I know in Michigan, you cannot have a loaded weapon inside your car. The rifle and ammo has to be seperate. Where the rifle or ammo is inside the cabin and the other is inside the trunk.

But does having a CCW change this? IIRC, if you're driving, your car can be considered concealing a weapon. So You could have a loaded pistol in a glove compartment, center console or whatever. But can you take it a step further, if you have a CCW and have a full size rifle concealed? Or does the "rifle" have to be a "pistol"?

But it is not a CCW.  It is a CPL so a loaded rifle is a no go.  But an AR pistol, or under 26" SBR / SBS that is registered as a MI pistol is good to go.

You're rather confused regarding MI firearms laws.

Let me pull together my sources to bring you up to speed.

ETA: The statement in red is incorrect. The true answer is found in MCL 750.227d:

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel either of the following:

(a) A firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

(i) Taken down.

(ii) Enclosed in a case.

(iii) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.

(iv) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

(b) A pneumatic gun that expels a metallic BB or metallic pellet greater than .177 caliber unless the pneumatic gun is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

(i) Taken down.

(ii) Enclosed in a case.

(iii) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.

(iv) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

The MI State Police Legal Update 66 then confirms that you may transport a loaded magazine in the same case as a firearm as long as the firearm remains unloaded.

Transporting ammunition and long-guns

MCL 750.227d describes the lawful way to transport a shotgun or rifle. While they must be unloaded, they may be transported in the same case as ammunition (including loaded magazines).

Next, MI State Police Legal Update 117 provides a definition of "unloaded" and a citation to MCL 324.40111.

Sec. 40111.

(2) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (3), (4), or (5), this part, or in a department order authorized under section 40107, an individual shall not transport or possess a firearm in or upon a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a case, unloaded and carried in the trunk of a vehicle, or unloaded in a motorized boat.

(8) As used in this section:

(c) "Unloaded" means that the firearm does not have ammunition in the barrel, chamber, cylinder, clip, or magazine when the barrel, chamber, cylinder, clip, or magazine is part of or attached to the firearm.

This legal definition of "unloaded" which was found in the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of 1994, then provides clarification to the statement on the DNR's website regarding transporting firearms.

At all times when carried in or on a motor vehicle, including snowmobiles:

Rifles, shotguns, muzzleloading and other firearms must be unloaded in both barrel and magazine and enclosed in a case or carried in the trunk of a vehicle.

Therefore, the legal definition, and the DNR's reference to unloaded magazine are referring to permanently attached magazines, not removable magazines.

ETA2: I had some more typed up, but lost it when I accidentally refreshed the page. Let me know if you need clarification.

I remembered some of it...

Michigan does not have a Concealed Carry Weapon (CCW) license, but instead has a Concealed Pistol License. Therefore, you may only carry a pistol concealed. I can provide the legal citations and all if you want.

So I can have a loaded magazine in the same compartment as the rifle. Just that the magazine cannot be inserted/attached to the rifle?

If it is a detachable magazine, that is correct. If it's an internal or a permanent magazine, it must be unloaded for transport.

Correct.

 
Awesome. I'll pass the word around.


Seems like it's a popular belief with people I know, that the ammo had to be seperate from the rifle. No matter what.

I suggest you talk directly to a lawyer, the Michigan State Police or the DNR. Page 19 of the 2016 DNR manual specifically states that the rifle must be unloaded in both the barrel and the magazine. There are a lot of people who are trying to bend their personal interpretation into the published restrictions. Some going so far as to say that the DNR is referencing attached magazines, not removable magazines in this particular publication. To be clear, they do not state any difference, only that the magazine must be unloaded. It's my understanding when reading their publication that long guns cannot be loaded when being transported and that includes the magazines. It goes on to say you can't even load the long gun until you reach your hunting blind if the sun isn't up yet.

I have personal friends from my gun club who were nearly arrested for doing so. They were headed to a high power rifle tournament with their magazines loaded 2/8 (2 rounds in one magazine, 8 in the other magazine, as per NRA rapid fire rules) when pulled over by the police. If it were not for all of their spotting scopes, shooting jackets, shooting carts and other paraphernalia associated with tournament events they would probably have been charged. They were cuffed and given a steely talking to and let off with a warning.

The CPL applies to handguns only. It allows the permit holder to carry loaded handguns (and SBR's under 26" registered as handguns) concealed on their persons or in there vehicles. It does not allow long guns to be loaded, and a loaded magazine is considered loaded. Empty AR-15 magazines, a stripper clip guide and loaded stripper clips is probably the limit as to what is guaranteed not to cross the line.

It's one thing to want the law and firearms freedoms to be liberal, meaning allowing for the use and transport to be unimpeded. It's quite another to ignore the fact that it is not. We have come a long way in the last 20 years as far as our gun rights are concerned. We don't need a rash of arrests of people pushing the envelope. I don't want to be a test case.......ever. What will the general public think in the age of "terrorism" when you are hand cuffed on the nightly news with your AR-15 and ten loaded magazines laying on top of the police cruiser? Many people are totally ignorant of firearms, and close to 30 percent of the public have a childish unreasonable fear of them.

If you want to carry an AR-15 loaded under the protection of your CPL I suggest you buy an AR-15 handgun (yuk) or register a SBR as a pistol to protect yourself. That's my opinion.

We've had this exact discussion before and you've said the exact same things.  Yes, the DNR fails to differentiate between fixed and detachable magazines in their print pieces, but you can call them and they will tell you that detachable magazines may be loaded.  The MSP regs are very explicit and widely available, stating that detachable magazines may be loaded.  None of this is wishful thinking or liberal interpretations.  We also established last time around that you are not a LEO, despite your username - I state that because when it appears you may be a LEO (because of your username), some may assign validity to your comments about regulations where there may not be any validity. I'm sorry your friends had a shitty run in with an un-infomed officer, but I'd never let a second or third-hand experience like that affect the way I lawfully exercise my rights.




Don't lose sight of the fact that the rifle needs to be inside a closed case.  I'm not sure if that's what you meant by "compartment" or not.  Rifle must be cased.

Both of you must reread what I posted. I even went so far as to post the laws verbatim so that you may read it for yourself. It is very explicit, even in the Natural Resources act.

Also, the part in red is false. There are more ways to transport a rifle than in a case. Again, please see my post above.

For everyone else, I always make it a point to post the laws verbatim and post a link to the actual Michigan.gov page. If you cannot backup your statements with laws, please don't comment and add to the false information. This happens far too often in this forum.

One exception is if you grandfathered a rifle with a folding stock. One of the reasons why I'll never sell my mini14. It was registered as a pistol under the old 26" to 31" law.

Yes, but once it is transferred, it loses the exception. Therefore, only individuals who already own a rifle registered under this can do this.

Must a stripped lower be in a case or is sitting in my lap ok?
Must a rifle be in a case if enclosed in the trunk of a sedan?
Must a rifle be in a case if it is ratchet strapped to the hood ornament, rear bumper, or roof rack?



Is case defined anywhere?  Is a gun sock ok?  What about an wrapped in an old sweatshirt?  

here is a link to the DNR site that outlines transport.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_37141_37706-31579--,00.html

J-

Please see my post above for all of the details. The DNR link that you provided can be very misleading. I posted all of the relevant background laws that clear it up.

As for chewie's questions, a stripped lower can be sitting on your lap. That would be considered taken down. If it is strapped to something outside the vehicle, it does NOT need to be enclosed in a case because that situation falls under the inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle clause.

Again, please reread my post and all of the laws. There is far too much misinformation in this thread already.

Thanks.
Looks like the "case or wrapper" language was changed at some point in the last fifteen years.

My college buddy who now is a Michigan State Trooper told me the same thing you and your people believed.  I'm assuming he's not super familiar with all the laws yet.

See that's the problem. Do you listen to what the police falsely claim are the laws just so you aren't hassled by them, or do you follow the laws and deal with the police. Personally, I'll deal with the police if I have to.

+1
Why are so many in this state so out of touch when it comes to our own laws??? Do the research, it's your obligation as a gun owner! This is exactly why so many bullshit laws get passed in this state. "A buddy of a buddy of my girlfriends dad told me" Blah, Blah! Get out of the lazy boy and find out for yourself!

It's because Civics classes are not taught in Michigan public schools anymore. It's now Social Studies, and we must adapt to other's feels, not know the law.

Thanks rjbergen for spelling it out and providing hot links.

Actually , I quit talking to the Police

Sure......sit back and drink my little minions....
Get off your a$$ and learn on your own! No public school will ever teach anything but socialistic bull shit. Been that way for over 50 years. Nothin new.