theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060329/OPINION02/60329017/1005

Near the bottom of the page:

Springtime at the Capitol Forest:

At the Triangle pit, a de facto, non-complying, DNR certified shooting range, (illegal under current county zoning laws) witness the squads of zombie-like shooters, emptying magazines, round after round, aiming at the junk and garbage strewn about. Know that every shot reduces the quality of life out here by a degree. It is cumulative; the lead blown into the air and dissolved into the groundwater is adding up. There are and will be continuing negative environmental consequences of lead in the environment.

DNR and other state agencies prefer to ignore this problem, pandering instead to the monied courtiers in the Legislature: the gun and “outdoor enthusiast” lobbies. Imagine if you will, Eli Sterling and his procession setting up shop on weekends near the Mima Mounds lighting off explosives and splashing lead-based paint around in honor of the species. Of course, they would be summarily arrested, shut down and forced to clean up their mess. Not out here at the Triangle Ranch. After all, freedom isn’t free.

See, too, our motorized outdoor enthusiasts as they settle their families onto 4x4 ORVs and roar through the forest, pleased with themselves and the freedom somebody told them they have. Perhaps if they climbed off those machines and walked those trails, a moment of clarity would occur: Spreading garbage, pollution, noise and erosion is not all that much fun.

Marshall L. Oatman, Olympia

I hate the bad immage we (shooters) get from the dumb asses that just dump shit and leave it in the woods...

Quoted: Pure horseshit! Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't lead come from the ground? (Same type of bullshit about caffeine being so bad for you.... ever hear of anyone in the hospital dieing from too much coffee? ) We're humans, and just like any other species, we consume, we manipulate our surroundings, we die. BFD. (my cat dug a hole and buried a turd yesterday... call the EPA!) Quads are just a kick in the ass, and so is mother nature... get both! Forget the petroleum based asphalt, and the concrete covered shores in coastal cities..... gee, I wonder if there's any environmental impacts from millions of people living on top of one another, while mentally masturbating over cappuccinos, about how country folk are ignorant....fucking hypocrites! I hope they choke on their tofu, or get hit by a mass transit vehicle..... I swear I'll murder a tree in their honor by the end of the day!

If we were gay, I'd marry you.

 Dr. Brown, who moderates the wa-ccw list posted:
--------------
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:09:50 -0800
From: "Keith Brown" <Keithbrown51@...>
Subject: Letter writers needed

Gang   We could use some letters of retort to this editorial.  I called the
Thurston County Sheriff's Office and there is no County zoning restrictions
here!

http://theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060329/OPINION02/60329017/10\
05

bksnip
-----------
 And I couldn't agree more.  Which is why I replied:
-----------
Wow, talk about bitter diatribe.
I've seen pictures of crews of shooters cleaning and raking up this area,
posted on AR15.com. I don't know how you'd get a picture published with an LTE
but I bet the picture takers would be happy to donate and it makes a great
point. I'll fwd this message over there. -Boyd Kneeland
----------------
 Any of you still have those pictures? This is a perfect opportunity to get our side of this out.

Quoted:  Dr. Brown, who moderates the wa-ccw list posted: -------------- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:09:50 -0800 From: "Keith Brown" <Keithbrown51@...> Subject: Letter writers needed Gang   We could use some letters of retort to this editorial.  I called the Thurston County Sheriff's Office and there is no County zoning restrictions here! http://theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060329/OPINION02/60329017/10\ 05 bksnip -----------  And I couldn't agree more.  Which is why I replied: ----------- Wow, talk about bitter diatribe. I've seen pictures of crews of shooters cleaning and raking up this area, posted on AR15.com. I don't know how you'd get a picture published with an LTE but I bet the picture takers would be happy to donate and it makes a great point. I'll fwd this message over there. -Boyd Kneeland ----------------  Any of you still have those pictures? This is a perfect opportunity to get our side of this out.

I don't remember any pics of capitol forest getting cleaned up.....but I bet we could go out and take some.....

Well in  Snohomish County...

The County says you may be in a shooting area, but the DNR guy says no...

The pic's you see of cleaning are in places like Cedar ponds, Sultan Basin, and Granite Falls...

All but one now closed to shooting, the only one that is open is private property, and we do a half assed job at cleaning that one at best...It is just a matter of time.

Sounds like you have yourself  your very own Friends of the Trails battle about to start...

You will lose!, DNR is now posting No shooting signs in legal shooting areas, and they are calling the cops without even talking with you now. ( I see this several times a month now in my job).

DNR is not your friend, Dept of Fish and Game are not your friends, and most of the deputy's have no clue if it is legal or not so they do as they are told by the Game agents, and the DNR folks...

You folks had better get on this RIGHT THE HECK NOW! or you are going to be wondering why you never even got a chance to fight it...Get out there and clean it up before Friends of the Trail do, they came out our way with the media and left HUGE piles of trash that the raked up, put huge signs on it about how bad shooters were, posted them all over town and at the local gun/sporting good shops ,and then never picked the piles up...

Funny thing is, the piles were most trash from households, Canopy's, Water heaters, computer monitors and Lots and lots of shotgun hulls....( so there is proof that shooters are involved with every little rainbow pile of hulls).

But since Shooters used this stuff as targets, guess who got the blame?...

In our area now Sultan Basin road and Cedar ponds are going unchecked and the illegal dumping is two to three times worse ....I know that I no longer do my bi-monthly clean up and dump run...I figure I was saving the state a few bucks, and keeping my shooting area clean, I did this for years, and most times out of my own pocket...

Forget em, the king can have his forest, and the tree hugging freaks of the trail can have the trash all for themselves. I will shoot when I want, I will just make sure it is not worth it for anyone to try and find me.

Wow..

I didn't realize the problem was so bad up there...

Place I go to must not be well known, at least by garbage dumpers. Theres a lot of crap that people shoot, but definatly not household garbage

Part of the reason it never gets to bad I think is that its far back.. I do see garbage along the side of the road occasionally, but people are lazy and don't want to drive 3-4 miles up a bumpy gravel road. Honor camp guys normally keep the garbage(and the brush) pretty well cleaned up..

Shooting area(its not really a pit) is relatively clean. Some pop cans and paper trash from lazy people, but not to bad. Now, the ammount of brass and shotgun hulls is pretty horrible though..  would take a few hours to make it so you could see gravel again...

Quoted: Place I go to must not be well known, at least by garbage dumpers. Theres a lot of crap that people shoot, but definatly not household garbage

If God did not put it there it does not belong!

If you are going to be the only one with a half of a brain cell, so be it! pick it up and take it out. There is nothing wrong with being a better steward of the land than those around you, or in your circle.

Quoted: Quoted: Pure horseshit! If we were gay, I'd marry you.

Hey, if you two want a honeymoon now I say gay...errrr go for it.  

I think the guy that wrote that is the guy that is always complaining about shooting out there. I'm pretty sure he is the same guy that called the sheriifs dept on me when I was out there bump firing. He called and reported "someone dumping 30 round clips out of a machine gun". Deputy came by and checked it out.....he got a kick out of watching me bump fire, but turned down my offer to try it himself

Quoted: Place I go to must not be well known, at least by garbage dumpers. Theres a lot of crap that people shoot, but definatly not household garbage Part of the reason it never gets to bad I think is that its far back.. I do see garbage along the side of the road occasionally, but people are lazy and don't want to drive 3-4 miles up a bumpy gravel road. Honor camp guys normally keep the garbage(and the brush) pretty well cleaned up.. Shooting area(its not really a pit) is relatively clean. Some pop cans and paper trash from lazy people, but not to bad. Now, the ammount of brass and shotgun hulls is pretty horrible though..  would take a few hours to make it so you could see gravel again...

We'll be working to clean that up, and a few other places, in the near future.  I've got an e-mail in to the DNR regional office in Castle Rock.  Waiting for a reply or contact person.

If you can get there to shoot, you should be able to pick up a little trash.  I try to get at least a grocery shopping bag out of the places I go when I'm there.  We own an apartment complex where we have a dumpster, so it's easy for me to get rid of larger trash. Little dents in the problem, but it matters to me.

Letter sent.

Quoted: Quoted: Place I go to must not be well known, at least by garbage dumpers. Theres a lot of crap that people shoot, but definatly not household garbage If God did not put it there it does not belong! If you are going to be the only one with a half of a brain cell, so be it! pick it up and take it out. There is nothing wrong with being a better steward of the land than those around you, or in your circle.

We are trying to start something down here

Unfortunatly all I have is a car, can only take out 2 or 3 bags at a time(Which we do). Need a truck to haul most of it..

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Place I go to must not be well known, at least by garbage dumpers. Theres a lot of crap that people shoot, but definatly not household garbage If God did not put it there it does not belong! If you are going to be the only one with a half of a brain cell, so be it! pick it up and take it out. There is nothing wrong with being a better steward of the land than those around you, or in your circle. We are trying to start something down here Unfortunatly all I have is a car, can only take out 2 or 3 bags at a time(Which we do). Need a truck to haul most of it..

If you are talking about Cap Forest then I have a truck and can haul a couple loads to the dump......assuming I don't have to pay for all of it........

May be able to talk DNR into picking it all up if we got it all in trash bags and hauled to the gate. Might even be able to get them to unlock the gate for the day.......

Let me know where and when and I'm there.

I think this line bothers me the most!!

pleased with themselves and the freedom somebody told them they have. Marshall L. Oatman, Olympia

Quoted: I think this line bothers me the most!! pleased with themselves and the freedom somebody told them they have. Marshall L. Oatman, Olympia

Whiners bother me most. People go out to enjoy themselves and still others, who want everything for themselves, just can't stand it.

I love peace and quiet as much as anybody. I love to hear the birds sing, the rush of water in a stream, the sound of a breeze in the trees. I get up at 4am and enjoy the quiet moments before the world stumbles out of bed and the engines ruin the solitude.

The last thing I want is to run into a bunch of yakking hikers when I am out enjoying the outdoors. Better they should drive by in their 4X4 or ATV and keep going. I'm out there to get away from yakking people and their insatiable lust for mindless drivel, children being the exception. I love their observations.

Quoted: Well in  Snohomish County... The County says you may be in a shooting area, but the DNR guy says no... The pic's you see of cleaning are in places like Cedar ponds, Sultan Basin, and Granite Falls... All but one now closed to shooting, the only one that is open is private property, and we do a half assed job at cleaning that one at best...It is just a matter of time.have You will lose!, DNR is now posting No shooting signs in legal shooting areas, and they are calling the cops without even talking with you now. ( I see this several times a month now in my job). DNR is not your friend, Dept of Fish and Game are not your friends, and most of the deputy's have no clue if it is legal or not so they do as they are told by the Game agents, and the DNR folks... You folks had better get on this RIGHT THE HECK NOW! or you are going to be wondering why you never even got a chance to fight it...Get out there and clean it up before Friends of the Trail do, they came out our way with the media and left HUGE piles of trash that the raked up, put huge signs on it about how bad shooters were, posted them all over town and at the local gun/sporting good shops ,and then never picked the piles up... Funny thing is, the piles were most trash from households, Canopy's, Water heaters, computer monitors and Lots and lots of shotgun hulls....( so there is proof that shooters are involved with every little rainbow pile of hulls).hooters In our area now Sultan Basin road and Cedar ponds are going unchecked and the illegal dumping is two to three times worse ....I know that I no longer do my bi-monthly clean up and dump run...I figure I was saving the state a few bucks, and keeping my shooting area clean, I did this for years, and most times out of my own pocket... Forget em, the king can have his forest, and the tree hugging freaks of the trail can have the trash all for themselves. I will shoot when I want, I will just make sure it is not worth it for anyone to try and find me.hr

Um, so, I hate that it seems like every time I post here I end up pushin all y'alls "buttons" but don't tell me I'll "Lose".

Those people work for -ME- not the other way 'round, and their screwed up politicized chain of command might suffice for them to err from the publics desire briefly but not long term (we do still have the tools originally used to deal with tyranny). So, if you can find a way to keep people from finding you then more power to you. But if I want to take political action and urge others to as well then... i'm hoping you'll have the same sentiment for my plan that I have for yours. Sorrry things are messed up in Snohomish, maybe we can prevent that in Olympia. BK

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Place I go to must not be well known, at least by garbage dumpers. Theres a lot of crap that people shoot, but definatly not household garbage hr If God did not put it there it does not belong! If you are going to be the only one with a half of a brain cell, so be it! pick it up and take it out. There is nothing wrong with being a better steward of the land than those around you, or in your circle.hr We are trying to start something down here have If you are talking about Cap Forest then I have a truck and can haul a couple loads to the dump......assuming I don't have to pay for all of it........ May be able to talk DNR into picking it all up if we got it all in trash bags and hauled to the gate. Might even be able to get them to unlock the gate for the day....... Let me know where and when and I'm there.

Um, at the risk of disagreeing with the board twice in one day : ) You (judging by your avatar) have a scout. Better then a car, beefier then what passes for a modern "truck"... not the same deal at all imo. There, now -everybodies- pissed off at me : )

Boyd (wishing the top were of the SII and I was out of the mercedes)

Quoted: Um, at the risk of disagreeing with the board twice in one day : ) You (judging by your avatar) have a scout. Better then a car, beefier then what passes for a modern "truck"... not the same deal at all imo. There, now -everybodies- pissed off at me : ) Boyd (wishing the top were of the SII and I was out of the mercedes)

I have a Ford Ranger that is my daily driver while the Scout is in the garage getting converted from rust machine into a chick magnet


I've actually got 6 Scouts.......but whose counting
Only 1 here in Wa though

I got a truck, I can take a load.  Lets get that gate opened