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Posted: 7/19/2013 1:10:52 PM EST
Gat guns $299.95
On target $300
Anybody else have any prices?
Is this going to be the standard price?
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 1:13:29 PM EST
I wonder how gat knows the criteria of the class and how they are locking in prices now?
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 1:16:45 PM EST
It is looking like the standard price for 16 hours. I have seen a few advertize that they were 175 or 200 for 8 hours. I have been charging 100 for the NRA first steps class which is good for the FL permit. I have not decided on what I am charging. It all depends on if I am going to half to rent a range and classroom or not.
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 4:59:30 PM EST
GAT needs to pay for their new range and other things they are building on to. so they will be over priced for sure because they think they are top of the line, when they are a joke. They dont even have ammo.
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 6:13:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2013 6:15:07 PM EST by TDIllini]
Great CCW bill, huh?

I was going to start complaining and ranting about how this bill is unconstitutional, but screw it.

How do I become an instructor so that I can offer a course at cost/for free?

Also, I heard that hunters safety satisfies 8 hrs of the requirement. Go take that, I'm willing to bet it's cheaper AND you gain the ability to hunt.
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 6:39:15 PM EST
I'm hoping to do an 8 hour course at my farm for maybe $75 - but once a month and limit of 4 at a time
Link Posted: 7/19/2013 6:40:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2013 5:33:00 AM EST by Roadhawk]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TDIllini:
Great CCW bill, huh?

I was going to start complaining and ranting about how this bill is unconstitutional, but screw it.

How do I become an instructor so that I can offer a course at cost/for free?

Also, I heard that hunters safety satisfies 8 hrs of the requirement. Go take that, I'm willing to bet it's cheaper AND you gain the ability to hunt.
View Quote


1. <snip nasty comment> Keep the discussion respectful - Roadhawk

2. read the farking bill it's all there
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:01:10 AM EST
I talked to instructor at www.crosslinedefense.com and they charge $125 for 8hrs of NRA basic.
With certain facilities and class size it can be lower cost.

IL concealed carry will be broken down to a 16hr class or the final 8hr class if that is all is needed.
Of course they also are waiting on what the course content will be.
They teach in Champaign, Danville & Shelbyville areas right now.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:05:45 AM EST
Well unless I missed something, the ISP hasn't put out the criteria for the class or even who will be qualified as an instructor. How could they price something that they may not even be able to provide?
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:27:58 AM EST
from what ive read the hunters safety will count for 8 hours DD214 8 hours. its possible other states CCWs will be worth 8 hours.

you can only use 8 hours .but only paying for 8 is better.





Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:29:36 AM EST
So, we are up to $450 already to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right?? Thanks Phelps, ISRA and Illinoiscarry.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 6:23:02 AM EST
Well, everyone was so happy to get a bill. The funny thing is will the 200-400 class include the permit cost or will that be an additional cost. I plan on taking the NRA instructor course and becoming an instructor. Then I will try to do the class as cheap as possible If I am allowed by the police, because it should be available to everyone and not just people who have money.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 7:49:39 AM EST
So far the $150 is separate.
So that's around $450 for the whole thing.
This is what I've found so far.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 9:23:08 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By john1911:
So, we are up to $450 already to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right?? Thanks Phelps, ISRA and Illinoiscarry.
View Quote


Its not perfect, but together they got a lot further than you did, which is whining on the internet like an insolent teenager that didnt get their way.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 9:44:14 AM EST
I'm still wondering how all these people are offering Illinois CCW classes when the requirements have yet to be formulated and published by ISP. I'd be very hesitant to plonk down any $$ until they are.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 11:16:45 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Paints-n-cows:
Well unless I missed something, the ISP hasn't put out the criteria for the class or even who will be qualified as an instructor. How could they price something that they may not even be able to provide?
View Quote



Very good point.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 11:21:20 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By john1911:
So, we are up to $450 already to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right?? Thanks Phelps, ISRA and Illinoiscarry.
View Quote


What kind of bill do you think we would have without the efforts of the people you mentioned and many more?
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 12:46:24 PM EST
$350-$450? And thats acceptable? Fuck that noise.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 12:49:49 PM EST
Some of you fucking people amaze me. "Goody!!! Goody!!!! I get to pay $450+ to carry my pistol back and forth to my car!!!!!!! I'm a badass!!!!!!!"

The truth of the issue is, this law is the most restrictive and expensive "shall-issue" CCW anywhere. And know we've got every numbnuts that possibly can offering "training" for a couple $100. These same numbnuts have no idea what the required curriculum will look yet are already signing up every sucker they can.

Phelps fucked us. The ISRA was "neutral" 'til the shitty bill passed and now are gradually sliding in to take "credit" for this abortion. The NRA pretty much the same. Illinoiscarry was just happy to get anything passed.

At the end of the day a shitty bill became a shitty law. Contrary to what some here may (foolishly) believe, it's a shitty law that will not be improved through further legislation.If anything, it will become more restrictive. It's a shitty law that puts it in the hands of ISP, the same ISP that is taking 5+ months to process FOID cards. It's a shitty law with no penalties for ISP dragging their feet. It's a fucking shitty law.

I guess the only positive it will give Phelps something to campaign on, ISRA/NRA something to fund raise on and the rest of you something to crow about "how much you've done".
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 3:30:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shoot-this:
So far the $150 is separate.
So that's around $450 for the whole thing.
This is what I've found so far.
View Quote


I can say that I'm aiming considerably lower than those figures for my classes, depending on what I can work out with local ranges for qualification shoots.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 3:57:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By john1911:
Some of you fucking people amaze me. "Goody!!! Goody!!!! I get to pay $450+ to carry my pistol back and forth to my car!!!!!!! I'm a badass!!!!!!!"

The truth of the issue is, this law is the most restrictive and expensive "shall-issue" CCW anywhere. And know we've got every numbnuts that possibly can offering "training" for a couple $100. These same numbnuts have no idea what the required curriculum will look yet are already signing up every sucker they can.

Phelps fucked us. The ISRA was "neutral" 'til the shitty bill passed and now are gradually sliding in to take "credit" for this abortion. The NRA pretty much the same. Illinoiscarry was just happy to get anything passed.

At the end of the day a shitty bill became a shitty law. Contrary to what some here may (foolishly) believe, it's a shitty law that will not be improved through further legislation.If anything, it will become more restrictive. It's a shitty law that puts it in the hands of ISP, the same ISP that is taking 5+ months to process FOID cards. It's a shitty law with no penalties for ISP dragging their feet. It's a fucking shitty law.

I guess the only positive it will give Phelps something to campaign on, ISRA/NRA something to fund raise on and the rest of you something to crow about "how much you've done".
View Quote



calm your tits and eat a snickers, being a negative nancy does not help anything, if you want to sit and whine, go ahead and spin your wheels, some of us have other plans to improve things and help make it get better just as all the other states did.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:18:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2013 5:22:01 PM EST by john1911]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FiReBReTHa:



calm your tits and eat a snickers, being a negative nancy does not help anything, if you want to sit and whine, go ahead and spin your wheels, some of us have other plans to improve things and help make it get better just as all the other states did.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FiReBReTHa:
Originally Posted By john1911:
Some of you fucking people amaze me. "Goody!!! Goody!!!! I get to pay $450+ to carry my pistol back and forth to my car!!!!!!! I'm a badass!!!!!!!"

The truth of the issue is, this law is the most restrictive and expensive "shall-issue" CCW anywhere. And know we've got every numbnuts that possibly can offering "training" for a couple $100. These same numbnuts have no idea what the required curriculum will look yet are already signing up every sucker they can.

Phelps fucked us. The ISRA was "neutral" 'til the shitty bill passed and now are gradually sliding in to take "credit" for this abortion. The NRA pretty much the same. Illinoiscarry was just happy to get anything passed.

At the end of the day a shitty bill became a shitty law. Contrary to what some here may (foolishly) believe, it's a shitty law that will not be improved through further legislation.If anything, it will become more restrictive. It's a shitty law that puts it in the hands of ISP, the same ISP that is taking 5+ months to process FOID cards. It's a shitty law with no penalties for ISP dragging their feet. It's a fucking shitty law.

I guess the only positive it will give Phelps something to campaign on, ISRA/NRA something to fund raise on and the rest of you something to crow about "how much you've done".



calm your tits and eat a snickers, being a negative nancy does not help anything, if you want to sit and whine, go ahead and spin your wheels, some of us have other plans to improve things and help make it get better just as all the other states did.


OK. Have fun with that. While I'm waiting won't you please regale me with tales of gun owners' many wins in the past 30 years in Illannoy.

How about we ask the guys in towns that have enacted an AWB in the past 10 days how great this bill is????????
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 7:04:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By john1911:


OK. Have fun with that. While I'm waiting won't you please regale me with tales of gun owners' many wins in the past 30 years in Illannoy.

How about we ask the guys in towns that have enacted an AWB in the past 10 days how great this bill is????????
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By john1911:
Originally Posted By FiReBReTHa:
Originally Posted By john1911:
Some of you fucking people amaze me. "Goody!!! Goody!!!! I get to pay $450+ to carry my pistol back and forth to my car!!!!!!! I'm a badass!!!!!!!"

The truth of the issue is, this law is the most restrictive and expensive "shall-issue" CCW anywhere. And know we've got every numbnuts that possibly can offering "training" for a couple $100. These same numbnuts have no idea what the required curriculum will look yet are already signing up every sucker they can.

Phelps fucked us. The ISRA was "neutral" 'til the shitty bill passed and now are gradually sliding in to take "credit" for this abortion. The NRA pretty much the same. Illinoiscarry was just happy to get anything passed.

At the end of the day a shitty bill became a shitty law. Contrary to what some here may (foolishly) believe, it's a shitty law that will not be improved through further legislation.If anything, it will become more restrictive. It's a shitty law that puts it in the hands of ISP, the same ISP that is taking 5+ months to process FOID cards. It's a shitty law with no penalties for ISP dragging their feet. It's a fucking shitty law.

I guess the only positive it will give Phelps something to campaign on, ISRA/NRA something to fund raise on and the rest of you something to crow about "how much you've done".



calm your tits and eat a snickers, being a negative nancy does not help anything, if you want to sit and whine, go ahead and spin your wheels, some of us have other plans to improve things and help make it get better just as all the other states did.


OK. Have fun with that. While I'm waiting won't you please regale me with tales of gun owners' many wins in the past 30 years in Illannoy.

How about we ask the guys in towns that have enacted an AWB in the past 10 days how great this bill is????????


Chicago and Oak Park repealed their handguns bans
CCW WAS Passed. Granted its not up to your standard but it still passed.

Why do you live here if it sucks so much?





Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:04:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By john1911:
So, we are up to $450 already to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right?? Thanks Phelps, ISRA and Illinoiscarry.
View Quote


If you had a chance to take Phelp's place once the 7th handed down their decision, please tell us what you would've done differently and how your actions would've let to a phenomenal carry bill.

Link Posted: 7/21/2013 2:29:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Paints-n-cows:
Well unless I missed something, the ISP hasn't put out the criteria for the class or even who will be qualified as an instructor. How could they price something that they may not even be able to provide?
View Quote


it's pretty much all spelled out in the bill

the biggest issues is will the ISP recognize NRA Basic Pistol Course and NRA Basic Pistol Instructors - my guess after speaking with some folks involved with the process is yes they will.

They seem to want to avoid a second FOID disaster.

Not to say our good friend Hiram Grau won't throw a wrench into the whole mess at the last minute


Link Posted: 7/21/2013 2:30:34 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By john1911:
So, we are up to $450 already to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right?? Thanks Phelps, ISRA and Illinoiscarry.
View Quote


care for some cheese?


Link Posted: 7/21/2013 2:34:01 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By john1911:
Some of you fucking people amaze me. "Goody!!! Goody!!!! I get to pay $450+ to carry my pistol back and forth to my car!!!!!!! I'm a badass!!!!!!!"

The truth of the issue is, this law is the most restrictive and expensive "shall-issue" CCW anywhere. And know we've got every numbnuts that possibly can offering "training" for a couple $100. These same numbnuts have no idea what the required curriculum will look yet are already signing up every sucker they can.

Phelps fucked us. The ISRA was "neutral" 'til the shitty bill passed and now are gradually sliding in to take "credit" for this abortion. The NRA pretty much the same. Illinoiscarry was just happy to get anything passed.

At the end of the day a shitty bill became a shitty law. Contrary to what some here may (foolishly) believe, it's a shitty law that will not be improved through further legislation.If anything, it will become more restrictive. It's a shitty law that puts it in the hands of ISP, the same ISP that is taking 5+ months to process FOID cards. It's a shitty law with no penalties for ISP dragging their feet. It's a fucking shitty law.

I guess the only positive it will give Phelps something to campaign on, ISRA/NRA something to fund raise on and the rest of you something to crow about "how much you've done".
View Quote
answer the question please, other then complaining on the internet what have you accomplished reguarding our 2a rights?
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 5:18:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By john1911:
Some of you fucking people amaze me. "Goody!!! Goody!!!! I get to pay $450+ to carry my pistol back and forth to my car!!!!!!! I'm a badass!!!!!!!"

The truth of the issue is, this law is the most restrictive and expensive "shall-issue" CCW anywhere. And know we've got every numbnuts that possibly can offering "training" for a couple $100. These same numbnuts have no idea what the required curriculum will look yet are already signing up every sucker they can.

Phelps fucked us. The ISRA was "neutral" 'til the shitty bill passed and now are gradually sliding in to take "credit" for this abortion. The NRA pretty much the same. Illinoiscarry was just happy to get anything passed.

At the end of the day a shitty bill became a shitty law. Contrary to what some here may (foolishly) believe, it's a shitty law that will not be improved through further legislation.If anything, it will become more restrictive. It's a shitty law that puts it in the hands of ISP, the same ISP that is taking 5+ months to process FOID cards. It's a shitty law with no penalties for ISP dragging their feet. It's a fucking shitty law.

I guess the only positive it will give Phelps something to campaign on, ISRA/NRA something to fund raise on and the rest of you something to crow about "how much you've done".
View Quote


Lets say for a minute that 100% of what you wrote is true. Knowing the whole thing sucks won't change a thing. Some of us are pragmatists. This is what we have to deal with now and we're trying to figure out how to do so with the least amount of time and money spent.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 6:47:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2013 6:53:09 AM EST by ilbob]
Its a poor bill. No one even knows with any certainty what significant parts of it mean. The guys who are supposed to be on "our side" are reduced to "legislative intent" for some of the vaguely worded portions.

It is what it is. We got statewide handgun preemption out of it, and while it is another thing poorly worded, the courts may well decide eventually that it means what we hope and think it means.

I am in agreement with those who think it is not likely to be improved all that much legislatively any time soon. we might be able to tweak it around the edges a little, but substantive changes are unlikely. At present that is just a pipe dream short of some electoral miracle.

I think there is considerable opportunity to deal with the situation in the courts.

I also agree that it is likely that NRA/ISRA/IllinoisCarry (basically the same people anyway since the NRA takeover of IC) will take whatever credit they can for it as a fund raising vehicle. What else can they do? Admit they got clocked and then ask for more money? Regardless of how well or poorly they performed (and I am not personally sure which it is), they are the public face of gun owners in IL, and it is not likely they will change much either.

The reality is that despite the beating they took on this, we got something out of it. Not what any of us wanted, but it is not zero. We do not even know what we got yet and may not have the complete picture for a number of years as people get arrested and have to litigate stuff to find out what it really means.

Or we get favorable decisions from courts invalidating chunks of it. Who knows where the courts will get us five or ten years down the road?
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 8:02:25 AM EST
I see a lot of posts by people that appear to speak with authority. I see them attack the groups that helped pass concealed carry in the last state in the nation. They tout how the courts are going to come in and tweak the bill to their liking...These people don't have a clue!

Someone show me in the court ruling where the judges stated that the fees had to be less than $150 (which I agree is too much). Someone show me where their ruling would have precluded "may issue". Show me where the courts would have gotten bent out of shape because the CC people had to take a 16 hour class...(our original bill called for 8). What they ruled and the narrowness of it is basically that IL cannot have a total ban on carrying for self defense. There are currently court cases going on in other states trying to overthrow "may issue" but to date, they have failed.

There is a reason we are the last state in the union to get a carry law that several other states would LOVE to have and congratulated us on accomplishing. They didn't just forget to pass a carry law here...We are the last state (because of Cook County), we are the most anti-carry state in the Union!

With its warts (and it has plenty)...
Already, court cases with UUW are being thrown out!
Already, the Chicago handgun registration is thrown out!
Non-resident folks with CC permits can carry a loaded handgun in their cars anywhere in IL except for nuclear facilities!
Residents can transport with a freakin FOID any legal to transport gun with only state regulations to worry about.
After a terrible battle up North with very few failures, we have an end to NEW gun regulations or bans in home rule communities.
Even with all the restricted areas (man! there are a lot) You can still legally transport (unloaded and enclosed in a case in those areas).
We have a SHALL ISSUE law!!! For any of the people who don't get it...THIS IS HUGE!!! Of this....I AM PROUD!
We have total preemption on carry guns. THIS IS HUGE!!! Of this....I AM PROUD! No local community can ban or further restrict the guns or accessories we carry. So, you can legally carry a normal capacity Glock & a backup pistol & extra mags. & hang lasers all over them! It is legal by IL State Law!

Someone else can take the time to enumerate just what we have now and see if anything is better because of this law...My favorite (pre-law) situation was if you got caught with a loaded carry gun, you were subject to a FELONY charge....

One other little possible fringe benefit is that if we ever get another run at a national reciprocity law, they won't be hindered by IL not having a law and we will be counted just like the rest of the states!!!


Mike Rowe
IllinoisCarry.com
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 9:46:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2013 9:49:51 AM EST by ilbob]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
With its warts (and it has plenty)...
Already, court cases with UUW are being thrown out!
Had zero to do with the LTC law. A gift from the courts.
Already, the Chicago handgun registration is thrown out!
Something I have repeatedly lauded.
Non-resident folks with CC permits can carry a loaded handgun in their cars anywhere in IL except for nuclear facilities!
Maybe. Read what it actually says, as opposed to what you think it says. Read VERY carefully.
Residents can transport with a freakin FOID any legal to transport gun with only state regulations to worry about.
Also laudable.
After a terrible battle up North with very few failures, we have an end to NEW gun regulations or bans in home rule communities.
What we have is an end to handgun regulation and AWB if they call them that. If they just ban rifles with barrels of less than 24 inches, who knows?
Even with all the restricted areas (man! there are a lot) You can still legally transport (unloaded and enclosed in a case in those areas).
Some of this stuff is iffy, because the wording is either very carefully chosen or very carelessly chosen.
We have a SHALL ISSUE law!!! For any of the people who don't get it...THIS IS HUGE!!! Of this....I AM PROUD!
While I think the LTC law with all its warts is better than the situation previously, I am not real sure just what you personally are proud of. This was all a gift from Mike Madigan and the courts. I would not normally look a gift horse in the mouth, but one from the likes of MM is always suspect.
We have total preemption on carry guns. THIS IS HUGE!!! Of this....I AM PROUD! No local community can ban or further restrict the guns or accessories we carry. So, you can legally carry a normal capacity Glock & a backup pistol & extra mags. & hang lasers all over them! It is legal by IL State Law!
I do not wish to be the test case for whether the preemption includes magazines or other accessories other than while actually carrying.

Someone else can take the time to enumerate just what we have now and see if anything is better because of this law...My favorite (pre-law) situation was if you got caught with a loaded carry gun, you were subject to a FELONY charge....
If you get caught today you will still be subject to felony charges in all but a few counties.
One other little possible fringe benefit is that if we ever get another run at a national reciprocity law, they won't be hindered by IL not having a law and we will be counted just like the rest of the states!!!

I suspect a national LTC reciprocity bill is a long way from being a reality. But one never knows. As a red meat issue it is a good one. As public policy and in the world of practical politics, who knows?
Mike Rowe
IllinoisCarry.com
View Quote


Maybe it is a good thing that no licenses will likely be issued for 6 months or more. It gives people with more distance from the situation a chance to look at what we have in a clearer light.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 10:21:29 AM EST
While I think the LTC law with all its warts is better than the situation previously, I am not real sure just what you personally are proud of. This was all a gift from Mike Madigan and the courts. I would not normally look a gift horse in the mouth, but one from the likes of MM is always suspect.
View Quote


We have been suspect of Madigan from the very start...However, no matter how you feel about him...He delivered everything he promised (except the wipe out of home rule assault weapons bans which Cullerton undid).

There have been no "gift horses". The fact that we got to this point was the result of a lot of people working for a very long time to get us to a place where this conversation was forced upon freakin IL. IllinoisCarry, ISRA, and NRA were all part of that process and I am DANG Proud! As for IllinoisCarry, we are just volunteers with leaders that have come together and worked for a common cause. We managed to do it even with the burden of the negative complainers that took more from the table than they brought.

You can decide for yourself if the "risk" isn't good enough for you to exercise your rights....I'm basing my opinions on NRA Lawyers that combed this law with a fine toothed comb...The likes of the lawyers that brought the Heller and McDonald decisions...The lawyers at the ISRA...The lawyers within the capitol itself.
I believe you thumbed your nose at "legislative intent"...
That was injected by our lawyers to clarify the law being passed when there wasn't time to re-draft the law and run it through both houses for another vote.

So, for all the wannabe lawyers and 2nd amendment scholars that want to second-guess those of us that were on the front line...go ahead...

I for one am growing tired of the same old "this is a crap law" rhetoric!...Either show us your law degree...or show us your legal team or quite disseminating misinformation with authority.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 10:51:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2013 11:14:13 AM EST by ilbob]
It is a crap law. But, it is also undoubtedly a step up from what we had a month ago.

As for legislative intent being enforceable over what the law actually says, only time and the IL court system will tell us that.

And just because a lawyer, legislator, or lobbyist said something about the bill makes it no more true than if you or I said it. The only opinion that ultimately matters comes from the IL SC as far as what IL law means.

I would like to believe that in the end we will not get any real surprises out of it. But, Madigan cannot be trusted. Nor can Chicago. Period.

If there is any wiggle room for them, they will take it and there will be people in jail over it, at least until it is sorted out in court.



Link Posted: 7/21/2013 11:18:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2013 11:22:48 AM EST by SwanHunter]
If you are so sure about all this stuff, I encourage you to go to an unfriendly jurisdiction and get yourself arrested and see just what it really means in court. Otherwise you are just a big talker, like all the other big talkers who say the thing means something, but will not be willing to be the test case either.
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I don't see anyone wanting to purposely stick their necks out just to prove a point...there are more dangers than just misinterpreting the laws...It is stupid and I might add it is stupid to even suggest. However, after being licensed, I would exercise my right anywhere within the state I had to go. However, right now...I wouldn't chose to go into South Chicago with or without a gun!

I guess my point is if I had to choose between your opinion or a team of NRA and SAF lawyers, I wouldn't listen to you...I am not touting my credentials...I am disseminating information gleaned from them...Where are your sourcing your opinions? A keyboard does not an authority make.

The law is what it is.

I won't continue to defend or argue with those that love to discredit and argue.

If anyone else has any serious questions about the law, I'll try to answer.

Link Posted: 7/21/2013 12:01:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
If anyone else has any serious questions about the law, I'll try to answer.
View Quote

so you are an expert now?

I noticed these expert SAF and NRA lawyers have chosen not to disseminate any of their opinions about this law in writing but feel no compunction whatsoever about letting you do so.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 12:26:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By winddummy82:
answer the question please, other then complaining on the internet what have you accomplished reguarding our 2a rights?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By winddummy82:
Originally Posted By john1911:
Some of you fucking people amaze me. "Goody!!! Goody!!!! I get to pay $450+ to carry my pistol back and forth to my car!!!!!!! I'm a badass!!!!!!!"

The truth of the issue is, this law is the most restrictive and expensive "shall-issue" CCW anywhere. And know we've got every numbnuts that possibly can offering "training" for a couple $100. These same numbnuts have no idea what the required curriculum will look yet are already signing up every sucker they can.

Phelps fucked us. The ISRA was "neutral" 'til the shitty bill passed and now are gradually sliding in to take "credit" for this abortion. The NRA pretty much the same. Illinoiscarry was just happy to get anything passed.

At the end of the day a shitty bill became a shitty law. Contrary to what some here may (foolishly) believe, it's a shitty law that will not be improved through further legislation.If anything, it will become more restrictive. It's a shitty law that puts it in the hands of ISP, the same ISP that is taking 5+ months to process FOID cards. It's a shitty law with no penalties for ISP dragging their feet. It's a fucking shitty law.

I guess the only positive it will give Phelps something to campaign on, ISRA/NRA something to fund raise on and the rest of you something to crow about "how much you've done".
answer the question please, other then complaining on the internet what have you accomplished reguarding our 2a rights?


You know, it takes some fucking huge balls to ask me what I've done when you willingly give money (through your union) to those that want nothing more than complete civilian disarmament. As a union stooge, your opinion is irrelevant.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 12:45:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By john1911:


You know, it takes some fucking huge balls to ask me what I've done when you willingly give money (through your union) to those that want nothing more than complete civilian disarmament. As a union stooge, your opinion is irrelevant.
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Originally Posted By john1911:
Originally Posted By winddummy82:
Originally Posted By john1911:
Some of you fucking people amaze me. "Goody!!! Goody!!!! I get to pay $450+ to carry my pistol back and forth to my car!!!!!!! I'm a badass!!!!!!!"

The truth of the issue is, this law is the most restrictive and expensive "shall-issue" CCW anywhere. And know we've got every numbnuts that possibly can offering "training" for a couple $100. These same numbnuts have no idea what the required curriculum will look yet are already signing up every sucker they can.

Phelps fucked us. The ISRA was "neutral" 'til the shitty bill passed and now are gradually sliding in to take "credit" for this abortion. The NRA pretty much the same. Illinoiscarry was just happy to get anything passed.

At the end of the day a shitty bill became a shitty law. Contrary to what some here may (foolishly) believe, it's a shitty law that will not be improved through further legislation.If anything, it will become more restrictive. It's a shitty law that puts it in the hands of ISP, the same ISP that is taking 5+ months to process FOID cards. It's a shitty law with no penalties for ISP dragging their feet. It's a fucking shitty law.

I guess the only positive it will give Phelps something to campaign on, ISRA/NRA something to fund raise on and the rest of you something to crow about "how much you've done".
answer the question please, other then complaining on the internet what have you accomplished reguarding our 2a rights?


You know, it takes some fucking huge balls to ask me what I've done when you willingly give money (through your union) to those that want nothing more than complete civilian disarmament. As a union stooge, your opinion is irrelevant.

i enforced my beck rights one week after i joined the carpenters union. your still not saying what you accomplished reguarding our 2a rights. don't worry i'll wait.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 2:28:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:


Its not perfect, but together they got a lot further than you did, which is whining on the internet like an insolent teenager that didnt get their way.
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Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By john1911:
So, we are up to $450 already to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right?? Thanks Phelps, ISRA and Illinoiscarry.


Its not perfect, but together they got a lot further than you did, which is whining on the internet like an insolent teenager that didnt get their way.


Wow, whining....If I remember correctly the reason that HB 997 didn't go forward was because of a lot of whining from the northeastern part of the state about their politics and why they couldn't have something that the rest of the state did.

.

Link Posted: 7/21/2013 2:30:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 5:21:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Roadhawk:



Yes, I would call Swanhunter an expert. He has been on the tip of the spear through this entire fight. He has spent endless days at the capital working right along with the NRA, ISRA and our lawmakers. Swanhunter and his wife have done more for our RKBA than the entire collective ILHTF on ARFCOM.

If it wasn't for people like Swanhunter and his wife, we wouldn't have any type of carry and it wouldn't even have been discussed.

We get it...you don't like the law. Instead of disparaging those who worked so hard on our behalf, why don't you get to work to change what you don't like?
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Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
If anyone else has any serious questions about the law, I'll try to answer.

so you are an expert now?

I noticed these expert SAF and NRA lawyers have chosen not to disseminate any of their opinions about this law in writing but feel no compunction whatsoever about letting you do so.



Yes, I would call Swanhunter an expert. He has been on the tip of the spear through this entire fight. He has spent endless days at the capital working right along with the NRA, ISRA and our lawmakers. Swanhunter and his wife have done more for our RKBA than the entire collective ILHTF on ARFCOM.

If it wasn't for people like Swanhunter and his wife, we wouldn't have any type of carry and it wouldn't even have been discussed.

We get it...you don't like the law. Instead of disparaging those who worked so hard on our behalf, why don't you get to work to change what you don't like?


Not "disparaging" anyone.

Pointing out facts. I notice that none of the guys with 6 figure incomes to protect are out there saying anything at all. In fact, the silence from anyone above the level of peon is very noticeable. I would be willing to bet there has been some serious "guidance" given to such people on just what to say and what not to say.

The plain fact is that we would have had roughly the same LTC if they had done virtually nothing. This was forced on IL by the courts and trying to make it "our" great victory is like claiming the French won the second world war.

Fighting the good fight is all well and good, and they should get some kudos for that. But, let us not forget how this actually came about and not delude ourselves about what really happened.

This is not over by any stretch of the imagination and the court battles will go on for years or decades to flesh out just what we got and did not get.

Link Posted: 7/21/2013 5:40:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2013 5:46:30 PM EST by SwanHunter]
Speak wisdom to a fool and he will call you foolish...

For the record...It was myself and my wife that invited Mary Shepard and Otis McDonald to the court room....And, IllinoisCarry was a plaintiff in the Moore vs madigan case that was combined into Shepard....Some of the language in this law (not much unfortunately) was pulled from our previous bills...

Do you expect a bunch of lawyers to comb through the pages of gun forums looking for goofy keyboard naysayers so they can put their minds at ease....Again, our contact list has the best second amendment lawyers in the country on it...Last night, I was with Reps. Phelps and Bost...They will be helping me on the training aspect this week. And...Phelps has been absolutely true to this cause for the 9 years we have worked with him on it!

But, by all means, those of you that just want to attack, complain and stir controversy...I know you get some thrill out of causing upheaval....You do your thing and I'll do mine.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 7:29:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By john1911:


You know, it takes some fucking huge balls to ask me what I've done when you willingly give money (through your union) to those that want nothing more than complete civilian disarmament. As a union stooge, your opinion is irrelevant.
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Originally Posted By john1911:
Originally Posted By winddummy82:
Originally Posted By john1911:
Some of you fucking people amaze me. "Goody!!! Goody!!!! I get to pay $450+ to carry my pistol back and forth to my car!!!!!!! I'm a badass!!!!!!!"

The truth of the issue is, this law is the most restrictive and expensive "shall-issue" CCW anywhere. And know we've got every numbnuts that possibly can offering "training" for a couple $100. These same numbnuts have no idea what the required curriculum will look yet are already signing up every sucker they can.

Phelps fucked us. The ISRA was "neutral" 'til the shitty bill passed and now are gradually sliding in to take "credit" for this abortion. The NRA pretty much the same. Illinoiscarry was just happy to get anything passed.

At the end of the day a shitty bill became a shitty law. Contrary to what some here may (foolishly) believe, it's a shitty law that will not be improved through further legislation.If anything, it will become more restrictive. It's a shitty law that puts it in the hands of ISP, the same ISP that is taking 5+ months to process FOID cards. It's a shitty law with no penalties for ISP dragging their feet. It's a fucking shitty law.

I guess the only positive it will give Phelps something to campaign on, ISRA/NRA something to fund raise on and the rest of you something to crow about "how much you've done".
answer the question please, other then complaining on the internet what have you accomplished reguarding our 2a rights?


You know, it takes some fucking huge balls to ask me what I've done when you willingly give money (through your union) to those that want nothing more than complete civilian disarmament. As a union stooge, your opinion is irrelevant.


I'm not in a union, and I have the same question. What the fuck have you done?
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 9:54:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ilbob:


Not "disparaging" anyone.

Pointing out facts. I notice that none of the guys with 6 figure incomes to protect are out there saying anything at all. In fact, the silence from anyone above the level of peon is very noticeable. I would be willing to bet there has been some serious "guidance" given to such people on just what to say and what not to say.

The plain fact is that we would have had roughly the same LTC if they had done virtually nothing. This was forced on IL by the courts and trying to make it "our" great victory is like claiming the French won the second world war.

Fighting the good fight is all well and good, and they should get some kudos for that. But, let us not forget how this actually came about and not delude ourselves about what really happened.

This is not over by any stretch of the imagination and the court battles will go on for years or decades to flesh out just what we got and did not get.

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Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
If anyone else has any serious questions about the law, I'll try to answer.

so you are an expert now?

I noticed these expert SAF and NRA lawyers have chosen not to disseminate any of their opinions about this law in writing but feel no compunction whatsoever about letting you do so.



Yes, I would call Swanhunter an expert. He has been on the tip of the spear through this entire fight. He has spent endless days at the capital working right along with the NRA, ISRA and our lawmakers. Swanhunter and his wife have done more for our RKBA than the entire collective ILHTF on ARFCOM.

If it wasn't for people like Swanhunter and his wife, we wouldn't have any type of carry and it wouldn't even have been discussed.

We get it...you don't like the law. Instead of disparaging those who worked so hard on our behalf, why don't you get to work to change what you don't like?


Not "disparaging" anyone.

Pointing out facts. I notice that none of the guys with 6 figure incomes to protect are out there saying anything at all. In fact, the silence from anyone above the level of peon is very noticeable. I would be willing to bet there has been some serious "guidance" given to such people on just what to say and what not to say.

The plain fact is that we would have had roughly the same LTC if they had done virtually nothing. This was forced on IL by the courts and trying to make it "our" great victory is like claiming the French won the second world war.

Fighting the good fight is all well and good, and they should get some kudos for that. But, let us not forget how this actually came about and not delude ourselves about what really happened.

This is not over by any stretch of the imagination and the court battles will go on for years or decades to flesh out just what we got and did not get.


No, this is not a plain fact. It's merely your opinion, and that's it. The legislators of this state waited until the last goddamn minute to do anything, and if we didn't have good folks representing our cause, a "may issue" bill might have been passed instead of a shall issue bill. Then we'd be stuck in a deeper shithole than we are now. It's your right to disagree, but don't spread hearsay while you're at it.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 9:59:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By nolan7120:


If you had a chance to take Phelp's place once the 7th handed down their decision, please tell us what you would've done differently and how your actions would've let to a phenomenal carry bill.

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Originally Posted By nolan7120:
Originally Posted By john1911:
So, we are up to $450 already to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right?? Thanks Phelps, ISRA and Illinoiscarry.


If you had a chance to take Phelp's place once the 7th handed down their decision, please tell us what you would've done differently and how your actions would've let to a phenomenal carry bill.


John1911 - Please answer the above question which went unnoticed or ignored. I'm anxious to hear how your progress would've been drastically different for the better.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:39:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ilbob:


Not "disparaging" anyone.

Pointing out facts. I notice that none of the guys with 6 figure incomes to protect are out there saying anything at all. In fact, the silence from anyone above the level of peon is very noticeable. I would be willing to bet there has been some serious "guidance" given to such people on just what to say and what not to say.

The plain fact is that we would have had roughly the same LTC if they had done virtually nothing. This was forced on IL by the courts and trying to make it "our" great victory is like claiming the French won the second world war.

Fighting the good fight is all well and good, and they should get some kudos for that. But, let us not forget how this actually came about and not delude ourselves about what really happened.

This is not over by any stretch of the imagination and the court battles will go on for years or decades to flesh out just what we got and did not get.

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Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
If anyone else has any serious questions about the law, I'll try to answer.

so you are an expert now?

I noticed these expert SAF and NRA lawyers have chosen not to disseminate any of their opinions about this law in writing but feel no compunction whatsoever about letting you do so.



Yes, I would call Swanhunter an expert. He has been on the tip of the spear through this entire fight. He has spent endless days at the capital working right along with the NRA, ISRA and our lawmakers. Swanhunter and his wife have done more for our RKBA than the entire collective ILHTF on ARFCOM.

If it wasn't for people like Swanhunter and his wife, we wouldn't have any type of carry and it wouldn't even have been discussed.

We get it...you don't like the law. Instead of disparaging those who worked so hard on our behalf, why don't you get to work to change what you don't like?


Not "disparaging" anyone.

Pointing out facts. I notice that none of the guys with 6 figure incomes to protect are out there saying anything at all. In fact, the silence from anyone above the level of peon is very noticeable. I would be willing to bet there has been some serious "guidance" given to such people on just what to say and what not to say.

The plain fact is that we would have had roughly the same LTC if they had done virtually nothing. This was forced on IL by the courts and trying to make it "our" great victory is like claiming the French won the second world war.

Fighting the good fight is all well and good, and they should get some kudos for that. But, let us not forget how this actually came about and not delude ourselves about what really happened.

This is not over by any stretch of the imagination and the court battles will go on for years or decades to flesh out just what we got and did not get.


ignorance is bliss. sitting on the sidelines criticising the people in the ring is the biggest spectator sport in world.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 3:23:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 6:54:20 AM EST
Class Prices? Did I mention www.crosslinedefense.com is $125 for 8hr NRA Basic. They said they could probably offer full 16hr class for $200.
Also if you come and take it in Shelby Co, it is a Concealed Carry until permits are being issued County - so says the States Attorney.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 8:13:48 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Roadhawk:


How do you think this all got to the courts in the first place?
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Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Originally Posted By ilbob:
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
If anyone else has any serious questions about the law, I'll try to answer.

so you are an expert now?

I noticed these expert SAF and NRA lawyers have chosen not to disseminate any of their opinions about this law in writing but feel no compunction whatsoever about letting you do so.



Yes, I would call Swanhunter an expert. He has been on the tip of the spear through this entire fight. He has spent endless days at the capital working right along with the NRA, ISRA and our lawmakers. Swanhunter and his wife have done more for our RKBA than the entire collective ILHTF on ARFCOM.

If it wasn't for people like Swanhunter and his wife, we wouldn't have any type of carry and it wouldn't even have been discussed.

We get it...you don't like the law. Instead of disparaging those who worked so hard on our behalf, why don't you get to work to change what you don't like?


Not "disparaging" anyone.

Pointing out facts. I notice that none of the guys with 6 figure incomes to protect are out there saying anything at all. In fact, the silence from anyone above the level of peon is very noticeable. I would be willing to bet there has been some serious "guidance" given to such people on just what to say and what not to say.

The plain fact is that we would have had roughly the same LTC if they had done virtually nothing. This was forced on IL by the courts and trying to make it "our" great victory is like claiming the French won the second world war.

Fighting the good fight is all well and good, and they should get some kudos for that. But, let us not forget how this actually came about and not delude ourselves about what really happened.

This is not over by any stretch of the imagination and the court battles will go on for years or decades to flesh out just what we got and did not get.



How do you think this all got to the courts in the first place?


This.

Sounds like some people need to formularize themselves with the Shepard vs. Madiagan case.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:30:07 PM EST
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Originally Posted By nolan7120:

John1911 - Please answer the above question which went unnoticed or ignored. I'm anxious to hear how your progress would've been drastically different for the better.
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Originally Posted By nolan7120:
Originally Posted By nolan7120:
Originally Posted By john1911:
So, we are up to $450 already to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right?? Thanks Phelps, ISRA and Illinoiscarry.


If you had a chance to take Phelp's place once the 7th handed down their decision, please tell us what you would've done differently and how your actions would've let to a phenomenal carry bill.


John1911 - Please answer the above question which went unnoticed or ignored. I'm anxious to hear how your progress would've been drastically different for the better.
john 1911 has pulled a typical liberal move, if you don't have a good answer or can't answer at all be insulted and use that as a excuse not to answer! i doubt he will post again in this thread.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:36:32 PM EST
swanhunter and todd v thanks for fighting the good fight! this is illinois for crying out loud, nothing is easy people! if you thought we were going to get a arizona type ccw your delusional at best. the madigans need money to keep the machine going. this $300 is all about feeding the hungry machine. plenty of states would like to start where we are starting with ccw. its not a perfect bill but its one we can go forward with and improve on.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 2:08:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By winddummy82:
swanhunter and todd v thanks for fighting the good fight! this is illinois for crying out loud, nothing is easy people! if you thought we were going to get a arizona type ccw your delusional at best. the madigans need money to keep the machine going. this $300 is all about feeding the hungry machine. plenty of states would like to start where we are starting with ccw. its not a perfect bill but its one we can go forward with and improve on.
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I agree 100%.
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