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Posted: 4/1/2008 10:20:55 AM EST
On 4-1, I and two other attorneys appeared in Cook Co. court to argue the County's Motion to Dismiss our Amended Complaint challenging the Cook Co. assault weapons ban. Our original complaint was dismissed several months back, we were given leave to file an amended one, and the county then filed a motion to dismiss that.

Our amended complaint has 6 counts, raising equal protection, due process, overbreadth, 2nd Amendment, and other challenges. I argued the overbreadth and equal protection counts. The overbreadth alleges that the definitions in the statute are so vague that the ordinance bans guns that no rational person could consider an assualt weapon (like Winchester SuperX and Browning Short Trac BARs), and the equal protection count alleges that the section of the ordinance that bans guns specifically by name (i.e., "Bushmaster XM15, Olympic Arms PCR, Ruger Mini-14", etc) violates E.P. because it treats the owner of a Bushmaster differently than the owner of a virtually identical, yet not banned, Stag Arms rifle (for instance).

Long story short, the arguments went pretty well, I think. Better than the last ones did, anyway. It's obviously an uphill battle, challenging a Cook Co. ordinance in Cook Co. court, but that's what we have to do. The judge took the case under advisement and will issue a written ruling by mail at some point in the future. We think she might actually sit on it until after Heller comes down in June. If that case goes our way, it could have a significant impact on how this case goes.
Link Posted: 4/1/2008 11:16:21 AM EST
Awesome. Fantastic job!
Link Posted: 4/1/2008 12:27:16 PM EST
Outstanding!

Keep up the good fight!

You may be right about her waiting until Heller is decided.
Link Posted: 4/1/2008 1:15:51 PM EST
What were the other points and was anything brought up about CCW?

is there anything we can do to help this at all??

Great work as well in getting all this togther and presenting this. Keep up the Excellent work!!!!
Link Posted: 4/1/2008 1:30:25 PM EST
Thanks for doing all this!
Link Posted: 4/1/2008 1:50:37 PM EST
Dinner on me. It's the least I can do for all your doing for me.
Link Posted: 4/1/2008 2:52:53 PM EST
I applaud your efforts!
Link Posted: 4/2/2008 3:05:59 PM EST
GREAT JOB!!

Since I am not an attorney, some questions still remain:

1. Does the lawsuit mean that enforcement is on hold or that crimes associated with the ordinance may be dismissed due to this lawsuit?

2. Does the AWB/HiCap Mag ban apply to only un-incorporated areas of Cook and certain suburbs which agree to the ordinance?

3. If the second part of Question#2 is true, how does one know which suburbs have agreed to enforce the ordinance?

4. Will Heller affect any or all Chicago and Cook gun laws without someone with standing bringing a specific lawsuit ?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Link Posted: 4/2/2008 5:03:12 PM EST
eswanson, thanks.

Up until now, I had no idea of the lengths you go to in order to preserve our rights.
Link Posted: 4/2/2008 5:11:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/2/2008 5:12:05 PM EST by SC-Texas]
Hell . . . if I ever come back to chicago Shitcago for a sailing regatta I'll buy you dinner!
Link Posted: 4/2/2008 6:50:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/3/2008 2:58:12 AM EST
Bumpage for answers to these specific questions.



Originally Posted By DocT:
GREAT JOB!!

Since I am not an attorney, some questions still remain:

1. Does the lawsuit mean that enforcement is on hold or that crimes associated with the ordinance may be dismissed due to this lawsuit?

2. Does the AWB/HiCap Mag ban apply to only un-incorporated areas of Cook and certain suburbs which agree to the ordinance?

3. If the second part of Question#2 is true, how does one know which suburbs have agreed to enforce the ordinance?

4. Will Heller affect any or all Chicago and Cook gun laws without someone with standing bringing a specific lawsuit ?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Link Posted: 4/3/2008 6:31:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/3/2008 7:48:15 AM EST
Great job, eswanson.

Thanks for the update.
Link Posted: 4/3/2008 8:02:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fingerpicker:
Great job, eswanson.

Thanks for the update.


+1

Link Posted: 4/4/2008 1:59:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/4/2008 7:41:11 PM EST
eswanson. A big thank you to you and the other two attorneys.

I hope this issue can gain traction as Heller unfolds.

A long process ahead, no doubt.


JR
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 7:58:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fingerpicker:
Great job, eswanson.

Thanks for the update.


+1
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 11:44:35 AM EST
Sorry, wasn't checking this thread like I should've been.


Originally Posted By DocT:
GREAT JOB!!

Since I am not an attorney, some questions still remain:

1. Does the lawsuit mean that enforcement is on hold or that crimes associated with the ordinance may be dismissed due to this lawsuit?

We had intended to seek a temporary injunction to prevent them from enforcing the ordinance at all. However, they did an end run around this by stating that they wouldn't enforce it against any of our plaintiffs (we have 3). We don't have standing to demand that they not enforce it generally since they agreed not to enforce it against our named plaintiffs. However, I think the county is basically not enforcing it at all until the court challenges are over.

2. Does the AWB/HiCap Mag ban apply to only un-incorporated areas of Cook and certain suburbs which agree to the ordinance?

It applies to all unincorporated parts of the county, and to any municipality that doesn't have its own gun control ordinance, regardless of how strong/weak it may be. Unless a given municipality's ordinances are totally silent on any gun control, the municipality's ordinance will preempt the county one.

3. If the second part of Question#2 is true, how does one know which suburbs have agreed to enforce the ordinance?

You would have to check the village ordinances of whatever suburb you're interested in.

4. Will Heller affect any or all Chicago and Cook gun laws without someone with standing bringing a specific lawsuit ?

Heller alone won't. If Heller establishes the 2nd as an individual right, another lawsuit would have to be brought to challenge the city's handgun ban. Heller won't apply to the states; it only concerns D.C., and the S. Ct. won't issue a broad ruling that would make the 2nd applicable to the states. Future litigation would have to establish that.

Inquiring minds want to know...

Link Posted: 4/5/2008 11:49:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/5/2008 11:51:14 AM EST by eswanson]

Originally Posted By nightwolf357:
What were the other points and was anything brought up about CCW?

We have a 2nd Amendment challenge in there, we have a claim that the county exceeded its home rule authority, we have a due process challenge based on the ordinance being too vague. The 2nd Am. claim is just in there because of Heller, since as we all know the 2nd doesn't (yet) apply to the states. And there's nothing about CCW in there, since the ordinance that we're challenging doesn't have anything in it about CCW.

is there anything we can do to help this at all??

Donate to and/or join the ISRA. They're bankrolling this thing.

Great work as well in getting all this togther and presenting this. Keep up the Excellent work!!!!


I appreciate the gratitude, but the real thanks for this goes to the ISRA - the challenge was their idea, they found the plaintiffs for us, and they're footing the bill. Contrary to the beliefs of some folks, the ISRA is not a "fudd" organization that doesn't care about black rifles. I've been in on a lot of phone conferences and meetings with the President and the Executive Director, and I can tell you that this is a big deal to them.
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 2:06:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By eswanson:

Originally Posted By nightwolf357:
What were the other points and was anything brought up about CCW?

We have a 2nd Amendment challenge in there, we have a claim that the county exceeded its home rule authority, we have a due process challenge based on the ordinance being too vague. The 2nd Am. claim is just in there because of Heller, since as we all know the 2nd doesn't (yet) apply to the states. And there's nothing about CCW in there, since the ordinance that we're challenging doesn't have anything in it about CCW.

is there anything we can do to help this at all??

Donate to and/or join the ISRA. They're bankrolling this thing.

Great work as well in getting all this togther and presenting this. Keep up the Excellent work!!!!


I appreciate the gratitude, but the real thanks for this goes to the ISRA - the challenge was their idea, they found the plaintiffs for us, and they're footing the bill. Contrary to the beliefs of some folks, the ISRA is not a "fudd" organization that doesn't care about black rifles. I've been in on a lot of phone conferences and meetings with the President and the Executive Director, and I can tell you that this is a big deal to them.


That's good to know. I've occasionally sent them money because they're just about all we have in Illinois. Now I can do it with a clear conscience.

Thanks for your work also!
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 5:51:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/30/2008 5:57:19 AM EST by EvilBrownRifle]
Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but I was hoping for a bit of clarification on a point eswanson covered. It's probably obvious, but living in Cook County CYA is really important.

height=8
2. Does the AWB/HiCap Mag ban apply to only un-incorporated areas of Cook and certain suburbs which agree to the ordinance?

It applies to all unincorporated parts of the county, and to any municipality that doesn't have its own gun control ordinance, regardless of how strong/weak it may be. Unless a given municipality's ordinances are totally silent on any gun control, the municipality's ordinance will preempt the county one.


My community, Buffalo Grove, does not have an ordinances related specifically to possession and ownership. However, it does have the following dealer restrictions:

height=8
9.90.020 Sale of firearms prohibited.

No person shall commercially sell for compensation any firearm. (Ord. 94-60 § 2 (part), 1994).

9.90.030 Ammunition.

A. No person shall commercially sell for compensation any ammunition.
B. No person shall engage in the business of manufacturing, assembling, or reloading ammunition to commercially sell for compensation. (Ord. 94-60 § 2 (part), 1994).

9.90.040 Confiscation.

A. Any firearm or ammunition obtained in violation of Section 9.90.020 or 9.90.030 is declared contraband and shall be confiscated.
B. Any firearm or ammunition so confiscated, if not required for evidence, shall be retained for Police Department use or destroyed at the direction of the Village Chief of Police. (Ord. 94-60 § 2 (part), 1994).

9.90.050 Violation--Penalty.

Any person who violates any provision of this Chapter shall be subject to a fine pursuant to Chapter 1.089. (Ord. 94-60 § 2 (part), 1994).


In additon you can't brandish a weapon in the public parks or discharge one in city limits.

My general impression is that this would make Buffalo Grove a home rule community, but I'm no lawyer not did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night or play one on TV. I could easily be wrong. I also know that someting may be technically correct but that someone in the county may decide to charge you on it and let the courts sort it out if there is a gray areay. Any advice taken at my own risk.

BTW, thanks out to eswanson and the ISRA for their efforts. I just reupped at ISRA for the 3 year plan in good part because of this support. It was a dammed surprise when they slipped this one through out of nowhere after we shut down the initial assault.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 7:20:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By eswanson:

Originally Posted By nightwolf357:
What were the other points and was anything brought up about CCW?

We have a 2nd Amendment challenge in there, we have a claim that the county exceeded its home rule authority, we have a due process challenge based on the ordinance being too vague. The 2nd Am. claim is just in there because of Heller, since as we all know the 2nd doesn't (yet) apply to the states. And there's nothing about CCW in there, since the ordinance that we're challenging doesn't have anything in it about CCW.

is there anything we can do to help this at all??

Donate to and/or join the ISRA. They're bankrolling this thing.

Great work as well in getting all this togther and presenting this. Keep up the Excellent work!!!!


I appreciate the gratitude, but the real thanks for this goes to the ISRA - the challenge was their idea, they found the plaintiffs for us, and they're footing the bill. Contrary to the beliefs of some folks, the ISRA is not a "fudd" organization that doesn't care about black rifles. I've been in on a lot of phone conferences and meetings with the President and the Executive Director, and I can tell you that this is a big deal to them.


Outstanding! I'm glad to hear this, and it makes me glad that I've been an ISRA member for years. Please keep us posted on the outcome!
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 9:14:10 AM EST
Don't know how I missed this thread the first time round, but OUT-FRICKEN-STANDING!

Great job eswanson!
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 10:14:43 AM EST
When is the Heller case supposed to be decided?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 12:10:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 12:11:40 PM EST by Yore353]

Originally Posted By nightwolf357:
When is the Heller case supposed to be decided?



Its gonna be either the 9th, the 16th, or the 23rd. On a Monday. I don't think they will go all the way to the 30th with it.

I read they have 24 decisions to make including Heller vs DC before the end of the session.



Be a hell of a birthday present, if they announce a favorable decision on the 30th.

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