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Posted: 11/29/2007 6:31:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2007 6:34:51 PM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
Just finished making some final adjustments to my syllabus for my CCW class Sunday, and decided to add an appendix. My ten rules of gunfighting, with CCW in mind (so no "your pistol is just to fight to the long gun you never should have put down" bullshit).

1. Have a gun. I don’t care what kung fu move you saw Chuck Norris do on “Walker Texas Ranger,” in real life it is very difficult to live through a gunfight when all the bullets are flying towards YOU.

Collary: Have a gun that works. A gun that fails when you need it most is not a gun, but a club. See rule #1.

2. Have enough gun. When you are carrying a gun around all day, it feels like no gun is too small. If you ever actually have to draw it and shoot to live, you’ll swear that no gun could possibly be too big.

3. Have enough ammo. Nobody who ever lived through a real gunfight ever said “Damn, you know I really brought too much ammo with me that day.”

4. Remember, proximity negates skill. Distance is your friend. If at all possible, get distance and keep distance. The goal is not to kill the bad guy, the goal is to live. The bad guy's probability of killing you decreases exponentially the further away you get from him. Even trained police officers frequently miss from distances no greater than 10 yards away.

5. Remember, concealment does not equal cover. Bullets can and will go right through car doors. Hide behind the engine block instead. A brick wall is even better. A wooden door is no protection at all, in fact most things in your house will not stop bullets. A .22lr bullet has been proven to penetrate 4 layers of sheetrock wall. A 9mm will penetrate 8 layers of sheetrock.

6. Aim for the big part. In a real life gunfight your accuracy will not be the same as on the shooting range. “Missing” a little bit is ok if the part you are aiming at is physically larger than the error of your miss.

7. If there is no big part, aim for the part you can see. There is no such thing as “cheating” when fighting for your life. If you can only see his elbow because he’s hiding behind cover to reload, SHOOT HIS ELBOW.

8. Practice what works for you until it really, really works. In ten years your family probably won’t remember what stance you used, which is your dominant eye, or what brand of ammo you used. They will remember whether you lived or died that night.

9. Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting more than once. Do not shoot once, and then peer over your sights in an attempt to observe any possible reaction to the firing of your gun. Whether you have hit your intended target may not be immediately obvious. Shooting to live means shooting until the threat has obviously ceased.

10. If you think you are going into a gunfight, don’t go. There’s a little voice in your head that may tell you from time to time, “Hey, I wouldn’t do that if I were you.” The human beings who weren’t devoured by saber-toothed tigers brought that little voice out of the jungle with them. It works pretty well in the urban jungle too.


Link Posted: 11/29/2007 6:47:18 PM EDT
nice...
Link Posted: 11/29/2007 7:39:27 PM EDT
LOL at the long gun comment.
Link Posted: 11/29/2007 7:56:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DernHumpus:
LOL at the long gun comment.


Yeah that one pisses me off. One of the best rejoinders I've ever seen on arfcom was to a guy who posted in the handgun forums, "Your pistol is just to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have put down in the first place."

Next post: "I'm going to keep bumping this thread back to the top every day until you post pics of yourself eating at the Cracker Barrel with your M1a slug over your shoulder."

Next several posts:

BTT

BTT

BTT

BTT...
Link Posted: 11/29/2007 8:03:09 PM EDT
Nice...
Link Posted: 11/29/2007 8:23:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2007 8:29:14 PM EDT by AFSOC]

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Originally Posted By DernHumpus:
LOL at the long gun comment.


Yeah that one pisses me off. One of the best rejoinders I've ever seen on arfcom was to a guy who posted in the handgun forums, "Your pistol is just to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have put down in the first place."

Next post: "I'm going to keep bumping this thread back to the top every day until you post pics of yourself eating at the Cracker Barrel with your M1a slug over your shoulder."

Next several posts:

BTT

BTT

BTT

BTT...


Caveat - The above exchange did not involve me... BUT

If it weren't that the sheep would get scared and start bleeting I would....
That is a quote from Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch. I believe he knows what he is talking about. At no point has a handgun ever been the "best" choice for primary arm...
But it is more "practical" Choice to carry regularly. Unlike an M1A2 MBT... They are difficult to holster!!!

And of course my personal favorite "FACE SHOOTING!!!" Pretty much anything man or beast WILL leave you the fuck alone after you shoot it in the face a few times!

I wholly agree though to bring enough gun to the gunfight, if you HAVE to go to the fight, and you CANNOT avoid it in any way, Bring a gun that will punch larger holes...
Not a 50 Deagle but a big enough gun.
Pissing off a grizzly with a 25 is just plain dumb!
Link Posted: 11/29/2007 11:59:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Just finished making some final adjustments to my syllabus for my CCW class Sunday, and decided to add an appendix. My ten rules of gunfighting, with CCW in mind (so no "your pistol is just to fight to the long gun you never should have put down" bullshit).

1. Have a gun. I don’t care what kung fu move you saw Chuck Norris do on “Walker Texas Ranger,” in real life it is very difficult to live through a gunfight when all the bullets are flying towards YOU.

Collary: Have a gun that works. A gun that fails when you need it most is not a gun, but a club. See rule #1.

2. Have enough gun. When you are carrying a gun around all day, it feels like no gun is too small. If you ever actually have to draw it and shoot to live, you’ll swear that no gun could possibly be too big.

3. Have enough ammo. Nobody who ever lived through a real gunfight ever said “Damn, you know I really brought too much ammo with me that day.”

4. Remember, proximity negates skill. Distance is your friend. If at all possible, get distance and keep distance. The goal is not to kill the bad guy, the goal is to live. The bad guy's probability of killing you decreases exponentially the further away you get from him. Even trained police officers frequently miss from distances no greater than 10 yards away.

5. Remember, concealment does not equal cover. Bullets can and will go right through car doors. Hide behind the engine block instead. A brick wall is even better. A wooden door is no protection at all, in fact most things in your house will not stop bullets. A .22lr bullet has been proven to penetrate 4 layers of sheetrock wall. A 9mm will penetrate 8 layers of sheetrock.

6. Aim for the big part. In a real life gunfight your accuracy will not be the same as on the shooting range. “Missing” a little bit is ok if the part you are aiming at is physically larger than the error of your miss.

7. If there is no big part, aim for the part you can see. There is no such thing as “cheating” when fighting for your life. If you can only see his elbow because he’s hiding behind cover to reload, SHOOT HIS ELBOW.

8. Practice what works for you until it really, really works. In ten years your family probably won’t remember what stance you used, which is your dominant eye, or what brand of ammo you used. They will remember whether you lived or died that night.

9. Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting more than once. Do not shoot once, and then peer over your sights in an attempt to observe any possible reaction to the firing of your gun. Whether you have hit your intended target may not be immediately obvious. Shooting to live means shooting until the threat has obviously ceased.

10. If you think you are going into a gunfight, don’t go. There’s a little voice in your head that may tell you from time to time, “Hey, I wouldn’t do that if I were you.” The human beings who weren’t devoured by saber-toothed tigers brought that little voice out of the jungle with them. It works pretty well in the urban jungle too.




My response to -Duke-Nukem-'s "My ten rules of gunfighting"

WTF are you talking about? CCW is not about gun fighting, it is about survival.



Here are my 3 rules of survival

1. There are no rules.

2. If there were rules, see -Duke-Nukem-'s number 10.

3. As there are no rules, use whatever is at hand to get yourself home safely. (CCW is a mute point at home as no permit needed).



My comments about -Duke-Nukem-'s "My ten rules of gunfighting"

1 - Having a gun is nice, having 6 time PKA heavyweight karate champion and commissioned law enforcement officer for the state of Texas is good too! Humans have been putting tasty critters on the table and killing each other with clubs long before the advent of firearms. See my number 3 rule of survival.

2 - You can have too much gun. See My Wife -vs- the Desert Eagle .50 YouTube video. Notice her trigger finger location and where the muzzle is pointed at the end of the shot. Excellent! Now go kick that @sshole of a husband in the jimmie.

3 - This is BS. If you find yourself face-to-face with Al-Qaeda, f*ck the ammo, have a working cell phone and wear running shoes. That way you can call 911 to summon those better suited to handle this situation as you run home and hide. See my number 3 rule of survival.

4 - Here is one I like. Distance in will neutralize any weapon when applied in large enough amounts.

5 - Here is another WTF. Learn about camouflage, cover, and concealment. These are three different things so learn the proper use of each.

6 - Aiming is pointing sh!t. Shooting to survive is part instinct and part skill. Shot placement is the key. It does not matter whether you aimed or just did something instinctive like stick your .22lr mini revolver in your threat's eye and jerked the trigger so long as a bullet ends up in the brain. Things like knowing when and where to shoot are also important.

7- WTF!!! More bah...bah...bah. No need for Rambo as a elbow is not a threat to your life, f*cking run home.

8 - Practice is what you do to learn a skill. I have not ridden a bicycle in 30 years but I still know how.

9 - Before I can comment on this one I must invoke my 5th amendment right until I consult with my attorney.

10 - See my number 3 rule of survival.



Ending Comments

I liken the CCW class to a driving test. It is simply a requirement to get your license. You should already know how to drive before taking the damned test and you should be able to put 25 rounds with a pistol and 25 round with a revolver in that big @ssed target before taking the class. What someone carries and how they shoot will be as diverse as what one drives, how they drive, and where they drive.

Thanks Mike, it is almost 3:00am! My @ss will dragging at work all day.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 8:41:16 AM EDT
For the most part, these rules are horseshit for a CCW class. CCW is not about hollywood shootouts and and action hero combat. There is some really poor advice in there.

You either shoot to kill or you flee.

No hiding behind engine blocks so I can shoot the guy in the elbow with my .500 S&W then do a judo flip and reload from my fanny pack full of twenty speedloaders.

Perhaps you should focus on how the real world works. For instance, if a CCW holder kills properly in self defense, you will still be arrested, held in jail, possibly charged with a crime, etc. Even if you get off scot free with the police, you WILL be sued by the deceased person's family becase some scum sucking lawyer will find out about the situation and insert himself. You will probably spend in the neighborhood of $100K defending yourself in the civil suit.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:07:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By boomfab:

Perhaps you should focus on how the real world works. For instance, if a CCW holder kills properly in self defense, you will still be arrested, held in jail, possibly charged with a crime, etc. Even if you get off scot free with the police, you WILL be sued by the deceased person's family becase some scum sucking lawyer will find out about the situation and insert himself. You will probably spend in the neighborhood of $100K defending yourself in the civil suit.


I do an entire section on what to do after a confrontation, whether shots are fired or not. Depending on the situtation you may not be sued, if you can convince the court that you have an absolute defense under the recently passed castle doctrine.

Other than that, thanks for the input, except for the straw man argument of course.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:29:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By boomfab:

For the most part, these rules are horseshit for a CCW class. CCW is not about hollywood shootouts and and action hero combat. There is some really poor advice in there.

You either shoot to kill or you flee.



This is exactly what I said only different.

I took one of the first CCW classes right after the law passed. I was 42 at the time and the youngest in the class. It was a real eye opener as to who was getting CCW permits in Missouri. Sorry Mike but catering to the mall ninja types is not the way to go. I would drop this appendix from the class.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:30:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2007 9:55:19 AM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
I'm going to respond to Brother Kane's critique as well. Keep in mind that my intended audience for this is not arfcommers who shoot all the time, but folks who are generally not gun enthusiasts to begin with and may not have thought about these issues much at all. Its intended to be thought provoking if a bit over the top as well.

1 - Having a gun is nice, having 6 time PKA heavyweight karate champion and commissioned law enforcement officer for the state of Texas is good too! Humans have been putting tasty critters on the table and killing each other with clubs long before the advent of firearms. See my number 3 rule of survival.

If I ever have Chuck Norris in my class I'll make sure to make an exception to this rule. The point of this rule is to emphasize that if you get a CCW endorsement it can only save your life if you actually use it, i.e. actually carry the gun. Leaving the gun in the dresser drawer is effectively the same thing as if the CCW law had never been passed.

2 - You can have too much gun. See My Wife -vs- the Desert Eagle .50 YouTube video. Notice her trigger finger location and where the muzzle is pointed at the end of the shot. Excellent! Now go kick that @sshole of a husband in the jimmie.

Nobody in my class is going to CCW a $1200 Desert Eagle every day. This comment is designed to be referenced during the inevitable discussion of "is a .22 good enough?" which happens during every class. And I wrote "have enough gun", not "carry a beltfed if you can". Its another straw man argument.

3 - This is BS. If you find yourself face-to-face with Al-Qaeda, f*ck the ammo, have a working cell phone and wear running shoes. That way you can call 911 to summon those better suited to handle this situation as you run home and hide. See my number 3 rule of survival.

There's nothing I say or do in my class that will prepare a student for a face-to-face with Al-Qaeda. I teach calling 911 as soon as you are safe and loudly asking any bystanders to call 911 as well. Maybe having enough ammo means having enough ammo to get away, get safe, and call 911, whether its terrorists or just a run-of-the-mill mugger.

4 - Here is one I like. Distance in will neutralize any weapon when applied in large enough amounts.

5 - Here is another WTF. Learn about camouflage, cover, and concealment. These are three different things so learn the proper use of each.

I don't have time to teach about camo/cover/concealment. Its already 4 hours of lecture before I added more yesterday. I only intend to point out that things people try to hide behind don't actually stop bullets. This one is intended to pique the interest of the reader so they will at least realize there is a difference between cover and concealment.

6 - Aiming is pointing sh!t. Shooting to survive is part instinct and part skill. Shot placement is the key. It does not matter whether you aimed or just did something instinctive like stick your .22lr mini revolver in your threat's eye and jerked the trigger so long as a bullet ends up in the brain. Things like knowing when and where to shoot are also important.

I cover all that. I teach "use your sights whenever possible" but also teach retention position shooting from contact range. All this is covered. Again, the people I'm teaching are probably not going to be expert marksmen in a real gunfight. I know I wouldn't be and I shoot alot more than they do. A simple instruction to "aim for the big part" means a greater probability of good shot placement, since the "big part" is where all the vitals are located anyway.

7- WTF!!! More bah...bah...bah. No need for Rambo as a elbow is not a threat to your life, f*cking run home.

Again, the example is meant to open people's minds to the idea that you don't have to wait until you have a perfect sight picture in the center of the adversary's chest. We won't be practicing elbow shooting, we'll be shooting center of mass. I don't want people's minds to get locked into thinking that's the only place they can possibly shoot.

And, to defend the straw man a bit, a guy whose elbow is barely showing because he's reloading his AR15 behind a brick wall sure as shit is a threat if I'm 5 yards away with a .357 snubnosed revolver. I need to shoot now and score a hit if running away has even a chance to succeed.

8 - Practice is what you do to learn a skill. I have not ridden a bicycle in 30 years but I still know how.

If you haven't shot a gun in 30 years but think you still know how, you are one of those people I have to "take some extra time with" to make sure they qualify and don't waste their money with my class. Shooting is a perishable skill and you know this, man.

9 - Before I can comment on this one I must invoke my 5th amendment right until I consult with my attorney.

Nyuk nyuk nyuk...

10 - See my number 3 rule of survival.

True that. I'm ending the list with an appeal to common sense. I've never been in a nightclub shooting at 2am in Westport because I've never been in a nightclub at 2am in Westport. This ties in with a small bit I do on "a fight never fought is a fight won", about how retreat from a confrontation may not be legally required but is still a great idea if at all practicable.


Maybe I will drop the list. After seeing the responses its clear that it didn't elicit the thoughts I was going for, and if its going to cause people to buy Desert Eagles, carry bandoliers of ammo, and practice elbow shooting at their local range, then the class is obviously better off without it. I didn't expect people to take it that way.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 10:42:15 AM EDT
"Elbow Shooting" the New "Face Shooting"
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 11:08:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2007 11:13:22 AM EDT by eric10mm]
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 12:24:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AFSOC:
"Elbow Shooting" the New "Face Shooting"


Make sure that you are shooting from the hip when doing this.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 4:30:57 PM EDT
Actually, Duke, what you are seeing is the ARFCOM response. I taught CCW, as you know, and had a similar set of points that I taught.

However, they are bolded in my lesson plan as a series of emphasis points interspersed into the appropriate sections and where applicable. I taught them this way:

(In Storage of Firearms)
1. If you don't have your gun when you needed it, you might as well not have it at all. Likewise if it's unloaded. An unloaded firearm is a club. I'm not saying you should keep all of your firearms loaded and ready go to, but you should have at least one that you consider your "ready" one. This firearm should be on your person or in a place that you have control over.

(In Firearm and Ammunition Selection)
2. If your firearm is not powerful enough to cause the attacker to notice that he's been shot, you might be killed anyway despite having excellent marksmanship and speed. More powerful firearms are more likely to cause an attacker to stop when hit.

(In Firearm and Ammunition Selection)
3. I recommend carrying at least two reloads, a pocket knife, and a flashlight in addition to your firearm. The flashlight aids in identification of threats and some models can blind a person at night. The two reloads are there because, while rare, some confrontations aren't over in the first volley. And a knife is a generally handy item to have on hand.

(In Legal, FAQ, Shooting a person with a knife)

4. If a person is within 21 feet of you and they have a knife, your chances of surviving the encounter, even while armed with a gun, are bad. That distance can be covered in 1 second. 3/4 of a second is considered a very quick pistol draw, and this doesn't include the shoot/no shoot decision making process.

(In Self Defense in the Home)

5. Almost all modern firearms will penetrate the walls in a house. They are not cover. If you are standing behind one and somebody shoots the wall in front of you, the bullet won't even notice. Only a few things might be cover in the home, and not all of these work either:

Old Bathtubs
Stove
Hot water heater filled with water
Bookshelf with books
Refridgerator
Some sinks
Piano
55 gallon drum of uranium (depleted hopefully)

(In Defense Shooting Techniques)

6. Aim for the center of mass.

7. Never covered this.

(In Defense Shooting Techniques)

8. Try to get to the range at least once a month. Every two weeks is better, and every week is really taking responsibility. Practice the actual techniques you expect to use in a confrontation.

(In Defense Shooting Techniques)

9. Attackers rarely ever go down immediately, and rarely after just one shot. Keep shooting until the attacker has stopped.

10. We taught throughout that course that being involved in a shooting of any sort sucks. If you live, it still sucks when the people that you can't shoot start coming after you in court.

As for the comment about carrying a rifle to the restaurant, well, I would if our society weren't so sissy. I mean, that's just admitting that the Isreali's are better than we are.

Link Posted: 11/30/2007 8:20:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Brother Kane:



Here are my 3 rules of survival

1. There are no rules.

All anyone needs to know for survival
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 10:20:21 PM EDT
Don't you think that's oversimplifying things a bit? I mean, it sounds great to say "there are no rules" but how exactly does that help you to survive? That's not ALL you need to know, its a mindset you need to maintain while you learn.

Totally not the same thing.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 1:02:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2007 1:17:31 AM EDT by Brother Kane]

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Don't you think that's oversimplifying things a bit? I mean, it sounds great to say "there are no rules" but how exactly does that help you to survive? That's not ALL you need to know, its a mindset you need to maintain while you learn.

Totally not the same thing.


It may sound simple but it is very hard for decent people to find that mindset. It is not natural for an 80 year old grandmother to fire 15 rounds of .40 s&w from a Model 22 Glock into a human being's (term used loosely) chest even though she is about to be raped and killed by that person (ditto). One has to go to a section of the human psyche that most fear. People tend to ignore that little voice that says to open fire which is also the same little voice you mentioned earlier.


Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
There’s a little voice in your head that may tell you from time to time, “Hey, I wouldn’t do that if I were you.”

That voice is instinct and mankind has been slowly replacing it with the voice of reason. The unreasonable do not respond to reason.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 2:28:43 AM EDT
I swear Duke! I'm tempted to drive out to KC just to take your course when the time comes.

I'm assuming you teach a CCW course and are in KC.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 9:15:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/1/2007 9:21:24 AM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]

Originally Posted By Rustyone:
I swear Duke! I'm tempted to drive out to KC just to take your course when the time comes.

I'm assuming you teach a CCW course and are in KC.


Yup. Tomorrow at 9am, but I do them every couple of months or so. Sometimes more frequently than that, if there is interest.

EDIT: In response to your last post, Brother Kane, what you are talking about is dealt with by one of the first things I do in the class. Everyone has to answer The Question, which is, could you actually kill someone to save your life or save someone else's life? If the answer is no, then you are free to go, here's your money back, sorry you wasted your time driving out here. Having a firearm is nothing but a liability to you, its just going to get taken away from you and used on you.

My father, for example, is a very religious man. He's a pacifist and depends on faith to protect him. In the event he is attacked he has sworn not to fight back. He says Jesus didn't fight back, he allowed himself to be killed, and if a Christian intends to make himself more like Christ he must be prepared to offer no resistance to those who would murder him.

I think that's some high n mighty stuff to say in the comfort of your living room, when you or your wife hasn't actually ever been attacked by anyone, but hey, we just agree to disagree on that point. My dad would be more dangerous to himself than anyone else if you gave him a firearm, he'd have a negligent discharge before you could show him which part was the business end of the thing.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 10:32:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rustyone:
I swear Duke! I'm tempted to drive out to KC just to take your course when the time comes.

I'm assuming you teach a CCW course and are in KC.


Rustyone, I drove with a co-worker from Columbia to Holden for Duke's CCW class and can tell you it is well worth the drive. It really makes a difference having a Lawyer translate the leagalese to english.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 2:09:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rsteinb:

Originally Posted By Rustyone:
I swear Duke! I'm tempted to drive out to KC just to take your course when the time comes.

I'm assuming you teach a CCW course and are in KC.


Rustyone, I drove with a co-worker from Columbia to Holden for Duke's CCW class and can tell you it is well worth the drive. It really makes a difference having a Lawyer translate the leagalese to english.


I might as well add that I'm not the same person when teaching the class as I am on arfcom. My internet persona is wacky and zany, sort of a caricature of my most outgoing side. When I'm teaching the class I'm all business, I don't go around yelling "Wolverines" or anything. So, its a bit different than what you might expect if you don't know me personally and haven't seen me post online.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 3:21:44 PM EDT
I think I can state catagorically that I understand what Duke is Saying, I also understand that while what some of the other folks are saying is correct as well
It is not necessarily practical. It is at times such as this that I find the need to repost the Parable of the sheep, not the Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs but the Parable of the sheep.

If you have not read this in the couple times before read through it now. It is somewhat longish, but it is relavent, and this is exactly why we cannot wear a firearm in public, and also why we cannot carry rifles about daily Believe me if it were not so upsetting to the sheep I would.

Parable of the Sheep
By Charles Riggs

Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

One day a group of sheep, more bold than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. "Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one dog and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!"

One sheep spoke up, saying "It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery." The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them and cried "Begone! We are not food!" and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!

The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out "Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!"

The brave sheep stopped, amazed. "But we are your brethren!" they cried, "We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!"

"Baaaaaaaddd!", cried the flock,"the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock. They scare us!". So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return. Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep's weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, "Baaaaaaddddd! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!".

And so they did. The great chief sheep and his court and council, encouraged by the words of their moneylenders and advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying "It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!". But the flock would not hear, and drowned them out with cries of "Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!".

Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying "Baaaaddd! Bad things!".

That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep's totems and signs, and said, "Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!". And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter. It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, vowing to each other to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, "See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!". But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, "Baaaaaaaadddd! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaaddd!". The other sheep could only hang their heads and sigh. The flock had forgotten that even they possessed teeth; how else could they graze the grasses of the pasture? It was only those who preyed, like the wolves and jackals, who turned their teeth to evil ends. If you pulled their own fangs those beasts would take another's teeth and claws, perhaps even the broad flat teeth of sheep, and turn them to evil purposes.

The bold sheep knew that the fangs and claws they possessed had not changed them. They still grazed like other sheep, and raised their lambs in the spring, and greeted their friend the dog as he walked among them. But they could not quell the terror of the flock, which rose in them like some ancient dark smoky spirit and could not be damped by reason, nor dispelled by the light of day.

So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.

They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Charles Riggs, (C) 1997
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 4:28:43 PM EDT
My rules are simple.
1. If you can aviod a situation then do so.
2. If you can't then do what you have to do to survive whatever it takes.
3. Dead people have no worries, if your choice is life or death choose life and then worry about what the hell just happened.
4. I hope to hell I never have to go through a life/death situation where I have to make this kind of decision.

BTW, Does CCW'ing a 500 S&W magnum count as a rifle or is it still in the pistol category?
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 9:57:21 PM EDT
Honestly, I agree with most everything that Duke stated.

I mean no offence, but there are rules to survival in a civilized society. If you wish to remain free or with a penny in your bank account for the next 20 or so years you would do good to learn them. If you shoot someone with no regards to the rules you will end up in jail or sued and broke. Worse yet, someone innocent could be hurt or killed.

My CCW instructor exlained several things that I won't forget.

Don't look for a fight.

Run when you can.

Shoot to STOP, not kill. They will usually die, but that was not your intent. It helps when being questioned by a less than ethical lawyer. If an officer see's that you've put 12 in his chest and reloaded he might think it was a little exsesive. You or I might not, but he might and that WILL make all of the difference.

Keep the thought out of your head that if you pull your weapon from the holster that you MUST use it. This is stupid. If the offender sees the gun and starts to run you probably shouldn't shoot him. If you do, it will be in the back and it will be murder. Good luck.

THe only critique that I have at all with Dukes list is the elbow shot. Let me explain my thinking a little.

I, as a civilian citizen, much like an officer am responsible for every shot that leaves my weapon. EVERY shot. An elbow is too small of a target, even for most of us. I shoot several times a month and shoot competitivley and even I know that I will miss an elbow in the heat of the fight with adrenaline rushing. With all of that adrenaline and everything moving quickly I proabably won't be paying attention to what is beyond that elbow. I would feel better with center mass shots. If he's hiding, I'm retreating. If he steps back out to shoot at me, I will attempt to shoot first. I would rather die than kill an innocent person.

Keep up the good work Duke, I think the list is pretty solid and will help (with your explanations) get a good amount of the peoples attention.

(forgive any spelling errors, it's late and I don't feel like spell checking right now:) )

Link Posted: 12/1/2007 11:29:55 PM EDT
I cant wait to read it tomorrow morning Duke.

Actually, this morning. I cant sleep.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:46:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GaryM:
BTW, Does CCW'ing a 500 S&W magnum count as a rifle or is it still in the pistol category?


Not sure there Gary. Your gonna have to let me shoot it sometime before I could give an answer...
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 10:08:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 10:14:17 AM EDT by eric10mm]
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 10:12:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 10:23:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Always go home for supper.


This being the important part IMHO
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 6:49:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eric10mm:

Originally Posted By Brother Kane:
Here are my 3 rules of survival

Here are mine.

Always cheat.
Always win.
Always go home for supper.


I agree with this. Even as a future LEO I understand all the protocals and use of force continuum that legally binds police officers, but IMHO all that shit goes right out the window when your actually being shot at. In that instance I will do WHATEVER it takes to ensure that I do not go home in a bag at the end of it. I firmly believe that it is better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 7:46:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rsteinb:

Originally Posted By GaryM:
BTW, Does CCW'ing a 500 S&W magnum count as a rifle or is it still in the pistol category?


Not sure there Gary. Your gonna have to let me shoot it sometime before I could give an answer...

It will be at the next CMMG match so check your insurance carrier to se if they cover wrists damaged while shooting

BTW, I plan on bringing at least 3 different loadings so you can choose your level of masochistic pleasure....
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 8:21:44 AM EDT
Don't be disturbed by the blood...


Vermin will bleed...
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