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Posted: 4/30/2008 2:30:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2008 1:15:51 PM EST by ARinKCMO]
Yes there is the tacked thread, but I don't want to clutter it up with preparation, questions, rules talk, gear talk etc discussion. (Any more than it already is, at least!)

Let's try to stay on topic in regards to this particular shoot so readers don't get confused and/or add in things unrelated to this shoot.

ROUND COUNT:
Pistol 130
Rifle 96
Shotgun 81
M-249 SAW Machine Gun 10

Getting to use a SAW is going to kick some ass! Lot more rifle shots this year, nice.

SQUADING:
Black Snowman and I will be sending in our registration early next week. Do we know how they are handling squad requests yet? Last year, it was on the form, but I got juggled around a bit. Still wound up with some great guys, but I am curious if it might be a bit more concrete this year. If so, anyone here want to try squad up with B_S and I?

RULES:
They are using the DPMS tri-gun rules:
http://www.trigunchallenge.com/pages/rules.html

GEAR:
I am currently reconfiguring my shotgun to conform to the rules. I'm swapping out the Knoxx CopStock for a Speedfeed 3 pistol grip job, and adding a side saddle. I will be shooting my 9mm CZ-75B, cause as I learned last year, having to reload a 10 round .45 several times per CoF is a real buzzkill. Also, I will be in Tac Optics, my Bushmaster Varminter and DMS scope have served me well so far, might as well continue using it!

HOTELS:
We haven't booked rooms yet. I know some guys are booked at the Super 8 in Booneville. Last year I stayed at the Days Inn in Booneville. No complaints, that's probably where I'll book this year.
B_S and I are now booked at the Days Inn in Booneville.

Oh, question for the match organizers: Can we show up for registration and such early Friday morning? I'm short on vacation time, and would prefer to not have to miss a day of work and pay for an extra night in the hotel if I can avoid that...
Yes, registration and shooter's meeting is early Friday morning...awesome!
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 6:09:04 AM EST
I have a gear question too. I'm thinking about using my 11-87 for the match. It has one unual mod so I can load it quicker. I've added an extension to the loading gate button. Does that knock me out of Tactical? It works the same way, it's just easier to hit the button than before. It's considerably smaller than the Dave's Metal Works Easyloader.

It's getting a Speedfeed III, Choate 5 round mag extension, and I have a side saddle coming for it but I haven't decided if I'm going to install it or not. I'll have 3 of the Choate carriers on my chest rig so that's 18 rounds pretty handy. I'll add a pic when I get the shotgun done for clarification and the gun pr0n factor.
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 6:28:39 AM EST
From what I understand, the easy-loader buttons and modifications like that will not put you out of tactical class. As long as your gun is 8+1, with no speed loader tubes or a detatchable mag then you're fine.

Is the speed-feed a pistol grip stock? I've always had problems loading with a pistol grip on my shotgun.

Polytech
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 7:14:47 AM EST
The Speedfeed I is a standard stock, the Speedfeed III is a pistol grip. If I end up not liking the pistol grip I'll just go back to the wood stock. I'm hoping the pistol grip will give me more control over it while I'm holding on to it with 1 hand for loading. My 11-87 is going to be very nose heavy so I think I'll need all the leverage I can get.

I'll IM you on loading techniques and what issues the grip was causing.
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 8:02:40 AM EST
I do the 'flip and burn' technique, so it doesn't matter much for me it if is pistol grip or not. But, I like having a pistol grip for the shooting, I just seem to do better, and all the muscle memory stuff with the pistol grip is nice.

I am still practicing the 'grab lots of shells and load them with one hand' trick. Good thing I got those dummy shells. I will probably also practice loading from the sidesaddle while keeping the gun up in a firing position, for some of those 'Crap, need one or two shots RIGHT NOW' situations.
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 8:30:10 AM EST
Just my opinion, but, I think the "flip the gun over point it down and stare at it while I load" in weak-hand or strong-hand wastes time. Too much movement of the gun, you have to re-establish a firing grip/ sight picture, lots of extra movement.

If you load weak hand on the shoulder all you have to do is rotate the gun on your shoulder to get the loading gate facing a little left and stuff the shells in. You are able to keep the gun in your shoulder allowing faster reaquisition of the sights and there for faster shooting. As far as the gun being front heavy with one hand on a standard pistol grip, as soon as the buzzer goes you won't notice, besides you should overcome that issue with lots of reloading practice, a few evenings of holding the gun up for an hour and it will feel like a feather. For me the "tactical" pistol grips have gotten in my way in the past when I load, its just another thing that sticks out that can make me fumble shells.

Polytech
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 8:36:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 8:59:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/1/2008 8:59:40 AM EST by Black_Snowman]
Well, since Poly posted it here I guess he doesn't need to reply to my IM. If I chould shoot my FAL worth a hoot I'd go Heavy Metal. Then I wouldn't have to worry about the 11-87, I'd just stick with the Mossy.
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 9:15:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By eric10mm:

Originally Posted By PolyTechKID:
Just my opinion, but, I think the "flip the gun over point it down and stare at it while I load" in weak-hand or strong-hand wastes time. Too much movement of the gun, you have to re-establish a firing grip/ sight picture, lots of extra movement.

If you load weak hand on the shoulder all you have to do is rotate the gun on your shoulder to get the loading gate facing a little left and stuff the shells in. You are able to keep the gun in your shoulder allowing faster reaquisition of the sights and there for faster shooting. As far as the gun being front heavy with one hand on a standard pistol grip, as soon as the buzzer goes you won't notice, besides you should overcome that issue with lots of reloading practice, a few evenings of holding the gun up for an hour and it will feel like a feather. For me the "tactical" pistol grips have gotten in my way in the past when I load, its just another thing that sticks out that can make me fumble shells.

Polytech

But, but, but, ..........you're a gamer, Poly.



Not a gamer, a Tactical Gamer! I've got the multicam!

Polytech
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 9:17:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Black_Snowman:
Well, since Poly posted it here I guess he doesn't need to reply to my IM. If I chould shoot my FAL worth a hoot I'd go Heavy Metal. Then I wouldn't have to worry about the 11-87, I'd just stick with the Mossy.


You got your IM, although I forgot to add that you'd probably place better in the comps if your gun wasn't so embarrassed to be seen

Polytech
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 9:28:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By PolyTechKID:
Just my opinion, but, I think the "flip the gun over point it down and stare at it while I load" in weak-hand or strong-hand wastes time. Too much movement of the gun, you have to re-establish a firing grip/ sight picture, lots of extra movement.

If you load weak hand on the shoulder all you have to do is rotate the gun on your shoulder to get the loading gate facing a little left and stuff the shells in. You are able to keep the gun in your shoulder allowing faster reaquisition of the sights and there for faster shooting. As far as the gun being front heavy with one hand on a standard pistol grip, as soon as the buzzer goes you won't notice, besides you should overcome that issue with lots of reloading practice, a few evenings of holding the gun up for an hour and it will feel like a feather. For me the "tactical" pistol grips have gotten in my way in the past when I load, its just another thing that sticks out that can make me fumble shells.

Polytech


I was just thinking about how in my carbine class, I learned all kinds of slick ways to load an AR15. I remember the instructor drilling into us about never take your hand off the grip! (he pretty much said the same as you, no need to reacquire sight picture, economy of motion, etc) So, if I can do all that with an AR, surely I can figure it out with a shotgun. My Mossberg is lighter than my Varminter. 5 lbs empty versus 8.5 empty. Heh.

Dang it! NOw I gotta reconfigure my vest! Good thing it's all modular and easy to reconfigure.
Link Posted: 5/1/2008 11:09:32 AM EST
Poly, you don't mean Shiney do you? Everybody loves Shiney! I'm even thinking of finishing my SP01 to match.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:02:07 PM EST
Bump for an answer to "question for the match organizers: Can we show up for registration and such early Friday morning?"

Plus comment. I realized Shiney had a comp and figured that would put me in open so I swapped it for a flash hider to be safe. Now I just need to re-zero it for th new muzzle device and optic mount. I opted for the American Defense Recon for my DMS-1. It's nice.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:15:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2008 6:16:44 PM EST by PolyTechKID]
I believe comps are okay for tactical classes, as long as they are less than 1" in dia, and less than 3" long. So a miculek, DTNC, Titan or a Benny Coley would be okay, or at least it was last year.

Polytech
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 6:38:08 PM EST
Does the orund count include one hit per target or a double tap. Because that makes a huge diffrence.
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 8:22:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2008 8:24:57 PM EST by ARinKCMO]

Originally Posted By gdp0341:
Does the orund count include one hit per target or a double tap. Because that makes a huge diffrence.


Generally the round count is the minimum # needed, so if they are requiring double taps, or only singles, or quadriples, it should be included in the round count. That said, always bring extra ammo. Never know when a ... oh say a shooting star will eat up an extra 20 rounds on ya!

(CMMG usually runs it as paper targets require double taps OR one 'A' zone hit. Steel has to be down. Normally not a problem, but sometimes the Big Poppers can be a bit resistant to single light hits. On rifle, they use 'flash targets' Which, at longer ranges, require a very precise hit and/or a heavier load to get that dang flash bit to pop up... )
Link Posted: 5/3/2008 9:09:27 PM EST
And remember, no one ever came back out of a fight or a match saying, "Man, I had way too much ammo."

I'm planning on bringing 300+ pistol, 200+ rifle and 125+ shotgun, and hoping I'll be bringing a lot of it home. Too bad I can't bring the SAW home too All this talk about ammo reminds me, what about slugs? Any slugs this year? I was planning on bringing some to be safe but it's nice to know for sure ahead of time.
Link Posted: 5/6/2008 1:23:40 PM EST
They have posted the schedule, and the big news, for me at least, is the registration and shooter's safety meeting is early Friday morning.

My registration has been sent in, and next week on my vacation I will be loading up a bunch of crap and taking my shotgun out with it's New 1337 Gamer Gear for testing.


Just about a month to go! Can't wait!
Link Posted: 5/7/2008 5:44:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2008 5:46:07 AM EST by ShakyDog]
- I would say the range is Girl Friend dependent friendly :-)
There is not running water or porcelin, just a port-a-potie.

- Friday AM is check-in.

Any questions not answered yet? Post them here and I will try to answer what I can, Ken is out this week.

Steve
Link Posted: 5/8/2008 8:20:23 AM EST
So....who all's going to this thing?

Link Posted: 5/8/2008 9:25:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2008 9:25:59 AM EST by PolyTechKID]
I will be range officering!
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 9:11:32 PM EST
BTT.

Only a few more days! Let's see...I still have to load up ALL of the needed ammo.
Got my fancy shotgun shell dummies to practice reloading with...have done NONE of that.

I've been distracted by too many things lately, I guess....
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 3:37:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 3:48:05 AM EST by PolyTechKID]

Originally Posted By ARinKCMO:
BTT.

Only a few more days! Let's see...I still have to load up ALL of the needed ammo.
Got my fancy shotgun shell dummies to practice reloading with...have done NONE of that.

I've been distracted by too many things lately, I guess....


You had better start! you may need to stuff lots of shells in your gun on stage 9, like 30 something I'd make sure I had a glove for my weak hand on this stage too

Start hydrating wednesday, it is gonna be HOT!

I'll be on stage 4 with 69camaro and Tim, lots-o-paper with pistol and rifle.

I will give detailed course descriptions with lots of hints and tips for propper amount of 9mm, .223, or 12ga

Polytech

ETA: Bring cases for your shotgun and rifle, you can go around with out them with no problem, but they will become very hot from the sun and shooting by lunch that it will be painful to hold them without gloves if they're not cased or coverd with something when they're sitting around.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:01:27 AM EST
PTK

Come on - show a brother some love. Give us the details on the stages.

Longest distance for long range rifle shots, type of targets for shotgun, rifle, and handgun from the stages. Stage descriptions. Any unusual shooting positions, or supplied weapons we may have the pleasure of shooting. Blah Blah Blah.

I will be down with three other Minnesota shooters early Thursday afternoon, are the RO's shooting that day? Would we be allowed to watch?

Payne
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:09:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 5:20:04 AM EST by PolyTechKID]

Originally Posted By Payne:
PTK

Come on - show a brother some love. Give us the details on the stages.

Longest distance for long range rifle shots, type of targets for shotgun, rifle, and handgun from the stages. Stage descriptions. Any unusual shooting positions, or supplied weapons we may have the pleasure of shooting. Blah Blah Blah.

I will be down with three other Minnesota shooters early Thursday afternoon, are the RO's shooting that day? Would we be allowed to watch?

Payne


RO's shot this weekend, don't know if there will be anybody shooting on thursday. Did you miss the "tips, tricks, and secrets for 9mm, .223, & 12ga" ?!? Come on man! If I'm gonna give up the goods I need some compensation I will telll you this, you will need a way to carry at least 28 shotgun shells on you
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:53:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 7:26:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By PolyTechKID:
I will telll you this, you will need a way to carry at least 28 shotgun shells on you


Cool. My Vest will have 30 shells on it, and the gun itself can have 17+1. I should be good. Plus, I have the hydration pouch for my vest now. And, my shooting partner picked up one of those 'off-road' garden wagons, and we'll have cases, gloves and chairs. We should be set.

I do wish I had spent more time practicing with my shotgun. But...my new motorcycle has really distracted me the past couple weeks.

See you all there!
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 8:40:48 AM EST
Did any stages require slings for the long guns?

Also, what was the maximum number of pistol rounds required on a stage? (I am shooting heavy metal and a little concerned about having enough 8 round magazines.)
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 9:38:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 10:15:03 AM EST by PolyTechKID]

Originally Posted By dletsch:
Did any stages require slings for the long guns?

Also, what was the maximum number of pistol rounds required on a stage? (I am shooting heavy metal and a little concerned about having enough 8 round magazines.)


You won't need a sling for the rifle, unless you want it, its not required. I have no idea what the highest round count was, I shoot a glock 34 and carry 5 spare mags so I don't really worry about round counts

Polytech

ETA: DON'T FORGET THE BUG SPRAY! Lots of ticks, 3 of the stages have lots of walking in the grass.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 11:56:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By dletsch:
Did any stages require slings for the long guns?

I won't be there this year, but last year there where no slings or bipods allowed. I think the open class may of allowed bipods, and vertical grips. Most of those guys where the real pros with the real expensive gear.

Also, what was the maximum number of pistol rounds required on a stage? (I am shooting heavy metal and a little concerned about having enough 8 round magazines.)


Link Posted: 6/2/2008 1:25:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 1:28:33 PM EST by PolyTechKID]
Well there were a few slings and a few vert grips on non-open guns last year, don't really see where a sling or a vert grip would put you at any advantage over another.

I'll put it this way, every time I have shot at cmmg I have had a sling on my rifle, and I don't shoot open class, and when I run my carbine I have a vert grip.

Worst case scenario, you show up with a sling and some whinney-complaining-gamer cries and you take your sling off. Hopefully they can keep this match from becoming some IDPA rule-fest.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 3:59:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 4:00:09 PM EST by dletsch]

Originally Posted By PolyTechKID:
Well there were a few slings and a few vert grips on non-open guns last year, don't really see where a sling or a vert grip would put you at any advantage over another.


Some 3-gun matches under loose IMGA rules require slings on long guns. Blue Ridge did this year, which is why I was asking. The MGM Ironman requires them also. Its not an advantage - its a requirement, and the stage description will usually say so, but their are no COFs yet.

For example, this is the COF for stage 1 at brm3g:

"Begin with pistol fully loaded and holstered; shotgun with bolt down on empty chamber, tube loaded, and slung; standing at Start Position. Upon signal engage targets as they become visible with your pistol. Ground safe pistol in area provided, then charge shotgun, and engage targets as they become visible."

My heavy metal shotgun is STILL at the gunsmith being shortened, and will probably not have swivels on it when it gets back, so I was wondering if a sling is required. If it isn't I won't have one on the gun. Steve just emailed me that COFs will be up by tomorrow, so I can look then and decide.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 6:19:59 PM EST
They are up now at www.midwest3gun.com

Steve
(Placing the text up there in 5 minutes)
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 9:03:51 PM EST


This....

is.....


EPIC!
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 9:46:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2008 3:58:26 PM EST by ARinKCMO]
I'm in Squad 10 13. The squads were updated, and shuffled around a bit....
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:54:43 AM EST
Stupid question.........any of you MO guys that will be attending have one of the new ruger lcp's? I might be persuaded to miss a penalty or two on stage four if I were to get to put a few rounds through one
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 4:00:48 PM EST
great first day! My squad shot CoFs# 3-7. I'm doing okay, although I totally blew and timed out of #7. I'll blame it on the fact that I got no sleep last night, so I'm just about to drop.

Shooting the SAW was awesome, and that FN Bolt Rifle was really cool. It was pretty fun nailing those targets at 225 yards so easily like that!

See you all tomorrow!
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