it is, you seem to be trying to get around a law that pretty strongly and specifically applies to exactly what you'd like to do, ever since about 1968. The deck is long been stacked against you here.

While I sympathise and agree with you as to how silly all this is, etc., you can wind up in pretty deep trouble if any part of your deal doesn't go exactly according to the law. We can pick at semantics and look for scenarios to not apply the law, BUT, the law is simple and specific - have an FFL do the (interstate) deal for you, stay out of trouble, especially when it's this easy to do so.

Maybe, at this juncture, you should expand your research into how well young people fare in federal prison and look over the menu.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 11:50:20 AM EDT
Remember, J_Man-

There's a reason why gun laws are confusing and oftentimes seem to make no sense. It seems simple enough to say that they were crafted by idiots who know nothing about guns (or logic). While this is certainly true, it is also true that these laws were designed to confuse you, to trick you into doing something harmless and innocent that can land you in Club Fed for the next 10 years. Be safe, just go through an FFL for all your transactions, regardless of circumstances. Does it suck to have to pay $20 and get government approval to exercise your rights? Yeah, absolutely. Do we have an absolute right to buy and sell guns face to face (or even through the mail) anytime we feel like it, regardless of what the government says? Yes, definitely. But you don't do our cause any good rotting away in Federal prison because you didn't dot your i's and cross your t's when doing a transaction like this. It's always best to stay on the safe side. I would hate to see another good person go to jail as a result of these Stalinistic laws that we have.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 1:05:19 PM EDT
thanks guys for the replies, i think its stupid but i don't want to go to jail and drop the soap , so he would have to take it to a ffl and get it transfered to my parent. do we get a paper that says its in our possesion or something. and i have to pay $20 for this. thanks for the info. i wil be mine as im giving him the money to get it for me cheaper in pa, but have to wait till im 18 for it to be mine.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 8:22:54 AM EDT
To complete the transfer and receive the rifle, your parent would complete a Form 4473 (yellow form) and submit to an "insta-check" (NICS). IIRC, there is no customer copy of this transaction, but remember, it's not for YOU, it's for the government, so don't expect the courtesy of a copy.

Once your parent executes the transfer, it is technically in their name, since the 4473 willl have their name on it, as well as the (permanent) NICS record. They will be legally entitled to dispose of the rifle in any lawful manner, to include gifting it to you, once you are of age.

The transfer may ultimately cost more than $20. The $20 figure is the maximum charge allowed for the mandatory FFL transfer of a restricted firearm between two in-state parties, plus the $10 MSP fee. To recieve a rifle from out of state and transfer it to you is a different act and there is no legislated price cap on it. Some dealers get as much a $50, others are as reasonable as $25, 30, 35 . . . . check around.

Good luck, I hope you enjoy your AR.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:46:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eshell:
To complete the transfer and receive the rifle, your parent would complete a Form 4473 (yellow form) and submit to an "insta-check" (NICS). IIRC, there is no customer copy of this transaction, but remember, it's not for YOU, it's for the government, so don't expect the courtesy of a copy.

Once your parent executes the transfer, it is technically in their name, since the 4473 willl have their name on it, as well as the (permanent) NICS record. They will be legally entitled to dispose of the rifle in any lawful manner, to include gifting it to you, once you are of age.

The transfer may ultimately cost more than $20. The $20 figure is the maximum charge allowed for the mandatory FFL transfer of a restricted firearm between two in-state parties, plus the $10 MSP fee. To recieve a rifle from out of state and transfer it to you is a different act and there is no legislated price cap on it. Some dealers get as much a $50, others are as reasonable as $25, 30, 35 . . . . check around.

Good luck, I hope you enjoy your AR.



Transfers down in Montgomery County run $75 at most dealers, if you can believe that. As for getting a copy of form 4473, I always ask my dealers for a copy when I get the weapons transferred to me. Of course, I bought all my guns when I lived in Tennessee (what a fantastic place!), so I needed the 4473's to prove that I had obtained my weapons legally so that I could posess "unregistered" regulated weapons in MD. I've never met a dealer that had a problem making a copy as long as you ask politely. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 8:32:48 PM EDT
Guys I just found a transfer dealer in Montgomery County who does transfers of regulated weapons for $30 total. I'm getting the rifle this weekend. I'll post how it goes.

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 6:52:26 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 8:44:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By J_man61:
i am finding it hard to figure out about the 20 rd mag limit. the section of the md laws off nra.com said
After June 1, 1994, it is unlawful to sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer any detachable firearm magazine (except a tube magazine for a .22) that will hold more than 20 rounds. Possession is not prohibited.


so does this mean as long as its not bought in md i can have like a 100rd drum mag



From centerfirearms



Can anyone confirm this?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 9:11:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By enemy:
Guys I just found a transfer dealer in Montgomery County who does transfers of regulated weapons for $30 total. I'm getting the rifle this weekend. I'll post how it goes.




WHO WHO WHO WHO WHO?? Let us know!!!

if it works out good
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 9:11:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 9:13:29 AM EDT by vote_republican]

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:

Originally Posted By J_man61:
i am finding it hard to figure out about the 20 rd mag limit. the section of the md laws off nra.com said
After June 1, 1994, it is unlawful to sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer any detachable firearm magazine (except a tube magazine for a .22) that will hold more than 20 rounds. Possession is not prohibited.


so does this mean as long as its not bought in md i can have like a 100rd drum mag



From centerfirearms

64.226.66.194/images/headers/Hicapmagsfooter.gif
Can anyone confirm this?


What's to confirm? They're saying the same thing, unless I'm mis-reading something
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 9:12:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 9:12:39 AM EDT by vote_republican]
sorry, double tap
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:01:20 AM EDT
Technicaly, buying out of state and bringing it home to maryland would be "transfering" it. I think the only way to legaly have one is to have had them before the ban and had retained them in ones possesion. And i doubt dates on mag would hold up in court. They could have been stamped any date. Its not a tracked item.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:44:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 6:44:49 AM EDT by Forest]

Originally Posted By CobraCutter:
Technicaly, buying out of state and bringing it home to maryland would be "transfering" it.



No it isn't.

Transfer is when you give somebody a magazine. For example you give your buddy a 30rnd magazine while you're at the range, or a dealer gives you a free 30rounder with the purchase of a rifle.

Bringing it into the state would be transporting it or importing it, which are entirely different (and not prohibited) activties.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 3:10:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 3:10:46 PM EDT by thedoctors308]
I live in MD during the summer but I go to school in PA.
I ordered some 30 rounders from a guy here, but he said he couldn't ship because I was from MD.
So now, my info says PA - thats where they get shipped to anyway.
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