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Posted: 8/18/2017 5:51:46 AM EST
Took my ccw class  and the instructor who is a police officer was telling us never talk to the police if God forbid you use your weapon without council no matter what the circumstances are and after the class had a guy from US Law Shield who I'm sure paid to be there try and sell his company to us. I was wondering IF and who you guys recommend when getting this type of policy .
PWS
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 6:20:03 AM EST
[#1]
No.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 7:28:46 AM EST
[#2]
I'm an experienced LEO... I value my freedom and I value my rights. With that said, the cop gave you bad advice IMO because there is nothing wrong with making a BRIEF statement to LE post-incident as not doing so will most likely aggravate the situation... right or wrong as it may be. If you believe you did what you had to do... then briefly articulate that. After a brief initial statement, nothing wrong with wanting a lawyer before more in-depth discussion or clarification.

LEO's, as well as every other aspect of the CJ system, are trained and/or understand initial at-scene statements are most often made while actors are still under the influences of the incident. It's no secret. We receive redundant training on the issue, especially concerning how to handle an Officer Involved Shooting as a supervisor.

This does not mean you need to go free-flow at the mouth, but a VERY BRIEF statement of what happened will go a long way unless you KNOW you fucked up... in that case... choose wisely.

Bottom line IMO... they sell this insurance based off the fear of the unknown... which is the basis of all insurance.

Read, study, and understand the law. Practice conflict avoidance and avoid high-risk activities and areas that attract the criminal element. Use common sense and practice situational awareness. These things will go a long way in helping you avoid a situation... but there are no guarantees.

I know my opinion will be scoffed at... so stand by...

ETA- look at it this way... I'd rather my FIRST communication with LE be on record as "I feared for my life because _______ and because of that I _______" vs. "I have nothing to say, I want a lawyer". YMMV. Perception is reality to many folks.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 8:45:54 AM EST
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm an experienced LEO... I value my freedom and I value my rights. With that said, the cop gave you bad advice IMO because there is nothing wrong with making a BRIEF statement to LE post-incident as not doing so will most likely aggravate the situation... right or wrong as it may be. If you believe you did what you had to do... then briefly articulate that. After a brief initial statement, nothing wrong with wanting a lawyer before more in-depth discussion or clarification.

LEO's, as well as every other aspect of the CJ system, are trained and/or understand initial at-scene statements are most often made while actors are still under the influences of the incident. It's no secret. We receive redundant training on the issue, especially concerning how to handle an Officer Involved Shooting as a supervisor.

This does not mean you need to go free-flow at the mouth, but a VERY BRIEF statement of what happened will go a long way unless you KNOW you fucked up... in that case... choose wisely.

Bottom line IMO... they sell this insurance based off the fear of the unknown... which is the basis of all insurance.

Read, study, and understand the law. Practice conflict avoidance and avoid high-risk activities and areas that attract the criminal element. Use common sense and practice situational awareness. These things will go a long way in helping you avoid a situation... but there are no guarantees.

I know my opinion will be scoffed at... so stand by...

ETA- look at it this way... I'd rather my FIRST communication with LE be on record as "I feared for my life because _______ and because of that I _______" vs. "I have nothing to say, I want a lawyer". YMMV. Perception is reality to many folks.
View Quote
Actually, I agree.

"This man attacked me."

" I was in fear for my life,  so I shot in self defense and I want to press charges".

"I'd like to cooperate in the investigation but I'll need to speak with my attorney and have him present before commenting further"

~SHUT MOUTH NOW~
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 10:05:17 AM EST
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Actually, I agree.

"This man attacked me."

" I was in fear for my life,  so I shot in self defense and I want to press charges".

"I'd like to cooperate in the investigation but I'll need to speak with my attorney and have him present before commenting further"

~SHUT MOUTH NOW~
View Quote
Excellent example.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 11:59:47 AM EST
[#5]
Actually watch this video  Never talk to a cop
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 12:42:35 PM EST
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Actually watch listen to this video  Never talk to a cop
View Quote
Fixed it...

Actually LISTEN to what he says... it's typical lawyer speak making apparently "good points" but only if you're ignorant to the law and how investigations and trials go... some of his examples even refer to CRIMINALS talking to police, if I were a CRIMINAL I'd not talk to police either, but that's not the point of the OP's post... so believe and do what you want.

ETA- the video is akin to a mechanic telling you NOT to buy a repair manual... I'd expect a lawyer to sell folks on the idea of hiring a lawyer... Even during reason #1 there is a big lie because EVERY cop sooner or later catches someone doing something, albeit minor mostly, and does not arrest the person... discretion is used all the time. The only time I'd agree 100% to not open your mouth would be if you ARE arrested or you are unsure to ANY degree if your actions were questionable.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 1:46:58 PM EST
[#7]
The second half of this video is an officer who says everything he says is true
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 2:57:10 PM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The second half of this video is an officer who says everything he says is true
View Quote
Probably is if you're a criminal under arrest or a criminal suspect caught in the act of a crime... (has nothing to do with the OP's question or issue) like I said, in the first part, he asks a supposed LEO has he ever had a suspect talk to him that did not go to jail and the supposed cop says no... making it sound like (another lawyer trick) EVERYONE who engaged in conversation went to jail whereas those who STFU went free... that's complete BS unless you're a cop with two days on the job. EVERY cop, sooner or later encounters criminal behavior where a warning is given and no arrest is made... that is an undisputed fact my friend... directly counter to what the supposed cop says. Lawyer keeps referring to "DURING TRAIL", etc. What I'm saying is the UNMOTIVATED truth of the matter.

Very little if ANY addresses the OP's question/issue... IMO. The issue was a cop told the OP to never speak to the police if involved in an incident involving your weapon (obviously for the purpose of injecting fear and doubt due to being perceived as an authority figure) and then whether or not insurance is recommended (to deal with fear and protection of the unknown).

You're not suspect of ANYTHING in a self-defense incident until a proper investigation is completed and the facts determined and validated. When we show up we have no idea of the who, what, where, and why for the most part. Initially, you're just an actor until facts and circumstances dictate otherwise. The LEO who gave the bad advice (IMO) and the lawyer's video are better suited for those who know or reasonably know they are in hot water (hence the constant reference to trial and prosecution/defense)... not John Q. Citizen who defended himself in an armed robbery attempt or home invasion... they want you to feel like the former, not the latter because it sells.

Makes no difference to me if people talk or don't talk... I'm just not a fan of cops and lawyers (and there are plenty of them out there) making it sound like you're automatically a suspect from the beginning and should have a lawyer and an insurance policy BEFORE you BREIFLY answer LIMITED INITIAL questions as to what happened and why you did what you did.

If you can't see through this (the sales aspect), and want to buy insurance and stand mute from the beginning... more power to you... I'm just saying if you do the things I suggested, it won't be necessary.

If you know you F'ed up after the fact, yep, be quiet and ask for a lawyer. But if you believe you were justified... by God say so and why! Go on record early with LIMITED information. Now, for those who don't think they understand the law, are hot-heads, lack self-confidence, or can't self-regulate, then yes, you might want insurance so you protect yourself from yourself.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 5:22:15 PM EST
[#9]
I got to get my three sleep cycles first.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 10:11:07 PM EST
[#10]
I was thinking about getting it just for the civil liability coverage, I fear a civil trial much more than a criminal trial.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:28:20 PM EST
[#11]
Do I think its a good idea to have legal insurance incase of an issue YES. In fact I have US law Shield and I recommend it, as do all 8 instructors that work for our company. If you do your research (and we did a lot of research) you will find US Law Shield is the best out there at what they do, with local deadly force attorney's that you can just pick up the phone and talk too at no extra charge. Do I agree with high pressure or scare tactics to sell ANYTHING during a class ...no, students are there to learn not to be sold to.  

As far as what to say to the police after you shot someone... I would not be basing my potential arrest and liberty on the thoughts and comments from a bunch of people from the internet, but that's just me.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:26:50 AM EST
[#12]
If you shoot someone make sure your standing on your gun when the police get there. Do not talk about yourself or what you did. So, "he attacked me" is about all you should say. Give the police your name if they ask. Other than that shut up.

When a cop shoots someone they don't say anything except to ask for their union rep. Follow their lead.

Keep in mind that your life will probably be ruined either way so don't shoot unless you have to to live.

As far as the insurance, I think it's a waste of money.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 12:20:17 PM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you shoot someone make sure your standing on your gun when the police get there. Do not talk about yourself or what you did. So, "he attacked me" is about all you should say. Give the police your name if they ask. Other than that shut up.

When a cop shoots someone they don't say anything except to ask for their union rep. Follow their lead.

Keep in mind that your life will probably be ruined either way so don't shoot unless you have to to live.

As far as the insurance, I think it's a waste of money.
View Quote
I don't know where you got your "when cops shoot someone" information but in the several incidents I've been CONNECTED to, as I've never personally been in an OIS, the officer involved most certainly DOES NOT remain quite while requesting a union rep... maybe in some places that's status quo, but not in the several agencies I've worked in involving three states. Again, BRIEF statement to cover the basics then seek a lawyer if you feel it necessary.

Most individuals who use force in defense of self and others, including using a firearm, fair just fine... your comment about having your life probably being ruined either way is complete BS. Many incidents never make the news... only the "when assholes collide" incidents make the news it seems. More often than not cases are fairly clear.

Insurance... that's a personal decision.

Let me reiterate my position... I hear people who faced a potential use of force issue almost universally state they were concerned and worried about the consequences of using force... basically because people like the cop the OP referred to, and others in the profession, SCARE THE FUCK out of people making most think they are fucked either way when defending themselves... simply not true... but it sells policies and classes.

Know the law, practice conflict avoidance, avoid high-risk areas and activities, use some common sense, all of this will pay BIG DIVIDENDS in never being involved in a situation. But for God's sake don't make decisions based on the fear of what might or might not happen to you if you use force (firearm or otherwise) because if you do so you will loose the tactical advantage and your thinking will be clouded. Staying alive is not that hard... I guess some might say I have too laid back of an opinion on the topic... my response is I see this shit play out in real life so I feel I have a solid foundation from which to speak.
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 5:44:44 AM EST
[#14]
other than telling your name and address,  anything you tell the police can, and probably will, be used against you in a Court of Law.  The most I'd admit to is that I was attacked, and was in fear for my life.  Nothing else without Counsel present.
The police are not your friend.  They are doing a job that has to be done, but protecting you is not that high on their list.  Being a motor mouth will get you screwed.
Defending yourself, even for a righteous shooting,  will cost you.  Many thousands of dollars if you are innocent or acted in lawful self defense.  Many times that if the State charges you with manslaughter or murder.  Insurance is what it is.  Protection against the possibly remote chance of needing it.
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