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Posted: 2/25/2007 1:44:03 AM EST
I know that some of you will disagree with the premise of this post, but I am looking for a carry gun and have decided I will try the tiny is mighty theory. I am looking for a gun that I can carry in my pocket or in a very small holster so that I will be more likely to carry it.
Candidates include:
Seecamp .32
Keltec .32
Taurus PT .22 (not sure how I feel about relying on rimfire if I NEED the bullet to work every time)
Berretta 21 in .25
Anybody have any thoughts on these weapons? I know that they would be mostly useless in a tactical shootout, but I am beginning to feel more and more that if some idiot is walking around a public place plugging innocents while they are cowering on the ground, that is not the way that I want my wife or I to go. I have a full size and a compact frame 9mm, and I like them. If I thought I was going someplace where a shoot-out would ensue, I would not go, but if I had to, I would take the FAL. So what is the best handgun is not my question. I want to know, what is the best pistol that has at least 5 shots and will fit in my pocket. I also would like to have a chance of hitting something 8-10 feet away at least (outside of knife/bat/club range)
I also might carry it while running/riding my bike so durable and light is good.
I will not display it to all of my friends, it is none of their business that I am carrying, so looks are not important.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 3:10:21 AM EST
S&W 431 .32 H&R mag was discontinued last year and the price is already climbing, but you can still find one. It is small enough and light enough that you can forget about it in your pocket.
I had a keltec .32 and replaced it with the S&W. A lot of people love their keltecs. Others try to shoot them often. It was always something that needed one more fluffing and buffing trick.
The .25 moves a 50 grain bullet at 800 fps at the muzzle. For most people, a one pound fist delivers more energy at a slightly greater range.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 3:15:57 AM EST
Kel-Tec PT-3AT..............................hands down, for the smallest carry but largest caliber in that size.

Best pocket gun I ever shot.....
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 7:18:59 AM EST
Keltec made a P40 (40S&W), I had for for a couple of years and sold it to a friend, great little pocket gun, beat the hell out of my poor old trigger finger though. Now I carry a Kimber Ultra CDPII and love it.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 7:34:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1carlson:
I know that some of you will disagree with the premise of this post, but I am looking for a carry gun and have decided I will try the tiny is mighty theory. I am looking for a gun that I can carry in my pocket or in a very small holster so that I will be more likely to carry it.
Candidates include:
Seecamp .32
Keltec .32
Taurus PT .22 (not sure how I feel about relying on rimfire if I NEED the bullet to work every time)
Berretta 21 in .25
Anybody have any thoughts on these weapons? I know that they would be mostly useless in a tactical shootout, but I am beginning to feel more and more that if some idiot is walking around a public place plugging innocents while they are cowering on the ground, that is not the way that I want my wife or I to go. I have a full size and a compact frame 9mm, and I like them. If I thought I was going someplace where a shoot-out would ensue, I would not go, but if I had to, I would take the FAL. So what is the best handgun is not my question. I want to know, what is the best pistol that has at least 5 shots and will fit in my pocket. I also would like to have a chance of hitting something 8-10 feet away at least (outside of knife/bat/club range)
I also might carry it while running/riding my bike so durable and light is good.
I will not display it to all of my friends, it is none of their business that I am carrying, so looks are not important.


My thoughts are that I wouldn't carry any of them. If you want something small get a S&W 'J' frame in .38 spl.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 8:22:20 AM EST
S&W 342PD, hands down!

Meets your 5-shot minimum capacity requirement. 38 special+P has alot more ass than any of the others that you mentioned, but the recoil is manageable for an experienced shooter.

I believe they are discontinued. The 340PD is the .357 mag version still available new, but after having put many rounds through both my 342 and 6" GP100 , I would be of the opinion that .357 mag in something as light as a PD would be relatively unmanageable. Of course, 38 spec can always be put in any .357.

Weight is 15 oz. loaded, nearly exactly 1/2 of my G27 [my normal carry] in the same condition, and a full speed loader is only another 3.2 oz.

For a pocket pistol, nothing beats the DAO, hammerless, scandium/titanium combination IMHO. They ain't cheap.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 8:32:04 AM EST
Keltec-.32 cal. My philosophy is a sharp stick beats a blank, that .22 in your hand beats that S&W 500 you left at home! I own a .38 Airweight J frame and a Keltec-.32, the Keltec-.32 goes for more than the .38 J frame.
Tom
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 9:03:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By target17:
Keltec-.32 cal. My philosophy is a sharp stick beats a blank, that .22 in your hand beats that S&W 500 you left at home! I own a .38 Airweight J frame and a Keltec-.32, the Keltec-.32 goes for more than the .38 J frame.
Tom


my vote is for a .357 airweight S&W. at that range you will be able to handle the generous recoil and mussel flip but you will actually be delivering some lethal rounds into the target.

I think that other guy was right when he said that the .25 ACP has similar ballistics to my fist. At that range, all it offers is meager penetration. I cant get my fist into your brain or central nervous system, but the .25 MIGHT make it.... If the bad buy doesnt pummel you to death first... i front of your wife, while you are shooting him....

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 9:33:11 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By hkusp9:
height=8
Originally Posted By target17:
Keltec-.32 cal. My philosophy is a sharp stick beats a blank, that .22 in your hand beats that S&W 500 you left at home! I own a .38 Airweight J frame and a Keltec-.32, the Keltec-.32 goes for more than the .38 J frame.
Tom


my vote is for a .357 airweight S&W. at that range you will be able to handle the generous recoil and mussel flip but you will actually be delivering some lethal rounds into the target.

I think that other guy was right when he said that the .25 ACP has similar ballistics to my fist. At that range, all it offers is meager penetration. I cant get my fist into your brain or central nervous system, but the .25 MIGHT make it.... If the bad buy doesnt pummel you to death first... i front of your wife, while you are shooting him....



Yes Sir, I agree, on the .357, but that one was not on his list!
Tom
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 9:44:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1carlson:
I know that some of you will disagree with the premise of this post, but I am looking for a carry gun and have decided I will try the tiny is mighty theory. I am looking for a gun that I can carry in my pocket or in a very small holster so that I will be more likely to carry it.
Candidates include:
Seecamp .32
Keltec .32
Taurus PT .22 (not sure how I feel about relying on rimfire if I NEED the bullet to work every time)
Berretta 21 in .25
.................


Stay away from the .25. Although it is better than nothing, it is only slightly better than nothing. As far as the others, it is pretty much a toss-up. The Seecamp will probably cost you a good bit more.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 10:29:05 AM EST
I usually carry a taurus 85 (38 spl. rip off of a S&W J frame). And I am just as accurate with it as I am any of my other handguns at ranges less than 15-20 yards. I'm confident I could get a body shot within a few inches of where I wanted it at 10-15 feet (under pressure).

Random information: I'm posting in and lurking around the TX forum because I'm accepting a job that will make me part ofthe TX hometown after I graduate in may.

jdm
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 11:02:45 AM EST
I carry a Beretta Tomcat stainless in 32. I'd rather have a 9mm or 45, but I found that I actually carry this gun. It is accurate for what it is and has been reliable so far. It is just a hair bigger than the Beretta 25, but cost about a third more. I would consider one if I were you.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 11:04:34 AM EST

For pocket carry it's hard to beat a lightweight S&W J frame 38 Spl. No reason in the world to consider the same gun in a 357 IMO as it's pretty near impossible to control. And the J frame can be a very accurate gun at longer distances than most people would believe, if the user knows how to handle it.

For really deep concealment, a 32 Seecamp is the only gun I'm aware of that I would trust, and I would be very leery of opening up on someone with it if they weren't within 25 feet or so, even if they were shooting at me. The Seecamp will hit the K zone every time at 25 yards or even more but, again, you have to be able to make it do that. Most people can't, or won't practice enough to develop that skill.

Something to think about is one's ability to hit your target with a small gun. If I'm not confident that I can hit what I think I'm likely to be shooting at with what I plan to carry, I'll carry something else.

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:52:54 PM EST
So ballistics of a .25 are significantly inferior to a .22 lr?
I would not have guessed that. If nothing else, that is good information.
You may have noticed, or not, that I did nolt list any wheel guns. I find that small wheel guns are difficult for me to shoot well. The length of the chamber etc and the tiny grips make them unwieldy for me. I also listed only single stack autos b/c I would like something slimmer, which the revolvers are not. I understadn that they are certainly simple and effective, just not right for me.
So Keltec gets mostly positive reviews,
Seecamp, other than costing more nobody has any thoughts on.
What about the Tuarus or Berretta in .22lr? I could get hotter .22 rounds (not shoot "golden bullet" at bad guys)...
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:11:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2007 1:15:11 PM EST by Justin-Kase]

Originally Posted By 1carlson:
So ballistics of a .25 are significantly inferior to a .22 lr?
I would not have guessed that. If nothing else, that is good information.
You may have noticed, or not, that I did nolt list any wheel guns. I find that small wheel guns are difficult for me to shoot well. The length of the chamber etc and the tiny grips make them unwieldy for me. I also listed only single stack autos b/c I would like something slimmer, which the revolvers are not. I understadn that they are certainly simple and effective, just not right for me.
So Keltec gets mostly positive reviews,
Seecamp, other than costing more nobody has any thoughts on.
What about the Tuarus or Berretta in .22lr? I could get hotter .22 rounds (not shoot "golden bullet" at bad guys)...


The ballistics of the .22 and .25 are very similar. The .22 is much cheaper to shoot and the .25 is considered more reliable due to being centerfire. Either way you still have a mouse gun.

Have you looked at the Kahr PM9 or PM40? If you don't want a revolver it is the best choice for a pocket gun.
I own or have owned and shot most of them from the tiny Berretta .22 auto, the Baby Browning, Seecamp and Kel-Tec .32, to the Colt Mustang .380 and many others, and I highly recommend the Kahr PM9.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 3:21:47 PM EST
I have looked at the Kahrs, but perhaps not the model you are talking about. Is this gun a bit larger than a PPK in size? I would call a Bersa or PPK the max dimension to really call a "pocket gun" and they are really pushing it, or I would just get a PPK. Your pockets may vary, but if there is a smaller Kahr, I should look at it. The press on the Kahrs has been very complimentary and I have looked at a few, but don't have room for another pistol in the safe.
That is why I need one that can fit in my pocket!
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 3:57:01 PM EST
I don't think much of any of your choices.

I would get either a small .38 revolver (like the S&W J frame as someone else suggested) or a Kel Tec P3AT (as was also suggested).

I carry a S&W 908. It's compact, light and 9mm.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 4:35:45 PM EST
My Seecamp goes everywhere with me all the time! Even when I carry something else.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 5:27:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1carlson:
I have looked at the Kahrs, but perhaps not the model you are talking about. Is this gun a bit larger than a PPK in size? I would call a Bersa or PPK the max dimension to really call a "pocket gun" and they are really pushing it, or I would just get a PPK. Your pockets may vary, but if there is a smaller Kahr, I should look at it. The press on the Kahrs has been very complimentary and I have looked at a few, but don't have room for another pistol in the safe.
That is why I need one that can fit in my pocket!


Actually it is a bit smaller and lighter than the PPK.

The PM9 fits and conceals fine in my front pocket. I use a Desantis pocket holster similar to the picture below. If you're in the north Texas/DFW area (or willing to travel) I'd be willing to let you shoot mine at the next AR15.com/Tom Bean get together.



PM9 PPK
Barrel 3.0" 3.3"
Length O/A 5.3" 6.1"
Height 4.0" 4.3"
Width .90" .98"
Weight W/O mag 14oz 20.8oz
Capacity 6+1 9mm 6+1 .380 ACP

Dimensions from mfr websites:
http://www.kahr.com/pistols_9mm.html
http://www.waltheramerica.com/firearms/ppks.cfm
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 5:53:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By rogue007:
Kel-Tec PT-3AT..............................hands down, for the smallest carry but largest caliber in that size.

Best pocket gun I ever shot.....


this is a good gun. i have one and i take it everywhere i can. unlike a 38 wheel gun it is totally concealable. it's also small and flat and will not get in the way or make a bulge. you can hide it in the palm of your hand and it has 38 special speed. accuracy is acceptable with practice. i qualified CHL with it. 20 yd hits can be expected 100% of the time.

you don't know how big a j-frame is until you slip a P3AT in your pocket.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 7:29:34 PM EST
I have a Bersa .380 that is a decent small caliber carry gun, but I still prefer to carry my SIG 226, it's not that hard to conceal a full size duty gun really.
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 8:00:34 PM EST
HK SP-89.
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 11:56:37 AM EST
I carry my Kel-Tec P32 when i'm wearing clothes that wont let me carry anything else. It's a damn good pistol, mine has been 100 % reliable. I carry it with Speer gold dot's and 2 spare mags.
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 12:00:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1carlson:
I know that some of you will disagree with the premise of this post, but I am looking for a carry gun and have decided I will try the tiny is mighty theory. I am looking for a gun that I can carry in my pocket or in a very small holster so that I will be more likely to carry it.
Candidates include:
Seecamp .32
Keltec .32
Taurus PT .22 (not sure how I feel about relying on rimfire if I NEED the bullet to work every time)
Berretta 21 in .25
Anybody have any thoughts on these weapons? I know that they would be mostly useless in a tactical shootout, but I am beginning to feel more and more that if some idiot is walking around a public place plugging innocents while they are cowering on the ground, that is not the way that I want my wife or I to go. I have a full size and a compact frame 9mm, and I like them. If I thought I was going someplace where a shoot-out would ensue, I would not go, but if I had to, I would take the FAL. So what is the best handgun is not my question. I want to know, what is the best pistol that has at least 5 shots and will fit in my pocket. I also would like to have a chance of hitting something 8-10 feet away at least (outside of knife/bat/club range)
I also might carry it while running/riding my bike so durable and light is good.
I will not display it to all of my friends, it is none of their business that I am carrying, so looks are not important.
I f you find that you need a gun you will need it badly, personally i would not trust my life or that of my family to a mouse gun.
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 12:29:37 PM EST
My HKP7 hides pretty well. Only 8 rounds, but an extra mag is small enough to fit just about anywhere.
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 4:16:23 PM EST
I carry my Karh PM9 9mm in a Hedley pocket holster all the time. Works great when an inside the waistband just won't work during the summer.
Link Posted: 2/28/2007 2:15:18 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Justin-Kase:

Actually it is a bit smaller and lighter than the PPK.

The PM9 fits and conceals fine in my front pocket. I use a Desantis pocket holster similar to the picture below. If you're in the north Texas/DFW area (or willing to travel) I'd be willing to let you shoot mine at the next AR15.com/Tom Bean get together.


After the rec here I have been looking at Kahr PM9s. They appear to be light, small and powerful, Only concern is that there seem to be possible issues with consistency. A fair number of people have had some pretty significiant bad luck with them. I would love to have the chance to shoot one. It is near the head of the pack currently.
I also have found that Kel-Tec has a newer model the PF-9
http://www.kel-tec.com/pf9.html
Looks like a cheaper alternative to Kahr. Skinnier and a bit longer carries an extra shot.
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Calibers: 9mm Luger (9x19mm)
Weight unloaded (no magazine) : 12.7 oz. (360g)
Loaded magazine : 2.8 oz. (81g)
Length : 5.85" (149mm)
Height : 4.3" (109mm)
Width : .88" (22mm)
Barrel Length : 3.1" (80mm)
Capacity : 7 + 1 rounds
Link Posted: 2/28/2007 2:20:38 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Rifleman55:
I f you find that you need a gun you will need it badly, personally i would not trust my life or that of my family to a mouse gun.

The philopshy of the mouse gun is that if you need a gun, you need it in your hand, not in the car or the safe. Carry the most gun that you will carry all of the time. For me that may be a mouse gun. Any caliber is deadly provided shot placement is good. I think I would prefer not to be shot in the face with a .25 auto. If it was a choice of a leg shot with a 9mm and face with a .22lr...
I am not a bad shot and will not be hunting with the gun. It will be for personal protection. Though a .25 may only deliver the force of a punch, it is a punch I can deliver from 10 ft when the criminal is not expecting it. It may be all I need to save my life and the lives of others.
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