Well, I looked forever to try and find the Nike Ohio State reversible knit hat the Buckeyes have been wearing to give to my Dad for X-Mas, and for a month I have not been able to find one. Now I know why; They all got bought up and listed on eBay! Damn things were $20 in the stores, and they're going for twice that or more on eBay. I really hate the gray market eBay has created, between trying to buy wares or event tickets, it really brings out the worst in people.

I really want to get this for my Dad (the one thing I KNOW he wanted) but I'll feel pretty dirty buying into this game.

+1 for the free market and entrepreneurship.

Free market and entrepreneurship? You're comparing legitimate businesses to these folks who go out and buy up things from the normal market, thereby creating an even higher demand and inflated pricing? Imagine that type of "free market" entrepreneurship applied to other facets of our daily lives and I doubt you'd be so quick to defend this gray market practice.

Chuck, don't lecture me about standard business practices or the fact buyers have the ultimate say in price. Your peanut gallery argument is really typical for this type of setting and is one more example of the online courage some people display. A legitimate business charges more than they pay the distributor to pay for business related expenses, such as payroll, store front/real estate, and utilities. The argument for free market would apply in this case to places that are able to charge less than retail stores because of their business model, not people buying up product from the retailer with the intent of selling it for a largely inflated price.  

Also, someone is forcing me to pay $40 for a $20 hat if they buy up as much inventory as they can and sell it on the gray market. They may not be forcing me to buy the hat, but they are forcing me to pay a price that is 50% to over 100% of the retail price.

My anger from this practice stems from the fact that for over a month I've been trying to find one of these damn hats at the local stores and have not been able to find one, and one of the reasons is because of these eBayers. I can see from their profiles that they're local, and when they've got five or ten of these hats listed it is painfully apparent that they're a big reason I haven't been able to find one.

There is no way I can buy your arguments that the creation of secondary markets for goods in high demand is wrong.

I'll just leave it at because you obviously have some personal emotions wrapped up in this and I am looking at it as a disinterested third party.

A legitimate business is one that operates within the boundaries of the law.  The fact that they may not have any overhead or operating expenses is besides the point.

I'm an occasional ebay buyer, but I never have interest in "high demand" items like what you're describing.  Patience or forethought always wins over gimmie it now, and the high demand items from ebay sellers cater to the gimme it now crowd.  They also cater to the hard-to-find-things crowd, which is the group I'd most likely fit in.

Quoted: There is no way I can buy your arguments that the creation of secondary markets for goods in high demand is wrong. I'll just leave it at because you obviously have some personal emotions wrapped up in this and I am looking at it as a disinterested third party. A legitimate business is one that operates within the boundaries of the law.  The fact that they may not have any overhead or operating expenses is besides the point.

I am certain that they are not paying any taxes on their income, which would put them outside the boundaries of the law. I know that sounds like a petty answer, but it is true.

The creation of secondary markets for high demand items would be good if it benefited the market, which it doesn't in this case. It removes the item from the marketplace for the average consumer, and they are forced to find it through some alternate channel, at a substantially inflated price. Imagine if there was a true shortage of gas and some "entrepreneurs" were able to hit the gas stations and buy up the majority of the gas, and then sell it at even higher prices than the stations. Same business situation, and I doubt you'd agree that would be right.

I buy and sell on eBay as well, but I don't try to do it as a business enterprise, unlike these individuals.

I won't argue the point that there is a level of personal emotion in my original post. And to answer the other reply, I try and stay clear of the "must have" items until the craze is gone. My anger again wasn't that I can't get something that I can't live without, the anger stems from spending a lot of legwork looking for this thing to get my Dad for X-mas, only to find out a big reason I can't find them is because of these gray market people. I have called various stores today trying to locate one, and in the conversation the salespeople say they have had people buying these up in bulk, and they're not surprised they're on eBay now.

Personally, I'm waiting until after X-mas to buy one now. I'm sure my Dad will be just as happy getting the hat, and I won't have to buy into this game on eBay.

Personally I don't have a problem with them. I'm not bothered by ticket scalpers, either. If you want what they are selling, you'll pay their price. Pretty simple.

OR, you will buy whatever it is before they buy it, and then laugh at the suckers that are paying twice as much for the same item.

And don't tell me you wouldn't, either. If you had gotten one of these knit whatevers before they were all gone, you'd be yucking it up over the fools that are paying $40+ for one of them.

The existence of scalpers just proves that capitalism works.

It's a hell of a lot better than the alternative, which is SOCIALISM. And that's not something any sane, rational person should want.

Find something else for Christmas, and when the item is available again for the regular price, get one and give it to him as either a late Christmas present, or for his birthday.

Quoted: And don't tell me you wouldn't, either. If you had gotten one of these knit whatevers before they were all gone, you'd be yucking it up over the fools that are paying $40+ for one of them. The existence of scalpers just proves that capitalism works.

Actually no, I wouldn't. When I see things like this I find it really sad. The only time I get a kick out of it is when I see these fools not being able to offload the wares or tickets they bought.

And I don't see that scalpers are an indication of good health for our economic system.

Quoted: I am certain that they are not paying any taxes on their income, which would put them outside the boundaries of the law. I buy and sell on eBay as well, but I don't try to do it as a business enterprise, unlike these individuals.

Do you report any income you make off eBay for tax purposes?  If you do, you are one of the very, very few.

And whoever said that eBay was created solely for casual sellers?

Quoted: The creation of secondary markets for high demand items would be good if it benefited the market, which it doesn't in this case.

Businesses are created to benefit the holders of capital, not the market itself.  If others benefit from a business' creation, that is a secondary and accidental occurance.  Anything else is socialism.

Quoted: Imagine if there was a true shortage of gas and some "entrepreneurs" were able to hit the gas stations and buy up the majority of the gas, and then sell it at even higher prices than the stations. Same business situation, and I doubt you'd agree that would be right.

Not the same business situation, as there are laws that prevent profiteering from certain key commodities.  Ballcaps are not one of those commodities.

Oh, there are laws to prevent that; Guess that's a -1 for free market. And yes, it is the same business situation. If there were no laws in place to prevent it, according to your definitions it would simply be an exercise of free market economics and good for those fine folks.

And you seemed to miss the point about taxes, or you found it inconvenient to your response. I'm not selling things on eBay as a business venture, which these people obviously are. It's hard to categorize these people as legitimate businesses for more reasons than that, but that in itself should suffice.

No one said eBay was created for casual sellers; There are plenty of eBay stores and individuals that sell goods through eBay as a means to make money. The individuals I'm talking about are using eBay as a tool to more effectively scalp merchandise and in effect make it both harder and more expensive for consumers to get these items.

Anyways, I can see that the point has been missed and we're now going to quibble over definitions and principles of economics. I really don't feel like having a back and forth on the benefits of laissez-faire capitalism, so you can have the floor on that. Whether scalping benefits or is a blight on the free market, you can make your decision. I personally hate it, have made that plainly apparent throughout this thread, and that's about it.

Enjoy!

Isnt it worth 20 bucks to you just to save the aggrevation&complaining about it.Just figure out all the words you typed on the subject divided into the 20 dollar premium on the product.What does it figure out to 1 or 2 cents a word.Is not your time more valuable than that?
 I know you are going to say its the point but shit man its 20 dollars!About the cost of an FNC manual.....Unless 20 bucks is too much for an FNC manual and you just download it print it and staple it together!See I just saved you 20 now you can afford the hat or whatever it is!!

If I had caught it early on enough, I may have given you the difference just to keep this thread from surfacing.

I have a secondary income via Ebay and other 'capitalist' auction fronts as a middle-man for liquidation and consignment items. I pay the appropriate taxes. I have 100% feedback. I like it.

It's what America is about. You could always start knitting your own caps.

The Grinch Who Scalped Christmas

I read this a while ago, and I think the opening paragraph says it all.

Quoted: It's what America is about. You could always start knitting your own caps.

I kinda hope America isn't all about fucking people over; I know it happens, but I don't think it should be said it's what the country is all about. And that's a real profound suggestion to start knitting caps, that would have solved this whole issue, right? Great to see you could add something worthwhile.

And Snyd, no, it's not worth the $20+ over retail to simply save myself the aggravation, because I'm not buying into this crap, and I was already aggravated.

request