In the last two week there has been two incidents where students have been robbed. A guy approached both subjects and demanded money. Since guns and such are a no no on campus what is the best form of self protection? Both of these robberies have taken place after 11pm but it's not uncommon for me to be leaving the gym after 11pm and head back to my apartment. The robbery that occured last night happened on the block my apartment is on.

Best idea, would be not to walk alone, if you are out later at night.  Try to find a fellow student that lives in the same area.  Safety in numbers.

Also check this out Kimber Life Act  

I would shy away form a carrying and edged weapon for self-defense unless you take an edged weapon defense course.

OC Spray maybe?

I'd keep OC, a tac-light so you could blind the guy and run, maybe a knife I'm not sure what their policy is on that in NY and/or your school though.  And always have your cellphone on you.  Of course, if the badguy has a gun because he doesn't care about the "gun free zone" you're pretty much boned.  But that's the price you gotta pay for being an "enlightened" society that values false sense of safety over human life, dignity and property.

I don't know about NY, either, but in NJ you have a duty to retreat if at all possible, otherwise you're criminally-liable for any action taken against an assailant.  So if you were outdoors in NJ, and stood your ground and fought, rather than giving the assailant what they wanted, you'd probably be charged with assault for not handing over your money then turning tail and running.

I work on a college campus and I have one of these in the trunk of my car.



Some folks call it a kaiser blade, but I call it a sling blade.MMmmmmmhum.

is pepper spray ok in ny? I won't get treated like a criminal for that?

Rich,

You need to get keyed in with Fry this weekend. Carbines are great fun, but practical self-defense should be everyones focus. Fry offers a mix of unarmed and armed options, and he also offers a tremendous body of material called "managing unknown contacts."

I can't carry at work, but I always have a number of other options such edged weapons and a Surefire for lowlight walks handy. The most important weapon is your brain. Keep your eyes up, open and moving. Leave the cell phone and Ipod OFF.

Is Fry holding any courses like that locally anytime soon?

I have no idea what his schedule is, other than "full."

I'll look into his courses, thanks for the info.

In 1994 I went Rutgers University In Newark NJ. I always brought my gun with me.  Hell I went to Class in my uniform.  I showed a female student my S&W 40 cal right in Accounting class.  NJ has a law that exempts LEOs.

Quoted: is pepper spray ok in ny? I won't get treated like a criminal for that?

www.selfdefenses.com/forcespray/newyork.html

www.oswego.edu/administration/police/misc_laws/SDSpray.html

University Police
Self Defense Sprays

Penal Law Sections 265.20 and 270.05 have been amended to permit persons over the age of 18 years, and who have not been convicted of a felony or a crime of assault, to purchase and possess a self-defense spray of a type authorized by regulations of the department of health.

The Department of Health has promulgated regulations which define what self-defense sprays may be legally possessed. These regulations authorize sprays containing oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient (pepper sprays). Any spray containing tear-gas remains illegal. Self-defense sprays are further limited by the Department of Health to a maximum net weight of three quarters ounce, and a maximum strength of 0.7 per cent by weight of total capsaicinoids. The canister must not be disguised in a manner so as appear to be something other than a self-defense spray.

It's a dirty little secret that colleges and universities are dangerous places. This is especially true for woman.

Schools, colleges underreport crime

SP10 is spot on. Get into a few of Fry's workshops. Also keep your head on a 380 degree swivel, being aware of your surroundings will go a long way in keeping you safe. Additionally think & look like a predator, not prey.

Quoted: Additionally think & look like a predator, not prey.

Like This:



Not This:

^ ^

Another one in todays inbox at work:

Security Alert for Sept. 26

On Tuesday, Sept. 25, at approximately 1:40 a.m, a student from Onondaga Community College was approached by an unknown male on the 1000 block of E. Adams Street.  The student reported that the male called out to the student as he approached.  Once close to the student, he demanded money, which the victim gave him.  The suspect then fled on a dark‑colored mountain bike he retrieved from the intersection of E. Adams Street and South Crouse Avenue.  He headed west on E. Adams Street.  The victim did not sustain any injuries nor was any weapon displayed.  The suspect is described as a black male in his 30s, 6‑foot‑2 with muscular build, weighing approximately 180 to 190 pounds.  He had freckles on his cheeks and was bald.  The suspect was last seen wearing a purple or pink shirt and blue jeans.  If anyone has information regarding this incident, please contact the Syracuse Police Department at 442‑5222.
 
For your safety:

• travel in well‑lighted areas
• walk in groups of three or more and keep away from bushes, cars and other objects a suspect could hide behind
• be alert, walking with headphones can create tunnel vision

Quoted: In 1994 I went Rutgers University In Newark NJ. I always brought my gun with me.  Hell I went to Class in my uniform.  I showed a female student my S&W 40 cal right in Accounting class.  NJ has a law that exempts LEOs.

laws like that give me the warm and fuzzies.

I guess it sucks to be a civilian these days.

For a flashlight I'd recommend the SureFire E2D Defender with the crenellated ends (Thanks, Chris). Also great for emergencies, get an extra lamp and battery carrier and throw it in the backpack or briefcase.

Blind'em (strobe'm w/60 lumens), whack'em , and get outta Dodge.

"He rushed me yer honor, I ducked and ran because I was afraid, and he fell down on the sidewalk."

http://www.americanheritagesports.com/Images/sfE2D.jpg

Frackin' parasites.

Quoted: www.americanheritagesports.com/Images/sfE2D.jpg Frackin' parasites.

How to hotlink:  Type before the address

                    after...

Hell, that didn't work so good as the code disappeared in the body.


You need [ ] with url in it BEFORE the body, and [/ ] also with url included AFTER the address.

Pictures? [ ] with img.

Its so simple even a computer idjut like myself learned how to do it.

Quoted: Another one in todays inbox at work: Security Alert for Sept. 26 On Tuesday, Sept. 25, at approximately 1:40 a.m, a student from Onondaga Community College was approached by an unknown male on the 1000 block of E. Adams Street.  The student reported that the male called out to the student as he approached.  Once close to the student, he demanded money, which the victim gave him.  The suspect then fled on a dark‑colored mountain bike he retrieved from the intersection of E. Adams Street and South Crouse Avenue.  He headed west on E. Adams Street.  The victim did not sustain any injuries nor was any weapon displayed.  The suspect is described as a black male in his 30s, 6‑foot‑2 with muscular build, weighing approximately 180 to 190 pounds.  He had freckles on his cheeks and was bald.  The suspect was last seen wearing a purple or pink shirt and blue jeans.  If anyone has information regarding this incident, please contact the Syracuse Police Department at 442‑5222.   For your safety: • travel in well‑lighted areas • walk in groups of three or more and keep away from bushes, cars and other objects a suspect could hide behind • be alert, walking with headphones can create tunnel vision

This is the 2nd robbery I was talking about, I'm on the 1000 block of East Adams.

Quoted: Then I bet he'll sue the person that stands up to him, and win.  And they'll get charged with something for not being a good little subject and submitting to the robber's demands.

Maybe in commie controlled New Jersey. The self-defense statutes in NY are actually quite good. This dirt bag will pick on the wrong person one day and end up with his bicycle wrapped around his head.

So TRUE Pyrodox.  Remember, "NO WEAPON WAS SEEN".  If you use a weapon, to hurt someone, and there was no concrete evidence that the assailant intended, nor had the ability to due great bodily harm, the courts will burn you.  I seen a surefire defender afew replys back,  be careful with such a device, as it WILL get you into trouble.

What readers forget in these  forums, is that the weapon(s) used to injure someone else will always be used as evidence in the courts.  This evidence, as seen by the jury will create an image to the jurers, either positive or negative, and such a weapon as this 'Surefire' that has only one purpose (to create severe damage), will be seen as a BIG negative, and will discredit you.  This is the same as some defensive knifes that  are being marketed today.

BE CAREFUL people,,

Ron, are you going to wait until some scumbag gets up to you and pulls a knife or a pipe on you before you escalate to his level? Are you willing to take that chance? You will find yourself FAR behind the 8 ball with that reactive mindset.

Some trainers paralyze their students with fear that if they actually defend themsleves, they are going to be at the mercy of the system. Is it a concern? Absolutely.

There are some excellent techniques to emply to hopefully prevent escalation and need for a weapon, but unless you have that training exposed to you, you won't be aware of it to the degree needed. A little aggressive preemption, especially including  verbal commands to STOP isn't a bad thing. If the person doesn't stop, and is continuing towards you in an agressive/unusual manner, then prepare for action if you must or simply run away if you can. Yes, NY has a retreat clause OUTSIDE of your premises. Love those politicians who approved these laws.

Maybe a review of the justifiable use of force, Article 35, is needed here. I'm betting most folks haven't seen this.

ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article35.htm

Look over S35.15 especially.  

Hi SP10,

Not at all,  If I feel the threat is real, and the ability and opportunity exsists for the perp to do me harm, that so be it,  However, alittle smarts, and 12 years with the courts have taught me alot as well.

A surefire, with ridges, designed for destruction, compared to, say, a surefire 6P, both will do the job, however, one won't look as minicing in court as the other.  Today, too may instructors tell their students to buy the latest and greatest, and simply ignore the basics, and, with this mind set, the student walks away with a false since of security.  

It's like a rape prevention class, that teaches the women to carry mace.  WOW, she walks away, feeling this incredible power of confidence, that, should she need it, that she has this can of woop-ass in her purse.  But,, how many instructors actually have her spray someone, if just a simple dummy, yet alone, how many instructors tell them that she has a 50/50 chance on the mace being used against her, or the back spray of the airisol comming back to her, or the mere fact, that mace is illegal and what she is actually carrying is a watered down product that is called pepper spray, and has a less than 10 percent chance on dropping someone.

All I'm saying, is nothing beats training, and the most important aspect of any self defense is AWARENESS.  A flashlight makes a fantastic weapon, but so does a heavy ink pen,Kuboton or just about anything you have in your hands or pocket.  But your brain is your best weapon.  Use it, and use it well.

Be Safe,,

Just do what I did, Become an LEO first, then go to college.  No one stopped from carrying on cmpus. EXMPT Period.

Quoted: Just do what I did, Become an LEO first, then go to college.  No one stopped from carrying on cmpus. EXMPT Period.

IMHO, I do not think so.  Most Universities are private and can set their own rules.  If they have one that forbids carrying, then you can't or you will be told to leave.

Interesting reading SP10.

A bit off topic; Is there no retreat requirement if inside a house / building?

S 35.20 Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises and
         in defense of a person in the course of burglary.
 //snip//
 3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to
be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that
another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such
dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other
person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or
terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary.

Quoted: Quoted: Just do what I did, Become an LEO first, then go to college.  No one stopped from carrying on cmpus. EXMPT Period. IMHO, I do not think so.  Most Universities are private and can set their own rules.  If they have one that forbids carrying, then you can't or you will be told to leave.

+1. Unless you are there on "official business" they may also require you to get written permission when attending on-site training  classes.

Quoted: Interesting reading SP10. A bit off topic; Is there no retreat requirement if inside a house / building?

You need to talk to your personal attorney for a complete understanding of the use of DPF in NYS.

SPD has a pretty good guide on the use of force in NYS.

http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/police/forms/pistolhandbook.pdf

S 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.

 1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use
physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably
believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from
what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful
physical force by such other person, unless:
 (a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent
to cause physical injury to another person; or
 (b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his
use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn
from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such
other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the
use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or
 (c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by
agreement not specifically authorized by law.

2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
 (a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to
use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not
use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety
as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating;
except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is:
 (i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
 (ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to
section 35.30; or
 (b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or
attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or
robbery; or
 (c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or
attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the
use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
section 35.20.

My girlfriend isn't great neighborhood for school and because her school is split up among main street.  I dont like the thought of her walking around there.  I was talking to her about it the other day.  I was thinking about getting her a Spyder-Co self defense knife like my brother got, but I was looking at the Kimber Guardian Angel.  I think that would be great.  It is only $43 however Kimber will not ship to NY.  Any other options?

Quoted: Interesting reading SP10. A bit off topic; Is there no retreat requirement if inside a house / building?

2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to
use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not
use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety
as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating;
except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is:
(i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or

Note that I am NOT an attorney (thank God), NOR did I sleep in a Holiday Inn last night

Quoted: My girlfriend isn't great neighborhood for school and because her school is split up among main street.  I dont like the thought of her walking around there.  I was talking to her about it the other day.  I was thinking about getting her a Spyder-Co self defense knife like my brother got, but I was looking at the Kimber Guardian Angel.  I think that would be great.  It is only $43 however Kimber will not ship to NY.  Any other options?

Know anyone in PA?

Quoted: My girlfriend isn't great neighborhood for school and because her school is split up among main street.  I dont like the thought of her walking around there.  I was talking to her about it the other day.  I was thinking about getting her a Spyder-Co self defense knife like my brother got, but I was looking at the Kimber Guardian Angel.  I think that would be great.  It is only $43 however Kimber will not ship to NY.  Any other options?

Fry teaches a self-defense curriculum geared towards women. He has a lady instructor for teaching this, or he does it himself. We had a woman's self-defense workshop running indoors concurrent with an outdoor firearms class last May. Only 4-5 ladies took the class.

Know anyone in PA?

I live an hour from Erie, PA

Fry teaches a self-defense curriculum geared towards women. He has a lady instructor for teaching this, or he does it himself. We had a woman's self-defense workshop running indoors concurrent with an outdoor firearms class last May. Only 4-5 ladies took the class.

My girlfriend said she took a self defense course a little while ago.  It was before I met her so I'm not sure about the detail

Quoted: My girlfriend isn't great neighborhood for school and because her school is split up among main street.  I dont like the thought of her walking around there.  I was talking to her about it the other day.  I was thinking about getting her a Spyder-Co self defense knife like my brother got, but I was looking at the Kimber Guardian Angel.  I think that would be great.  It is only $43 however Kimber will not ship to NY.  Any other options?

Is she mentally prepared to instantly react and take someones life in a pretty brutal manner? Is she prepared to learn and practice the required skills to effectively defend herself with a knife? Unless she can answer yes to those two questions she is probably better off with a self-dense spray and some basic unarmed self defense tactics. The last thing you want is to arm an attacker with your own weapon.

Quoted: Quoted: My girlfriend isn't great neighborhood for school and because her school is split up among main street.  I dont like the thought of her walking around there.  I was talking to her about it the other day.  I was thinking about getting her a Spyder-Co self defense knife like my brother got, but I was looking at the Kimber Guardian Angel.  I think that would be great.  It is only $43 however Kimber will not ship to NY.  Any other options? Is she mentally prepared to instantly react and take someones life in a pretty brutal manner? Is she prepared to learn and practice the required skills to effectively defend herself with a knife? Unless she can answer yes to those two questions she is probably better off with a self-dense spray and some basic unarmed self defense tactics. The last thing you want is to arm an attacker with your own weapon.

She has taken self defense courses and she said that she wanted OC spray the thing is we can buy it in NY.  I am going to have to take a trip down to PA.

rkbar15 is correct that it all begins with mindset but there are ways to impress upon a person (male or female) just how important your life is and the necessity to do terrible things to someone else in order to defend oneself. There are two types of people in this world predators and prey.  

What I have a problem with is the perpetual myth that I keep hearing over and over that the aggressor will take the light or the knife or the gun away from you and use it against you. Have any of you tried to get a spyderco delica out of another persons hand while they are still conscious? Its near impossible even if the person holding the knife isn't the most determined. Give a person the skills to stay conscious and stay on their feet and a quick knife lesson of X'ing and dotting and you have created a formidable opponent/defender- women or man.  

Since the time we started using tools man has scocialized women and conditioned them to think they are inferior to us. Fathers and brothers tell daughters and sisters that they shouldnt carry a gun because your male attacker will take it away and kill you with it. What else are they to believe? Someone hears something enough times and they start to believe it.

 

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: is pepper spray ok in ny? I won't get treated like a criminal for that? www.selfdefenses.com/forcespray/newyork.html www.oswego.edu/administration/police/misc_laws/SDSpray.html University Police Self Defense Sprays Penal Law Sections 265.20 and 270.05 have been amended to permit persons over the age of 18 years, and who have not been convicted of a felony or a crime of assault, to purchase and possess a self-defense spray of a type authorized by regulations of the department of health. The Department of Health has promulgated regulations which define what self-defense sprays may be legally possessed. These regulations authorize sprays containing oleoresin capsicum, and no other substance, as the active ingredient (pepper sprays). Any spray containing tear-gas remains illegal. Self-defense sprays are further limited by the Department of Health to a maximum net weight of three quarters ounce, and a maximum strength of 0.7 per cent by weight of total capsaicinoids. The canister must not be disguised in a manner so as appear to be something other than a self-defense spray.

For clarification here, do you mean 70%, 7% or .7%.  The reason I ask is the LifeAct is 10% percent capsaicinoids.  I think that you mean 7%, if you do than that basically means we are screwed as far as this product goes.

I have seen the Guardain Angel by Kimber for sale at Pro-Gun in Victor, so I would say it is OK in NY.  I read through NYS Penal law regarding OC and couldn't find anything about limiting % of capscacian.

Quoted: I have seen the Guardain Angel by Kimber for sale at Pro-Gun in Victor, so I would say it is OK in NY.  I read through NYS Penal law regarding OC and couldn't find anything about limiting % of capscacian.

SWATsnip3r if they do have it at pro-gun I'm more than willing to pick it up tommorow (they are closed on sunday and I head back to college on monday morning) and ship it to you. Let me know.

Quoted: I read through NYS Penal law regarding OC and couldn't find anything about limiting % of capscacian.

That's because the regulations regarding the NY defense spray aren't in the PL. You can't legally purchase OC spray from an out of state source and possess it in NYS. You can only legally purchase NY OC compliant defense spray in NY from a licensed pharmacist or NY licensed gun dealer.

Quoted: Quoted: I read through NYS Penal law regarding OC and couldn't find anything about limiting % of capscacian. That's because the regulations regarding the NY defense spray aren't in the PL. You can't legally purchase OC spray from an out of state source and possess it in NYS. You can only legally purchase NY OC compliant defense spray in NY from a licensed pharmacist or NY licensed gun dealer.

i am a registered pharmacist in NY.  i will have to investigate this further.  i was not aware of this.  if you have any info please pass it on.

Quoted: You would be surprised the damage that one of these can do. If its good enough for English soccer hooligans, it will be fine for campus. Its easy to replace the blades to keep it razor sharp at all times, plus it falls under the "tools for art class" classification. img255.imageshack.us/img255/6845/boxcutter2uk7.jpg

sure, if you're enrolled in an art class that requires cutting stuff
a small folding pocket knife would probably look more innocent

Another incident:

ROBBERY



Two students reported that while on the 100 block of Marshall Street on Saturday, Sept. 29, at 3:35 a.m., they were approached a group of 6-8 unknown males. One of the unknown males put his arm around one of the students and asked him if he wanted any drugs.  The unknown male then asked the student to see how much money he had in his wallet. The student responded by saying that he did not have any money and pulled his wallet out to show the unknown male. The unknown male then grabbed the student's wallet, pushed him away and punched him in the eye. The second student was told by another unknown male to hand over his wallet or the same thing would happen to him. The suspect then took the student's wallet out of his pocket, took the money out and handed the wallet back to the student.



In a separate but related incident, two other students reported that while walking on the 100 block of Marshall Street, they were approached in the same manner as the previous two students.



The suspects left the scene in two separate vehicles. One vehicle was described as a silver colored, 4-door sedan, and the second vehicle was described as a tan colored mini-van.



The victims described the suspects as:



#1: male, black, early 20s, 5'10" to 6'0" tall, heavy set



#2: male, white, early 20s, short, stocky build, with a shaved head, last seen wearing a white or light grey hooded sweatshirt



There are no descriptions available of the remaining suspects.

Quoted: i am a registered pharmacist in NY.  i will have to investigate this further.  i was not aware of this.  if you have any info please pass it on.

Call the 800 #. i"m sure they will be able to tell you what you need to do in order to sell self dense sprays in NY. You could also call one the pharmacies listed on their website. Just plug in your zip code on the web page.

www.selfdefenses.com/forcespray/newyork.html

Quoted: For clarification here, do you mean 70%, 7% or .7%.  The reason I ask is the LifeAct is 10% percent capsaicinoids.  I think that you mean 7%, if you do than that basically means we are screwed as far as this product goes.

7 %. You are limited to a few brands such as Mace with its 5.5 %, which is what I use. Really though, the 5.5 % works just fine. I got a snoutful of it last month and it was painful enough to make me want to leave the house and seek decontamination. The longer stuff only means a longer decon time.

Quoted: Quoted: i am a registered pharmacist in NY.  i will have to investigate this further.  i was not aware of this.  if you have any info please pass it on. Call the 800 #. i"m sure they will be able to tell you what you need to do in order to sell self dense sprays in NY. You could also call one the pharmacies listed on their website. Just plug in your zip code on the web page. www.selfdefenses.com/forcespray/newyork.html

i e-mailed kimber as well.  just curious what the deal is.

According to NYS PC, Self Defense Spray is defined and legal for carry for people over the age of 18.  Here are the PC sections:

2) PL 270.05 makes poss/sale mace/pepper spray a b misd and then 270.05 (5) exempts self-defense sprays poss by person 18 or older; see also 265.20 (14) for definition of "self defense spray device"

I will post the complete section 270.05 when I get out of class.