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Posted: 12/1/2013 3:09:14 PM EST
Did anything change as far as carrying rifles this year? I don't think so, but figured I would check. Can't find any new statues.

Should still be:

No carrying rifles in public.
Must be unleaded and cased in a vehicle.

Permit to Carry doesn't change anything.



Little off topic: How would you go about carrying a broken down AR-7 (Henry survival rifle), since the mags are generally kept loaded "in" the assembly. Unload the mags and put it in a small cloth case?
Link Posted: 12/1/2013 4:41:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Did anything change as far as carrying rifles this year? I don't think so, but figured I would check. Can't find any new statues.

Should still be:

No carrying rifles in public.
Must be unleaded and cased in a vehicle.

Permit to Carry doesn't change anything.



Little off topic: How would you go about carrying a broken down AR-7 (Henry survival rifle), since the mags are generally kept loaded "in" the assembly. Unload the mags and put it in a small cloth case?
View Quote


From my understanding Permit to Carry allows you to carry in public places and uncased.
Taken from 624.7181 RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS IN PUBLIC PLACES.
(b) "Carry" does not include:

(1) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun to, from, or at a place where firearms are repaired, bought, sold, traded, or displayed, or where hunting, target shooting, or other lawful activity involving firearms occurs, or at funerals, parades, or other lawful ceremonies;

(2) the carrying by a person of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun that is unloaded and in a gun case expressly made to contain a firearm, if the case fully encloses the firearm by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened, and no portion of the firearm is exposed;

(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714;

(4) the carrying of an antique firearm as a curiosity or for its historical significance or value; or

(5) the transporting of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun in compliance with section 97B.045.
Link Posted: 12/1/2013 5:28:58 PM EST
Why in Odin's name would you want to be open carrying a rifle as your CCW?
Link Posted: 12/1/2013 9:05:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BumLeg:

(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714;
View Quote


Your reading too much into this.

A rifle is not an option for CCW in MN, period. Your CCW permit does NOT allow you to open carry a rifle in public.

Do not become an example of what NOT to do...
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 4:14:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By norseman1:


Your reading too much into this.

A rifle is not an option for CCW in MN, period. Your CCW permit does NOT allow you to open carry a rifle in public.

Do not become an example of what NOT to do...
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Originally Posted By norseman1:
Originally Posted By BumLeg:

(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714;


Your reading too much into this.

A rifle is not an option for CCW in MN, period. Your CCW permit does NOT allow you to open carry a rifle in public.

Do not become an example of what NOT to do...
And in a vehicle it must be uncased and unloaded. PTC doesn't change this, correct? (rifles)
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 5:04:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By norseman1:


Your reading too much into this.

A rifle is not an option for CCW in MN, period. Your CCW permit does NOT allow you to open carry a rifle in public.

Do not become an example of what NOT to do...
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Originally Posted By norseman1:
Originally Posted By BumLeg:

(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714;


Your reading too much into this.

A rifle is not an option for CCW in MN, period. Your CCW permit does NOT allow you to open carry a rifle in public.

Do not become an example of what NOT to do...


Then what does that section specifically apply to?
That's how I read it as if you have a PTC, it allows you to carry long guns in public.
Is it a wise choice, probably not as I wouldn't do it.

Link Posted: 12/2/2013 5:13:17 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
And in a vehicle it must be uncased and unloaded. PTC doesn't change this, correct? (rifles)
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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By norseman1:
Originally Posted By BumLeg:

(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714;


Your reading too much into this.

A rifle is not an option for CCW in MN, period. Your CCW permit does NOT allow you to open carry a rifle in public.

Do not become an example of what NOT to do...
And in a vehicle it must be uncased and unloaded. PTC doesn't change this, correct? (rifles)


transporting firearms in a vehicle by the following
1. If unloaded and cased in a gun case, it can be stored anywhere in the vehicle.
2. Unloaded and place in the rear most portion of a vehicle if not in a gun case.
3. DNR rule:
under the following circumstances, a person may transport unloaded,
uncased firearms (excluding pistols) in a motor vehicle, including ATVs:
• while at a shooting range with permission
• while lawfully hunting on private or public land or while travelling to
or from a site the person intends to hunt or trap or has lawfully hunted
that day.
Firearms must be transported unloaded and cased:
• within Anoka, Hennepin, or Ramsey counties.
• within the boundaries of a home rule, charter, or statutory city with a
population of 2,500 or more.
• on school grounds
• as otherwise restricted in game refuges, shining or night vision laws

In other words, the way I understand it, PTC has no affect the transportation rules on long guns.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 5:15:48 AM EST
And what is this CCW? I thought MN had Permit To Carry.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 6:10:54 AM EST
On the permit itself it plainly states, "State of Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol". No mention of rifle anywhere
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 7:20:05 AM EST
Questions for clarification

I bought a rifle from a gun shop that comes with a case. Lets say a pawn shop in downtown. While walking to my vehicle with my new rifle in it's case, am I guilty of carrying a rifle in public?

Attending a local trap league, I carry my shotgun, uncased and unloaded, from my vehicle to the clubhouse or trap station. Am I guilty of carrying a shotgun in public?

Link Posted: 12/2/2013 9:23:19 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By norseman1:


Your reading too much into this.

A rifle is not an option for CCW in MN, period. Your CCW permit does NOT allow you to open carry a rifle in public.

Do not become an example of what NOT to do...
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Originally Posted By norseman1:
Originally Posted By BumLeg:

(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714;


Your reading too much into this.

A rifle is not an option for CCW in MN, period. Your CCW permit does NOT allow you to open carry a rifle in public.

Do not become an example of what NOT to do...

Now, I am not a lawyer, but 624.7181 seems very clear to me, and I would not say anyone is overly "reading into" anything. It says right there that it is a gross misdemeanor to carry a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun on or about the person in a public place, unless you are bringing it to or from a gun store or similar, carrying it unloaded and cased, or carrying it as a PTC holder. According to 97B.045, you are still required to have a long gun unloaded and cased while in a vehicle, but unless someone knows of another statute to the contrary, 624.7181 does not apply to permit holders.

That being said, I would not do it myself, because it does seem like the kind of thing that would go wrong quickly if you came across the wrong police officer that was unsure of the laws, but it is not illegal.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 1:06:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Wormfood:
Questions for clarification

I bought a rifle from a gun shop that comes with a case. Lets say a pawn shop in downtown. While walking to my vehicle with my new rifle in it's case, am I guilty of carrying a rifle in public?

View Quote


No. It may be a different answer if you have loaded magazines for said rifle in the case or on your person....

Link Posted: 12/2/2013 1:42:40 PM EST
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Originally Posted By mcnielsen:


No. It may be a different answer if you have loaded magazines for said rifle in the case or on your person....

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Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
Originally Posted By Wormfood:
Questions for clarification

I bought a rifle from a gun shop that comes with a case. Lets say a pawn shop in downtown. While walking to my vehicle with my new rifle in it's case, am I guilty of carrying a rifle in public?



No. It may be a different answer if you have loaded magazines for said rifle in the case or on your person....



The questions were scenarios on what the statute exempts as carrying in public. Because the way I follow it, if the answers to those are no, then wouldn't clause 3 be no too?

Your carry permit is for handguns/pistols, but 624.7181 (b) (3) makes it an exemption for long guns if you have a PTC. Although it does not specify loaded or unloaded.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 2:42:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2013 2:46:36 PM EST by norseman1]
Your carry permit in MN does NOT allow you to carry an uncased rifle in public areas. Period.

There is simply no arguing it any other way.
If you walk around with a rifle in a case, that's legal, but, it cannot be loaded either.

Call the DNR or your local LEO or the Sheriff's dept and find out if you don't believe what has been posted.
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 3:04:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2013 3:06:18 PM EST by Wormfood]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By norseman1:
Your carry permit in MN does NOT allow you to carry an uncased rifle in public areas. Period.

There is simply no arguing it any other way.
If you walk around with a rifle in a case, that's legal, but, it cannot be loaded either.

Call the DNR or your local LEO or the Sheriff's dept and find out if you don't believe what has been posted.
View Quote


Question still stands, what is that section of the statute specifically for then in your opinion?

Link Posted: 12/2/2013 3:15:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Wormfood:


The questions were scenarios on what the statute exempts as carrying in public. Because the way I follow it, if the answers to those are no, then wouldn't clause 3 be no too?

Your carry permit is for handguns/pistols, but 624.7181 (b) (3) makes it an exemption for long guns if you have a PTC. Although it does not specify loaded or unloaded.
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Originally Posted By Wormfood:
Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
Originally Posted By Wormfood:
Questions for clarification

I bought a rifle from a gun shop that comes with a case. Lets say a pawn shop in downtown. While walking to my vehicle with my new rifle in it's case, am I guilty of carrying a rifle in public?



No. It may be a different answer if you have loaded magazines for said rifle in the case or on your person....



The questions were scenarios on what the statute exempts as carrying in public. Because the way I follow it, if the answers to those are no, then wouldn't clause 3 be no too?

Your carry permit is for handguns/pistols, but 624.7181 (b) (3) makes it an exemption for long guns if you have a PTC. Although it does not specify loaded or unloaded.
You have stumped me.

Got this email back today:

The Permit to Carry law applies only to pistols. Please consult with local law enforcement if you have questions about transporting your rifle.

BCA Permit To Carry
bca.permittocarry@state.mn.us
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxSent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 6:42 PM
To: *DPS_BCA PermitToCarry
Subject: Question regarding carrying rifles with a permit.

What are the laws on carrying a rifle both in public AND in a vehicle when the person has a permit to carry? I can't seem to find a clarity in the statutes on this subject.

Thank You,


Seems to contradict 624.7181 (b) (3).

I sent a reply back with this statute to see what they say. This is interesting that there seems to be confusion and conflicting laws.


Link Posted: 12/2/2013 3:29:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
You have stumped me.

Got this email back today:

The Permit to Carry law applies only to pistols. Please consult with local law enforcement if you have questions about transporting your rifle.

BCA Permit To Carry
bca.permittocarry@state.mn.us
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxSent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 6:42 PM
To: *DPS_BCA PermitToCarry
Subject: Question regarding carrying rifles with a permit.

What are the laws on carrying a rifle both in public AND in a vehicle when the person has a permit to carry? I can't seem to find a clarity in the statutes on this subject.

Thank You,



Seems to contradict 624.7181 (b) (3).
[div style='text-indent: 20px;']

[div style='text-indent: 20px;']I sent a reply back with this statute to see what they say. This is interesting that there seems to be confusion and conflicting laws.


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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By Wormfood:
Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
Originally Posted By Wormfood:
Questions for clarification

I bought a rifle from a gun shop that comes with a case. Lets say a pawn shop in downtown. While walking to my vehicle with my new rifle in it's case, am I guilty of carrying a rifle in public?



No. It may be a different answer if you have loaded magazines for said rifle in the case or on your person....



The questions were scenarios on what the statute exempts as carrying in public. Because the way I follow it, if the answers to those are no, then wouldn't clause 3 be no too?

Your carry permit is for handguns/pistols, but 624.7181 (b) (3) makes it an exemption for long guns if you have a PTC. Although it does not specify loaded or unloaded.
You have stumped me.

Got this email back today:

The Permit to Carry law applies only to pistols. Please consult with local law enforcement if you have questions about transporting your rifle.

BCA Permit To Carry
bca.permittocarry@state.mn.us
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxSent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 6:42 PM
To: *DPS_BCA PermitToCarry
Subject: Question regarding carrying rifles with a permit.

What are the laws on carrying a rifle both in public AND in a vehicle when the person has a permit to carry? I can't seem to find a clarity in the statutes on this subject.

Thank You,



Seems to contradict 624.7181 (b) (3).
[div style='text-indent: 20px;']

[div style='text-indent: 20px;']I sent a reply back with this statute to see what they say. This is interesting that there seems to be confusion and conflicting laws.




That was a pretty generic response considering you sited a specific section of code. Just for kicks, could you reply to them and ask specifically what section of the code they are using to come to this determination?
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 3:32:28 PM EST
I didn't mention the specific statute in my original email, just in the reply I sent tonight. Should have an answer back tomorrow I imagine.

For some reason, the email quote didn't appear in a quote box. So much for a WYSIWYG editor!
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 3:51:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/2/2013 6:27:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By norseman1:
Your carry permit in MN does NOT allow you to carry an uncased rifle in public areas. Period.

There is simply no arguing it any other way.
If you walk around with a rifle in a case, that's legal, but, it cannot be loaded either.

Call the DNR or your local LEO or the Sheriff's dept and find out if you don't believe what has been posted.
View Quote


The statute says one thing, you say another. Which are we to believe?

Link Posted: 12/3/2013 6:14:45 AM EST
Got the reply back folks:

"624.7181 is a statute with definitions at the beginning. It gives you the definition of the words used in the statute. The lines you specify are telling you that carrying of the weapons listed is NOT covered in statute 624.714 (permit to carry). 624.714 deals only with pistols. It then goes on to give the penalties for carrying a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun in a public place."



Right from the BCA.


Why can't they write this shit in plain English?

Still doesn't make sense to me: You can't carry a long gun. Carrying law doesn't apply if you have a PTC.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 6:26:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/3/2013 6:35:41 AM EST by Rat_Patrol]
I think the guy is wrong/pushing agenda.

Why:

624.7181 Subdivision 1 (b) 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 say what you are allowed to do in the language of "except". You can't carry a long gun EXCEPT 1: where you bought/sold it. 2: In a case. 3: by those with a permit to carry. 4: antique. 5: In compliance with 97B.045, where the only reference is made to handguns with a PTC.

As I read it, carrying a long gun with a PTC is plainly excluded from 624.7181 Subdivision 2: Penalties.

The only thing that supports what the guy from BCA says:
97B.045 TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS.
Subdivision 1.Restrictions. A person may not transport a firearm in a motor vehicle unless the firearm is:
(1) unloaded and in a gun case expressly made to contain a firearm, and the case fully encloses the firearm by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened, and without any portion of the firearm exposed;
(2) unloaded and in the closed trunk of a motor vehicle; or
(3) a handgun carried in compliance with sections 624.714 and 624.715.

Which clearly is in contradiction with:
624.7181 RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS IN PUBLIC PLACES.
Subdivision 1.Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following terms have the meanings given them.
(a) "BB gun" means a device that fires or ejects a shot measuring .18 of an inch or less in diameter.
(b) "Carry" does not include:
(1) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun to, from, or at a place where firearms are repaired, bought, sold, traded, or displayed, or where hunting, target shooting, or other lawful activity involving firearms occurs, or at funerals, parades, or other lawful ceremonies;
(2) the carrying by a person of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun that is unloaded and in a gun case expressly made to contain a firearm, if the case fully encloses the firearm by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened, and no portion of the firearm is exposed;
(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714;

I'm no constitutional scholar, but what is going on?
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 6:28:37 AM EST
97B.045 also only applies to transportation in VEHICLES.

I think you can carry your AR in public, but this needs to get sorted out. Why would you carry it? I probably never will. But the laws need to be clarified.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 6:32:13 AM EST
How does something like this get sorted out? Outside of defending yourself in court, that is..
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 8:40:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
How does something like this get sorted out? Outside of defending yourself in court, that is..
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By getting the legislature to pass a law clarifying their intent. Right now, with the current make up of the MN legislature, is not the time to be asking for clarification.
Link Posted: 12/3/2013 9:07:44 PM EST
I know it isn't the best source but I was told by my PTC instructor that with the permit you could carry a long gun like a CCW permit. Although he severely advised against it. Because of this I never bothered to really look into it and would sometimes throw a loaded AR in my trunk when out in the country.

I would like clarification too.
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 6:45:44 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Spagehttie:
I know it isn't the best source but I was told by my PTC instructor that with the permit you could carry a long gun like a CCW permit. Although he severely advised against it. Because of this I never bothered to really look into it and would sometimes throw a loaded AR in my trunk when out in the country.

I would like clarification too.
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I was told the same thing when I took my class.

This needs clarification.

I do believe you must unload/case your rifle in your vehicle, however.
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 8:01:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/4/2013 8:09:12 AM EST by Wormfood]
97B.045 TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS.


Subdivision 1.Restrictions.

A person may not transport a firearm in a motor vehicle unless the firearm is:

(1) unloaded and in a gun case expressly made to contain a firearm, and the case fully encloses the firearm by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened, and without any portion of the firearm exposed;

(2) unloaded and in the closed trunk of a motor vehicle; or

(3) a handgun carried in compliance with sections 624.714 and 624.715.


In a motor vehicle, all firearms must comply with 1 or 2 unless you have a PTC, covered by 3 or complying with the DNR rule on

Subd. 3.Exceptions; hunting and shooting ranges.

(a) Notwithstanding provisions to the contrary under this chapter, a person may transport an unloaded, uncased firearm, excluding a pistol as defined in paragraph (b), in a motor vehicle while at a shooting range, as defined under section 87A.01, subdivision 3, where the person has received permission from the lawful owner or possessor to discharge firearms; lawfully hunting on private or public land; or travelling to or from a site the person intends to hunt lawfully that day or has hunted lawfully that day, unless:

(1) within Anoka, Hennepin, or Ramsey County;

(2) within the boundaries of a home rule charter or statutory city with a population of 2,500 or more;

(3) on school grounds; or

(4) otherwise restricted under section 97A.091, 97B.081, or 97B.086.

(b) For the purposes of this section, a "pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle:


Once outside a motor vehicle, the laws seems to allow carry of rifles and shotguns if you have a PTC or other listed exemptions under "Carry does not include".

Link Posted: 12/4/2013 10:58:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Wormfood:

Once outside a motor vehicle, the laws seems to allow carry of rifles and shotguns if you have a PTC or other listed exemptions under "Carry does not include".

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Not according the the BCA guy..

But I completely agree with you.
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 10:59:50 AM EST
or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle:


Does this mean that a SBR is legal to carry uncased in a vehicle?
Link Posted: 12/4/2013 1:27:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle:



Does this mean that a SBR is legal to carry uncased in a vehicle?
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I'm going to say no for SBR. Not designed to be fired from a single hand.
An AR/AK pistol you could.


Link Posted: 12/4/2013 5:48:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 2:36:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 3:32:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dpmmn:

When I'm up in NoDak I have my rifle on the dash
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Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:
Or... Cross the state line to ND, and you can drive around with the gun next to you in the front seat... Magazine loaded, inserted in rifle, just no round in the chamber...

I never knew this kind of freedom in MN!

When I'm up in NoDak I have my rifle on the dash

So, from reading the statutes and it (seems) is legal to carry in public with a PTC. NO GO in vehicle (how stupid is that?). WHO DO WE (I) CONTACT TO CONFIRM? I think the BCA guy is wrong.
Link Posted: 12/6/2013 5:14:10 PM EST
In 2011 the Research Department at the MN House of Representatives wrote a 6 page information brief that describes firearm use, transportation and carry in MN.

On the bottom of page 5 they go into what has been discussed here, although not very in depth: http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/firearmsMN.pdf
Link Posted: 12/6/2013 6:25:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/6/2013 7:54:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/7/2013 5:40:32 PM EST
Where I get caught up is 624.7181, subdivision 1, (b), 3 that carry does not include: the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section.

To me, who is not a lawyer, that would mean that for the purposes of 624.7181 somebody with a carry permit carrying a rifle, shotgun, ecc. is not considered to be carrying, and therefore not subject to the penalties in subdivision 2. But again, I'm not a lawyer, or more importantly, a DA.
Link Posted: 12/8/2013 3:39:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2bsss:
Where I get caught up is 624.7181, subdivision 1, (b), 3 that carry does not include: the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section.

To me, who is not a lawyer, that would mean that for the purposes of 624.7181 somebody with a carry permit carrying a rifle, shotgun, ecc. is not considered to be carrying, and therefore not subject to the penalties in subdivision 2. But again, I'm not a lawyer, or more importantly, a DA.
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That's what is confusing to me too. Sub 1(b)(1) apparently makes it legal to carry the rifle to or from a place where it is sold or used for hunting or target shooting. Sub 1(b)(2) apparently makes it legal to carry the rifle if it is in a case. By that logic, why does sub 1(b)(3) not mean that it is legal to carry the rifle if you have a permit to carry?

I think the question that most of us are still wondering is this- If "(3) the carrying of a BB gun, rifle, or shotgun by a person who has a permit under section 624.714; " does not mean that it is legal, what DOES it mean? Why is that line even in the statute at all?
Link Posted: 12/8/2013 5:28:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sully:
I am aware of several incidents and individuals who have carried a rifle or shotgun in a public place, who had permits to carry, they were each arrested, booked into jail where they each spent several days behind bars before seeing a judge who set bail. Once they made bail, they were prosecuted, convicted, had to pay fines in excess of $3k-4K, lost their firearms, and lost their permits to carry forever (yes forever, as this is a weapons violation and if convicted of such you could lose your firearms rights)
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Can you provide a link or case #? Not calling bullshit, but I think lots of folks here would like to learn more about it.

Link Posted: 12/8/2013 8:06:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/8/2013 8:17:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/8/2013 9:24:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dpmmn:
honestly I can't figure out why you would want to carry a rifle in public, you are just asking for trouble and in the wrong area you could get yourself shot
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Disgusting. I have no intentions to ever carry anything but a handgun in public, but it is disheartening when you come across people, especially those within the gun community, that don't believe that people should still have rights. Just because you don't want to do something, doesn't mean that others should be stripped of their right.

I am simply trying to determine WHY it is illegal, if it even is. I understand the idea of precedent and case law, and I have to assume that one judge's loose interpretation of the statute is what has made it illegal. However, I can very clearly see that there is an exception in the statute for people with a permit to carry, and nobody has explained to me why I am wrong. Saying "Nope its illegal, trust me. I'll arrest you if you do it" doesn't quite satisfy me.
Link Posted: 12/8/2013 10:59:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By vivalamatt:

Disgusting. I have no intentions to ever carry anything but a handgun in public, but it is disheartening when you come across people, especially those within the gun community, that don't believe that people should still have rights. Just because you don't want to do something, doesn't mean that others should be stripped of their right.

I am simply trying to determine WHY it is illegal, if it even is. I understand the idea of precedent and case law, and I have to assume that one judge's loose interpretation of the statute is what has made it illegal. However, I can very clearly see that there is an exception in the statute for people with a permit to carry, and nobody has explained to me why I am wrong. Saying "Nope its illegal, trust me. I'll arrest you if you do it" doesn't quite satisfy me.
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Originally Posted By vivalamatt:
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
honestly I can't figure out why you would want to carry a rifle in public, you are just asking for trouble and in the wrong area you could get yourself shot

Disgusting. I have no intentions to ever carry anything but a handgun in public, but it is disheartening when you come across people, especially those within the gun community, that don't believe that people should still have rights. Just because you don't want to do something, doesn't mean that others should be stripped of their right.

I am simply trying to determine WHY it is illegal, if it even is. I understand the idea of precedent and case law, and I have to assume that one judge's loose interpretation of the statute is what has made it illegal. However, I can very clearly see that there is an exception in the statute for people with a permit to carry, and nobody has explained to me why I am wrong. Saying "Nope its illegal, trust me. I'll arrest you if you do it" doesn't quite satisfy me.


I never said I had intentions of carrying a long arm in public. I don't even OC though I just do it to give me slight advantage in surprise if I ever have to use it When I go down to my hometown in the SW there is a lot of back roads, public land and farmlands that I would just have a condition 3 AR or AK in my trunk or back seat in case I ran across a critter considered a varmint when visiting friends who live out there (not shooting from the road or vehicle). This is good to know so I can stop before getting in trouble.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:27:44 AM EST
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Originally Posted By vivalamatt:

Disgusting. I have no intentions to ever carry anything but a handgun in public, but it is disheartening when you come across people, especially those within the gun community, that don't believe that people should still have rights. Just because you don't want to do something, doesn't mean that others should be stripped of their right.
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Originally Posted By vivalamatt:
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
honestly I can't figure out why you would want to carry a rifle in public, you are just asking for trouble and in the wrong area you could get yourself shot

Disgusting. I have no intentions to ever carry anything but a handgun in public, but it is disheartening when you come across people, especially those within the gun community, that don't believe that people should still have rights. Just because you don't want to do something, doesn't mean that others should be stripped of their right.


I'd like to know how you're drawing that conclusion from the quoted text.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:31:10 AM EST
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Originally Posted By sully:
If you know me or anything about me
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Originally Posted By sully:
If you know me or anything about me


Sorry, I don't. You're just another faceless username on the internet.


Originally Posted By sully:
I will not give names of individuals, so you can do your own research if you want through the State of Minnesota as they have records.


That is exactly what I was hoping to do, preferably starting with a case # or similar.



Link Posted: 12/9/2013 9:34:46 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:


Sorry, I don't. You're just another faceless username on the internet.




That is exactly what I was hoping to do, preferably starting with a case # or similar.



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Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
Originally Posted By sully:
If you know me or anything about me


Sorry, I don't. You're just another faceless username on the internet.


Originally Posted By sully:
I will not give names of individuals, so you can do your own research if you want through the State of Minnesota as they have records.


That is exactly what I was hoping to do, preferably starting with a case # or similar.






I have spoken with the individual in question personally. He told me his story and it was a stupid mistake to carry his shotgun in public-he had no intent to do so. He spent the weekend in jail and only by securing an attorney and spending thousands in legal fees was he able to retain his rights to own and carry a firearm.

Secondly, we are not talking about carrying a rifle in public for either HUNTING purposes OR SHTF purposes. If you think that people are going to be concerned about you patrolling your own property with a rifle if the SHTF you have too much time on your hands.

What we are talking about are people walking down the street in urban and suburban neighborhoods or business districts with long guns: Shotguns, rifles, whatever.

If you are going to make the argument that if you are walking down Nicollet Mall during the Holidazzle Parade and see a guy wearing a chest rig and an AK47 variant moving through the crowd that you would say to yourself: "Gee, there goes a positive example of a good American exercising his 2nd Amendment rights." then you are completely insane. Open display of long guns in a non-combat or non-hunting situation is insane. If I were to see that, I would see a threat. If you don't see it that way, you are only kidding yourself. Open carry activists do more to alienate people to responsible gun ownership than the anti-gun people do in my opinion.

And since this is the internet and some of you don't know me (many of you do) consult a lawyer or a judge instead of taking my word for it. Walk down the street open carrying a rifle in my neighborhood and I am moving my family for cover and calling the police.

How, exactly, do you tell the difference between an active shooter and a pro 2A activist? CCW Badges?
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 10:56:04 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
I have spoken with the individual in question personally. He told me his story and it was a stupid mistake to carry his shotgun in public-he had no intent to do so. He spent the weekend in jail and only by securing an attorney and spending thousands in legal fees was he able to retain his rights to own and carry a firearm.

Secondly, we are not talking about carrying a rifle in public for either HUNTING purposes OR SHTF purposes. If you think that people are going to be concerned about you patrolling your own property with a rifle if the SHTF you have too much time on your hands.

What we are talking about are people walking down the street in urban and suburban neighborhoods or business districts with long guns: Shotguns, rifles, whatever.

If you are going to make the argument that if you are walking down Nicollet Mall during the Holidazzle Parade and see a guy wearing a chest rig and an AK47 variant moving through the crowd that you would say to yourself: "Gee, there goes a positive example of a good American exercising his 2nd Amendment rights." then you are completely insane. Open display of long guns in a non-combat or non-hunting situation is insane. If I were to see that, I would see a threat. If you don't see it that way, you are only kidding yourself. Open carry activists do more to alienate people to responsible gun ownership than the anti-gun people do in my opinion.

And since this is the internet and some of you don't know me (many of you do) consult a lawyer or a judge instead of taking my word for it. Walk down the street open carrying a rifle in my neighborhood and I am moving my family for cover and calling the police.

How, exactly, do you tell the difference between an active shooter and a pro 2A activist? CCW Badges?
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Not sure if your comment was directed at me or not - I assume so but your post seems to assume I have a desire to carry an AK or similar when I go to the store to get a bag of chips or something. I don't. And I completely agree with you - any situation (outside of hunting etc.) I think of where carrying a rifle becomes an operational necessity is also a situation where law enforcement is either unwilling or unable to do their duty. I'm not concerned at all about that.

Rather, I'm interested in something other than internet opinions. Our local prosecutor (Maplewood) is pretty clear that they are not there to interpret laws for the public and therefore is of no help in this area.

That is why I'm looking for a case # etc - I'm just interested in more information.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 10:59:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2013 11:00:53 AM EST by ElementArms]
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Originally Posted By mcnielsen:



I have spoken with the individual in question personally. He told me his story and it was a stupid mistake to carry his shotgun in public-he had no intent to do so. He spent the weekend in jail and only by securing an attorney and spending thousands in legal fees was he able to retain his rights to own and carry a firearm.

Secondly, we are not talking about carrying a rifle in public for either HUNTING purposes OR SHTF purposes. If you think that people are going to be concerned about you patrolling your own property with a rifle if the SHTF you have too much time on your hands.

What we are talking about are people walking down the street in urban and suburban neighborhoods or business districts with long guns: Shotguns, rifles, whatever.

If you are going to make the argument that if you are walking down Nicollet Mall during the Holidazzle Parade and see a guy wearing a chest rig and an AK47 variant moving through the crowd that you would say to yourself: "Gee, there goes a positive example of a good American exercising his 2nd Amendment rights." then you are completely insane. Open display of long guns in a non-combat or non-hunting situation is insane. If I were to see that, I would see a threat. If you don't see it that way, you are only kidding yourself. Open carry activists do more to alienate people to responsible gun ownership than the anti-gun people do in my opinion.

And since this is the internet and some of you don't know me (many of you do) consult a lawyer or a judge instead of taking my word for it. Walk down the street open carrying a rifle in my neighborhood and I am moving my family for cover and calling the police.

How, exactly, do you tell the difference between an active shooter and a pro 2A activist? CCW Badges?
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Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
Originally Posted By sully:
If you know me or anything about me


Sorry, I don't. You're just another faceless username on the internet.


Originally Posted By sully:
I will not give names of individuals, so you can do your own research if you want through the State of Minnesota as they have records.


That is exactly what I was hoping to do, preferably starting with a case # or similar.






I have spoken with the individual in question personally. He told me his story and it was a stupid mistake to carry his shotgun in public-he had no intent to do so. He spent the weekend in jail and only by securing an attorney and spending thousands in legal fees was he able to retain his rights to own and carry a firearm.

Secondly, we are not talking about carrying a rifle in public for either HUNTING purposes OR SHTF purposes. If you think that people are going to be concerned about you patrolling your own property with a rifle if the SHTF you have too much time on your hands.

What we are talking about are people walking down the street in urban and suburban neighborhoods or business districts with long guns: Shotguns, rifles, whatever.

If you are going to make the argument that if you are walking down Nicollet Mall during the Holidazzle Parade and see a guy wearing a chest rig and an AK47 variant moving through the crowd that you would say to yourself: "Gee, there goes a positive example of a good American exercising his 2nd Amendment rights." then you are completely insane. Open display of long guns in a non-combat or non-hunting situation is insane. If I were to see that, I would see a threat. If you don't see it that way, you are only kidding yourself. Open carry activists do more to alienate people to responsible gun ownership than the anti-gun people do in my opinion.

And since this is the internet and some of you don't know me (many of you do) consult a lawyer or a judge instead of taking my word for it. Walk down the street open carrying a rifle in my neighborhood and I am moving my family for cover and calling the police.

How, exactly, do you tell the difference between an active shooter and a pro 2A activist? CCW Badges?


By the beer gut and clown shoes!
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:28:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:

Not sure if your comment was directed at me or not - I assume so but your post seems to assume I have a desire to carry an AK or similar when I go to the store to get a bag of chips or something. I don't. And I completely agree with you - any situation (outside of hunting etc.) I think of where carrying a rifle becomes an operational necessity is also a situation where law enforcement is either unwilling or unable to do their duty. I'm not concerned at all about that.

Rather, I'm interested in something other than internet opinions. Our local prosecutor (Maplewood) is pretty clear that they are not there to interpret laws for the public and therefore is of no help in this area.

That is why I'm looking for a case # etc - I'm just interested in more information.
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Not directed at you specifically, just at the general insanity of why people want to press the issue of open carry of long guns.

As far as the case number goes, I can see why people wouldn't want their dirty laundry or mistakes publicly aired on an internet forum, can't you? The person in question is a poster on local gun forums and a professional with a career and a family. Though he hasn't posted here in quite a while, I can surely respect other members desire for his privacy.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:34:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By mcnielsen:I have spoken with the individual in question personally. He told me his story and it was a stupid mistake to carry his shotgun in public-he had no intent to do so. He spent the weekend in jail and only by securing an attorney and spending thousands in legal fees was he able to retain his rights to own and carry a firearm.

Secondly, we are not talking about carrying a rifle in public for either HUNTING purposes OR SHTF purposes. If you think that people are going to be concerned about you patrolling your own property with a rifle if the SHTF you have too much time on your hands.

What we are talking about are people walking down the street in urban and suburban neighborhoods or business districts with long guns: Shotguns, rifles, whatever.

If you are going to make the argument that if you are walking down Nicollet Mall during the Holidazzle Parade and see a guy wearing a chest rig and an AK47 variant moving through the crowd that you would say to yourself: "Gee, there goes a positive example of a good American exercising his 2nd Amendment rights." then you are completely insane. Open display of long guns in a non-combat or non-hunting situation is insane. If I were to see that, I would see a threat. If you don't see it that way, you are only kidding yourself. Open carry activists do more to alienate people to responsible gun ownership than the anti-gun people do in my opinion.

And since this is the internet and some of you don't know me (many of you do) consult a lawyer or a judge instead of taking my word for it. Walk down the street open carrying a rifle in my neighborhood and I am moving my family for cover and calling the police.

How, exactly, do you tell the difference between an active shooter and a pro 2A activist? CCW Badges?
View Quote


You should get out of state a little more, in AZ it's not unusual to see a long gun carried openly especially outside of the metro area. And very very common, anywhere from downtown to the mall, to see openly carried handguns. MN is less friendly to individuals exercising their rights however and people here are also seem to be scared of guns.
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