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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/6/2005 5:51:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 7:00:31 AM EDT by GPK007]
Aug 28th 9am signup 10am Start shooting $10 a shooter.



If you haven't gathered yet from previous posts I work at American Firearms School in N. Attleboro MA.

I have been reluctant in the past to disclose this information due to the high number of people who have a bad taste in there mouth from our range.

Well the old Ceo up an quit and now I am third in command and the Store/range manager.

Our facility is really nice althoughthe last 2 years it has gone down hill but I hope to help change that with the new CEO and manager.

The important part is that I would like to host a evening or weekend ARF shoot...my range is extremly flexible and can be used in a multitude of ways. I thinking something along the lines of a reduced target qual on the left side at 25 yards a move and shoot 3 Gun style course on the right side and a run through our Live fire sim with a 9mm AR that I could provide. I could award prizes for best shooters ETC Also Picadilly is across the street so a after shoot get together could be arrainged.

Website www.americanfirearmsschool.com

Two rangse 6 lanes each 25 yards indoor AC/Heat Also store and 2 Sims

GPK...out

Link Posted: 7/6/2005 7:32:52 AM EDT
Have you checked into the legal aspects of people from out of state coming to your range? It is my understanding that because of McClure-Volmer Act of '86 as long as the fire arm is locked up and legal on both ends of the trip you can take your firearm with you. McClure-Volmer doesn't protect you if you remove the firearm from the case within a state that doesn't allow or requires cerification/registration.

It is my understanding that it is illegal for anyone without a Mass. FID card to posess a firearm or ammunition. The penalty is a year in jail. It is also my understanding that for a nonresident FID card is $100 a year plus a lot of paper work. Also Mass. continued the Assault Weapons Ban. If a nonresident had a new "No Ban" firearm or magazine, they would be in violation if they brought it to Mass.

I'm not sure but is it even legal in Mass. for a nonFID holder (resident or nonresident) to even hold or use a firearm? Even if you supply the firearm that is Mass. legal, what about nonFID holder purchasing the ammo? I think it is great that you would like to put on a shoot. For me personally, I would need these legal questions answered. I wouldn't want to have someone come down from NH for an afternoon of fun and end up in Mass. Superior Court with jail time and legal fees. Please update.

Scott
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 9:02:29 AM EDT
I believe if your "under the supervision" of someone, the club or a individual, who's properly licensed your ok*. As I said "I believe".......not "as it is written".
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 12:15:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2005 12:16:31 PM EDT by centermass181]
sounds like fun.

looks like the "pies" have it.

Link Posted: 7/6/2005 12:51:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2005 9:35:49 AM EDT by LenS]
Scott has good reason for concern!

Fed Law (FOPA '86) requires one to be legal at both beginning and end of the journey and NOTHING but "essential stops" along the way. Stopping to participate in a shoot doesn't meet this requirement.

MA does NOT issue FIDs to non-residents. An AR15 being "hi-cap" by definition, requires a LTC. NR LTCs take as much as 6 months to be issued and are only good for 1 year, cost is $100/year plus required MA approved training course (1st time only), etc.

This info was confirmed by Chief Ron Glidden, chmn of the Gov's Gun Control Advisory Board.

- MGLs requires anyone bringing guns/ammo/hi-cap mags (pre-ban only) into MA must have a LTC (in this case) OR can do so as long as they are legal in their home-state AND are attending a gun show/exhibit or participating in a competition. NOT allowed for general get-together, plinking, training under MGLs.

- NOBODY (except LE/Mil on official business) can bring no-ban guns/mags or restricted mags into MA. Possession is a felony with something like 10 year jail time/mag or gun.

- NRs (even with MA LTC) can NOT legally buy ammo (or long guns) in MA. Only exception is ammo bought at a firing range, but none of those rounds may leave the range. [Brilliant piece of legislation with no possible enforcement.]

- ANYONE (without a LTC/FID) can handle/shoot guns in MA under the supervision of someone with a MA LTC/FID (license required depends on the gun type in question).

OK, how do we get around this BS and still have fun?

Easy, declare the event a "competition" and have a competitive shoot-off at the end/beginning. Fun the rest of the time and you are legal. No prizes or entry fees are required to meet this part of the law. The NR bringing guns into MA should have something in writing declaring a competition during some part of the event.

This is what we did for the Randy Cain defensive handgun course I took in Tyngsboro last month and we'll do the same thing in a few weeks for the Gabe Suarez class.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 12:53:41 PM EDT
Now for a question:

- What is the anticipated cost/shooter?

I contacted the original owner when the place opened, as I was trying to put something like this together. I was told that they wanted something like $500/hour to rent the range. That was the end of that!!


Link Posted: 7/6/2005 12:59:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2005 5:13:33 AM EDT by daisywench]
Sounds good! Keep us posted on date/time and cost, please!

Look forward to seeing more info about this...

Thanks much!
Daisy

ETA: I'm a bit disappointed at the obvious female exclusion on the poll. So, I'm adding my own. "I LIKE THE BIG SALAMI"

oh, and congratulations on the promotion! Yay you!


Link Posted: 7/6/2005 2:29:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 5:30:29 AM EDT by GPK007]
This would be a Competion hence the prizes. As far as cost It's $10 a person.

GPK...out
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 4:10:51 PM EDT
I'm in. I was just there yesterday, that must have been you I saw testing the 9mm AR.
Link Posted: 7/6/2005 8:59:08 PM EDT
If the date works with my schedule, you can count me in. My Wife may also attend, so she'd be a "maybe". . . perhaps as an observer only, as she's a lefty and I've never even tried her out with the AR15, been sticking to .22 handguns for her.

Price is very reasonable. I even told James that ~13 of us did something similar in Seattle WA back in 1999. We rented a police training range in a gunshop/range and each paid $11 for 3 hours. Had a blast since we had a "hot range" the whole time, did barricades, bowling pins, taped two 1x3s together and with teams of 5 shooters (AR15s) "sawed" thru them at the black tape. Winning team cut thru the 1x3s first. Also did hostage situations with the IDPA targets.
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 4:35:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/7/2005 4:35:47 AM EDT by GPK007]

Originally Posted By swatmedic:
I'm in. I was just there yesterday, that must have been you I saw testing the 9mm AR.



...their on to me...

Yea i finally got it running after I noticed the roll pin that holds the extractor had backed out.

GPK...out
Link Posted: 7/7/2005 2:45:07 PM EDT
Sounds like fun. Good idea, and keep us posted.
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 8:53:17 AM EDT
I would love to attend but the only pre ban I have is a Colt M16. I am renewing my nonresident LTC. I have shoot with Class III owners from MA here in NH. They have stated that MA has a special license for machine guns. This last time I went to renew my LTC, I asked about a license to bring my M16 into MA to shoot. I was told that the only legal way would be for a dealer to demo for law enforcement only. I do have a C&R FFL but was told that wasn't good enough. I do nave a Bushmaster lower that was made in '97. After the Federal ban ended I had the post ban barrel threaded. So how could I attend?

Scott
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 6:09:03 PM EDT
A C&R FFL is enough to get a "green card" MG License (that is part of MGL). However, I do no know if there is any such thing as a NR MG License. Cost is $100/year for NR licenses and it can easily take up to 6 months to get a license or renewal!

I'd recommend calling the Exec Office of Public Safety and ask for their legal office to get a good answer. They may refer you to CHSB. CHSB has a long track record of giving out bad information . . . I don't know if it is intentional or incompetence.
Link Posted: 7/8/2005 6:12:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2005 9:30:05 AM EDT by LenS]
I dropped by AFS today and had a long chat with GPK and met Don.

I really hope GPK is able to do all that he'd like to with the store/range. Stay tuned and hopefully we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

GPK seems like a stand-up guy who sincerely wants to improve the place and the image of AFS.

I look forward to the get-together that he is planning.
Link Posted: 7/10/2005 7:09:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By daisywench:
Sounds good! Keep us posted on date/time and cost, please!

Look forward to seeing more info about this...

Thanks much!
Daisy

ETA: I'm a bit disappointed at the obvious female exclusion on the poll. So, I'm adding my own. "I LIKE THE BIG SALAMI"

oh, and congratulations on the promotion! Yay you!




What, girls can't like pie too?

Keep us posted on this, as I would like to attend if I can.
Link Posted: 7/11/2005 6:44:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 5:26:51 AM EDT by GPK007]
Okay this is definately going to happen Aug 28th it's a Sunday Starts at Sign-Up Starts at 9Am we shoot at 10Am. and it's slowly turning into a Military Carbine Match...IE Ak's and M-1 Carbines and similar that way more people can participate

Let me know what you think

GPK...out

PS Our Indoor range is any caliber up to .50 BMG and FMJ is fine.


Edited to include only one person will be Allowed to use a Hi-Point and he will be mocked accordingly...
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 6:42:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 5:27:45 AM EDT by GPK007]
Moved 1 day foward becuase Sundays are slower to Aug 28th 9 am Sign-up 10 am start shooting .



GPK...out
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:32:40 AM EDT
I would really like to attend but my son is graduating from Basic Training that day. He'd be pissed if I missed it.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:31:17 PM EDT
I would go, but 2 hrs is a long drive for me. Anyone wanna car-pool??? let me know.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 3:25:02 PM EDT
I'm interested - I have a Mass LTC ALP Non Resident permit but my AR's are all no-bans.......so it would have to still be a "competition"
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:47:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
I'm interested - I have a Mass LTC ALP Non Resident permit but my AR's are all no-bans.......so it would have to still be a "competition"



"No Bans" are forbidden in MA for any reason (other than driving thru under FOPA). Only exceptions are LE/Military and I don't know what restrictions apply there (may have to be an official business thing).
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 10:11:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By canon3825:
I would love to attend but the only pre ban I have is a Colt M16. I am renewing my nonresident LTC. I have shoot with Class III owners from MA here in NH. They have stated that MA has a special license for machine guns. This last time I went to renew my LTC, I asked about a license to bring my M16 into MA to shoot. I was told that the only legal way would be for a dealer to demo for law enforcement only. I do have a C&R FFL but was told that wasn't good enough. I do nave a Bushmaster lower that was made in '97. After the Federal ban ended I had the post ban barrel threaded. So how could I attend?

Scott



you do know you'll need to get a form 20 approved even if it's legal in Mass, don't you?
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 12:08:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LenS:

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
I'm interested - I have a Mass LTC ALP Non Resident permit but my AR's are all no-bans.......so it would have to still be a "competition"



"No Bans" are forbidden in MA for any reason (other than driving thru under FOPA). Only exceptions are LE/Military and I don't know what restrictions apply there (may have to be an official business thing).



I thought they were legal for any competition?..........if that doesnt stand I guess I'll go shooting in NH that day........
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 12:42:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By J_Smith:

Originally Posted By LenS:

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
I'm interested - I have a Mass LTC ALP Non Resident permit but my AR's are all no-bans.......so it would have to still be a "competition"



"No Bans" are forbidden in MA for any reason (other than driving thru under FOPA). Only exceptions are LE/Military and I don't know what restrictions apply there (may have to be an official business thing).



I thought they were legal for any competition?..........if that doesnt stand I guess I'll go shooting in NH that day........



I have Tin-Foil hats and bump stocks for anyone who needs them.

Also the legallity of bump stocks is still not known so please do not lock this thread or delete my post.

Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:38:35 PM EDT
Sorry, our laws are more than a little convoluted.

The ONLY thing a NR can do in MA without a NR LTC is bring guns in for a competition or exhibition/gun show. BUT, all guns brought into the state MUST comply with our AWB/mag ban.

So, "no bans"/new hi-cap mags aren't allowed in the state under any circumstances (other than official duty use - Military/LE).

Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:50:25 PM EDT
Thanks for the invite - but I guess myself and several active-duty military members will have to "pass" on this due to Massachusettts laws. I guess wrorking for the Department of Homeland Security stills makes me a felon in Massachusetts..............hmm.....perfect time for me to present my Massachusetts oriented license plate!!!

Here's to the Masshole Antigunners!!..............

Link Posted: 8/13/2005 4:59:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 5:08:31 AM EDT by Firefoxammo]

Originally Posted By J_Smith:
Thanks for the invite - but I guess myself and several active-duty military members will have to "pass" on this due to Massachusettts laws. I guess wrorking for the Department of Homeland Security stills makes me a felon in Massachusetts..............hmm.....perfect time for me to present my Massachusetts oriented license plate!!!

Here's to the Masshole Antigunners!!..............

i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/m4556mm/000_0031.jpg



AH, Finally a true depiction of Masshole laws

I also have decided not to attend, after looking at the "book" of laws I have given up.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 2:26:42 PM EDT
So, who is going to the shoot? I know I will be there. Haven't shot my RRA in a few years so be good to do.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 4:59:38 AM EDT
Ill be Here
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:28:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GPK007:
Ill be Here



You better be, I called yesterday to try and get ahold of you. Find out some basics, especially if there is any ammo regs for the indoor range. You were off! Shame on you.

But, I am all stoked about going. Haven't shot my RRA in like 3 Yrs (had it in pawn). I hope there will be some general shoot time because my poor baby is still a virgin, have less than 600 rnds through the barrel. I really need to change that.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:33:07 PM EDT
With the weather looking good i'll be SA fishing, there are only a few months up here.have a great day!
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:50:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:15:59 AM EDT
Although not a participator, I watched from the wings, this was an awesome course that I have not seen equalled at any IPSC match I've been to.

KUDOS to GPK007 for a great shoot. I hope AFS continues to offer high quality competitions like this in the future.

It would have been nice to see more of a turnout, especially from the ar15.com crowd, but those who came had a great time.

Thanks GPK007, Don, and AFS.

Next time I'll bring pie.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:43:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 7:45:44 PM EDT by 95thFoot]
I, too, would have loved to go, but I work weekends until the beginning of November. Wanna try again later on this year? If we make this a regular thing, we could build up an ARFCOM community through this, such as the TX and AZ guys have done.

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