Posted: 10/10/2005 8:21:54 AM EDT
If I were to buy a handgun face to face in NY, what legal measures would I have to take? Must I register it with the police so its on my Permit? Does it have to go through an FFL? I really don't know anything about handgun sales, and want to make sure I don't do anything wrong. Thanks.
All counties are different, but my understanding is a pistol MUST be registered on your license to be legally possessed. All unregistered pistol sales are illegal. If you want to be legal, best to call your county pistol permit office.
Private transfers of handguns are permitted in NYS between NYS pistol licensees but as sp10 indicated every county in NY has their own rules and procedure which must be followed. The handgun does not need to be transferred by a NY FFL unless your county requires it. I am not aware of any county with that specific requirement though.
From the NYSP FAQ:
FAQs: Individual sale or purchase
Q - What are the necessary steps involved in the sale of a handgun from one licensee to another?
In instances where a handgun is being sold from one licensee to another, the receiving licensee must obtain authorization from his/her licensing officer in the form of an amendment to their permit prior to acquiring the handgun.
A Purchase Coupon detailing the specific weapon to be purchased should be completed by the licensing authority prior to the sale and be given to the licensee disposing of the gun as proof of lawful disposition.
Note: The licensee selling the gun should complete an amendment to his/her pistol permit disposing of the weapon following the transaction.
Right - I've done this before and it is just like going through a dealer:
The seller provides the pistol info, and a copy of their permit dosn't hurt either as well as a bill of sale.
The buyer takes all of that to their licencing authority, applies for purchase document.
Seller can release pistol upon receipt of purchase document, then takes PD to their licensing agency to have gun removed from their permit.
PITA but not impossible and saves on dealer fees.
At one point my county required a notarized bill of sale to be presented upon amending your permit to obtain the coupon for private sales. One more hurdle for ownership. Not sure if they still require this.
Here in Monroe Co. the buyer and seller are required to go to the county clerks office to "swap" info and remove it from one licence and place it on another.
It never ceases to amaze me what some of these counties dream up. There is no legal requirement that both licensees reside in the same county.
You should hear and see the stink they put up for out of state sales. Sold on the internet? The internet !? Sir you sold a handgun over the internet? Do you know that you are still responsible for that gun and whatever the baby killing dope fiend you just may have sold it to does with it?
Really? thats funny mam, per the Federal governments rules via the ATF, that pistol will become his property upon the completion and approval of ATF Form 4473? You know the yellow form that his FFL dealer will provide for him. You know the FFL who's license i have a copy of right here? Illegal!. We are going to report you to comrade Walsh!
What a dog and pony show Onondaga County is. After i realized what a joke the whole process was in trading or selling a pistol Person to Person, i wont do it anymore. I bite the bullet, get fucked with a smile and sell it to one of the 2 "dealers" in the area.
I know that SP10 will echo my sentiments here. All it takes is one rouge anti-gun county official (Judge in our case) to set back the process decades and decades.
Yeah, I shed a crocodile tear when they recently planted that SOB. Damned shame
I live in Monroe, FTF transfers for handguns sound painful...but I have a while.
put my PP paperwork, a week ago (how long are we waiting in monroe these days?)
can pistols reside on multiple permits, IE husband/wife or father/son etc?
Yes, but in the land of
In Niagara county, my dad and I used to cross register our handguns. Now they don't let you saying its for you own protection because if one party ends up having their permit revoked then all handguns on that permit must be turned in.
FTF sale is easy here and was easy last time I sold one to a Erie county resident. They give us a coupon in advance to save a trip back to the seller. Buy the weapon, give seller the coupon then need to take the info for the weapon to the pistol permit clerk to register it and get a new coupon.
Typical make it up BS. Your guns have to be "disposed of" in a manner prescribed by law and not necessarily "turned in". Disposed of means to another licensee or NYS FFL etc. as well as to a LEA for destruction. If they're already registered on someone else’s license I don't see what the issue is. Obviously if they were seized as evidence that would be another matter.
Niagara county clerk has a safe full of handguns being held. Many are from people bringing them in from out of state who didn't transfer them from an out of state FFL to a NY FFL. Some from spouses who found it hidden away after the husbasnd died.
A pistol team member was charged with DWI. They confiscated his handguns and held them until his charges were settled. It sounded like he had no option to sell them or transfer them to anyone else.
This is the problem with a lot of things in NY or most places for that matter. Every Town/County etc. makes their own rules. Sometimes you get lucky and live in a less restrictive area.
The clerk did assure me that a surviving spouse would be given some time to sell or dispose of the handguns should the permit holder die.
A pistol license division of a county LEA must be in compliance with the firearm disposition provisions of NYS law. In this regard they cannot just do anything they want to because they "feel" like it.
NYSP Pistol Permits FAQs
Q - What happens to lawfully possessed firearms belonging to a licensee who has died?
The person designated as the executor or administrator of the deceased's estate may lawfully possess the firearms in question for a period of up to 15 days for the sole purpose of lawfully disposing of the firearms.
If this cannot be accomplished within the 15-day time frame, the weapons must be surrendered to a law enforcement agency who would then hold the weapons for safe keeping for a period not to exceed 2 years during which time the weapons may still be disposed of.
If the weapons are not disposed of within that time period, they will be classified as nuisance properties and destroyed.
§ 265.20 Exemptions.
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11,
265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:
1. Possession of any of the weapons, instruments, appliances or
substances specified in sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05
and 270.05 by the following:
(f) A person voluntarily surrendering such weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance, provided that such surrender shall be made to
the superintendent of the division of state police or a member thereof
designated by such superintendent, or to the sheriff of the county in
which such person resides, or in the county of Nassau or in the towns of
Babylon, Brookhaven, Huntington, Islip and Smithtown in the county of
Suffolk to the commissioner of police or a member of the police
department thereof designated by such commissioner, or if such person
resides in a city, town other than one named in this subparagraph, or
village to the police commissioner or head of the police force or
department thereof or to a member of the force or department designated
by such commissioner or head; and provided, further, that the same shall
be surrendered by such person in accordance with such terms and
conditions as may be established by such superintendent, sheriff, police
force or department. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as
granting immunity from prosecution for any crime or offense except that
of unlawful possession of such weapons, instruments, appliances or
substances surrendered as herein provided. A person who possesses any
such weapon, instrument, appliance or substance as an executor or
administrator or any other lawful possessor of such property of a
decedent may continue to possess such property for a period not over
fifteen days. If such property is not lawfully disposed of within such
period the possessor shall deliver it to an appropriate official
described in this paragraph or such property may be delivered to the
superintendent of state police. Such officer shall hold it and shall
thereafter deliver it on the written request of such executor,
administrator or other lawful possessor of such property to a named
person, provided such named person is licensed to or is otherwise
lawfully permitted to possess the same. If no request to deliver the
property is received by such official within two years of the delivery
of such property, such official shall dispose of it in accordance with
the provisions of section 400.05 of this chapter.
2. Possession of a machine-gun, large capacity ammunition feeding
device, firearm, switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic
knife, billy or blackjack by a warden, superintendent, headkeeper or
deputy of a state prison, penitentiary, workhouse, county jail or other
institution for the detention of persons convicted or accused of crime
or detained as witnesses in criminal cases, in pursuit of official duty
or when duly authorized by regulation or order to possess the same.
§ 400.05 Disposition of weapons and dangerous instruments, appliances
6. A firearm which is surrendered or voluntarily delivered pursuant to
section 265.20 of this chapter and which has not been declared a
nuisance pursuant to subdivision one of this section, shall be retained
by the official to whom it was delivered for a period not to exceed one
year. Prior to the expiration of such time period, the person who
surrendered such firearm or firearms, shall have the right to arrange
for the sale, or transfer, of such weapons to a dealer in firearms
licensed in accordance with this chapter or for the transfer of such
weapons to himself provided that a license therefor has been issued in
accordance with this chapter. If no such disposition is made within the
time provided, the weapon, or weapons concerned shall be declared a
nuisance and shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions of
Out here you get a form from Nassau County Police fill it out with buyer and your info. Have a bill of sale. Bring the gun along with the form to the NCPD and have it out on your permit....
Either case I am sure where you live it needs to be registered