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Posted: 9/5/2013 4:34:52 PM EDT
I had stopped by our gun club this evening and was chatting with one of our members.  This member is a Vietnam vet and a retired police officer.  He donates his time on Thursday evenings teaching rifle marksmanship and safety to Juniors ( 10 - 17 year olds ) as part of our club junior program.





He told me about his recent encounter with a State Trooper.  He was going into the Stewarts Shop in Modena, NY, and as he was going in, the trooper was on his way out.  Our member said, "Good Morning", to the trooper, the trooper responded with "good morning", then looked up at the hat our member was wearing, and with a snide tone, said "nice hat".  Our member was wearing a black ball cap style hat with gold NRA lettering.





Our member conducted his business in Stewarts, walked out, and found the trooper waiting for him.


"Sir, do you have a weapon?"  Our member thought the question odd, and said as much.  They had a discussion on "reasonable suspection" and "probable cause".  Once the trooper saw the retired LEO credentials, it was "have a nice day".  I'm sure us regular schmoes would have faired less well.  Magazine round counts?





I find the encounter disturbing.  Think about a NRA sticker on your car, or a BFL logo.  There is at least one trooper in Ulster County who thinks a pro gun symbol deserves further attention.
 
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 5:01:04 PM EDT
Recruited from empire of bloomburgia, downstate bullshit
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 5:09:27 PM EDT
I hate to admit it but I took off my bfl magnet when safe act passed for just this reason.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 5:48:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2013 6:24:22 AM EDT by mag162]
FTNYSP warning posted

All happy now
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 5:57:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ftwkma:
-----
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Wrong forum.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 6:04:07 PM EDT
But but but....................they won't arrest anybody or confiscate your guns

Their all on our side
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 6:27:57 PM EDT
Just my .02 I would never wear anything related to firearms while carrying. Whether a Trooper or a BG I keep my shit secret.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 6:29:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Extorris:

Wrong forum.
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By ftwkma:
-----

Wrong forum.

Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:18:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:

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Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By ftwkma:
-----

Wrong forum.



What's this about?
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:20:25 PM EDT
A NY court just ruled it is illegal for a police officer to ask during a traffic stop if you are carrying a weapon.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:20:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shqype:
A NY court just ruled it is illegal for a police officer to ask during a traffic stop if you are carrying a weapon.
View Quote


Really?  Sweet!
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:21:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By highspeedforlife:
Just my .02 I would never wear anything related to firearms while carrying. Whether a Trooper or a BG I keep my shit secret.
View Quote


So, forfeit your 1st amendment rights to exercise what's left of your 2nd?  
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:30:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By widerstehe:

What's this about?
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Originally Posted By widerstehe:
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By ftwkma:
-----

Wrong forum.

What's this about?

Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:36:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By widerstehe:


So, forfeit your 1st amendment rights to exercise what's left of your 2nd?  
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Originally Posted By widerstehe:
Originally Posted By highspeedforlife:
Just my .02 I would never wear anything related to firearms while carrying. Whether a Trooper or a BG I keep my shit secret.


So, forfeit your 1st amendment rights to exercise what's left of your 2nd?  

Nope. Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Know when OPSEC is more important than politics.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:37:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2013 3:53:44 AM EDT by highspeedforlife]
Edited.

What I had intended to say was:

If I choose not to wear something it is not giving up my right, simply being tactful in my use of it. Similar to when you meet someone with a baby - the first amendment allows you to say they have an ugly baby, however I would advise against it.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:49:52 PM EDT
Thought there was no more cop bashing in this forum!!?? Where's a moderator when you need one?
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:51:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shqype:
A NY court just ruled it is illegal for a police officer to ask during a traffic stop if you are carrying a weapon.
View Quote

Cite?
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 7:52:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dvldgusmc:
Thought there was no more cop bashing in this forum!!?? Where's a moderator when you need one?
View Quote

Grow a thicker skin.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 8:09:25 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dvldgusmc:


Thought there was no more cop bashing in this forum!!?? Where's a moderator when you need one?
View Quote


Yeah this is a total emergency...someone call in air support...



 
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 8:37:55 PM EDT
My mothers friend who lived upstairs when she was 15 told her that her cousin's friend got hassled by the Police.

The point is, this is not even a first hand "story".
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 9:16:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By scosgt:


The point is, this is not even a first hand "story".
View Quote


Nothing on this forum is first hand to anyone else.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 9:49:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By cas:


Nothing on this forum is first hand to anyone else.
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Originally Posted By cas:
Originally Posted By scosgt:


The point is, this is not even a first hand "story".


Nothing on this forum is first hand to anyone else.


It would be if he was the one who had the encounter.
Link Posted: 9/5/2013 10:46:41 PM EDT
I don't think the OP is bashing. I think he is asking a question and trying to stimulate conversation. I think there is a line drawn for cop bashing and he has not crossed it. I'm sure mods are watching......always watching.








Link Posted: 9/6/2013 1:07:49 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By highspeedforlife:
And fuck the 1st Amendment. When you carry a gun people tend to listen.
View Quote



I'm guessing that came out wrong.  The first amendment is kind of cool as well.  
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 2:03:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By widerstehe:


Really?  Sweet!
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Originally Posted By widerstehe:
Originally Posted By Shqype:
A NY court just ruled it is illegal for a police officer to ask during a traffic stop if you are carrying a weapon.


Really?  Sweet!


Not quite, more that it said you must have specific suspicion that the person(s) you've stopped may have a weapon, as opposed to asking as a rule if there are any weapons or using the reasoning that there are a lot of weapons being carried in the area.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ny-court-of-appeals/1618463.html
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 3:51:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By 41magluva:



I'm guessing that came out wrong.  The first amendment is kind of cool as well.  
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Originally Posted By 41magluva:
Originally Posted By highspeedforlife:
And fuck the 1st Amendment. When you carry a gun people tend to listen.



I'm guessing that came out wrong.  The first amendment is kind of cool as well.  


May have had a beer or two prior to posting.

All of the amendments are okay in my book.

Link Posted: 9/6/2013 3:55:59 AM EDT
shit.  I wear my BFL logo hat daily and usually some sort of firearm related t-shirt 2-3 times a week sometimes. I  have my BFL logo magnet and door magnets advertising my FFL on my truck daily, in  addition to various window stickers from SCOPE, NRA, NYSRP, Gadsden etc.  Never been hassled.

This guy must have run into a real ass.  I won't change anything about my attire in fear of being profiled.  Want to profile me, profile me.  I have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 3:56:42 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By scosgt:


My mothers friend who lived upstairs when she was 15 told her that her cousin's friend got hassled by the Police.



The point is, this is not even a first hand "story".
View Quote
I understand the sentiment, but this is not a friend of a friends cousin type story.  This was told to me by the guy it happened to at about 6 PM last evening.  If our club member were to create an account here and type it himself, he would be a '13er with a post count of one, which is to say, zero credibility.  And our member is a retired LEO, so I believe him as I can't think of any motivation on his part to make it up.



I think the cop bashing accusation was directed to a post about 4 or 5 after my original post.  Nothing in my OP can be construed as  cop bashing, not even toward the trooper involved.  It was merely a restatement of events.



 
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 4:24:21 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By scosgt:
My mothers friend who lived upstairs when she was 15 told her that her cousin's friend got hassled by the Police.

The point is, this is not even a first hand "story".
View Quote


Knowing the OP and the club well, I can confidently state you are wrong in your ASSumption.

Vly, thanks for posting this, but I ain't taking off my Larue hat.
Too bad about the encounter, one bad apple and all that.



Link Posted: 9/6/2013 5:10:24 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Grow a thicker skin.
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By dvldgusmc:
Thought there was no more cop bashing in this forum!!?? Where's a moderator when you need one?

Grow a thicker skin.

This.

Honest and tactful criticism of the actions of Law Enforcement should never be banned.  But in order to be respected the LEOs need to return the favor.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 5:48:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By USMC6177:

This.

Honest and tactful criticism of the actions of Law Enforcement should never be banned.  But in order to be respected the LEOs need to return the favor.
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Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By dvldgusmc:
Thought there was no more cop bashing in this forum!!?? Where's a moderator when you need one?

Grow a thicker skin.

This.

Honest and tactful criticism of the actions of Law Enforcement should never be banned.  But in order to be respected the LEOs need to return the favor.



THIS.

Link Posted: 9/6/2013 5:54:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2013 5:56:10 AM EDT by Extorris]
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Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Honest and tactful criticism of the actions of Law Enforcement should never be banned.
View Quote

I agree but that's not what was posted and removed by a mod on page 1.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:01:33 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USMC6177:

This.

Honest and tactful criticism of the actions of Law Enforcement should never be banned.  But in order to be respected the LEOs need to return the favor.
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Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By dvldgusmc:
Thought there was no more cop bashing in this forum!!?? Where's a moderator when you need one?

Grow a thicker skin.

This.

Honest and tactful criticism of the actions of Law Enforcement should never be banned.  But in order to be respected the LEOs need to return the favor.


Agreed
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:03:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Extorris:

I agree but that's not what was posted and removed by a mod on page 1.
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Honest and tactful criticism of the actions of Law Enforcement should never be banned.

I agree but that's not what was posted and removed by a mod on page 1.

Moderator is a good friend, but on this he was a bit over zealous.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:09:52 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By scosgt:

It would be if he was the one who had the encounter.
View Quote


For him.  Once you read it, it's second hand.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:44:19 AM EDT
People need to just take a moment to realize that not everyone is against us and not everyone is for us.    Cop bashing is stupid, they are not our enemy, but I wouldn't consider them friends to our side either.  

My point I guess is that be it law enforcement, military, your church, people at your bingo club or your neighbors, hell even your gun club is going to have people that are against us, just as they might be for us.

I don't know guys my heads all fucked up right now, I'm just saying be smart and don't go thinking one group that comprises tons of people is unanimously for or against us.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:44:52 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Cite?
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By Shqype:
A NY court just ruled it is illegal for a police officer to ask during a traffic stop if you are carrying a weapon.

Cite?

I don't have the story I usually cite (I may get it later) but here is another:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Police-Ask-Drivers-Guns-NY-Traffic-Stops-Court-Ruling-Founded-Suspicious-184000001.html

"The court majority said police cannot, simply as a protective measure, routinely ask the occupants of a vehicle about weapons, though under established case law officers can tell motorists to get out in order to get a better look at them... The state's highest court ruled Tuesday that police can't simply ask stopped motorists if they have a gun or other weapon but need a "founded suspicion" in order to ask."

In other words, "the safety of the officer" is not a valid reason.

That said, it clearly doesn't stop police officers / JBTs from harassing people.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:46:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2013 6:47:27 AM EDT by Castillo]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shqype:

I don't have the story I usually cite (I may get it later) but here is another:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Police-Ask-Drivers-Guns-NY-Traffic-Stops-Court-Ruling-Founded-Suspicious-184000001.html

"The court majority said police cannot, simply as a protective measure, routinely ask the occupants of a vehicle about weapons, though under established case law officers can tell motorists to get out in order to get a better look at them... The state's highest court ruled Tuesday that police can't simply ask stopped motorists if they have a gun or other weapon but need a "founded suspicion" in order to ask."

In other words, "the safety of the officer" is not a valid reason.

That said, it clearly doesn't stop police officers / JBTs from harassing people.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shqype:
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By Shqype:
A NY court just ruled it is illegal for a police officer to ask during a traffic stop if you are carrying a weapon.

Cite?

I don't have the story I usually cite (I may get it later) but here is another:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Police-Ask-Drivers-Guns-NY-Traffic-Stops-Court-Ruling-Founded-Suspicious-184000001.html

"The court majority said police cannot, simply as a protective measure, routinely ask the occupants of a vehicle about weapons, though under established case law officers can tell motorists to get out in order to get a better look at them... The state's highest court ruled Tuesday that police can't simply ask stopped motorists if they have a gun or other weapon but need a "founded suspicion" in order to ask."

In other words, "the safety of the officer" is not a valid reason.

That said, it clearly doesn't stop police officers / JBTs from harassing people.


I cited the courts opinion on page 1. Safety of the officer is a valid reason, but there has to be suspicion that 'criminality is afoot', not merely a routine traffic stop.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:50:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Extorris:

I agree but that's not what was posted and removed by a mod on page 1.
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Honest and tactful criticism of the actions of Law Enforcement should never be banned.

I agree but that's not what was posted and removed by a mod on page 1.

No doubt.  

Just saying that me personally I don't respond to a few posters here specifically because they are PD and would cry bashing if confronted on the shit they spew.  I like being on ARFcom and I respect a number of the LEOs that are part of our HTF.  But others can come off as entitled and condescending.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:53:08 AM EDT
As a LE member of this site, the best advice I can give to all our fellow NY citizens is:


Don't trust ANY LE Officer unless you know him/her very, very well........like family


Most of us will not enforce this law or even mess with you over it.......and we are as disgruntled as anyone else.


But, you may just run into "Officer friendly" during casual conversation and next thing you know you are in handcuffs because he/she was actually supportive of this law.  You have to keep in mind that LE is a direct reflection of the people in our state........the same people that voted the idiots into office that created and passed this BS law....


........Please, please, keep that in mind and protect yourself accordingly.......I cant stress that enough.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:56:14 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By crwdplsr:
As a LE member of this site, the best advice I can give to all our fellow NY citizens is:
Don't trust ANY LE Officer unless you know him/her very, very well........like family
View Quote

Bingo.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 6:59:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
People need to just take a moment to realize that not everyone is against us and not everyone is for us.    Cop bashing is stupid, they are not our enemy, but I wouldn't consider them friends to our side either.  

My point I guess is that be it law enforcement, military, your church, people at your bingo club or your neighbors, hell even your gun club is going to have people that are against us, just as they might be for us.

I don't know guys my heads all fucked up right now, I'm just saying be smart and don't go thinking one group that comprises tons of people is unanimously for or against us.
View Quote


Ciraxis,
I read your post on GD about your dog. Sorry for your loss. Losing a dear pet sucks.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 7:13:15 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Extorris:

Bingo.
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By crwdplsr:
As a LE member of this site, the best advice I can give to all our fellow NY citizens is:
Don't trust ANY LE Officer unless you know him/her very, very well........like family

Bingo.

Stop your cop bashing!
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 7:19:12 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jake1967:


Ciraxis,
I read your post on GD about your dog. Sorry for your loss. Losing a dear pet sucks.
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Originally Posted By Jake1967:
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
People need to just take a moment to realize that not everyone is against us and not everyone is for us.    Cop bashing is stupid, they are not our enemy, but I wouldn't consider them friends to our side either.  

My point I guess is that be it law enforcement, military, your church, people at your bingo club or your neighbors, hell even your gun club is going to have people that are against us, just as they might be for us.

I don't know guys my heads all fucked up right now, I'm just saying be smart and don't go thinking one group that comprises tons of people is unanimously for or against us.


Ciraxis,
I read your post on GD about your dog. Sorry for your loss. Losing a dear pet sucks.



thanks, hopefully my above post comes across ok, like i said my mind is fucked today
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 7:37:53 AM EDT
Sorry for your loss my friend.
Prayers sent.




Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:



thanks, hopefully my above post comes across ok, like i said my mind is fucked today
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Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
Originally Posted By Jake1967:
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
People need to just take a moment to realize that not everyone is against us and not everyone is for us.    Cop bashing is stupid, they are not our enemy, but I wouldn't consider them friends to our side either.  

My point I guess is that be it law enforcement, military, your church, people at your bingo club or your neighbors, hell even your gun club is going to have people that are against us, just as they might be for us.

I don't know guys my heads all fucked up right now, I'm just saying be smart and don't go thinking one group that comprises tons of people is unanimously for or against us.


Ciraxis,
I read your post on GD about your dog. Sorry for your loss. Losing a dear pet sucks.



thanks, hopefully my above post comes across ok, like i said my mind is fucked today

Link Posted: 9/6/2013 7:49:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Stop your cop bashing!
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By crwdplsr:
As a LE member of this site, the best advice I can give to all our fellow NY citizens is:
Don't trust ANY LE Officer unless you know him/her very, very well........like family

Bingo.

Stop your cop bashing!


I don't think the OP is bashing by any means.....people need to be reminded to not become complacent, and believe that is his point.  There are LEOs that I work with, albeit very few.... Less than 10%, who support the SAFE act, you never know who you are going to get.....and I don't like those odds.

What I stated is reality and sound advice.....YMMV
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 8:07:51 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By crwdplsr:


I don't think the OP is bashing by any means.....people need to be reminded to not become complacent, and believe that is his point.  There are LEOs that I work with, albeit very few.... Less than 10%, who support the SAFE act, you never know who you are going to get.....and I don't like those odds.

What I stated is reality and sound advice.....YMMV
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Originally Posted By crwdplsr:
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By crwdplsr:
As a LE member of this site, the best advice I can give to all our fellow NY citizens is:
Don't trust ANY LE Officer unless you know him/her very, very well........like family

Bingo.

Stop your cop bashing!


I don't think the OP is bashing by any means.....people need to be reminded to not become complacent, and believe that is his point.  There are LEOs that I work with, albeit very few.... Less than 10%, who support the SAFE act, you never know who you are going to get.....and I don't like those odds.

What I stated is reality and sound advice.....YMMV

Sarcasm meter needs calibration my friend.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 8:25:05 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Castillo:


I cited the courts opinion on page 1. Safety of the officer is a valid reason, but there has to be suspicion that 'criminality is afoot', not merely a routine traffic stop.
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Originally Posted By Castillo:
Originally Posted By Shqype:
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By Shqype:
A NY court just ruled it is illegal for a police officer to ask during a traffic stop if you are carrying a weapon.

Cite?

I don't have the story I usually cite (I may get it later) but here is another:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Police-Ask-Drivers-Guns-NY-Traffic-Stops-Court-Ruling-Founded-Suspicious-184000001.html

"The court majority said police cannot, simply as a protective measure, routinely ask the occupants of a vehicle about weapons, though under established case law officers can tell motorists to get out in order to get a better look at them... The state's highest court ruled Tuesday that police can't simply ask stopped motorists if they have a gun or other weapon but need a "founded suspicion" in order to ask."

In other words, "the safety of the officer" is not a valid reason.

That said, it clearly doesn't stop police officers / JBTs from harassing people.


I cited the courts opinion on page 1. Safety of the officer is a valid reason, but there has to be suspicion that 'criminality is afoot', not merely a routine traffic stop.

An officer cannot legally pull you over for a routine traffic stop and ask if you have any weapons as a precaution for his own safety.  He needs reasonable suspicion of a crime.

My question for lawyers and LEOs: if an average citizen is pulled over for a routine traffic stop and is asked by the LEO if he has any weapons, how should this person respond?
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 8:35:58 AM EDT
We are saying the same thing.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 8:40:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Stop your cop bashing!
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By crwdplsr:
As a LE member of this site, the best advice I can give to all our fellow NY citizens is:
Don't trust ANY LE Officer unless you know him/her very, very well........like family

Bingo.

Stop your cop bashing!

Well I don't think you should trust anyone, period.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 9:10:49 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:





Sarcasm meter needs calibration my friend.
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Originally Posted By HiramRanger:



Originally Posted By crwdplsr:



I don't think the OP is bashing by any means.....people need to be reminded to not become complacent, and believe that is his point.  There are LEOs that I work with, albeit very few.... Less than 10%, who support the SAFE act, you never know who you are going to get.....and I don't like those odds.



What I stated is reality and sound advice.....YMMV


Sarcasm meter needs calibration my friend.


This is a first. I've never known anyone to take you seriously.







 
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