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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 6/17/2007 6:38:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 7:15:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 7:28:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 8:26:27 AM EST
Nice pics Mark !!!



Cheers

Link Posted: 6/17/2007 9:28:41 AM EST
No Sea Harriers, the single most important element in the recapture of the Falklands, Neue Arbiet scrapped them all to save a few quid.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 10:15:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
No Sea Harriers, the single most important element in the recapture of the Falklands, Neue Arbiet scrapped them all to save a few quid.


+1 on that

Merlins and Apaches though, only 25 years too late, not bad for MOD procurement.

Probably sold the Sea Harriers to someone else who will use them against us in the future..............................

Nice pics though Mark, good spot I've got some prints somewhere, taken fron Flyco on Invicible during a busy period, must dig them out..
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 10:21:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 10:22:05 AM EST by streetfighter]
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 10:52:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

Originally Posted By vito113:
No Sea Harriers, the single most important element in the recapture of the Falklands, Neue Arbiet scrapped them all to save a few quid.


+1 on that

Merlins and Apaches though, only 25 years too late, not bad for MOD procurement.
.



Bravo November, the Chinnook you see in all the Falkands War pictures, (she was the sole surviving Chinnook from Atlantic Conveyor), is still in front line service…

That's about par for MoD too…
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 11:08:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 11:14:09 AM EST by streetfighter]
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 11:34:28 AM EST
when talking of MOD procurement don't forget the 8 SF chinooks that were delivered to (the wrong) spec that have been sat in storage since 97 - finally being modified so they can fly at long last. Also, the Sea Harriers kept the argies away but don't forget the GR3s that did the gound attack as well as the numerous frigates on the gun line pounding away (despite the Navy saying that no ship needed a gun anymore in the mid 70s). It reminds me of the Typhoon needing gun, then not needing it, then finally needing it. Only an extra £5 million to change their minds twice....

Link Posted: 6/17/2007 11:41:05 AM EST
Had a Lancaster and a Hurricane fly over my house. were they part of todays events?
Thought it was only aircraft types that took part in the Falklands, but seeing the Apache's in the pics I suppose they dusted off everything in the inventory.....
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 12:03:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2007 12:05:29 PM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By nick624:
when talking of MOD procurement don't forget the 8 SF chinooks that were delivered to (the wrong) spec that have been sat in storage since 97 - finally being modified so they can fly at long last. Also, the Sea Harriers kept the argies away but don't forget the GR3s that did the gound attack as well as the numerous frigates on the gun line pounding away (despite the Navy saying that no ship needed a gun anymore in the mid 70s). It reminds me of the Typhoon needing gun, then not needing it, then finally needing it. Only an extra £5 million to change their minds twice....




Well actually the SF Chinnooks were 100% the MoD's fault. They wanted the Special Forces CH-47's the Yanks used but decided they had a cunning plan to get them on the cheap… Instead of buying the all digital CH-47's they wanted to buy the cheaper analogue CH-47's and fit all the gucchi toys to them,… Boeing said 'that won't work'… as usual, the MoD thought they knew better… connecting up digital toys to an analogue airframe was a non starter but MoD had a go. Millions of pounds later, they ended up with a bunch of royally fucked up airframes that were such a bodge job they were judged too unsafe for service so were stuck in a shed and forgotten about.


Fast forward and after a very expensive gutting and rebuild to 'standard' spec they are now going into service.


For information:

Remanufactured as new by Boeing ex US Army CH-47D's cost $15 million a piece

New Build latest model ultra gucchi CH-47F's cost $35 million a piece


MoD has spent to date $545 million on those 8 CH-47's that started out as the gucchi model and are now the basic 'D' model…

That's $68 million a piece!


That would have bought us 36 remanufactured D's
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 12:35:26 PM EST
Streetfighter we must be neighbours, had my camera to hand when they flew past my house - there and back !!!

The swallow in the 3rd pic must have shit himself - so did a Cessna type light aircraft that flew at 90 degrees into the formation and did a monster evasive turn and dive to avoid contact.

http://dansanderson.co.uk/falklands.jpg

http://dansanderson.co.uk/falklands2.jpg

http://dansanderson.co.uk/falklands3.jpg

http://dansanderson.co.uk/falklands4.jpg
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 12:35:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By vito113:
No Sea Harriers, the single most important element in the recapture of the Falklands, Neue Arbiet scrapped them all to save a few quid.


They're all gone

I never realised

ETA: Vulcan 607 should've been there too (I'm reading the book)


Ah, an interesting read. I will make no comment as you are reading it. If you haven't already, you will also need to read Nigel Wards book 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands'. Fascinating stuff, although hotly contested.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 12:39:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

Originally Posted By vito113:
No Sea Harriers, the single most important element in the recapture of the Falklands, Neue Arbiet scrapped them all to save a few quid.


+1 on that

Merlins and Apaches though, only 25 years too late, not bad for MOD procurement.
.



Bravo November, the Chinnook you see in all the Falkands War pictures, (she was the sole surviving Chinnook from Atlantic Conveyor), is still in front line service…

That's about par for MoD too…


No surprise there. When I was breaking helicopters for the Queen, most of the Sea King airframes in service then were older than I was, and the Gazelles I trained on have only fairly recently gone out of service, I remember seeing pictures of them for auction. Couldn't quite run to the cost of one.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 12:43:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By limey1:
Had a Lancaster and a Hurricane fly over my house. were they part of todays events?
Thought it was only aircraft types that took part in the Falklands, but seeing the Apache's in the pics I suppose they dusted off everything in the inventory.....


I believe the Apaches were in storage for a while at Shawbury because of a lack of pilots. I offered to take them out for a spin occasionally to blow the cobwebs off but they were very rude and monosyllabic.......................
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 1:03:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:



For information:

Remanufactured as new by Boeing ex US Army CH-47D's cost $15 million a piece

New Build latest model ultra gucchi CH-47F's cost $35 million a piece


MoD has spent to date $545 million on those 8 CH-47's that started out as the gucchi model and are now the basic 'D' model…

That's $68 million a piece!


That would have bought us 36 remanufactured D's


and we wonder where the money goes....

I know we all complain about procurement, but this should be making headlines - or am I hopelessly old & gittish and very out of touch (no need to answer that!)
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 1:14:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
and the Gazelles I trained on have only fairly recently gone out of service,


Some of them are still in service. They aren't being used for observation as they were designed, but they are still a good little chopper being used for training etc.

I had a ride in an Army Gazelle only 4 weeks ago.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 1:48:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 9:04:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2007 9:09:19 AM EST by IcarusY625]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

Originally Posted By limey1:
Had a Lancaster and a Hurricane fly over my house. were they part of todays events?
Thought it was only aircraft types that took part in the Falklands, but seeing the Apache's in the pics I suppose they dusted off everything in the inventory.....


I believe the Apaches were in storage for a while at Shawbury because of a lack of pilots. I offered to take them out for a spin occasionally to blow the cobwebs off but they were very rude and monosyllabic.......................



True… do you know why that was?

MoD assumed that as per usual MoD contracts the Apaches would be delivered years late so to save a few bob set the training schedule to start a few years late and end a few years later than the expected in service date… no point in training all those pilots if the helos were going to be @2-4 years late into service!

Trouble was, those pesky buggers at Boeing and Westland delivered all the Apaches on time as per contract…


Lots of new shiney helicopters but not lots of new shiney pilots.


I thought it was just because they thought I was a c_^#*^!

..mind you those helpful chaps at Bell Textron didn't mind letting me play with their latest (civilian) creation,......but I did really want a go in a Huey Cobra. They thought I was a c@)&^ too but were far more polite about it as they were trying to sell us something..
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 10:00:53 AM EST
Impressive pics! I'll have to check the BBC news here at 6 Peyem.

BTW, I wasn't aware that the Sea Harrier was no longer in service in the UK. They're LOUD, though, aren't they? (our AV-8B versions are)
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 11:13:59 AM EST
We still have Harrier GR7's & 9's as a stop gap in joint Navy/RAF unit until the arrival of the Lockheed Martin F35 VSTOL thing.

I think the AV8's used by the USMC were seriously reworked, bigger and better wings, avionics upgrades and so on, but yes they are loud, particularly when they sneak up behind you and pass close enough to make your cabin windows rattle ...!
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 11:45:01 AM EST
What always boggled my mind was the bicycle-chain arrangement on the thrust nozzles. Seemed almost too crude for something that flys like a UFO. You'd think that with all that VIFFing, something would snap. I guess the F-35 doesn't allow for that manoeuver.

I hate to see the Harrier go to scrap. For those interested in air museums, the USAF Museum in Dayton, Ohio has one of the early Kestrels on display.

Jim
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 12:32:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
We still have Harrier GR7's & 9's as a stop gap in joint Navy/RAF unit until the arrival of the Lockheed Martin F35 VSTOL thing.

I think the AV8's used by the USMC were seriously reworked, bigger and better wings, avionics upgrades and so on, but yes they are loud, particularly when they sneak up behind you and pass close enough to make your cabin windows rattle ...!



They are only a 'stop gap' in a Labour politicians wet dream.

The FRS2 could do 650kts and was supersonic in a dive and had a radar with an 80nm range and carried 4 heat seeking ASRAMM (11nm) and 2 AMRAAM (45nm) air to air missiles… it was a fighter.

Now the much vaunted GR7/9 thingy… down hill with a following wind they can do 550knots… hmmm…

They also have no radar and only carry to ASRAAM's so they can only self defend themselves and can't go playing at fighters
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 1:28:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
We still have Harrier GR7's & 9's as a stop gap in joint Navy/RAF unit until the arrival of the Lockheed Martin F35 VSTOL thing.

I think the AV8's used by the USMC were seriously reworked, bigger and better wings, avionics upgrades and so on, but yes they are loud, particularly when they sneak up behind you and pass close enough to make your cabin windows rattle ...!



They are only a 'stop gap' in a Labour politicians wet dream.

The FRS2 could do 650kts and was supersonic in a dive and had a radar with an 80nm range and carried 4 heat seeking ASRAMM (11nm) and 2 AMRAAM (45nm) air to air missiles… it was a fighter.

Now the much vaunted GR7/9 thingy… down hill with a following wind they can do 550knots… hmmm…

They also have no radar and only carry to ASRAAM's so they can only self defend themselves and can't go playing at fighters


I didn't say they were a good stop gap, perhaps more of a finger in the dyke (can I say that?)
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 1:32:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/19/2007 1:54:41 PM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
We still have Harrier GR7's & 9's as a stop gap in joint Navy/RAF unit until the arrival of the Lockheed Martin F35 VSTOL thing.

I think the AV8's used by the USMC were seriously reworked, bigger and better wings, avionics upgrades and so on, but yes they are loud, particularly when they sneak up behind you and pass close enough to make your cabin windows rattle ...!



They are only a 'stop gap' in a Labour politicians wet dream.

The FRS2 could do 650kts and was supersonic in a dive and had a radar with an 80nm range and carried 4 heat seeking ASRAMM (11nm) and 2 AMRAAM (45nm) air to air missiles… it was a fighter.

Now the much vaunted GR7/9 thingy… down hill with a following wind they can do 550knots… hmmm…

They also have no radar and only carry to ASRAAM's so they can only self defend themselves and can't go playing at fighters


I didn't say they were a good stop gap, perhaps more of a finger in the dyke (can I say that?)



They are not even a finger in the dyke… they exist purely to give Crab Air an opportunity to get in some stick time in a warzone, (and Crab Air are fucking useless BTW, they were so piss poor they had to send 800 NAS out to AStan last year to give CAS to the Booties, Crab AIr kept scoring own goals or destroying harmless bushes),
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 1:52:11 PM EST
Not harmless mate:

Link Posted: 6/19/2007 10:30:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
We still have Harrier GR7's & 9's as a stop gap in joint Navy/RAF unit until the arrival of the Lockheed Martin F35 VSTOL thing.

I think the AV8's used by the USMC were seriously reworked, bigger and better wings, avionics upgrades and so on, but yes they are loud, particularly when they sneak up behind you and pass close enough to make your cabin windows rattle ...!



They are only a 'stop gap' in a Labour politicians wet dream.

The FRS2 could do 650kts and was supersonic in a dive and had a radar with an 80nm range and carried 4 heat seeking ASRAMM (11nm) and 2 AMRAAM (45nm) air to air missiles… it was a fighter.

Now the much vaunted GR7/9 thingy… down hill with a following wind they can do 550knots… hmmm…

They also have no radar and only carry to ASRAAM's so they can only self defend themselves and can't go playing at fighters


I didn't say they were a good stop gap, perhaps more of a finger in the dyke (can I say that?)



They are not even a finger in the dyke… they exist purely to give Crab Air an opportunity to get in some stick time in a warzone, (and Crab Air are fucking useless BTW, they were so piss poor they had to send 800 NAS out to AStan last year to give CAS to the Booties, Crab AIr kept scoring own goals or destroying harmless bushes),


Dream on Navy Boy
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 11:54:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By ACR26:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
We still have Harrier GR7's & 9's as a stop gap in joint Navy/RAF unit until the arrival of the Lockheed Martin F35 VSTOL thing.

I think the AV8's used by the USMC were seriously reworked, bigger and better wings, avionics upgrades and so on, but yes they are loud, particularly when they sneak up behind you and pass close enough to make your cabin windows rattle ...!



They are only a 'stop gap' in a Labour politicians wet dream.

The FRS2 could do 650kts and was supersonic in a dive and had a radar with an 80nm range and carried 4 heat seeking ASRAMM (11nm) and 2 AMRAAM (45nm) air to air missiles… it was a fighter.

Now the much vaunted GR7/9 thingy… down hill with a following wind they can do 550knots… hmmm…

They also have no radar and only carry to ASRAAM's so they can only self defend themselves and can't go playing at fighters


I didn't say they were a good stop gap, perhaps more of a finger in the dyke (can I say that?)



They are not even a finger in the dyke… they exist purely to give Crab Air an opportunity to get in some stick time in a warzone, (and Crab Air are fucking useless BTW, they were so piss poor they had to send 800 NAS out to AStan last year to give CAS to the Booties, Crab AIr kept scoring own goals or destroying harmless bushes),


Dream on Navy Boy


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/22/uafghan.xml

Booties prefer US CAS over RAF… says something!
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 1:58:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By ACR26:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
We still have Harrier GR7's & 9's as a stop gap in joint Navy/RAF unit until the arrival of the Lockheed Martin F35 VSTOL thing.

I think the AV8's used by the USMC were seriously reworked, bigger and better wings, avionics upgrades and so on, but yes they are loud, particularly when they sneak up behind you and pass close enough to make your cabin windows rattle ...!



They are only a 'stop gap' in a Labour politicians wet dream.

The FRS2 could do 650kts and was supersonic in a dive and had a radar with an 80nm range and carried 4 heat seeking ASRAMM (11nm) and 2 AMRAAM (45nm) air to air missiles… it was a fighter.

Now the much vaunted GR7/9 thingy… down hill with a following wind they can do 550knots… hmmm…

They also have no radar and only carry to ASRAAM's so they can only self defend themselves and can't go playing at fighters


I didn't say they were a good stop gap, perhaps more of a finger in the dyke (can I say that?)



They are not even a finger in the dyke… they exist purely to give Crab Air an opportunity to get in some stick time in a warzone, (and Crab Air are fucking useless BTW, they were so piss poor they had to send 800 NAS out to AStan last year to give CAS to the Booties, Crab AIr kept scoring own goals or destroying harmless bushes),


Dream on Navy Boy


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/22/uafghan.xml

Booties prefer US CAS over RAF… says something!


Cos everything in the papers is true.....

Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:10:01 AM EST
Well it's taken you long enough to get here, cloud too low?, less than 10nm vis? bit windy?...



Actually I wasn't maligning the Crabs. I just think it was wrong to get rid of the SHARs before a proper replacemant was available, naff all to do with the Crabs, except of course their totally outrageous claim that they are/were able to provide air cover to the fleet at sea. Never have done and never will do.
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:14:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By ACR26:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By ACR26:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/22/uafghan.xml

Booties prefer US CAS over RAF… says something!


Cos everything in the papers is true.....




Nope, just takiing note of what Booties back from AStan tell me…
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:19:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By ACR26:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By ACR26:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/22/uafghan.xml

Booties prefer US CAS over RAF… says something!


Cos everything in the papers is true.....




Nope, just takiing note of what Booties back from AStan tell me…


Yes of course you are......
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:19:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
Well it's taken you long enough to get here, cloud too low?, less than 10nm vis? bit windy?...



Actually I wasn't maligning the Crabs. I just think it was wrong to get rid of the SHARs before a proper replacemant was available, naff all to do with the Crabs, except of course their totally outrageous claim that they are/were able to provide air cover to the fleet at sea. Never have done and never will do.



Indeed, there was the famous map that showed Australia 400 miles to the West to prove their case they could provide air cover in the Indian Ocean to support their case for getting rid of the RN carriers…

And lets not forget…

Navy Pilots drop their bombs 'armed', (always a good plan), who was it who dropped a stick of 21 1,000lb bombs on Port Stanley 'safe'…
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:29:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
Well it's taken you long enough to get here, cloud too low?, less than 10nm vis? bit windy?...



Actually I wasn't maligning the Crabs. I just think it was wrong to get rid of the SHARs before a proper replacemant was available, naff all to do with the Crabs, except of course their totally outrageous claim that they are/were able to provide air cover to the fleet at sea. Never have done and never will do.



Indeed, there was the famous map that showed Australia 400 miles to the West to prove their case they could provide air cover in the Indian Ocean to support their case for getting rid of the RN carriers…

And lets not forget…

Navy Pilots drop their bombs 'armed', (always a good plan), who was it who dropped a stick of 21 1,000lb bombs on Port Stanley 'safe'…


Slow day in the office then....
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:30:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/20/2007 2:31:11 AM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By ACR26:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
Well it's taken you long enough to get here, cloud too low?, less than 10nm vis? bit windy?...



Actually I wasn't maligning the Crabs. I just think it was wrong to get rid of the SHARs before a proper replacemant was available, naff all to do with the Crabs, except of course their totally outrageous claim that they are/were able to provide air cover to the fleet at sea. Never have done and never will do.



Indeed, there was the famous map that showed Australia 400 miles to the West to prove their case they could provide air cover in the Indian Ocean to support their case for getting rid of the RN carriers…

And lets not forget…

Navy Pilots drop their bombs 'armed', (always a good plan), who was it who dropped a stick of 21 1,000lb bombs on Port Stanley 'safe'…


Slow day in the office then....



Pretty much… tea & stickys day
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:38:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/20/2007 2:39:45 AM EST by vito113]
They should transfer all the fighters back to Navy (FAA - the original fighter force)… after all, it's been over 50 years since the RAF got an air to air kill… and that was against gypos.

Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:40:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By ACR26:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
Well it's taken you long enough to get here, cloud too low?, less than 10nm vis? bit windy?...



Actually I wasn't maligning the Crabs. I just think it was wrong to get rid of the SHARs before a proper replacemant was available, naff all to do with the Crabs, except of course their totally outrageous claim that they are/were able to provide air cover to the fleet at sea. Never have done and never will do.



Indeed, there was the famous map that showed Australia 400 miles to the West to prove their case they could provide air cover in the Indian Ocean to support their case for getting rid of the RN carriers…

And lets not forget…

Navy Pilots drop their bombs 'armed', (always a good plan), who was it who dropped a stick of 21 1,000lb bombs on Port Stanley 'safe'…


Slow day in the office then....



Pretty much… tea & stickys day


You could always sing a song....

To the tune of 'What shall we do with a drunken sailor'

What shall we do with the captured sailors?
What shall we do with the captured sailors?
What shall we do with the captured sailors?
Ear-lye in the morning

Ooh'ray and Faye is gopping
Ooh'ray and Faye is gopping
Ooh'ray and Faye is gopping
Ear-lye in the morning

Take away his ipod and make him blubber
Take away his ipod and make him blubber
Take away his ipod and make him blubber
Ear-lye in the morning

Put him in a suit and make him smile
Put him in a suit and make him smile
Put him in a suit and make him smile
Ear-lye in the morning

Give 'em forty grand and hear them snivel
Give 'em forty grand and hear them snivel
Give 'em forty grand and hear them snivel
Ear-lye in the morning

Give him an alcopop and watch him dribble
Give him an alcopop and watch him dribble
Give him an alcopop and watch him dribble
Ear-lye in the morning

Send the ugly bint right back to tehran
Send the ugly bint right back to tehran
Send the ugly bint right back to tehran
Ear-lye in the morning

Put them on the telly smoking ciggies
Put them on the telly smoking ciggies
Put them on the telly smoking ciggies
Ear-lye in the morning
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:50:47 AM EST
..and I was just about to say something nice about the RAF. Now it's completely gone out of my head.

For what it's worth I thought the whole affair was pretty piss poor too. Perhaps if they'd had some of that mythical RAF air cover......................................................
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 2:59:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
..and I was just about to say something nice about the RAF. Now it's completely gone out of my head.

For what it's worth I thought the whole affair was pretty piss poor too. Perhaps if they'd had some of that mythical RAF air cover......................................................


They had their own Lynx!!!!!
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 3:16:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/20/2007 3:36:08 AM EST by IcarusY625]

Originally Posted By ACR26:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
..and I was just about to say something nice about the RAF. Now it's completely gone out of my head.

For what it's worth I thought the whole affair was pretty piss poor too. Perhaps if they'd had some of that mythical RAF air cover......................................................


They had their own Lynx!!!!!


Yes they did, and to the outside observer(if you'll pardon the pun), it appears that they(the command) fucked up. I don't have all the details so I don't know and I'm not defending or blaming them, but I think that might be a layman's view. I was referring back to the RAF claim that they could protect the Fleet at sea...where was the CAP? Especially as there is far less Fleet than there used to be, it might be nice if the Crabs could go some way towards the committment they made.

Also for the record, my entire Royal Navy career spanned a whole two years before we had a difference of opinion, so I do not claim to be an expert, just enough knowledge to be dangerous


..and we don't blame you personally. The Fishead branch of the Navy was just as much to blame for failing to recognise the value of indigenous air support.
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 3:46:26 AM EST
O.K.

I've read the whole post and i havn't got a clue what anyones on about

Who's got crabs, The RAF Or the Navy

Steve ( Lost in chopper speak )
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 3:50:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By clayo:
O.K.

I've read the whole post and i havn't got a clue what anyones on about

Who's got crabs, The RAF Or the Navy

Steve ( Lost in chopper speak )



The RAF are the Crabs

The Royal Navy has no Crabs, because the Crabs promised to fly round in circles over the Royal Navy whenever they ventured further than the Isle of Wight, but the Crabs lied.
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 4:05:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:

Originally Posted By ACR26:

Originally Posted By IcarusY625:
..and I was just about to say something nice about the RAF. Now it's completely gone out of my head.

For what it's worth I thought the whole affair was pretty piss poor too. Perhaps if they'd had some of that mythical RAF air cover......................................................


They had their own Lynx!!!!!


Yes they did, and to the outside observer(if you'll pardon the pun), it appears that they(the command) fucked up. I don't have all the details so I don't know and I'm not defending or blaming them, but I think that might be a layman's view.



The 'official word'… Sponsored by Dulux

www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/DefenceSecretaryPledgesToImplementNavyOperati­onsAndMediahandlingReviews.htm
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 4:24:42 AM EST
If it starts going wrong in the water or you just need to get out quick, This is deffo the way to get troops into a helicopter

Chopper Extraction

Cool

Steve
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 7:29:05 AM EST
Impressive stuff.
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 7:43:31 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By vito113:
They should transfer all the fighters back to Navy (FAA - the original fighter force)… after all, it's been over 50 years since the RAF got an air to air kill… and that was against gypos.

Not quite, only 24 years, in 1983 over Germany a Phantom launched a sidewinder missile at a Jaguar and bought it down by removing the back end, the pilot ejected ok after a timely warning. The Phantom crew were on a training sortie but were given a fully armed mighty F4 that had been on QRA duties. Our Services do what they do with what they have. After all it's not like the RAF put in a commercial bid to do air defence for the Fleet, that's just a thinly veiled money saving scheme with the practicalities of it dumped on them. The different roles of RN & RAF Harriers complimented each other on ops and exercise. The MOD, "saving pennies to waste pounds", as always.
Link Posted: 6/20/2007 10:15:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/20/2007 10:17:01 AM EST by IcarusY625]

Originally Posted By PhixerII:

Originally Posted By vito113:
They should transfer all the fighters back to Navy (FAA - the original fighter force)… after all, it's been over 50 years since the RAF got an air to air kill… and that was against gypos.



Not quite, only 24 years, in 1983 over Germany a Phantom launched a sidewinder missile at a Jaguar and bought it down by removing the back end, the pilot ejected ok after a timely warning. The Phantom crew were on a training sortie but were given a fully armed mighty F4 that had been on QRA duties. Our Services do what they do with what they have. After all it's not like the RAF put in a commercial bid to do air defence for the Fleet, that's just a thinly veiled money saving scheme with the practicalities of it dumped on them. The different roles of RN & RAF Harriers complimented each other on ops and exercise. The MOD, "saving pennies to waste pounds", as always.


...and don't forget they've hacked a fair few civilian aircraft ouf of the sky over the years. True they were over UK territory, so perhaps they were feeling a bit over protective. They've even tried to kill me and my colleagues three times, once whilst I was sitting in one of their aeroplanes

..but we are seriously off topic now so if you want to hear more we'll have to take it elsewhere...
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