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Posted: 9/24/2004 6:29:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 8:28:18 PM EST by Skammy]
Ok this is gonna be hard and long probably, hope it makes sense.. Please tell me of anything that needs to be corrected

To start of you may not get any of the following rifles.pistol, or shotguns under any circumstances...

All of the following specified rifles:
All AK series While not listed in the law "AR-15 series of rifles" rifles are restricted also at this time, dont bother to try and get "AR-15 series of rifles" or other variants such as the AR-10 and such at this time.These rifles are restricted no matter what features they have, the reciever itself counts as an "assault weapon" at this time. (2) UZI and Galil
Beretta AR-70 (4) CETME Sporter
Colt AR-15 series (6) MAS223
Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match and Sporter
Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C
HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and HK-PSG-1
RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11 and SWD Incorporated M11 and MAC types
SKS with detachable magazine
SIG AMT, PE-57, SIG 550 and 551
Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR.48
Sterling MK-6 (15) Steyer AUG
Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S
Armalite AR-180 (18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle
Calico M-900 (20) J & R ENG M-68
Weaver Arms Nighthawk

All of the following specified pistols:
UZI (2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45
RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11, SWD Incorporated M-11, Advance Armament Inc. M-11, and Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11, and MAC types
INTRATEC TEC-9 (5) Sites Spectre
Sterling MK-7 (7) Calico M-950
Bushmaster Pistol
All of the following specified shotguns:
Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12
Striker 12 (3) Street Sweeper

Next part of our AW law is the "feature" part :

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the firearm.(B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip.

(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

(1) Is the designating feature in most of the law, if the rifle isn't semi-auto, centerfire, and accepts a detachable mag it does not fall under the law, unless it qualifies under (2) or (3)

However if it is semi-auto, centerfire, and accepts a detachable mag it may not have any of the features (A) - (F).

So if you find a rifle that is not of the "AK or AR15 series of rifles" series or named above and it has a features that make it a "Assault weapon" the features may be removed to make the rifle comply with the law. Finding a FFL willing to receive the rifle for you is another story tho.

Clarification on the "features":

The definition of a pistol grip is:
Under the proposed regulations, these firearms are considered to have pistol grips because each of the grips allows for a pistol style grasp in which
the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

An Example of a "A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon":



An alternative to a pistol grip is the ZM weapons grip:


This is legal because:
A "pistol style grasp" allows the fingers to wrap firmly around the grip. The alternative
Barrett 82A1 "thumb hold" exemplar cannot be considered an assault weapon pistol grip
because the device allows only for the thumb and not all fingers, to grasp the device."
The pictured grip only allows for the thumb and not all fingers to grasp it.

The defintion of a detachable magazine is:
"detachable magazine" means any ammunition-feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with
neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is
considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include
clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

If you were to attach a magazine of 10 or less rounds to a semi-automatic rifle centerfire rifle you could have a rifle with any/all of these "features"
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.(B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip.


You can not legally install magazine in excess of 10 rounds the rifle though or have an overall length of less then 30 inches with stocks folded/collapsed

Rimfires! since the law states centerfire the majority of rimfires are unrestricted
You may have any of the following features on a rimfire rifle:

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.(B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (3)an overall length of less than 30 inches.

Under federal law you still must maintain an overall legnth of more than twenty-six inches.
The ATF measures overall length with stocks un-folded/un-collapsed.



I may add the pistol portion to this add a later time.
-Skammy

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 6:49:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:25:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
"AR-15 Series of rifles"



Thanks!, feel free to add to it or clarify it if you want
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:11:43 PM EST
sounds like you've got is pretty well covered. good job.

i think the images help alot. from my experiences, people have difficulty understanding the whole "conspicuosly protruding pistol grip" characteristic.

what is this for?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:35:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 8:37:56 PM EST by Skammy]
For clarification for CA members.. and so people have a quick reference to look over so the same question arn't asked over and over..
maybe we could get a if its deemed useful?
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 12:19:07 PM EST
My AR's a Pre Ban (Pre Cali-Ban) model without the lug. I have several 30 round mag's that I bought way back when. The rifle has a pistol grip and a telestock. Since it's a Pre can I still take it to the range here in the PRK without looking over my sholder?
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 12:28:31 PM EST
Mags are fine and if the gun is registered as an assault weapon its fine..
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 12:32:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Astrogoth:
Since it's a Pre can I still take it to the range here in the PRK without looking over my sholder?



Did you register it before 12/31/99?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:38:01 PM EST
i take my registered pre-kaliban out shooting all the time.
it's legal i'm legal so , why should i worry.
i'll say it again, responsible law abiding,tax paying gun owners are more sensitive to "legal issues" because we dont want to have our 2nd ammendment right to be taken away. so we drive the speed limit ,pay our taxes and get f*8ked by the democratic kali govt. it's a good thing to be a criminal in the prk, because the laws only go after the good guys. f*8k feinstein and boxer and every gun banning son of pigs.
and that now includes THE GOVERNATOR. i voted for mcclintock. so arnold be aware of your actions and we'll see you next election. liberal pig in sheeps clothing. since he signed the .50 ban more .50 have come into this state than if he had not signed it. i dont need a .50. but now i'm going to get one.

meat
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:13:21 PM EST
A little proofreading, some opinions

However it it is semi-auto, centerfire
if it

beneath the action of the weapon
firearm, unless "weapon" is used in the law. See my sig

A "pistol style graps" allows the fingers
grasp

attach the magazine permanently to a semi-automatic rifle
attach a magazine of 10 or less rounds to a semi-automatic rifle I know you mention this below but I think it is best to have it here as well

You could not legally install magazine in excess of 10 rounds the rifle though
You can not legally install a magazine in excess of 10 rounds to the rifle though Hey, I ain't no English major but I think this is "More Correct"

centerfire the majority of the time rimfires are mostly unrestricted
centerfire the majority of rimfires are unrestricted See Above

still must maintain a overall length of than twenty-six inches.
an overall legnth of more than
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:05:29 PM EST
Regarding the ZM weapons grip, how do you know it's legal, is there a DOJ letter saying so?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:25:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Regarding the ZM weapons grip, how do you know it's legal, is there a DOJ letter saying so?



This is an interesting question. I didn't own any ARs when registration came down. I now own several and primarily live in Nevada but cannot take any to "visit". Anyone know for sure if this would be legal to temporarily change out the PG and bring them in for a weekend shoot?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:57:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Regarding the ZM weapons grip, how do you know it's legal, is there a DOJ letter saying so?



This is an interesting question. I didn't own any ARs when registration came down. I now own several and primarily live in Nevada but cannot take any to "visit". Anyone know for sure if this would be legal to temporarily change out the PG and bring them in for a weekend shoot?



www.fabten.com/whats_new.htm

A version of that is legal here. The grip is ATF approved, no word on CA DOJ approval, however.. so be cautious...
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:18:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 8:25:45 PM EST by Skammy]

Originally Posted By BKinzey:
A little proofreading, some opinions

However it it is semi-auto, centerfire
if it

beneath the action of the weapon
firearm, unless "weapon" is used in the law. See my sig

A "pistol style graps" allows the fingers
grasp

attach the magazine permanently to a semi-automatic rifle
attach a magazine of 10 or less rounds to a semi-automatic rifle I know you mention this below but I think it is best to have it here as well

You could not legally install magazine in excess of 10 rounds the rifle though
You can not legally install a magazine in excess of 10 rounds to the rifle though Hey, I ain't no English major but I think this is "More Correct"

centerfire the majority of the time rimfires are mostly unrestricted
centerfire the majority of rimfires are unrestricted See Above

still must maintain a overall length of than twenty-six inches.
an overall legnth of more than



Correcting , Thanks. I did this in a rush 'cause I was about to leave
copy and pasting + trying to add in my part =
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:31:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 8:36:58 PM EST by Skammy]

Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Regarding the ZM weapons grip, how do you know it's legal, is there a DOJ letter saying so?

.

Page 4 (.pdf file)

The quote below the ZM grip is from the letter.. and while it doesn't say if it is the ZM grip in the letter it still fits the bill as a grip that "...allows only for the thumb and not all fingers, to grasp the device."
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:27:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Skammy:

Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Regarding the ZM weapons grip, how do you know it's legal, is there a DOJ letter saying so?

.

Page 4 (.pdf file)

The quote below the ZM grip is from the letter.. and while it doesn't say if it is the ZM grip in the letter it still fits the bill as a grip that "...allows only for the thumb and not all fingers, to grasp the device."



Thanks,

Althought I couldn't find an image of a Barrett 82A1 thumbhold grip, the ZM grip does sound similar, allowing a thumb grip without a finger grip. So now I can build an 80% with all the goodies, and by using a ZM grip, it's not an "AW".
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:57:14 AM EST
Does anyone have a link or photo of a Barrett 82A1 thumbhold grip? I need a photo for comparison to the ZM. I would like a DOJ approval on the ZM grip.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 1:13:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Does anyone have a link or photo of a Barrett 82A1 thumbhold grip? I need a photo for comparison to the ZM. I would like a DOJ approval on the ZM grip.



You could try contacting the attorney who wrote the letter possibly..?
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