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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/9/2006 7:47:21 AM EDT
Why are some of the gun ranges that I read about through the link above saying no to FMJ ammo? Are these indoor ranges where it could possibly do damage to the backstop? I would think you would need to have a backstop good enough to stop anything without damaging itself if you had an indoor range, but I dont think some of these are indoor ranges since they claim to have 100yd rifle ranges. Iam accustomed to shooting into a dam on private property, so my shooting range etiquette isnt up to par.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:25:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 8:26:35 AM EDT by MauserMark]
generally it has to do with the danger of ricochet.

I think we've all been hit at least once by a led shard.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:49:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 9:10:13 AM EDT by plarkinjr]
I know of one indoor range that requires FMJ - to minimize lead vaporization (so they say). Most indoor ranges do a magnet check and prohibit steel in the projectiles (due to damage to gear and possible sparking). These I can live with (Indoors gets a little more slack).

The "No FMJ" thing at outdoor ranges is IMHO either the result of an uninformed insurance underwriter, or (perhaps in some cases) a cop-out by a poorly managed range.... in the latter case, I have HEARD that a berm filled with bullets tends to allow FMJs to ricochet. But, I suspect that SPs and HPs, given the same circumstances are equally (or at least almost) likely to riccochet.

Until I see some scientific evidence to prove FMJ is a greater riccochet risk than non-FMJ [ETA: (in a properly constructed range environment, by a shooter practicing good sense)], I'm just chalking those ranges that prohibit FMJ as "lame", and don't go there (even if I going to fire SP or HP, or shotgun, or pistols).

You didnt ask for my opinion, but I gave it..... take it for what its worth.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:48:34 AM EDT
Outdoor ranges who wont allow FMJ are against military style weapons. I asume this is near Dallas?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:57:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Outdoor ranges who wont allow FMJ are against military style weapons. I asume this is near Dallas?



You are correct. Two I know of, one in Dallas proper, one in a far-north-dallas rural 'burb. I think the one in Garland is too.

I know the one in dallas is anti-black-rifle (or was when I went there last - approx 8 yrs ago).
Never bothered going to the others.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:42:41 PM EDT
Garland Public Shooting Range is anti FMJ on the rifle range.
They are however Black Rifle friendly. I'm there just about every week.

Flaco
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:43:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Flaco:
Garland Public Shooting Range is anti FMJ on the rifle range.
They are however Black Rifle friendly. I'm there just about every week.

Flaco




FMJ is prone to ricochets, Ive seen it firsthand. I did a test at TomBean where I stot a very small group into
the ground and it bounced up into the target. That was with 55gr FMJ 223, this all started when a employee
of mine said the 223 rounds where good for bouncing on the floor to hit your target.

It worked, it wasnt like a trick shot but you know you could do some damage if you needed to do it.

Also Flaco, if you are not doing anything on the 18th of March you should come to TomBean because we are having a small group shooting.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:22:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 9:23:17 PM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By rogue007:

Originally Posted By Flaco:
Garland Public Shooting Range is anti FMJ on the rifle range.
They are however Black Rifle friendly. I'm there just about every week.

Flaco




FMJ is prone to ricochets, Ive seen it firsthand. I did a test at TomBean where I stot a very small group into
the ground and it bounced up into the target. That was with 55gr FMJ 223, this all started when a employee
of mine said the 223 rounds where good for bouncing on the floor to hit your target.

It worked, it wasnt like a trick shot but you know you could do some damage if you needed to do it.

Also Flaco, if you are not doing anything on the 18th of March you should come to TomBean because we are having a small group shooting.



And you did this with hollw point and ballistic tip and the rounds did not bounce? Of course they still bounced...
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 1:54:55 AM EDT
Whether or not they bounced or richoceted, it seems to me if your going to have a shooting range, you should have whatever it takes to be compatible to anything. That seems like a pre-requisite for a shooting range.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:12:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rogue007:
FMJ is prone to ricochets, Ive seen it firsthand. I did a test at TomBean where I stot a very small group into
the ground and it bounced up into the target. That was with 55gr FMJ 223, this all started when a employee
of mine said the 223 rounds where good for bouncing on the floor to hit your target.

It worked, it wasnt like a trick shot but you know you could do some damage if you needed to do it.

Also Flaco, if you are not doing anything on the 18th of March you should come to TomBean because we are having a small group shooting.



Your tests really doesnt mean anything. You must compare it, with scientific controls in place, with many other types of ammo and bullet designs, to see if FMJ is *more* prone to ricochet than other bullet designs.

You should *never* fire into the ground at ANY range. This is almost a guarantee that you will bounce rounds over the berm.

And my experience has been, that berms without a cap built above them, send 10 to 20% of all projectiles up and over.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:13:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By plarkinjr:
The "No FMJ" thing at outdoor ranges is IMHO either the result of an uninformed insurance underwriter,



This is what has been explained to me.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:14:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Outdoor ranges who wont allow FMJ are against military style weapons. I asume this is near Dallas?



That hasnt been my experience. Backwoods traps is very black rifle friendly... their insurance provider is the reason given for not allowing FMJ.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:24:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 5:34:15 AM EDT by plarkinjr]

Originally Posted By rogue007:
FMJ is prone to ricochets, Ive seen it firsthand. I did a test at TomBean where I stot a very small group into
the ground and it bounced up into the target. That was with 55gr FMJ 223, this all started when a employee
of mine said the 223 rounds where good for bouncing on the floor to hit your target.

It worked, it wasnt like a trick shot but you know you could do some damage if you needed to do it.



Did you also try the same thing with HPs or SPs? If not, then it was not a very good experiment for showing that FMJs ricochet more than non-FMJs.

[ETA: Doh! Seems DevL and FAL beat me to it.... I guess I should read entire thread before following up.]
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