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Posted: 10/30/2009 6:13:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes, you can own an SBR in Williamson and by going the Trust route you don't have to worry about a sign off. The answers to all of your questions and more can be found here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199928 |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 6:16:29 PM EDT
[#2]
My memory is a bit fuzzy on under 21 NFA ownership. I'm pretty sure you can Form 1 a SBR (manufacture yourself). You can not buy silencers/SBR's/SBS's/AOW's and MG's from dealers, but face to face individual transfers are OK. (I'm sure our 07/SOT's will correct me if I'm wrong here).
I would suggest you get your lower registered on a F1 before you bring the upper into the equation. Once you get your approved F1 back from BATFE then buy and assemble the upper to the lower, not before. Not sure about CLEO signoffs in your area. |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 7:00:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the replies!
so what I got is you can be 18 to manufacture from separate parts, but may not buy a complete from a dealer I need Williamson County CLEO signature on form 1 (luckily I live in Georgetown as stated  )
start on lower, but don't work on upper until/if approved I did not find what exactly the trust method is, is it easier than tracking down a way to meet up with the CLEO and getting him to sign off on my form 1? So far, this looks really easy, just lengthy. Still didn't get weather I need a class 3 license, I'm going to scan the article again, but a yes/no answer will probably help others with the same question and tell me for sure if I interpret the contents of the provided link correctly. (read through and scan of provided links says no to me, just looks like if you're 18, follow procedure, and pay the tax, you're green light on building it as soon as/ if its approved) Thanks |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 7:14:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Using a Trust allows you to set up a legal entity to hold your NFA items without having to get law enforcement approval (or finger prints). The downside is the cost of setting up a trust (if you use a lawyer) and issues if you move out of state. If you can get a CLEO to sign off great, if not it would still allow you to move forward.
As for needing a "Class 3 License"; there is no such animal when it comes to private NFA ownership; you are paying for a tax stamp plain and simple. |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 7:36:04 PM EDT
[#5]
So you tell the government that a lawyer is the one who owns the rifle? I also read about the family corporation, has anyone done this method? my father and I were thinking about starting a company, so this may be beneficial
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Posted: 10/30/2009 7:47:01 PM EDT
[#6]
you must be at least 21 years of age to have any Title II firearm registered to you. It is one of the check boxes listed on the Form. And Wilco SO will not sign off. not sure about the Georgetown chief but the old one did.
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Posted: 10/30/2009 7:50:13 PM EDT
[#7]
No, a Trust is a legal entity just like a Corporation is. However, it requires no annual filings or fees. You can write your own trust by copying others or using software, but the "safer" way is to have a lawyer; there are multiple threads in the Class 3 section covering the topic.
I personally used a Trust, it is a single fee to get the document created and you are done; no other gov maintenance will be required unless I want to change beneficiaries. I have also recently formed my own company; an LLC costs $300 in Texas to form and now I have the fun of filing with various agencies on a regular basis. |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 7:59:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
you must be at least 21 years of age to have any Title II firearm registered to you. It is one of the check boxes listed on the Form. And Wilco SO will not sign off. not sure about the Georgetown chief but the old one did. I'm sorry, but your wrong. I'm 19, and built my SBR when I was 18. And I did go the trust route, didn't have a single problem. No send back or phone call even. |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 8:20:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Quoted: you must be at least 21 years of age to have any Title II firearm registered to you. It is one of the check boxes listed on the Form. And Wilco SO will not sign off. not sure about the Georgetown chief but the old one did. I'm sorry, but your wrong. I'm 19, and built my SBR when I was 18. And I did go the trust route, didn't have a single problem. No send back or phone call even. Going back and reading, it's the GCA that prevents NFA TRANSFER from a SOT to an individual. Making your own (F1) silencer or SBS, SBR is fine as well as in state individual to individual transfers. |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 8:24:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: As for needing a "Class 3 License"; there is no such animal when it comes to private NFA ownership; you are paying for a tax stamp plain and simple. This^ You are paying a one time excise tax to the govt. for, in the OP's case, manufacture and registration of a NFA firearm. In other cases (F4) it's for transfer of a NFA registered firearm. |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 9:07:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Cool, the clouds are clearing! I think I understand now, so you go to a lawyer, request the trust method documents, go through the process/pay the fee, and its done? Which is when you would proceed to get your finger prints done, and get 2 passport pictures and send it off with a $200 check. You are only registering the lower receiver on the form right, i.e. the lower is now registered as an SBR and you are free to build the actual SBR onto it with the upper/barrel/etc... having been purchased once you receive the good news?
Also, can you just buy a short barrel? every site says NFA rules apply, so does that mean you have to have it sent to a gun store? Sorry about the noob questions, but I'm pretty new to real guns, I've been airsofting (serious thousand dollar gun version  not backyard wars) and got too comfortable with "just buying" stuff!
Thanks for helping me with the baby steps 
** I also hear that you have to engrave your name and city into the receiver... is that the case with a pre built lower? |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 9:33:44 PM EDT
[#12]
In a nutshell.
1) get CLEO signoff or form trust. 2) Fill out Form 5320.10 (F1) Pasport photos/prints are solely dependent on trust or CLEO signoff. You can't photograph or fingerprint a trust. 3) submit in duplicate Form 1, using both sides of paper, declaration of trust and schedule 'A'. (a.) 1 check or MO made out to BATFE for $200 (b.) completed certificate of compliance (citizenship form) 4) mail entire packet to BATFE. 5) wait 6) wait 7) wait 8) recieve approved form 1 from DOJ, buy upper, assemble. 9) tweek upper so it runs 10) ask ARFCOM how to get SBR to run right 11) tweek some more 12) ask more questions 13) finally get it running. Helpful links : http://www.titleii.com/TitleII.com/Forms.html ETA: yes, lower will need to be engraved with your name (cleo signoff) or trust name, city and state. |
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Posted: 10/30/2009 9:40:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
you must be at least 21 years of age to have any Title II firearm registered to you. It is one of the check boxes listed on the Form. And Wilco SO will not sign off. not sure about the Georgetown chief but the old one did. I'm sorry, but your wrong. I'm 19, and built my SBR when I was 18. And I did go the trust route, didn't have a single problem. No send back or phone call even. interesting. on question 7d on the Form 1 it asks you if you are under 21 years of age. i would assume checking "Yes" to any one of those questions as part of Question 7 are automatic disqualifiers. perhaps because it was set up as a trust (not an individual) you didn't have to deal with being under 21? otherwise why would they ask such a question? |
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Posted: 10/31/2009 12:04:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Is it possible in the first place? I have my original post here ( http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=466624 ) but basically, I'm planning on buying an upper/lower from LaRue and my thought process is register the lower as an SBR since its the part with the serial # and build it once/if approved. Has anyone built an SBR in Williamson County, or more accurately Georgetown is where I am? I am 18 so if I need to be 21, feel free to chime in and tell me before I start really working on this thing. I guess a tl;dr version is 1.Can you even own an SBR in Williamson? 2.How do you go about registering it? Buy lower and register or build entirely then register, or something else? 3.How old do you have to be to build an SBR? 4.Do you need a Class 3 weapon license? minimum age for those? Thanks 1. Not sure, call the office of the chief and ask them if the chief will sign off for a SBR. Do the same for the Sheriff's office. I'm sure someone else here will know this answer. 2. Buy the lower, submit paper work, wait, receive approved paper work, engrave lower, assemble SBR 3. To build an SBR (Form 1) you only need to be 18 (you have to be 21 to recieve a SBR FROM A DEALER). Remember that at 18 a stripped lower cannot be transfered to you as a title 1 gun (just like you can't buy a pistol); someone must give it to you as a gift or you must buy it from an individual who already owns it. 4. There is no such thing as a federal class 3 weapons license, Texas does not have a class 3 weapons license either. Just carry a COPY of your approved Form 1 with your SBR. I hope this helps. |
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Posted: 10/31/2009 12:06:18 AM EDT
[#15]
There is no language in USC Title 26 ch 53 regarding an age penalty( I had to go look again, needed a refresher). He's 18 and of legal age to own a rifle. He is not buying a title II rifle by transfer, he is applying to make and register a rifle he already owns.
The trust issue is really not an issue as a 'person' can be a individual or any number of other legal entities. Why that <21 question is there, I have no idea. |
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Posted: 10/31/2009 5:54:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Williamson County Sheriff will sign off for SBR and does so fairly quickly I'd go with him. Not sure about the age thing though you probably need to be 21 if I were him I'd probably feel hesitant about signing for an 18 year old....
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Posted: 10/31/2009 7:43:50 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
In a nutshell. 1) get CLEO signoff or form trust. 2) Fill out Form 5320.10 (F1) Pasport photos/prints are solely dependent on trust or CLEO signoff. You can't photograph or fingerprint a trust. 3) submit in duplicate Form 1, using both sides of paper, declaration of trust and schedule 'A'. (a.) 1 check or MO made out to BATFE for $200 (b.) completed certificate of compliance (citizenship form) 4) mail entire packet to BATFE. 5) wait 6) wait 7) wait 8) recieve approved form 1 from DOJ, buy upper, assemble. 9) tweek upper so it runs 10) ask ARFCOM how to get SBR to run right 11) tweek some more 12) ask more questions 13) finally get it running.
Helpful links : http://www.titleii.com/TitleII.com/Forms.html ETA: yes, lower will need to be engraved with your name (cleo signoff) or trust name, city and state. That's about right. I "finished" mine in April, and just got it running right yesterday. I think
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Posted: 10/31/2009 7:18:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Williamson County Sheriff will sign off for SBR and does so fairly quickly I'd go with him. Not sure about the age thing though you probably need to be 21 if I were him I'd probably feel hesitant about signing for an 18 year old.... good he must have changed his tune. before he would only sign SBR/SBS for off duty law enforcement. would not sign off on silencers or machine guns for anybody. |
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Posted: 10/31/2009 8:57:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Alright, I think I have a plan, would you it be easier to do this with my LMT piston 16 since I wanted to go with a 12" in barrel in it eventually? Like register my LMT lower that came with my gun as the SBR and since it has the quick change barrel, all I'd have to do is put on the 12" barrel once approved?
Other than that, the way I understand this (a.k.a the to do list in easy terms) 1)print Form 1 and fill it out as far as you can get by yourself 2)since I'd like to go the trust route, go to lawyer and explain what you're wanting to do and go through the steps to get that done 3)Don't need finger prints/Passport pictures since I went the trust route 4)mail it in 5)get stamp after 3-4 month wait 6)buy 12" barrel and install 7)engrave [LAWYER NAME] GEORGETOWN, TEXAS into blank side of lower 8)
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:38:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Williamson County Sheriff will sign off for SBR and does so fairly quickly I'd go with him. Not sure about the age thing though you probably need to be 21 if I were him I'd probably feel hesitant about signing for an 18 year old.... good he must have changed his tune. before he would only sign SBR/SBS for off duty law enforcement. would not sign off on silencers or machine guns for anybody. I think you are correct on suppressors and machine guns but he did sign for me on an SBR AR lower turn around time was on the order of a week on the SBR sign off. I am not LEO. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:42:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
[LAWYER NAME] GEORGETOWN, TEXAS into blank side of lower 8) I believe the whole name of the trust is what is engraved on the lower, not the lawyer's name. So make sure the name of your trust is pretty short. Something like "reddeth trust" |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:43:25 AM EDT
[#22]
I think it is easier to get it engraved before the stamp is approved if you are going to ship it off for engraving. Less loss if it were to get lost/stolen during shipping and it can go to any engraver with a normal FFL. I recommend Ident Engraving up near Dallas they did a nice job.
If you go the trust route sc-texas in houston does a good job. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 4:47:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I think it is easier to get it engraved before the stamp is approved if you are going to ship it off for engraving. Less loss if it were to get lost/stolen during shipping and it can go to any engraver with a normal FFL. I recommend Ident Engraving up near Dallas they did a nice job. If you go the trust route sc-texas in houston does a good job. +1 for Ident. Did a great Job on my lower |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 6:05:49 AM EDT
[#24]
SC-Texas did my trust. The turnaround was quick and he was reasonable considering that he answers questions after the trust is completed.
Engraving: Kewith Norman in Montgomery and Jason at Ident Marking in Rockwall. Both are reasonable and make it real simple. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 6:58:00 AM EDT
[#25]
You can buy your upper and stripped lower now.
Also buy a pistol buffer tube and build a pistol shoot it for a few weeks and see how you like it. Then start your paperwork engrave and all. When the paperwork comes back in several months buy a colapsable butt stock and. Carbine buffer tube. Doing it this way will let you enjoy it longer. You may find out you like the pistol and don't want to mess with NFA. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 7:22:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Alright, so SC-Texas is the name of the firm? I found his profile on Texas Gun Talk I think, so its the Law office of Sean Cody? which means, the left side of my receiver would then say
LAW OFFICE OF SEAN CODY GEORGETOWN, TEXAS Also, those of you who have gone through him, did you have to do the finger prints and passport pictures? FINALLY  is there a limit to how many you can make in a certain time limit? I want to put a 12" barrel on my LMT Piston 16 Defender 2000 (aka complete rifle with MRP upper and piston system) and since I already have it and the barrel is only $346, it will be cheaper, but I'd also like to do what I originally planned, an MK18 MOD1 clone.
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Posted: 11/1/2009 7:34:09 PM EDT
[#27]
No, the left side of your receiver should say Reddeth Trust, Georgetown, TX
Mine says Doc_Strangelove Trust, Kingwood, TX I was told that I can put as many NFA items in my trust as I want. No fingerprint cards, no Photos and No CLEO signoff with a trust. |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 9:16:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Yeah Sean is the guy http://www.houstonattorney.org/
Other response is correct should be trust name,city, state for engraving. You can get the trust name to just be lastname trust or something short to make engraving easier. |
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Posted: 11/2/2009 9:43:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Oh, I get it! thanks for the clarification, so I'll just order a lower soon after paying off my LMT and do 'em both at the same time?
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