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Posted: 5/27/2008 4:46:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/27/2008 5:08:13 AM EST by TxLewis]
Take this as fact.

If you are not on a signed contract for your electricty, and not on a co-op or muni, you better sign up now.

If you signed a 1 yr contract, and it has expired, but you are still on with that company, GET A CONTRACT NOW.

You are in a month to month rate, and it has been reasonable until now.

If you are month to month, expect your electricity rate to at least double, but a triple is more than likely.

Seriously, Texas has become California. Prices that should be $120 are trading at $500 +.

Get on a signed contract now.

Otherwise, you have been warned.

Do it today.

This is for both business and residential.

TXL

Link Posted: 5/27/2008 12:11:22 PM EST
I would listen to Bill. He is in the right place to catch the trend before it hits.

Thanks,
Bryan.
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 12:44:49 PM EST
So is this due to gas costs or??
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 1:06:59 PM EST
I'm in a co-op, so what is causing this spike?
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 1:15:44 PM EST
How do you get a signed contract from the electricity provider?
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 1:25:34 PM EST
What happens when you are in an area that doesn't allow competition (Austin )

BIGGER_HAMMER
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 1:39:36 PM EST
I just checked my bill and the rate they want to 'give"me when I sign up, and it doesn't make much sense to me to sign up.
I pay 11.36 on average per kwh, they want me to lock in 15.7. Why would I do that?
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 1:56:56 PM EST
yeah, you pay 11 now, but they may want to raise it to 30 given what txlewis just said. 15 wouldn't be soo bad would it?
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 2:07:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:
I'm in a co-op, so what is causing this spike?


Me too. ANy way to lock in or even change companies?
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 2:19:11 PM EST
Any options for someone locked into a one-year contract? It's not gonna expire until Dec.
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 3:43:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
Take this as fact.

<snip>

TXL


I was cold called by Reliant Energy a couple of nights ago and they girl calling said she could lock me in at a rate (IIRC) of .13-.135/kw. I told her I didn't mind her calling me back, as I had to check what my curent provider, Stream Energy is charging. Guess what? I haven't checked yet.

Anyway, what type of rate is worth locking in (or asking for), and who in your opinion is worth moving to? I know what your business is and I'm certainly not going to hold you to it should things change, but I also know you know a heck of a lot more about this market than anyone else on this board.
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 3:48:35 PM EST
I have 12.8/kwh now with NPC but it is time for a new contract... very soon.
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 3:56:19 PM EST
mighty big "Thanx!" TXL for the heads up.
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 6:29:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/27/2008 6:30:22 PM EST by Keith_J]
Yep, fuel. A good part of the total is from coal and demand is up. And since the NIMBY idiots have been shooting down most new plants. The Austin NIMBY dolts from Austin have been casting a pall on San Antonio's plan to expand the South Texas Nuclear Plant. Local Sierra Club idiots have been nixing expansion of our coal-fired resources. Wind? Well, that blows as TX Lewis has told us...lots of start-up cost for unreliable supply. It might get better if the farms were decentralized but that increases construction and operation costs.

Why the increase again? A lot more generation from natural gas which is costly.

Who is that guy who wants a plug-in car?
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 8:17:20 PM EST
one year fixed rate with Stream Energy as of tonight is at 14.8 PM me for link to switch
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 9:06:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/27/2008 9:07:46 PM EST by fundummy]
Double / Triple the power bill, and ZOMBIES will start coming out.

I expect they will sit in the DARK until the food in the fridge goes bad.

It's gonna get tough folks.
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 11:00:04 PM EST
Well unfortunately this appears to only be the beginning. Oil is the culprit behind all of these peice spikes. And Oil may have peaked or maybe it's jusr the speculaters, they've certainly added. I'm not surprised to see any of this. While Oil is down I expect this'll be short lived before we hit new records soon. Basically you can expect prices of all manner to keep going up doubling, tripling every other year, perhaps even every other year. We have now entered the age where cheap abundant Oil is gone. Things are looking quite dim for us.
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 2:30:06 AM EST
Who has plans for a small Nuclear plant. I have some room in the backyard.-Art
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 3:25:53 AM EST

Bill -

Who is the best provider to go with ?

Who has the best deal or are they all the same ?

Link Posted: 5/28/2008 4:26:10 AM EST
I work in this industry and I don't expect prices to double... It is the cost of natural gas and the reluctance to use coal that is causing the problem. We are nothing like California... Deregulation is not the problem... I agree that it would be wise at this point to sign a contract at this point and lock in a rate.
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 4:27:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By John11167:
Bill -

Who is the best provider to go with ?

Who has the best deal or are they all the same ?



www.powertochoose.org/
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 9:00:01 AM EST
Anyone know anything about Gexa Energy? I have been on First Choice Power and hate it. But have been to lazy to change providers.
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 10:16:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/28/2008 3:57:21 PM EST by cnatra]

Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:
What happens when you are in an area that doesn't allow competition (Austin )

BIGGER_HAMMER



except for co-ops San Antonio & Austin have some of the cheapest rates in Texas

far cheaper than Houston or DFW


Link Posted: 5/28/2008 10:16:33 AM EST
https://www.yeptexas.com

This provider has the lowest 12 month fixed rate 13.3 for my area. I paid $ 0.1368 last month for TXUs month to month plan(taxes included). Sound good until I saw this in the T&S agreement:

"YEP may disconnect service with or without prior written notice for any of the reasons stated in Section 25.483 of the Customer Rules and may also terminate
this Agreement without penalty in response to a change in market conditions."

What's the point of a fixed rate plan if thy can cancel it at any time due 'to a change in market conditions'?
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 11:42:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By 5654:
https://www.yeptexas.com

This provider has the lowest 12 month fixed rate 13.3 for my area. I paid $ 0.1368 last month for TXUs month to month plan(taxes included). Sound good until I saw this in the T&S agreement:

"YEP may disconnect service with or without prior written notice for any of the reasons stated in Section 25.483 of the Customer Rules and may also terminate
this Agreement without penalty in response to a change in market conditions."

What's the point of a fixed rate plan if thy can cancel it at any time due 'to a change in market conditions'?



Yes I saw that also.

I guess Reliant had the next best deal then for fixed.

Did anyone see a better deal on that list ?

By the way nice link Brushdog.
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 2:25:14 PM EST
Just be glad you don't have NPC, since they are going under now. I have no idea who they handed my service over to or how much I will get stuck for, other than it will be higher than normal rates. Thanks NPC! You screw up and pass the loss onto the customers who actually paid their bills (unlike you).

My new contract with Direct Energy starts in 20 days, fixed 12 months at $0.0143 kwh.
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 2:43:18 PM EST
Just be very careful not to go with the lowest rate and end up on POLR (Provider of Last resort). The price for POLR is MCPE + 20% or more. I don't know for sure, but I bet those NPC customers will end up paying .20 cents per kWh or more in the hottest part of the summer.
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 3:27:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By cnatra:

Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:
What happens when you are in an area that doesn't allow competition (Austin )

BIGGER_HAMMER



except for co-ops San Antonio & Austin have some of the cheapest rates Texas

far cheaper than Houston or DFW


That's a fact...we have it pretty good on Austin Energy.
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 3:43:49 PM EST
My rate for the last year has been a fixed 11.9 with Ambit. Their current variable rate is 12.4 and fixed 13.5. I'll be locking in the 13.5 for another 12 months.
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 4:03:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/28/2008 4:04:06 PM EST by geegee]
Part of the problem I have with this (and I suspect others may have as well), is recognizing the names and histories of these providers. When I lived in Houston, I was real clear on who Houston Lighting and Power was, and in the DFW area TXU has been well known for a long time. But when electric companies took on all the New Age names like Ambit, Gexa, Mega, Cirro, MXenergy, and on and on, who the hell knows who to choose? Will they be around in a month, or will I get screwed when they fold and I'm left with no options for a new elctric company to replace them? At that point, it's either going with the cheapest rate, or choose a known name like TXU, and how effective is that?
Link Posted: 5/28/2008 7:53:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcmoyer:


That's a fact...we have it pretty good on Austin Energy.

Yup!
The last 3 months I have paid an average of $0.0855 per KWh. The price jumps considerably for any usage over 500 KWh per month, so I try hard to conserve.

Link Posted: 5/29/2008 3:54:15 AM EST
I work for Cirro.

THe muni's and co-ops will get a fuel cost increase, but it won't be perm.

If you are NOT on a contract, and in a competitive area, you are on either a "flex" rate or a month-to-month rate.

Up till this month, those are usually reasonable. You want them high enough to make money, but not high enough to get someone to switch to another company.

The power that is bought is bought on a monthly basis. It has been reasonable to do so. For may, the prices were insane. Almost EVERY RETAIL PROVIDER will bump those rates enough to either get you to sign back up (so they can purchase long term power), or get you to leave, so they don't have to buy $200 power to sell to you at $140.

IMO there will be some smaller retailers out of business before the month is over. There have already been 2 go down.

HRT4ME, all you have to do is call company you recognize from the powertochoose website (posted earlier) and most can sign you up over the phone.

Will answer other questions on edit.


TXL
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 3:56:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:
I'm in a co-op, so what is causing this spike?


High gas cost, tranmission outages this month, and price caps having been raised by the PUC have all combined to make this the most expensive month ever for electricity in Tx.

Co-ops have to recover those costs. What has costed $120 for day ahead near the south or Houston has been costing over $400, with spot prices over $4,000.00

This will hit EVERYONE. Thank the PUC commissioner Smitherman.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 3:56:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:
What happens when you are in an area that doesn't allow competition (Austin )

BIGGER_HAMMER


You will ultimately get stuck with the best prices in the state.....


TXL
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 3:57:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gopher:

Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:
I'm in a co-op, so what is causing this spike?


Me too. ANy way to lock in or even change companies?



No, be happy, your's is as close to cost base regulated elec as you can get.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 3:59:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By John11167:
Bill -

Who is the best provider to go with ?

Who has the best deal or are they all the same ?



Many good ones. powertochoose lists rates. read carefully

Mine is Cirro

other good ones, TXU, Reliant, Star-TEX, green mountain, just to name a few.

try to pick one that's been around at least a few years.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 4:04:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Marlow:
I work in this industry and I don't expect prices to double... It is the cost of natural gas and the reluctance to use coal that is causing the problem. We are nothing like California... Deregulation is not the problem... I agree that it would be wise at this point to sign a contract at this point and lock in a rate.


I would disagree, if you have seen power this week and last, and when Nat Power tried to raise the rates, SMitherman (PUC COmmish) tried to tell them they couldn't ( He was wrong, but strong armed Nat Power) to the point they declared bankruptcy.

Then he said he would call all the retailers and tell them they could not raise rates.

Factor in the price caps at $2250 and $4500 for shadow prices, and think about it again.

Include the FACT that the PUC COmm said, IN MY PRESENCE, at an open meeting, that as long as we have 3-4 electric retailers (TXU, RELIANT, AEP, and an other) that we have competition, he knows that the new market will kill companies, and the price will go up, we are headed in that direction.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 4:15:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By geegee:
Part of the problem I have with this (and I suspect others may have as well), is recognizing the names and histories of these providers. When I lived in Houston, I was real clear on who Houston Lighting and Power was, and in the DFW area TXU has been well known for a long time. But when electric companies took on all the New Age names like Ambit, Gexa, Mega, Cirro, MXenergy, and on and on, who the hell knows who to choose? Will they be around in a month, or will I get screwed when they fold and I'm left with no options for a new elctric company to replace them? At that point, it's either going with the cheapest rate, or choose a known name like TXU, and how effective is that?


Actually, there is blood in the water, so the big companies you recognize, (BTW, hlp is now reliant) are starting to have real good rates, to try to increase pressure on the little guys.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 4:16:32 AM EST
I will check this thread more often in the future if you have any more questions.

TXL
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:31:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 10:50:25 AM EST by Marlow]

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By Marlow:
I work in this industry and I don't expect prices to double... It is the cost of natural gas and the reluctance to use coal that is causing the problem. We are nothing like California... Deregulation is not the problem... I agree that it would be wise at this point to sign a contract at this point and lock in a rate.


I would disagree, if you have seen power this week and last, and when Nat Power tried to raise the rates, SMitherman (PUC COmmish) tried to tell them they couldn't ( He was wrong, but strong armed Nat Power) to the point they declared bankruptcy.

Then he said he would call all the retailers and tell them they could not raise rates.

Factor in the price caps at $2250 and $4500 for shadow prices, and think about it again.

Include the FACT that the PUC COmm said, IN MY PRESENCE, at an open meeting, that as long as we have 3-4 electric retailers (TXU, RELIANT, AEP, and an other) that we have competition, he knows that the new market will kill companies, and the price will go up, we are headed in that direction.

TXL


You are wrong in my informed opinion... That was a fixed price plan National's Customers signed up for long ago. They weren't trying to raise the rates on their current offers alone. Their actions were unethical and they deserved to go out of business. They were only able to offer those artificially low rates because they weren't hedged properly. They HAD to raise their "fixed rate" plans to stay in business. When the PUC prevented them from doing so they went under because they didn't procure properly. Hedging your procurement strategy with options and calls is expensive and they couldn't offer those prices and make a profit if they were hedged properly. They made a bet and lost, and their customers are suffering because of it. They should see a class action. The market didn't kill National Power Company. The PUC decision was to protect consumers from fly-by-nights, not to protect Reliant and others from competition. Your opinion seems ill-iformed and biased at best.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:05:33 AM EST
Well, I got the call to switch this morning and I pulled the trigger. A guy called from Reliant, and here was his offer: Switch now and lock in 13.3 a month for two years. I then started asking questions about other fees. He said there would be a montly $5.00 fee (servicing of some sort), which would give me an effective rate of 13.6 per month. I figured I could live with that.

Also, make the switch now and receive a special sweetner of paying 11.9 a month, until the end of the summer. I askd him to please define "the end of summer." He said right up until Sept 21st. In addition, in the first month my service goes through, I'll get an immediate $75.00 refund.

I asked if my rates could be raised at any time for a change in "market conditions." He said no, but could only be raised if there was a regulatory pricing increase, which would effectively hit everyone across the state, regardless of who you'd be using.

How about a termination fee? Yup, $200.00. At the end of the conversation, I felt good about switching, as I've had a few occurrences to call Stream Energy and once or twice never spoke to anyone, and got only pre-recorded messages. That didn't make me feel especially confident about them, and though that may be an overreaction, I'm quite sure Reliant has better staying power.

Did I do the right thing? Hard to say, but I checked all the competitve rates out there and these rates sounded pretty good to me.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:10:20 AM EST

Did I do the right thing?


If you are OK with that rate, you did the right thing. Prices MAY fall during your term, but it is more likely that they will go up. How long is your term? 24 months or 12?
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:16:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Marlow:

Did I do the right thing?


If you are OK with that rate, you did the right thing. Prices MAY fall during your term, but it is more likely that they will go up. How long is your term? 24 months or 12?

Twenty four months. I just can't imagine them going lower. And one thing I left out is that he said that if I want to cancel and go back to Stream in the first two months, I can do so with no penalty.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:20:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 11:39:06 AM EST by 5654]

Originally Posted By Marlow:

Did I do the right thing?


If you are OK with that rate, you did the right thing. Prices MAY fall during your term, but it is more likely that they will go up. How long is your term? 24 months or 12?


Given what started this topic should I consider a 36 month lock in at 13.6 cents from StarTex? Reliant is the same price but only a 2 year contract. I'm not savy on the history of energy costs so cant assume what will happen, but at the rate their punching gas wells in DFW I can't see nautral gas doing anything but going down.

Usually the $5 service charge is only if you use less than 500kWh/month. over that and there should be no fee. Edit - But not for Reliant $4.50/mo until 9/22 then $5/mo for the remaining 20 months.

A little math:
Reliants 24 eplan saving over StarTex 36 plan (no affiliacton just comparing apples) is .136-.117$/kWh*2000kWh/mo*4mo = $152 savings but Startex has no base fee so subtract 4.50$/mo*4promomonths+5.0$/mo*20month = $118 from $152 and the saving now is only $34 plus with StarTex you would be locked in for an additional 12 months which according to energy trend would be a good thing. Also I couldn't find anything in their TOS about rate changes due to energy prices.

I thuink I may sign up for StarTex...
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:47:44 AM EST
So I signed up with Cirro when I moved in this year. (January)
I should be good to go right?
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 2:56:47 PM EST
It has to come and you guys had me worried so I got a 24 mo deal w/reliant @ $.13 per.

Paid the $7.25 to have it up in 7 days.

Where can I lock in water costs and trash before they figure out nobody can live without?
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 7:04:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 7:06:19 PM EST by kikomax]

Originally Posted By geegee:
Part of the problem I have with this (and I suspect others may have as well), is recognizing the names and histories of these providers. When I lived in Houston, I was real clear on who Houston Lighting and Power was, and in the DFW area TXU has been well known for a long time. But when electric companies took on all the New Age names like Ambit, Gexa, Mega, Cirro, MXenergy, and on and on, who the hell knows who to choose? Will they be around in a month, or will I get screwed when they fold and I'm left with no options for a new elctric company to replace them? At that point, it's either going with the cheapest rate, or choose a known name like TXU, and how effective is that?


yeah the where the fuck is Reddy Killowatt?
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:09:30 PM EST
tag for tomorrow when im nnot f\drung
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 3:49:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By krpind:
tag for tomorrow when im nnot f\drung

Alrighty then.....

Here's a timely article from this morning's Star-Telegram. Link.



Surge in power prices may portend long, costly summer in Texas

By R.A. DYERStar-Telegram staff writer
STAR-TELEGRAM

AUSTIN -- In a sign of tough times ahead for ratepayers, electric wholesale prices have spiked to nearly unprecedented levels this week, and regulators now warn that thousands of Texans who have been involuntarily switched to alternative power providers may end up with shockingly high bills.

The tumult in the state's deregulated power market also appears to have taken a toll on electric retailers, with two going out of business this month alone and analysts predicting more failures in the near future.

With an eye toward the upheavals, the Texas Public Utility Commission on Thursday called an emergency meeting in which commissioners warned of painfully high prices for Texans who have been involuntarily sent to default providers because their regular electric companies went belly-up.

Commissioners signaled that default providers should take it upon themselves to lower their rates but also urged Texans getting stuck with service from those providers to immediately shop for better deals.

"Get off POLR now!" said Commissioner Paul Hudson, referring to the default "provider of last resort" electric companies.

But analysts say it's not just POLR customers who need to worry. As wholesale prices go up, so have rates charged to Texas home consumers and businesses, they say.

Since Jan. 1, 12-month fixed-rate electric prices have gone up nearly 40 percent for residential customers, according to an analysis by an online electricity shopping site.

And those prices will probably continue going up this summer and beyond, said Chris Brewster, a consumer representative at the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages the state's power grid.

Brewster blamed increasing fuel costs and said that wholesale market spikes also put pressure on retailers.

"This is real cause for concern," Brewster said. "The price spikes may not affect the bill that a regular customer pays at this time, but the fact that [wholesale prices] can and do go so high occasionally makes [retailers] tend to increase the prices that they charge."

Brent Moore, chief executive of SaveOnEnergy.com of Dallas, also expressed concern.

"Natural gas prices are up to where they were in the year of [Hurricanes] Katrina and Rita," he said. "To my knowledge, electricity has never been this high before the hot summer weather."

Market failures

In the past month, two companies, Bridgeport-based PreBuy Electric and Houston-based National Power, failed to keep up with their financial obligations, and as a result, thousands of their customers were forcibly switched to providers of last resort.

Rates charged by POLR companies are typically higher than those of other electric retailers. However, increases in the cost of wholesale power have driven up POLR prices even more.

In the case of National Power, some customers on fixed-rate deals who were using about 1,000 kilowatt-hours of power a month could have expected National Power bills of about $110, according to calculations from Public Utility Commission data.

However, some of those same customers who were switched to a provider of last resort could pay $200 to $300 for the same usage.

And given that summer usage goes up, the difference in bills could be even more dramatic.

PUC Chairman Barry Smitherman said that anybody who gets switched to a provider of last resort should switch service plans as quickly as possible. "We want to get the word out -- the POLR rate will be high," he said.

The price spikes

Those rates are a function of certain prices in the wholesale electricity market. Transactions in that market are managed by the Texas power grid.

According to information from the grid, the wholesale prices in question spiked for 15 minutes Wednesday from about $175 per megawatt-hour to the maximum price allowed by law: $2,250.

The market experienced several other spikes of more than $1,000 in recent days, and has seen spikes to $2,250 on a handful of occasions since that price cap went into effect three months ago.

By contrast, prices in that segment of the wholesale market typically hover at $50 to $100 a megawatt-hour.

It's unclear what's causing the spikes, because they are not correlated directly to natural gas costs, analysts say.

But Dan Jones, an independent monitor at the power grid, said he suspects that they result from problems with the design of the state's deregulated wholesale market.

He said that a $300 million market overhaul scheduled to be completed next year should alleviate the problem.

Geoffrey Gay, an attorney with expertise in utility matters, said the problem may be more serious. He has little confidence in what he describes as an overly expensive market redesign but adds that the current system isn't working either.

"At some point, policymakers are going to have to realize that this [electric deregulation] path we are on is creating some long-term economic instability," Gay said.

Consumer advocate Randy Chapman also sees problems ahead and said the PUC should insist on more financial and performance assurances from electric companies that do business here.

Otherwise, consumers won't have confidence that when they select an electric company, it won't go abruptly out of business, he said.

"Anyone with two SUVs, a Persian carpet and $100,000 can call themselves an electric company in Texas," he said.

rdyer@star-telegram.com
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 5:40:23 AM EST
For those that think that a couple gas wells will lower cost:

It may help, but typically gas turbines are used to handle peak demand (they kick on when everyone is using at the same time, which is not completely accurate, but a descent explination). Most of our price being high is because Natural Gas is high, but another part comes from the fact that we refuse to build cheaper generation to handle demand (i.e. build coal plants). Costs will contintue to go up based on speculatory BS. There may be a small correction, but prices will just hold at that point rather than going back down. The only things that I could see lowering price at this point are-

1. New coal generation
2. HUGE new reserves of natural gas saturating the market
3. Lower demand

I don't see any of those happening soon.
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 7:13:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By geegee:

Originally Posted By krpind:
tag for tomorrow when im nnot f\drung

Alrighty then.....

Here's a timely article from this morning's Star-Telegram. Link.



Surge in power prices may portend long, costly summer in Texas



Hmm, looks like I'm ahead of the times.

TXL
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