figures

we will have to see how it plays out. i guess it's back to my fab10

from calguns


IMPORTANT NOTICE
California Department of Justice



The Department of Justice (hereafter the Department@) has received numerous contacts from the public and firearms industry personnel regarding the legality of various AR-15/AK 47 "series" style firearms that have not yet been identified as Aseries@ assault weapons by the Department. The Department is also aware of the recent high volume of sales of these firearms.
The Department has the statutory authority to identify Aseries@ assault weapons. In 2000, the California Supreme Court upheld that authority in Kasler v. Lockyer (2000) 23 Cal. 4th 472. The Department updated the list of "series" weapons in 2000 (as ACategory 2@ assault weapons), shortly after the Kasler decision. The registration period for Category 2 weapons ended on December 31, 2000.
The California Supreme Court reiterated in 2003 that Athe Attorney General has the authority to determine that certain semiautomatic firearms are assault weapons by simply identifying them as such in the list published by the Attorney General in the California Code of RegulationsYtwo types of firearms defined in section 12276 by the use of the term series, namely the AK-47 series and the Colt AR-15 series.@ Harrott v. County of Kings (2003) 25 Cal. 4th 1138, 1155.
Accordingly, the Department is currently in the process of identifying those firearms in the state which are variations, with minor differences, of AR-15/AK 47 "series" weapons. Once this process is complete, the Department will promulgate a list and file it with the Secretary of State=s office. Concurrently, the Department will begin updating the Assault Weapon Identification Guide which is currently available via the Department=s web-site at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/index.html. Once the list of newly identified Aseries@ weapons is filed with the Secretary of State, citizens who possess those weapons will have 90 days to register them with the Department of Justice.

Newly identified Aseries@ weapons cannot legally have the features listed in Penal Code 12276.1 when they are registered. Those features cannot legally be added after the firearms are registered as assault weapons. The Penal Code 12276.1 features have been banned since January 1, 2000, when SB 23 went into effect. The public was notified of the prohibition on the specified features many years ago.

IMPORTANT NOTICE
Page Two

The registration period for assault weapons with those characteristics (Category 3 assault weapons) ended on December 31, 2000. Because non-"series" assault weapons with 12276.1 features may not be offered for sale, manufactured, imported, or possessed in California, it follows that newly registered "series" weapons may not have the features listed in Penal Code 12276.1, either.
The prohibition on the features listed in Penal Code section 12276.1 is consistent with current DOJ policy that named Aseries@ weapons are illegal, unless registered, regardless of whether they have the 12276.1 features. It is also consistent with the intent of the California state legislature to ban assault weapons, expressed in 1991 when Penal Code 12276(f) was enacted.
This section is declaratory of existing law, as amended, and a clarification of the law and the Legislature=s intent which bans the weapons enumerated in this section, the weapons included in Section 12276.5, and any other models which are only minor variations of those weapons with minor differences, regardless of the manufacturer [emphasis added].
It should be noted that individuals who timely registered ACategory 1@ and ACategory 2@ assault weapons were allowed to keep or add the 12276.1 features on their firearms. Those generic features were not illegal during the registration period for Category 1 assault weapons. In August of 2000, when the Department identified the Category 2 Aseries@ weapons, it was legal to register weapons with those characteristics as Category 3 assault weapons. Firearms with those features could no longer be registered as of January 1, 2001. Therefore, newly identified Aseries@ (Category 4) weapons likewise cannot have those features.

Registrants of newly identified series weapons cannot legally add Penal Code section 12276.1 features to those firearms. The Department intends to enforce this restriction through the assault weapon registration process. Registration acknowledgment letters will include an admonition to registrants that adding prohibited features to newly registered assault weapons will invalidate registration. The basis for valid registration will rest solely on the fact that the Department identifies the receivers for these firearms as variations, with minor differences, of already controlled AR-15/AK 47 Aseries@ weapons. All additional features of the newly identified "series" weapons must conform with current California law.

Firearm manufacturers, wholesalers and dealers who misinform the public about the ability to legally add prohibited features to these newly listed firearms risk criminal prosecution. They could also face civil penalties of up to $2,500 per violation under the state=s Unfair Practices Act (California Business & Professions Code section 17000 et seq.).

This information will be distributed to criminal justice agencies throughout the state, as well as to firearm dealers listed on the Department's Centralized List, via the formal Information Bulletin process.



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain
confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the
use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use
or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
communication.

Quoted: Flee to America.

Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive without California.  

They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones.

They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country.

They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs.

They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Flee to America. Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive with California.   They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones. They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country. They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs. They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery. not me. i hate it here. but make too much money to leave.

You do realize that less money will buy you more in most of the country.

Registrants of newly identified series weapons cannot legally add Penal Code section 12276.1 features to those firearms. The Department intends to enforce this restriction through the assault weapon registration process. Registration acknowledgment letters will include an admonition to registrants that adding prohibited features to newly registered assault weapons will invalidate registration.

Well that just sucks, you can own a newly registered lower, but you cant do squat with it.

Kharn

Let me one of the many to say....



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Oh, don't move.  Please. Fight the good fight and all that.  Yeah.

That place is for the ghey.

Max

You just know there's a secret bet between CA and NJ dems as to which groups will take away all the guns first.

It's incredible!  We are going to have the "assault weapons" we always wanted, but we can't assemble them in to assault weapons!  

Quoted: Nevada ain't bad.

As long as you don't mind wearing oven mitts to open your car door.

Shitty

It's official now, check the DoJ site.

Quoted: Quoted: Flee to America. Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive without California.   They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones. They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country. They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs. They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery.

I think this is twice in a month I've agreed with you on something.......there appears to be something horribly amiss in the universe

Flee to America.

Bill Lockyer what a chump

Quoted: Quoted: Flee to America. Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive with California.   They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones. They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country. They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs. They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery.

not me. i hate it here. but make too much money to leave.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Flee to America. Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive with California.   They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones. They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country. They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs. They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery. not me. i hate it here. but make too much money to leave.

That is your price then?

Quoted: Exactly how much longer until Kalifornia slips northward and seperates from the continental United States?

Not soon enough.

For those in other states: The good people of CA are getting the govt they voted for. If thats what they want then so be it. If they hate the freedoms this country was founded on then let them wallow in the cesspool of their choosing.

Quoted: Quoted: Nevada ain't bad. As long as you don't mind wearing oven mitts to open your car door.

isn't Lake Tahoe in Nevada? (well, and California)


on a related note, fuck Nevada. Bunch of no reciprocity having bastards. I'm going to Vegas and can't bring any guns, it pisses me off that the majority of states bordering AZ don't have reciprocity

If we gave Kalifornia back to Mexico, do you think the illegals will stop coming to the other 49 states?


Vulcan94

I told you guys they would pull something like this. It really sucks though.

I have $50 for any of your never legal to build AR lowers, email me

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Flee to America. Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive with California.   They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones. They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country. They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs. They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery. not me. i hate it here. but make too much money to leave. That is your price then?

no the weather kicks ass too. i was up in hillborough oregon two weks ago looking at houses but the rain got to me. my wife and i are gettin the f out as soon as we can find a place with nice weather and a decent job market. maybe utah but the snow would get old. louisanna, to muggy. north carolina, shitty weather too. we will keep looking.
and yes again. this state sucks.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Flee to America. Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive without California.   They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones. They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country. They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs. They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery. I think this is twice in a month I've agreed with you on something.......there appears to be something horribly amiss in the universe

There must be a tear in the space/time continuim.

Quoted: on a related note, fuck Nevada. Bunch of no reciprocity having bastards. I'm going to Vegas and can't bring any guns, it pisses me off that the majority of states bordering AZ don't have reciprocity

Non-Resident CCW is available there I believe.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Flee to America. Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive with California.   They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones. They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country. They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs. They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery. not me. i hate it here. but make too much money to leave. That is your price then? no the weather kicks ass too. i was up in hillborough oregon two weks ago looking at houses but the rain got to me. my wife and i are gettin the f out as soon as we can find a place with nice weather and a decent job market. maybe utah but the snow would get old. louisanna, to muggy. north carolina, shitty weather too. we will keep looking. and yes again. this state sucks.

Nevada ain't bad.

Told ya so....

Exactly how much longer until Kalifornia slips northward and seperates from the continental United States?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Flee to America. Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive with California.   They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones. They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country. They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs. They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery. not me. i hate it here. but make too much money to leave. That is your price then? no the weather kicks ass too. i was up in hillborough oregon two weks ago looking at houses but the rain got to me. my wife and i are gettin the f out as soon as we can find a place with nice weather and a decent job market. maybe utah but the snow would get old. louisanna, to muggy. north carolina, shitty weather too. we will keep looking. and yes again. this state sucks.

Well I wish you luck then!

Sorry to hear that CA memebers.  That state is not turning around any time soon if ever...

Just one of the many reasons that I punched out of there last year. Haven't missed the place yet.  Looking forward to going shooting out in the desert tomorrow 20 minutes from the house.  No more locking the Glock in a case with the ammo seperate, locking the AR up to transport it to the range where I get hassled by the range nazis wanting to know if I have my registration for my EBR (papuhs puhleez).  Loaded Glock goes on my hip, AR goes in the back and off I go to the desert to plink.  I like it here!

edited cause a phantom troll icon appeared in my post!  

This is lockyerd totally overstepping his bounds.  There is no legal way for him to do this -- he simply does not have the authority to make laws.  The courts will eventually throw this crap out.  It will take years and lots of lawyer$$

     I think lockyer is an asshole.

Originally posted by user bwiese on calguns.net

The Department has the statutory authority to identify "series" assault weapons. In 2000, the California Supreme Court upheld that authority in Kasler v. Lockyer (2000) 23 Cal. 4th 472. The Department updated the list of "series" weapons in 2000 (as Category 2 assault weapons), shortly after the Kasler decision. The registration period for Category 2 weapons ended on December 31, 2000.

Incorrect. Reg period for Cat 2 (AR/AK) guns ended Jan 22, 2001.

The California Supreme Court reiterated in 2003 that the Attorney General has the authority to determine that certain semiautomatic firearms are assault weapons by simply identifying them as such in the list published by the Attorney General in the California Code of RegulationsYtwo types of firearms defined in section 12276 by the use of the term series, namely the AK-47 series and the Colt AR-15 series.@ Harrott v. County of Kings (2003) 25 Cal. 4th 1138, 1155.

Harrott's a 2001 decision. (A transcription typo??)

Accordingly, the Department is currently in the process of identifying those firearms in the state which are variations, with minor differences, of AR15/AK47 series weapons. Once this process is complete, the Department will promulgate a list and file it with the Secretary of State's office.

Concurrently, the Department will begin updating the Assault Weapon Identification Guide which is currently available via the Departments website at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/index.html. Once the list of newly identified "series" weapons is filed with the Secretary of State, citizens who possess those weapons will have 90 days to register them with the Department of Justice.

So far, so good.

Newly identified "series" weapons cannot legally have the features listed in Penal Code 12276.1 when they are registered. Those features cannot legally be added after the firearms are registered as assault weapons. The Penal Code 12276.1 features have been banned since Jan 1, 2000, when SB23 went into effect. The public was notified of the prohibition on the specified features many years ago.

True, they can't have the features when registered - or, rather before the registration period begins. 12280(g) protects from charges of possession of ANY unregistered assault weapon during the registration window.

After registration, there's no separate law banning characteristics being added. There's no 'path' to an assault weapon encoded into its assault weapons status that restricts it, nor law reflecting different categories.

There's no PC codifying dependency on special characteristics into an AW reg. The law merely says that when a gun's declared an AW, a reg period must open, and that DOJ can collect necesary information, and information for its own admin purposes.

It merely is, or is not, registered. When declared as an AW and registered as such, reg is not conditional upon the type of assault weapon or its feature set. The registration allows it to be possessed/transported within 12280 AW strictures (locked up, unloaded, specific authorized destination. There are simply no charges of possession of a 'registered assault weapon that has too many characteristic features'.

Charges of illegal manufacture of an assault weapon involve the crossing of the 'AW boundary' - primarily by adding SB23 characteristic features to a firearm that is not a registered AW. The DOJ has crossed that AW boundary themselves by opening a registration window and completing and returning registration papers to owners of newly-declared AWs.

If legislative intent were to ban features from being added to declared AWs, this would have to be specifically codified into law. CA AW law is so detailed and has been revised so many times that the only legislative intent that can further be inferred is that administrative authority was granted to the DOJ to identify new AW members, and to trigger a reg period and process regs.

If the legislature wants newly-declared AWs to not have characteristic features, that must be specifically codified.

Primary legislative intent was for the DOJ to do its job maintaining & updating the list of assault weapons in California. If the DOJ were so focused on legislative intent, it would've complied with its mandate to maintain and frequently update the list with banned items as soon as they are identified. Since the DOJ has essentially abrogated their authority to do this for the last 5+ years, we do not have to fall back to a far more tortured extraction of legislative intent.

The registration period for assault weapons with those characteristics (Category 3 assault weapons) ended on Dec. 31, 2000. Because non-"series" assault weapons with 12276.1 features may not be offered for sale, manufactured, imported, or possessed in California, it follows that newly registered "series" weapons may not have the features listed in Penal Code 12276.1, either.

It does not follow. This masive logical jump requires existence of a 2nd tier, a 2nd categorization, of assault weapons. There are simply no charges possible of "having a registered AW with too many evil features". There is thus no Penal Code basis for your assertion.

The prohibition on the features listed in Penal Code section 12276.1 is consistent with current DOJ policy that named "series" weapons are illegal, unless registered, regardless of whether they have the 12276.1 features.

DOJ policy is not law. Regulations must be based upon the penal code. Furthermore, the assertion in this statement here, "illegal, unless registered, regardless of whether they have the 12276.1 features" give the lie to your assertions: that is, features are irrelevant after registration.


It is also consistent with the intent of the California state legislature to ban assault weapons, expressed in 1991 when Penal Code 12276(f) was enacted.

"This section is declaratory of existing law, as amended, and a clarification of the law and the Legislature's intent which bans the weapons enumerated in this section, the weapons included in Section 12276.5, and any other models which are only minor variations of those weapons with minor differences, regardless of the manufacturer [emphasis added]."

This is 1991 law. For this to be in force it would require nullification of the clarifiying 2001 Harrott decision - Harrott said make and model must be specifically listed before it can be considered an AW (this is separate from features ban).

Once it's a registered AW because of a 'naming trigger', it crosses the line and is an AW no matter what. There are no criminal charges codified for various 'shades of evilness' on an assault weapon: it is, or is not, an AW.

It should be noted that individuals who timely registered Category 1 and Category 2 assault weapons were allowed to keep or add the 12276.1 features on their firearms.

Big issues here. For you to hold the assertion that features additions are banned on registered AWs means you must also hold registrants from 1/1/01 -1/22/01 to the same strictures, which you are not.

The reg window for AR/AK series weapons ended Jan 22, 2001. The registration window for 'by features' weapons ended Dec 31, 2000. From Jan 1 2001 to Jan 22, 2001. 12280(g) protected against possession of an unreg'd AW from 1/1/00 - 12/31/00 for SB23, and from 1/1/01-1/22/01 for a "looks like an AR/AK" violation (overturned by Harrott).

Those generic features were not illegal during the registration period for Category 1 assault weapons. In Aug. of 2000, when the Department identified the Category 2 'series' weapons, it was legal to register weapons with those characteristics as Category 3 assault weapons. Firearms with those features could no longer be registered as of Jan 1, 2001. Therefore, newly identified 'series' (Category 4) weapons likewise cannot have those features.

Big issues here. For you to hold the assertion that features additions are banned on registered AWs means you must also hold registrants from 1/1/01 -1/22/01 to the same strictures, which you are not.

The reg window for AR/AK series weapons ended Jan 22, 2001. The registration window for 'by features' weapons ended Dec 31, 2000. From Jan 1 2001 to Jan 22, 2001. 12280(g) protected against possession of an unreg'd AW from 1/1/00 - 12/31/00 for SB23, and from 1/1/01-1/22/01 for a "looks like an AR/AK" violation (overturned by Harrott).

Those generic features were not illegal during the registration period for Category 1 assault weapons. In Aug. of 2000, when the Department identified the Category 2 'series' weapons, it was legal to register weapons with those characteristics as Category 3 assault weapons. Firearms with those features could no longer be registered as of Jan 1, 2001. Therefore, newly identified 'series' (Category 4) weapons likewise cannot have those features.

INCORRECT... You have not addressed the 1/1/01 - 1/22/01 registration gap here. Kasler registrations ended 1/22/01, not 12/31/00.

Registrants of newly identified series weapons cannot legally add Penal Code section 12276.1 features to those firearms. The Department intends to enforce this restriction through the assault weapon registration process. Registration acknowledgment letters will include an admonition to registrants that adding prohibited features to newly registered assault weapons will invalidate registration. The basis for valid registration will rest solely on the fact that the Department identifies the receivers for these firearms as variations, with minor differences, of already controlled AR-15/AK 47 "series" weapons. All additional features of the newly identified "series" weapons must conform with current California law.

You have not addressed the 1/1/01 - 1/22/01 registration gap here. Kasler registrations ended 1/22/01, not 12/31/00.

Registrants of newly identified series weapons cannot legally add Penal Code section 12276.1 features to those firearms. The Department intends to enforce this restriction through the assault weapon registration process. Registration acknowledgment letters will include an admonition to registrants that adding prohibited features to newly registered assault weapons will invalidate registration. The basis for valid registration will rest solely on the fact that the Department identifies the receivers for these firearms as variations, with minor differences, of already controlled AR-15/AK 47 "series" weapons. All additional features of the newly identified "series" weapons must conform with current California law.

The DOJ has just 'made new law' doing this unless you only mean that at time of registration this is prohibited. Because after registration is received by the owner of the newly-declared AW, the lack of tiers or groups or paths to assault weapons status are irrelevant.

Damn . That sucks . Best of luck gang .

I didn't expect anyting differet.  However, I believe this can be legitimately challenged through th Harrot decision.  Just because this is DOJ's position, it doesn't mean they are right. It will be up to a court to decide.

Quoted: Sorry to hear that CA memebers.  That state is not turning around any time soon if ever... Just one of the many reasons that I punched out of there last year. Haven't missed the place yet.  Looking forward to going shooting out in the desert tomorrow 20 minutes from the house.  No more locking the Glock in a case with the ammo seperate, locking the AR up to transport it to the range

Me either.  Glock goes on my hip and AR goes in a soft case in the trunk. You only need a locking case for your AR if your vehicle doesnt have a trunk.

where I get hassled by the range nazis wanting to know if I have my registration for my EBR (papuhs puhleez).

Never had that happen in many years of shooting AR's on Cali state and BLM land.

Quoted: Oh, don't move.  Please. Fight the good fight and all that.  Yeah.

F you, man.

You know where all this shit comes from? THREE PLACES. SAN FRANCISCO, ALAMEDA COUNTY (OAKLAND AND BERKELEY) AND LA COUNTY. Think I'm making it up? Look at the election results from last November's election. Those three counties all vote upwards of 80% democrat / socialist / communist (SF's new gay marriage mayor, the democrat, was the "conservative" one, as opposed to the guy from the Socialist party who almost beat him). The rest of us are a hell of a lot more conservative, or at least middle-of-the-road and among other things would prefer to keep our guns. Because of those three counties, every damn thing in this state goes 55/45. If those 3 were gone, it'd be 55/45 the other direction.

Fuck the DOJ. I'm sick of this twisted ass crap.  These fuckers are worse than a bunch of little babies.

Quoted: Quoted: Oh, don't move.  Please. Fight the good fight and all that.  Yeah. F you, man. You know where all this shit comes from? THREE PLACES. SAN FRANCISCO, ALAMEDA COUNTY (OAKLAND AND BERKELEY) AND LA COUNTY. Think I'm making it up? Look at the election results from last November's election. Those three counties all vote upwards of 80% democrat / socialist / communist (SF's new gay marriage mayor, the democrat, was the "conservative" one, as opposed to the guy from the Socialist party who almost beat him). The rest of us are a hell of a lot more conservative, or at least middle-of-the-road and among other things would prefer to keep our guns. Because of those three counties, every damn thing in this state goes 55/45. If those 3 were gone, it'd be 55/45 the other direction.

But, they are not gone.  They are there.

It doesn't matter how conservative the rest of you are, they are the ones calling the shots, shots that will eventually take your guns.

Quoted: Quoted: Sorry to hear that CA memebers.  That state is not turning around any time soon if ever... Just one of the many reasons that I punched out of there last year. Haven't missed the place yet.  Looking forward to going shooting out in the desert tomorrow 20 minutes from the house.  No more locking the Glock in a case with the ammo seperate, locking the AR up to transport it to the range Me either.  Glock goes on my hip and AR goes in a soft case in the trunk. You only need a locking case for your AR if your vehicle doesnt have a trunk. where I get hassled by the range nazis wanting to know if I have my registration for my EBR (papuhs puhleez). Never had that happen in many years of shooting AR's on Cali state and BLM land.

Of course you haven't been hassled, you have your tin star on your belt. This is not meant as a slur against LEOs, just pointing out that you'll be treated different than the average Californian.

Do you thinik maybe this time we can get every gun owner in Ca to vote the bums out, write letters, do something??

Every year more rights are taken away and every year I hear about how the DOJ sucks, the AG sucks, the Governator sucks, San Fransicko sucks, etc.

We can blame no one but ourselves for letting our rights get eroded piece by piece.  By the looks of the responses to this thread every gun owner in the other 49 states is tired of our listening to us bitch about our situation and is tired of being more interested in our rights than we are.

Maybe we deserve the situation we are in.  We sure aren't doing enough to stop it...

Quoted: Do you thinik maybe this time we can get every gun owner in Ca to vote the bums out, write letters, do something?? Every year more rights are taken away and every year I hear about how the DOJ sucks, the AG sucks, the Governator sucks, San Fransicko sucks, etc. We can blame no one but ourselves for letting our rights get eroded piece by piece.  By the looks of the responses to this thread every gun owner in the other 49 states is tired of our listening to us bitch about our situation and is tired of being more interested in our rights than we are. Maybe we deserve the situation we are in.  We sure aren't doing enough to stop it...

Truer words were never spoken.

You know, you out-of-staters sure are right. You shouldn't ever face a problem. Turn tail and run like a pussy, that's the spirit!

Don't you have anything better to do that rub shit into other gun owners' faces? Pathetic.

Quoted: Fuck the DOJ. I'm sick of this twisted ass crap.

Many of us have been telling you this was a strong possibility for over a month.  If you bought one just build a FABforgery.  If you bought a bunch, well that was an expensive gamble.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sorry to hear that CA memebers.  That state is not turning around any time soon if ever... Just one of the many reasons that I punched out of there last year. Haven't missed the place yet.  Looking forward to going shooting out in the desert tomorrow 20 minutes from the house.  No more locking the Glock in a case with the ammo seperate, locking the AR up to transport it to the range Me either.  Glock goes on my hip and AR goes in a soft case in the trunk. You only need a locking case for your AR if your vehicle doesnt have a trunk. where I get hassled by the range nazis wanting to know if I have my registration for my EBR (papuhs puhleez). Never had that happen in many years of shooting AR's on Cali state and BLM land. Of course you haven't been hassled, you have your tin star on your belt. This is not meant as a slur against LEOs, just pointing out that you'll be treated different than the average Californian.

When i'm off duty the AW transport laws are the same for me as anyone else.  As for the CCW issue, my wife and most of my shooting buddies have CCW's.  Not because they know me.  But because they didnt buy into the kool-aid line of thought that its impossible to get a CCW permit in Cali. They applied and got their permits, in spite of the internet experts telling them its impossible.

this thread  is stupid.  

I live in crappyfornia, and its laws are definatly that.  crappy.  

I would bet that NO ONE on this site voted for anyone who made these stupid laws.  The people here are  part of the good people in this state.  I don't know why out of staters come in here and try to blame us for the crappy laws.  The people that do this, are about as stupid as the people making these laws to begin with.  

How do you expect to change this?  civil disobediance?  It happens all the time, and you end up in jail.  We don't have the numbers to do things any other way.  All we can do is vote and thus we get screwed because we are outnumbered by idiots.  

And to the guy that made the comment about us wallowing in a cesspool of our choosing, that is the stupidest thing I've heard since they said that Arnold was a repulican.   The only people that are wallowing are GUN OWNERS THAT DID NOT VOTE FOR THIS.  Everyone one else, (demoncraps, soccer moms ect) absolutely love it here.

Maybe some out of staters can help out here?  This retarded state vs state rivalry is just plain retarded.  

BTW, I love texas, but the people that worship it are retarded.  They have a shitload of problems there too.  

Quoted: Told ya so....

You and me both bro.

Depending on what is actually on the list when it comes out, it won't surprise me to see this taken to court.

Of course, when the DOJ updates the list....it might not look any different than it does now. And then eveyone who bought new lowers will still be in the same position they are now, with the exception of with a non-listed lower they can have all the evil features except a pistol grip OR a detachable mag.

Quoted: Quoted: Told ya so.... You and me both bro. Depending on what is actually on the list when it comes out, it won't surprise me to see this taken to court.

I certainly do not plan to be the test case.  I'm giving my noban lower to my dad as a gift, out of state, prior to the registration period. I'll help him assemble it as a little father son project.

Quoted: Quoted: Flee to America. Watch it!  The California gang will be along shortly to chastise you for suggesting that.  They will tell you how the rest of the country could not survive without California.   They will explain to you that you should be fleeing the country due to the existance of Federal gun laws, nevermind that the Fed gun laws are nowhere near as draconian as the California ones. They will remind you that the California economy is larger than some countries and they do it all on their own without any help for the rest of the country. They will tell you how many states are a drain on great states such as theirs. They will never tell you that California is a lost cause that apparently just keeps getting worse with no hope of recovery.

Yeah, cowards ALWAYS run away screaming that "California is a lost cause" because they have not the gastrointestinal fortitude to fight. Flippin pussies.

Quoted: When i'm off duty the AW transport laws are the same for me as anyone else.  As for the CCW issue, my wife and most of my shooting buddies have CCW's.  Not because they know me.  But because they didnt buy into the kool-aid line of thought that its impossible to get a CCW permit in Cali. They applied and got their permits, in spite of the internet experts telling them its impossible.

It depends on what city/ county you live in. Some counties in Kali are almost shall issue, other counties isue almost none.

This whole thing is far from over.  The DOJ is the state and as such they have the upper hand, they're not just going to give up without a fight.  Now is when the legal breifs are filed and the attorneys go into the court room.

The DOJ is counting on us giving up and not putting up a fight.  Kasler himself said that, "California gun owners are a very stingy bunch".  Lets prove him wrong if there's need for financial contribution to a class action suit.  I can already assure you that there is litigation in the works for our side On a further note: although most states have Right to Carry CCWs and no AW bans, most states also allow smoking indoors.  I enjoy being able to relax in the bar, lounge, or restaurant of my choice without hacking up second hand smoke.  Did I mention how awesome the coast, Napa Valley, Yosemite National Park, and the Mojave Desert are?  If you think California sucks just because of its gun laws then you need to expand your hobbies... you shouldn't let your entire life revolve around firearms.

All the fags are all you people from other atates that are so happy to see a state from the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA going down to the enemy, FUCK YOU TOO!

Quoted: ..... Now is when the legal breifs are filed and the attorneys go into the court room. ........

File legal briefs for what? Where? For or against who(m)? The DOJ hasn't actually taken any legal action yet. The list has not been ammended yet. May never be.