Which one is your favorite and why? I will have to buy my first one, then build the second. I fell pretty sure I will not be able to wait.hich
For the money, RRA.
I personally don't like colts at all. I have seen many nice RRA and Bushys.
Now what the hell is that supposed to mean!?!
My first was a Colt Sp1 carbine, beautiful gun and quality built, but something happened over the years to Colt. Poor customer service, wacky pins, freakin blocks, upper and lower fit quality just went bad. I've also seen new Colts on the store shelf that the upper and lower were different colors. That being said, I think Colt builds excellent barrels, especially the hbars.
The only thing lacking on RRA factory guns is their barrels IMHO, that's why I build completely on RRA (Colt A1 buttstock is my favorite also) and add the barrel of my chosing.
i will never buy a new colt, for a couple of reasons. one, the price. you're paying for a name, and the history of the brand. they like their shit too much.
two, they're waffling over whether or not they're going to make any more rifles in "preban" configuration for civilian consumption. that, to me, is shitty. as shitty as trigger locks on S&W wheelguns, and as shitty as bill ruger supporting and endorsing the AWB.
Show me some documented evidence of that.
+1 for RRA
I like them for the price and finish.
Colt and Bushy's have a very slick finish, I like mine more tactically non reflective.
Never owned a Colt or a Bushy but I love my RRA.
I dont do name brands much either like P806 nor the non standard take down pin that the Colts have.
Never a problem with my bbl either, don't they use Wilson barrels? No Wilson is too shabby, even the chrome/moly ones.
Another sweet deal is that with the RRA complete gun, you also get a 2 stage NM trigger, very nice!
All my current ARs are Colt. Any future ARs will be RRA or Bushmaster.
The hell with colt and their non-milspec pins and anti-civilian attitude. They are over priced and treat the us like shit. Support another firearms making.... you'll be glad you did.
My first was a factory Colt 16" lightweight carbine. Nice finish, very reliable, accurate iron sights, and it comes with the horsey logo on the lower receiver. I've never done anything with Colt parts due to price. One annoying thing about some Colts is the screw in lieu of a pivot pin.
I've put together two uppers and one lower using RRA parts & Bushy barrels. The uppers so far seem OK but they aren't broken in yet. The lower was too tight at the rear lug and I had to relieve it with a dremel to fit any of my three uppers at all. All in all the parts fit together as they were supposed to. The finish on the RRA is very matte and non-reflective, and also harder to wipe off.
If I was made of money I'd probably buy all Colts. But RRA is a great gun too. If you're set on getting an RRA smokey joe in Norcross is the guy to see.
my understanding is that he testified before congress in support of the legislation when it was passed 10 years ago. also, it is my (unresearched) understanding that ruger themselves have never made any magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds.
Actually friend, they do make magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. I have Ruger mags for my P-89 that hold 15, with the Ruger Emblem on the bottom.
I can document the S&W sellout and I can document Glock being in bed with the BATFE on ballistic fingerprinting, yet people still buy those, but because someone "heard" that Bill Ruger did this or that, he gets more bashing by far than either one of the aforementioned sellouts.
Colt installs sear blocks, changes the pins to non-mispec, and stops putting on bayo lugs long before the AWB, all documented by simply looking at a pre-94 Colt, and they don't get bashed like Bill Ruger does based on hearsay.
As for what is shown in red, I would like to know where I got all these 15 round Ruger FACTORY mags for for my P89 and all the 12 round P91 .40 cal FACTORY mags if Ruger never made them!
Don't mean to come off so nasty, but I have yet to have anyone show me documented evidence to back up the claims. Like I said, many who bash Ruger will buy a Glock or S&W in a heartbeat.
This has been going of for some time, at least as far back as 2000, so even a used Glock probably is in this database.
I will document S&W later today. Some will say that the HUD agreement S&W signed is dead, but until they get it vacated in court, it is still enforcable. Just think if Kerry wins.
I have owned several Colt & Bushmaster rifles. All were excellent. However, I don't like Colt's attitude (large pins, sear blocks, not currently offering ‘preban’ style AR-15, etc).
I never owned a RRA, but they seem to have an excellent reputation. There was some talk on AR15.com about RRA dimensions being slightly different from other rifles. Making switching of upper assy's difficult. I have not followed up to see what the results of those discussions.
On the side topic:
I think was pretty common knowledge at the time that Bill Ruger proposed a high capacity magazine ban as compromise to an assault weapon ban.
Here's some info from Neal Knox at the time:
"Steve Sanetti says 'I know better' than to ascribe Bill Ruger's
magazine ban proposal to business considerations. Maybe so; I
don't think Bill is by any means 'anti-gun,' nor do I think he
really _wants_ a ban on either guns or magazines (after all, he
got his start as a machine gun designer). But I do think Bill
Ruger is pushing a plan that would protect his business while
affecting only his competitors, and I think he's damaging the
efforts of those of us attempting to stop all proposed bans.
Further, I don't think his actions on this issue, and other
issues in the past, allows him to be described as 'the strongest
supporter of our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.'
"What I _know_ is that about 9 p.m. the night before Bill sent a
letter to certain members of Congress calling for a ban on
high-capacity magazines he called me, wanting me to push such a
ban. His opening words, after citing the many federal, state and
local bills to ban detachable magazine semi-autos, were 'I want
to save our little gun' -- which he later defined as the Mini-14
and the Mini-30. I'm not ascribing Bill's motives as 'expedient
from a business standpoint;' Bill did.
"While I agree that a ban on over-15 magazines would be
'indefinitely preferable' to a ban on the guns that use them,
that's not the question. Neither I, nor the other gun groups have
ever believed that we were faced with such an either/or choice.
Early last year the NRA legislative Policy committee discussed
various alternatives to the proposed 'assault weapons' ban, and
wisely decided that magazine restrictions wouldn't satisfy our
foes, but would make it more difficult to stop a gun ban.
"I was particularly shocked when I realized Bill was talking
about a ban on possession of over-15-round magazines, rather than
a ban on sales (which is bad enough). I told him that such a law
would make me a felon, for not only did I have standard over-15
magazines for my Glock pistol (a high-capacity which has sharply
cut into Ruger's police business), I have many high-cap mags for
guns I don't even own, and don't even know where they all are.
As I told Bill, after a lifetime of accumulating miscellaneous
gun parts and accessories, there's no way I could clean out all
my old parts drawers and boxes, then swear -- subject to a five
or ten-year Federal prison term -- that I absolutely didn't have
an M3 grease gun mag or 30-round M-2 magazine lying in some
""Bill said (and all these direct quotes are approximate). 'No,
there'd be amnesty for people like you. We have to propose a ban
on possession before they could take us seriously.' He contended
that the public's problem was with 'firepower,' which could be
resolved by eliminating high capacity mags.
"I told him Metzenbaum and Co. would gladly use whatever he
offered, but they weren't about to willingly agree to eliminate
high-cap magazines as a substitute for banning guns; that their
intention isn't to eliminate 'firepower' but 'firearms.'
"Bill finally said, 'Neal, you're being very negative about it.'
He got angry, then said 'Well somebody's got to do it; by God I
will.' And the next day he sent his letter to the Hill; the
evidence indicates a few weeks later he talked SAAMI into
supporting undefined 'regulation' of magazines over-15-rounds --
a vote that might have gone a little differently if any produced
high-capacity magazines as standard for either rifles or pistols.
"I suspect that Ruger and SAAMI's actions are responsible,
directly or indirectly, for the Bush administration's proposal to
ban high-cap mags, but that proposal has been ignored -- except
as evidence that 'the Bush administration and the American
firearms industry recognize there's a problem -- that Americans
shouldn't be allowed to have such guns.'
"Of course, that isn't what Bill Ruger and SAAMI are saying, but
that's the message they're sending. Perhaps it isn't business
expediency to propose banning only that which they don't make, in
an effort to protect what they do make; but it sure can't be
claimed to be in defense of the Second Amendment."
Industry Questioning NRA Role
In Wake of School Shootings, Group Struggles to Hold Loyalty
By Roberto Suro
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, April 25, 1999; Page A06
From the article:
Breaking ranks with the NRA has had consequences in the past. After the Stockton school shooting in 1989, the NRA insisted there could be no compromising on an assault weapons ban. Meanwhile, Sturm, Ruger and Co., a major manufacturer, publicly argued that if such a ban were enacted it should not include the sporting weapons the company produced.
He tried to compromis then later admitted he learned that you can't compromise iwth those people and spent the rest of his life fighting them. What Glock and S&W did were not compromise attempts and neither has retracted what they did.
Take a look at the Mini14 and Mini30, neither ever came close to meeting the requirements of being an AW, so Knox's conjecture is horseshit.
I've tried my best to stay out of this, but...
I posted this in another thread, but I'd like to post it here as well.
I've come to the conclusion that some people will bash Colt no matter what Colt does. Many people do it just because the other guy is doing it and they simply don't have the wherewithall to seek the information for themselves and make an independent decision. This is borne out in the fact that some of the biggest arguments against Colt hold true for all the other manufacturers in some form or another. For example...
People say Colt has non-standard pins while forgetting the fact that every other civilian AR manufacturer uses a non-standard carbine buffer tube precluding the use of some of the most popular aftermarket stocks.
People say Colt uses a sear block while forgetting that every other AR manufacturer with the exception of Bushmaster uses some form of sear block.
People say Colt won't build noban rifles while forgetting that other manufacturers won't even give you the option of a 1:7 twist, chrome-lining, or 4150 barrel steel.
People say Colt doesn't care about our second amendment rights while forgetting that Colt makes rifles for the men and women protecting your right to exercise the second amendment.
BTW, people have been predicting Colt's demise since 1847...
The following links helped me in my decision that Colt builds a better gun.
Tweak's Colt thread
Does Bushmaster MP test every barrel?
Pro's opinion's on AR's
For most people, some of the issues are insignificant or inapplicable. I, however, place a huge amount of trust in my rifle and I feel that only Colt can give me the confidence required to bestow that trust. My rifle is not a plinker or a safe queen. It's sole purpose is to protect my life and property. That is no small task to me so I won't settle for a rifle that I don't feel 100% confident in. Colt builds the best rifle because they have to. Men and women around the world depend on their Colt rifles to save their lives and the lives of others. Colt rifles can't fail. That's good enough for me.
FWIW, I used to be a diehard Bushy fan.
Honestly, I think it has alot to do with what you plan to do with the rifle. 99% of the civilian AR's are fine for what 99% of the civilian AR owners do with them. I was building RRA receivers with Colt barrels and internals before I had the opportunity to buy an all Colt gun. I currently have an RRA lower with a Colt fire control group and a mix of RRA and Colt lower parts that I absolutely love.
Just checked and my POST-BAN colt upper and barrel are both M4 FEED CUT! Woo hoo. No wonder that thing never gave me a problem. What a steal the gun shop never knew what hit them. No more than 5 rounds had been fired through that gun. Eat me! I'm getting the BBL threaded.
Colt if my life depends on it. RRA if I'm a cheap bastard who can talk myself into the idea that RRA is as good as a COLT.
Oh c'mon, Larry. Don't show your ass in typical Colt basher fashion. I'd like to think you're a bit more intelligent than that. I was merely saying that every manufacturer has products or does things that somebody is not going to like yet it seems only Colt catches hell for it. I'm not saying I subscribe the the things I listed. They were simply examples. I will address a couple of things you said, though...
Armalite may or may not have a sear block, but they certainly don't use a standard diameter carbine buffer tube allowing you to install a Vltor, LMT, or Magpul stock without buying another tube (from someone like Colt). That, to me, is far more impractical than large fire control pins since I don't plan on putting a match trigger in my combat weapon (although several manufacturers make match triggers for large pin Colts).
On the issue of nobans versus the barrel issues I listed. Like I said, I'm not condemning the lack of chrome, 4150 steel, or 1:7 twist. I am merely saying that not having these options available when you want them is no better than not being able to get your Colt with evil features. However, it is alot easier for me to replace a FSB and add a FS than it is for me to add chrome, change the twist of the barrel, and make the steel into 4150.
And finally, manufacturers like Bushmaster, et al may want you to believe that they support your rights because they give you FS's and bayo lugs, but what are they doing to support the people out fighting for those freedoms? Colt is still making plenty of civilian AR's, BTW.
I'm not trying to bust your chops, Larry. I used to feel the same way until I really sat down and looked at it from a logical versus emotional perspective. I also did research which led me to my final conclusion.
I have owned Colt, Bushmaster and Rock River Arms AR-15's. All of them have shot well with little or no problems. The few problems I have had was mag related.
I own mostly Colts. One Bushmaster and sold my RRA. Sold it to bank roll a Colt SBR. Nothing was wrong with it.
For the money, the RRA is a very good choice. The barrel on mine wasn't chrome lined but it didn't bother me. I wasn't wading through lakes or streams. I kept it oiled with no problems.
Now you can get Colt, Bushmaster and RRA AR-15 's at good prices.
I can't speak for the other brands.
Get what you want and can afford. Don't forget a few mags and lotsa ammo.
didn't Bushmaster supply a few units with the new M-4's before Colt cryed foul stating the M-4 rifle was thier design therefore causing Bushmaster to loose that contract?
but as far as Colt bashing goes it's just one of those things that is un-avoidable.
like the Ford vs Chevy thing with car guys. It's brand loyalty that makes most go one way or the other not saying some do choose after a fair evaluation of the product but more often than not that is the case.
That or it's brand jealousy.
" I have a Bushmaster and Colts are all overpriced junk"
" Man I wish I had a Colt but all I could afford is this Bushmaster, so to cover the fact I will slam Colt and make everyone think I bought the Bushmaster because it's better".
BTW I have never owned a Colt but would love to try one out. I have however owned both RRA and Bushmaster AR's I liked them both but my opinion was the RRA was a little tighter spec wise but not enough to really matter so I bought another Bushmaster this week hehehe.
No. It was about Bushmaster calling a civilian rifle the M4Gery. Not a damn thing to do with the military.
What a crock. I can afford Colts, I would just rather have ArmaLites.
I perfer a build with a Colt chrome lined barrel and colt bolt. Model 1 carrier. Rock River lower parts. Upper by LAR or CMT. Many good stocks out there any of the major ones. And any lower made by LAR or JV Precision.
I never said you couldn't afford a Colt. I made a broad statement, not pointing fingers at any one person. And what you spend your money on is your buisness you don't need to justify the fact to me or anyone else. I think maybe you took my post a little too personal...
Don't let him bother you, he's as gentle as cat. A big cat.
I own Bushies , RRA's and Colt's .. I like them all. Don't really know why, but the Colt's mean alittle more to me. I guess it's because I carried Colt M16A1's and M16A2's ... But Ive never had any problems out of any of my rifles of any make's............ WarDawg
hey Book's back! hide the porn!
Well, I haven't yet. I am leaning more toward the Colt for my first one. It's kinda of hard to argue against a maker that has been around for over a hundred years. They have to be doing something right to survive that long.
I would suggest holding a few of them. You don't have to shoot them to tell which has the better fit.
I took Maxpain shooting with my Colt A2 and RRA A4 (self built) last weekend. The difference is noticeable.
Between the two I'm leaning towards 100% RRA for the money. No failures in the first 100 rds is a good thing.
My next build will be something on my favorite little RRA lower. This lower has been fantastic, but she has been collecting alot of dust since the pony arrived. Right now she is sporting a RRA parts kit with Colt fire control group as well as a Colt C7 buttstock. I am going to build an all RRA upper consisting of a flat-top and 16" midlength chrome-lined barrel from ADCO. I'm considering a FF tube and PRI flip-up front sight, too. I wonder of Larue makes a midlength FF tube. Hmmm...