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1/16/2020 9:48:49 PM
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:55:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 12:17:57 AM EST by YOPD]
I know, the title has nothing to do with the story, but hey, I'm still pretty spun up from what happened.

Tonight, I was just sitting in the kitchen watching tv, and I hear a noise outside the front door.

I paused the show, and listened. Someone tried the front door knob.

At least, I thought that is what I heard. My mind was racing. Could it have been an animal? If it was, why would an animal be fucking with the front door knob? If it's a person, why would they be trying the door knob on a house with three cars in the driveway and the tv on inside?

Fuck this, this is bad, this could be pretty fucking bad! I jump up, draw the gun I always have on me, and hit the switch for the outside light. I double check the door locks, run to the bedroom, wake up Linda, and tell her what's going on as I load the AR. She gets on the phone with 911, I haul ass downstairs to make sure doors and windows are locked, and that Linda's dad knows what's going on. I also check the motion sensor lights to make sure they are on, and return upstairs, where we all gather in the kitchen.

We both talk to 911 for what seems like about 5 minutes (checking my cell phone, it was 5 min 35 sec, so the adrenaline hi and low hasn't screwed me up to much), and then the 911 operator tells me to please *put the guns away.* (more on my opinion of this later).

So we put the guns in the safe, and wait.

We wait some more.

We wait 10 minutes.

We wait 15 minutes.

After almost 30 minutes, a patrol car rolls up our street, looking around with their spotlight.

The rest of the story is really damn dull, but I'll sum it up saying that the deputy was pretty cool, very helpful, seemed genuinely concerned, and when I mentioned that I knew that there wasn't ever a deputy working our area, he was very honest. Seemed like a good guy. Wish I had got his name.

** This is the part that I, personally, now have an entirely different outlook on, the whole "please put your guns away" part. Folks, if you came this far, or if you just skipped to this part, you may not ever find yourself in the same type of situation I was in tonight, so please don't think that it will take 30 minutes for a cop to get to to your house just because that's how long it took for us. If you live where it takes 30 minutes, or longer, for emergency folks to get to where you live, you likely already know it.

We live in this area:
Washougal Area
The deputy said he was up by 4th Plain and 164th Ave, so this is how far he had to drive:
Google Map with route

I am not trying to get a deputy in trouble for what he said, in case some command level type staffer at the office decides he should not have been so forthcoming, but even he agreed, the next time I am somewhere that it might take 30 minutes, hell, even 10 minutes, for help to arrive, I'm not putting the fucking guns away until I know they have arrived.

God forbid Jonathon or anyone out where he lives needs a cop or two. Tack on another 10-15 minutes, maybe more.

(unfortunately, I feel the need to add a disclaimer, maybe it's just because I am in the pissed off phase of the overall experience.)
Remember, you read it on the internet. If you think that everything you read on the internet is good enough to live your life by, then you are a first class fucking idiot. Having a gun in your hand or nearby and not secured will make cops nervous, and may have an adverse effect on your interaction with them, up to and possibly including you being treated very improperly. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's the way it is. Use your best judgment, and don't try to pin anything on me if you read what I wrote and decide that you will ignore the 911 operator for any reason. I am not giving you advice on how to ignore emergency workers, or how to handle any kind of situation, I am only giving my opinion based on my experience. After all, you read it on the fucking internet.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 1:10:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 1:11:07 AM EST by HawkCreek]
Maybe I missed something but how would the operator know if you put the guns away or not? If it came to that why couldnt you "go firm" in a room (with the rest of your family) and WITH your firearm(s) and wait for the deputy to come by? If you wanted to go talk to him either safety and holster or leave the firearm with a famliy member and go have a chat with the officer.
I'm not trying to flame you here and I've never been in that situation so I cant say for sure what I would do but thought I would add my .02
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 4:03:09 AM EST
Did you say you put the guns in the safe?

Because some dumb ass (sorry R-32) that doesn't have an interest in your safety tells you to?

I'm confused.

Link Posted: 7/21/2008 5:10:55 AM EST
You are well within your rights, morally and legally, to go about armed on your own property. The directions given by the 911 dispatcher do not have the color of law (think: Joe Horn). It's best to remain armed until the fuzz shows up. If battle has not broken out by then, just put the gun(s) aside and engage Deputy Knock&talk, preferably outside, driveway or porch. For his safety, he'll ask about weapons, but, unless he's either a dick or paranoiac, he'll have no cause to get 'em or see 'em. Castel doctrine or not, your personal safety is YOUR responsibility. Per the supremes, a California case, circa 1968, and I think another in 1974, law enforcement bears no, I repeat: zero responsibility for anyone's personal well being. They are charged with civil order and public safety. 99.9% of leos would dearly love to be able to protect every one of us, but, it's neither practical nor possible. Even in areas where typical response times are only a few minutes, that's just not good enough when it comes to stopping or preventing a crime. The vast majority of a cops' day is investigation and waving the flag. Not catching robbers/rapists/burglars in the act. Call your local precinct, ask how many deputies/officers are on duty in your sector on a typical shift. Compare that to the local population numbers, then map the nearest copshop and donut houses, you'll begin to get a more accurate assessment of how your next 911 adventure is likely to play out. Just don't be too hard on Deputy Doright when he shows up. Your situation is just one of many he's involved in, every damn night. It may seem that the Hounds of Hell have been unleashed on you at the time, but, it may be a pretty routine occurrence in his working day.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:29:37 AM EST

A couple months back, our neighbors caught a couple kids breaking into their garage and cars. We kept the little shits there for the 20+ minutes until the first Snoho county mounty showed up. I'd hate to see the response if we lived out in the boonies like Sultan, etc.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:47:34 AM EST
I understand what everyone is saying about my rights, what is right, etc., but I gotta admit, I expected to hear from the 911 operator, at some point, to put the guns away. This was normal when I was a deputy, at some point we usually asked our dispatcher to ask the folks in the house to put them away before we arrived. I wouldn't want to roll up to a house full of nervous unknown quantities with guns, and that is exactly what I am to them, same as everyone else.

The lesson I learned is that for where I live, putting them away before I hear the cops knock on the door seems like not a good idea when the outside of the house hasn't been checked out yet. The 911 operator is going to work with the cops to try to ensure their safety, too, possibly at the risk of mine. The point is presented here for others to consider so they can decide what may be the best course for their particular situation. YMMV.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:05:55 AM EST
I got in a shit-load of trouble once for yelling at a calltaker. She told the calling party that " YOU NEED TO PUT THE GUN AWAY OR IM NOT SENDING A DEPUTY.... THEY WILL NOT COME OUT IF YOU HAVE A GUN!!!"... It was a good Burg in progress.

I NEVER tell a caller to disarm themselves. I stay on the phone with them the ENTIRE TIME till the deputy/officer arrives, tell them what is going on, then tell them when they can put the gun down ( as in out of their hands please, in a safe mannor). Then I ask them to open the door after the deputy/officer knocks. I have NEVER had a deputy/officer say they were not going to respond till a gun was put away, and I have never had a deputy tell me to tell the calling party to put the gun away until they were all set up, and ready to do the search of the property.

Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:52:27 AM EST
I will occasionally ask the call receiver to ask them to put weapons away depending on the nature of the call. I work in a very rural area of KC and I expect people to own and protect themselves with firearms...BUT...when you call 911 saying that you hear sounds around your house and you have a pistol out I am not going to start making more (probably louder than the raccoon you called the police on) "sounds" around the side of your house.

I am sure that many people here will disagree, but in my mind at least, when I get to a call I am in charge. I get to decide who is carrying weapons, and so far in my career that has never been a homeowner.

Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:00:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By R-32:
I NEVER tell a caller to disarm themselves. I stay on the phone with them the ENTIRE TIME till the deputy/officer arrives, tell them what is going on, then tell them when they can put the gun down ( as in out of their hands please, in a safe mannor).

You do realize that in my case, if you were the 911 operator, you would have had me on the phone for a half an hour? Would that really fly where you work?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:43:27 PM EST
see you should have called Washougal police instead, i don't think I've ever seen less than three cars show up for anything in the 17 years i lived there
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:58:31 PM EST
Do you know how you get a hold of the washougal police at 0030 on a sunday night? Through 911. I was hoping they would send someone from Washougal initially, and then let a deputy take over, I am not far from the eastern city limit. It didn't happen.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 3:33:15 PM EST
I was just being a smart alec, i can see why they don't send many officers that far east in clark county, but I'm surprised that the nearest one was so far away. Washougal just doesn't have that much stuff over there for people to get in trouble other than people speeding on the roads it seemed, were there footprints on the ground under your windows or anything?
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 4:55:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By YOPD:
If you live where it takes 30 minutes, or longer, for emergency folks to get to where you live, you likely already know it.


Yup. Too bad I found out the hard way. I can tell you that response time to a DV call was slightly less than a trespasser requiring forcable removal call. Still, no response time has ever came close to being able to protect any of the parties involved.

This was before I got interested in guns. Relying on others for help, then getting failed, does wonders to motivate self-sufficiency.



Originally Posted By BJohnson383:
...when you call 911 saying that you hear sounds around your house and you have a pistol out I am not going to start making more (probably louder than the raccoon you called the police on) "sounds" around the side of your house.

I am sure that many people here will disagree, but in my mind at least, when I get to a call I am in charge. I get to decide who is carrying weapons.

I got no problem with this at all. Just don't expect I'll but putting my guns in the safe before I see a patrol car coming down the street. Afterall, if I called for an LEO, and the operator tells me one is almost there, I'm certainly not gonna be surprised to see a car driving down the street.

OTOH: It's those officers shining flashlights in my windows, and tryng to peek around the rooms, before they even knock, and I havn't called them, that gets me suspicious and a little bit more likely to reach for a weapon.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 5:19:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By BusySquirrel:


Originally Posted By BJohnson383:
...when you call 911 saying that you hear sounds around your house and you have a pistol out I am not going to start making more (probably louder than the raccoon you called the police on) "sounds" around the side of your house.

I am sure that many people here will disagree, but in my mind at least, when I get to a call I am in charge. I get to decide who is carrying weapons.

I got no problem with this at all. Just don't expect I'll but putting my guns in the safe before I see a patrol car coming down the street. Afterall, if I called for an LEO, and the operator tells me one is almost there, I'm certainly not gonna be surprised to see a car driving down the street.

OTOH: It's those officers shining flashlights in my windows, and tryng to peek around the rooms, before they even knock, and I havn't called them, that gets me suspicious and a little bit more likely to reach for a weapon.


I agree with not wanting to put your guns away, but I generally park about a block away and walk in to calls like this...that way that bad guy doesent know that I am there. Subsequently, neither does the homeowner.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 5:35:40 PM EST
Next time post on the WAHTF. We'll be there faster

In all seriousness, glad you're all okay.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 7:08:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By BJohnson383:
Subsequently, neither does the homeowner.


That's why the operator is supposed to inform me when you're arriving, not that you're on the way, and may get here at some point in the future. Afterall, we want the same outcome, right? So we're on the same team. The community needs law enforcement, and law enforcement definately needs community support to be able to do their job. So making a step towards "extra" communication isn't a bad thing.

Unless you're worried the BG is tapped into my phone line. In which case they're probably more prepared than either of us.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 2:11:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Procyon:
Next time post on the WAHTF. We'll be there faster

You may not know just how right you might be.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:42:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By YOPD:
You do realize that in my case, if you were the 911 operator, you would have had me on the phone for a half an hour? Would that really fly where you work?


Would not be a first, wont be a last.

If your call dictates the need, you are going to get it.... You arm yourself with a firearm because you think there is a person trying to break in... I will stay on the line.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 11:39:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By R-32:
If your call dictates the need, you are going to get it.... You arm yourself with a firearm because you think there is a person trying to break in... I will stay on the line.

Well, at least we would have a nice chat. We could talk about all the idiots on ARFcom.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 11:58:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By YOPD:

Originally Posted By R-32:
If your call dictates the need, you are going to get it.... You arm yourself with a firearm because you think there is a person trying to break in... I will stay on the line.

Well, at least we would have a nice chat. We could talk about all the idiots on ARFcom.


Just dont bring up the GD...

The cops would get there, clear, and have their paperwork finished before we could finish.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 5:38:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By R-32:
...I stay on the phone with them the ENTIRE TIME till the deputy/officer arrives...



That's more than what the 911 operator did for me Friday
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