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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/26/2005 12:13:59 PM EDT
Being a CA resident and builing myself an AR is looking to be more an more difficult. Well, leaving behind my whining for moment, and addressing reality...

Which is a better lower receiver, the FAB10 or the Vulcan. I've heard bad things on this forum about Vulcan, but most of them apply to fully assembled Vulcan rifles, not the lower itself. To be honest, the FAB10 worries me. The mag well is completely blocked off, whereas the mag in the Vulcan is simple "pinned." I like the idea of being able to replace the mag should it wear out. It doesn't appear that it is very easy to do so in the FAB10. Anybody have any opinions/details on this matter? I'm going to need one of these two receivers, so which of the two evils should I opt for?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:26:40 PM EDT
I own both and wrote a REVIEW of both at Calguns while back.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:38:24 PM EDT
Thanks CG, that's exactly what I was looking for. Question about the Vulcan: You said the magazine is easy to replace. Vulcan describes the mag as being "pinned." I assume to replace the mag, you have to UN-pin the old mag, replace it, and re-pin it. Does this mean that if I leave CA, I can un-pin the legal mag, and temporarily use a larger, detachable mag? (outside CA, of course )
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 12:44:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fedge:
Being a CA resident and builing myself an AR is looking to be more an more difficult.



AR building hard?....NAAAHH! It has to be the easiest weapon built there is, IMO. If you can handle an erector set your good to go. You will probably need a few specailized tool, but it's not like building an AK....

Here's a how-to on replacing the Vulcan's mag should it crap out on you. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=205407

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:14:02 PM EDT
delta88:

AR building hard?....NAAAHH! It has to be the easiest weapon built there is, IMO. If you can handle an erector set your good to go. You will probably need a few specailized tool, but it's not like building an AK....


I meant LEGALLY. I'm not worried about actually building, just building it to conform with CA law. Anyhow, that link to replacing the mag was great! That was exactly what I was looking for. I guess it's not just as simple as popping out that pin, but it's better than being stuck with the FAB10. Thanks again for the immense help.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:39:41 PM EDT
Personally I think both are junk. Build an 80% lower. It's easy if you have basic "shop" skills.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:07:30 PM EDT
I've built a couple of the vulcans out of stripped lowers. I havnt shot them a lot yet, but had no problems building them or in the little shooting I've done.If you go to Reno or Vegas for the weekend shooting you could switch it to be a detach. mag.

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 8:21:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 8:21:53 PM EDT by 1clicc]
Okay, just where can i find this Vulcan Lower Reciver in Sacramento or near Sacramento? Please let me know because i've been looking for one. I've got a Fab10, but i would love to have a Vulcan Lower too.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:56:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1clicc:
Okay, just where can i find this Vulcan Lower Reciver in Sacramento or near Sacramento? Please let me know because i've been looking for one. I've got a Fab10, but i would love to have a Vulcan Lower too.



sonoma firearms has em'. they are located in the antelope area-off Eleverta. you can look for the next nofun show in the area. they don't have a shop so they go to sell at the shows almost everyweekend.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 2:17:01 PM EDT
I got mine from Sonoma, as well. Good people to deal with. Also. if you don't mind the drive Irvington Arms are great to deal with in San Jose area. In either case I would call ahead, Vulcan has a lot of backorders to fill right now.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 2:37:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Personally I think both are junk. Build an 80% lower. It's easy if you have basic "shop" skills.



I'm sorry, folks, I just don't get it. Is it legal to buy an 80% lower and the associated tooling and then make a fully-functioning AR lower? If not, what features/functions have to be omitted to keep it legal?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:13:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 5:15:26 PM EDT by SillyPuddy]
Head up to Placerville (45 min.) and see Newtown Enterprises.

1374 BROADWAY
PLACERVILLE, CA 95667
Telephone: 530-626-9945

They are right off Hwy 50 and have lots of cool CA legal stuff. It's an actual store front. Robert and Gail are very helpful and knowledgeable. It is not your typical "hunting" gun store.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:57:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:

Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Personally I think both are junk. Build an 80% lower. It's easy if you have basic "shop" skills.



I'm sorry, folks, I just don't get it. Is it legal to buy an 80% lower and the associated tooling and then make a fully-functioning AR lower?


Nope.

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills: If not, what features/functions have to be omitted to keep it legal?

Fix the 10 round mag.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 7:36:07 PM EDT
Can I take the lower to a gunsmith to have the mag fixed? Is that DOJ compliant? What do you think a gunsmith would charge for something like that?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 8:14:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2005 8:15:20 PM EDT by unixcock]
http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=205407

This is how I replaced my mag in the vulcan.And yes, Once you move out of state you can remove the pin and have a normal AR.


Originally Posted By Fedge:
Thanks CG, that's exactly what I was looking for. Question about the Vulcan: You said the magazine is easy to replace. Vulcan describes the mag as being "pinned." I assume to replace the mag, you have to UN-pin the old mag, replace it, and re-pin it. Does this mean that if I leave CA, I can un-pin the legal mag, and temporarily use a larger, detachable mag? (outside CA, of course )

Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:11:16 PM EDT

Can I take the lower to a gunsmith to have the mag fixed? Is that DOJ compliant? What do you think a gunsmith would charge for something like that?


No, posession of an AR-15 lower in PRK is a felony, anyone working on a AR-15 lower in PRK would have to have an assault weapon permit; you are stuck with either a FAB-10 or a Vulcan which the DOJ deemed different enough from an AR-15 lower to give them OK to sell them in PRK, but you have to buy them that way. At least with the FAB-10 or Vulcan you get the DOJ letter which would make it a lot easier if an overzealous DA decided to bust you for either.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:33:31 PM EDT
I guess I should've phrased my question better... I meant if it was possible to take it to a gunsmith in CO. Having the DOJ letter is definitely nice to have though.

A vaguely related question: Do you know anything about the Shoeless Ventures ATF approved grip? Is that CA legal?
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 3:09:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 3:11:39 PM EDT by HalfMoon]
The consensus is that that grip will never fly with the CA DOJ or the D.A. that is charging you with the Felony.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 5:44:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HalfMoon:
The consensus is that that grip will never fly with the CA DOJ or the D.A. that is charging you with the Felony.



I'm not quite sure I follow what you're saying. Do you mean that having the gun with the modified grip is STILL a felony (in CA)?
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 6:24:13 PM EDT
I'm trying to build a rifle for california legal high power competition use.

Would I be better off using a fab10 or simply building a bolt rifle?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:58:25 AM EDT
Sonoma Firearms, are they open on Saturday?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 9:13:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fedge:

Originally Posted By HalfMoon:
The consensus is that that grip will never fly with the CA DOJ or the D.A. that is charging you with the Felony.



I'm not quite sure I follow what you're saying. Do you mean that having the gun with the modified grip is STILL a felony (in CA)?



I'm saying if you somehow got a non fixed mag lower and put that "grip" on it, you wouldn't be able to DROS it. If you built one from a 80% or less receiver and attached that "grip", I'm 99% certain that the first time a LEO saw it you would lose your rights to firearms due to the Felony conviction that would follow.

Sorry, but the facts are the facts, and for the time being there is no option other than the commercial lowers approved by the DOJ. If you didn't register an AW before the cut-off date you're limited to Vulcans/Fab10s/etc. I have a couple of the vulcans too, they really aren't that bad to deal with until you either move from the state, or we get people in office that will get rid of the stupid laws. They are better than the solution we had before they were approved.... NOTHING. :)
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:37:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 10:37:37 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]

Originally Posted By aerofocus:
I'm trying to build a rifle for california legal high power competition use.

Would I be better off using a fab10 or simply building a bolt rifle?




aerofocus,

Get a TUBB2000c from Creedmoor Sports or some other bolt action rifle. The FAB-10 does not work for match use - the reload is impossible, especially from position.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:21:34 AM EDT
Are there any guns that have an action like the tub2000?

That is one hell of a rifle that i'd love to own, just don't see that much money in one shot happening right now.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:25:37 AM EDT
On that note about taking it shooting in NV for a weekend. How could one setup their Vulcon so you can remove the pin without distroying the mag?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:47:43 AM EDT
There is also a box-magazine fed rifle based on a Remington 700 action called a "MAK Tube Gun". It has very similar feature and ergonomics.

MAK Enterprises Tube Gun Home Page


There are many other conventional rifles which are more than adeequate as a match rifle: Remington, Winchester, Tikka,...

Many are available new and "previously owned". Personally, I would not hesitate to buy one already assembled or previously owned. You will get a good price and have a greatly reduced wait time. If you visit one of the high power boards linked below you can often get first hand knowledge about a particular rifle which might be offered for sale.

The Highpower Journal


National Match US
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:21:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1clicc:
Sonoma Firearms, are they open on Saturday?



Sonoma firearms is not a store front, It's a guy working out of his house in Antelope. Head up to Placerville and visit Newtown Enterprises.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 6:44:13 PM EDT
There is a gun show at Cal Expo this weekend, I think they are usually there.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 9:09:27 PM EDT
Can i get Newtown Enterprises address and telephone number? They do carry Vulcan Lower right?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 9:45:30 PM EDT
1clicc, I don't know if you saw my post before, but I asked Vulcan via email and they said they doubt any dealers have them in stock and they wouldn't be shipping any out for "2-3 weeks". That was 10 days ago on 9/23.
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