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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:11:30 PM EDT
We should be scheduling another shoot. How about the 18th? That's several weeks away and its a 3 day weekend (for some of us), if that matters.

Ar10er, what would you guesstimate/know to be the center line to base of the scope rings you have on the HK? I'm looking at these quick release rings. The ARMS #18 mount that I put on the M1A is very good quality so I don't see any reason not to go with ARMS rings. Unless of course anyone has another suggestion!!

The #18 mount is not quick detachable, but it sits low enough that you can use the irons if a scope is not mounted. Which is why the QD rings seem like the way to go.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:33:57 PM EDT
I can't do the 18th. :( Have fun. I'll catch you next time.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:00:56 PM EDT
There's a friend's wedding that weekend, but maybe it's on Friday...

Hope to be able to come.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:10:09 PM EDT
18th sounds good for me. or anyday that weekend for that matter as i'll have all 3 days off. Might bring a couple friends too if that's cool.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:24:13 PM EDT
I just threw the 18th out there as a starting point. It's not carved in stone. How about the 19th?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:10:14 PM EDT
Sundays aren't good for me, unfortunately.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:54:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 2:56:41 PM EDT by jollyroger]


18th would work for me. I should have my 1911 and *maybe* another AR by then.

Spiff, does one need a headspace guage to build an AR upper?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:57:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sleepdr:
Sundays aren't good for me, unfortunately.



Your being difficult Doc....
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:15:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:


18th would work for me. I should have my 1911 and *maybe* another AR by then.

Spiff, does one need a headspace guage to build an AR upper?



Yeah, I should have my SP1 clone put together to. And I got the scope for my M1A today!!

Then again, they are just semi auto....

Technically you should use headspace gauges to check for to little and excessive headspace. I religiously used them in the Garand, M1A, Springfield '03 and M1 Carbine as well as the Enfield. But these were older rifles. I have not used any for the AR's that I've built. First because all the parts were brand new, and second because of the fit of the barrel. That is not to say I did not check the brass very closely after shooting them the first time. I also made a dummy cartridge and made sure it wasn't being crushed upon chambering (to little headspace). To do this right you need a reloading tool that measures case overall length (OAL) from the shoulder of the brass (datum line) to the head (where the primer seats).

The rifles above (not the AR) have barrels that screw in and tighten down, the AR's have a pin in the barrel and a corresponding notch in the receiver. So everything aligns like it should. The AR barrel nut just clamps everything down. But thats not to say that you could not get defective parts.

So, technically, yes you should use headspace gauges and check headspace for excessive clearance (can cause the case to separate) and not enough clearance (can cause excessive pressures). But I did not.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:26:34 PM EDT
Ryfter'

I had so much fun with your lawn dart...uh I mean airplane, that I was looking at getting the areobird challenger as a trainer. It has a v tail but is 3 channel, local parts. I found your "easyplane" in kit or RTF, or they even have a RTF predator drone! Anyway, any other shops you recommend?

BTW: Anyone mind taking the lead on getting a Corporate C3 together. I (of course) am in, but want to know all the "catches" before getting in any trouble. I tried googling but didn't get far. I keep going of on tangents....like RC plane forums Priorities, I know.

AR10er? or AZ_GUN_NUT? I nominate you two
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:56:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By luckypunk:
Ryfter'
I had so much fun with your lawn dart...uh I mean airplane



......Oh, uh, sorry Ryfter!! Hey my flight lasted about 15 seconds!! 'Course that includes the nose dive.......



AR10er? or AZ_GUN_NUT? I nominate you two



I second this nomination!!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:53:28 PM EDT
Saturdays are always going to be out for me guys, I work Tues - Sat every week.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:59:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 5:00:25 PM EDT by AZ_Gun_Nut]

Originally Posted By luckypunk:
Ryfter'

I had so much fun with your lawn dart...uh I mean airplane, that I was looking at getting the areobird challenger as a trainer. It has a v tail but is 3 channel, local parts. I found your "easyplane" in kit or RTF, or they even have a RTF predator drone! Anyway, any other shops you recommend?

BTW: Anyone mind taking the lead on getting a Corporate C3 together. I (of course) am in, but want to know all the "catches" before getting in any trouble. I tried googling but didn't get far. I keep going of on tangents....like RC plane forums Priorities, I know.

AR10er? or AZ_GUN_NUT? I nominate you two



No problem, what I suggest we do is pick a night say a Friday if that's good for everyone that wants to get involved and sit down and hash it out. Forming the LLC is pretty cut and dry, it's getting the Manufacturers FFL that will be more challenging. The SOT (Special Occupancy Tax) is super easy. That is the item that allows you to buy and sell class III items by the way. We could just get an 01 FFL (dealers license) and the SOT and just buy sample guns with.. ahem Joey's assistance but with the manufacturers 07 FFL we can make our own and as many as we like for $500 a year.

Anyone play poker? Maybe we could do a poker night and hash it out at the same time?

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:47:07 PM EDT
Nah, I'm out. I just didn't have any fun shooting those full autos.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:51:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HennyBogan:
Nah, I'm out. I just didn't have any fun shooting those full autos.



I'll remember you said that.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:57:14 PM EDT
I'll remember you said that. hock.gif

Hahahahahahah. D'oh! Of course I'm in. Just let me know what the plan is.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:00:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 2:54:55 PM EDT by Ryfter]

Originally Posted By luckypunk:
Ryfter'

I had so much fun with your lawn dart...uh I mean airplane, that I was looking at getting the areobird challenger as a trainer. It has a v tail but is 3 channel, local parts. I found your "easyplane" in kit or RTF, or they even have a RTF predator drone! Anyway, any other shops you recommend?



Those are kind of cheap and easy. I kind of like the Aerobird Freedom, more. The PROBLEM, is that they are kind of throw-away systems. Once you outgrow it, you toss EVERYTHING out, and start over. If you go for a cheap transmitter/receiver, and get a plane like mine, or even a slow stick.

Here is what you will need, to build a plane:
The Plane: Easy Star or Slow Stick(you want THIS one, with the 400 motor)
Battery charger and battery : I would avoid Lipoly batteries until you get better. They have a chance to blow up at times, after a crash. (Cheap Battery Packs
Transmitter: I bought mine used. You can go here: Used radio forum
ESC: Here is one I found I bought one similiear to it used, from this forum : Used power plant forum. Basically, you need a 20 amp ESC. I have 3 planes now, and they all require a 20amp ESC.

If you go with the Slow stick, Hobbytown has a bunch of replacement parts. You can also get the Slow-V fuselage and tail feathers, and make it a V tail, if you want. :-) This page has all the information about a Slow Stick, that you really NEED. :-) What to buy AND how to build it. :-)

Some good forums:
RC Groups
RC Universe
Boise RC

Once you figure out exactly what you want to do, let me know, and I will help you pick out a battery. Figure about $20 for a battery. I also bought the battery charger used. :-) Don't forget to check Ebay. There are SOME good deals there. You will also need servos, but if you buy a new transmitter, you should get 2-4 servos, too... as welll as a receiver. Even used you should get a receiver and a few servos.

BTW, I finally fixed the plane tonight. A little dip in boiling water, a little superglue and a piece of tape later... and it will fly as good as new. I also took out a few more dings that it had picked up in the week. :-)

Pretty Cool Predator kit
Do-it-yourself Delta Wings
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:03:58 PM EDT
Well, this Friday is bad, but next Friday is good. :-)
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:29:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ryfter:
Well, this Friday is bad, but next Friday is good. :-)



Mon thru Wed are bad for me because of school. Any other night is fine. So should we get together on the 10th? We could even get together at Barnes & Nobles and suck down coffee while we BS. Or we can play poker, I'm easy.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:39:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 7:17:34 PM EDT by ar10er]
Ok, I overslept and I am getting ready for work.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:25:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 8:27:01 PM EDT by sleepdr]

Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:

No problem, what I suggest we do is pick a night say a Friday if that's good for everyone that wants to get involved and sit down and hash it out. Forming the LLC is pretty cut and dry, it's getting the Manufacturers FFL that will be more challenging. The SOT (Special Occupancy Tax) is super easy. That is the item that allows you to buy and sell class III items by the way. We could just get an 01 FFL (dealers license) and the SOT and just buy sample guns with.. ahem Joey's assistance but with the manufacturers 07 FFL we can make our own and as many as we like for $500 a year.

Anyone play poker? Maybe we could do a poker night and hash it out at the same time?




Sorry to have missed some of the prelim discussions; any chance I could play, too?
I'm a crummy poker player, but can usually manage to count up the cards using my fingers & toes. With respect to the above, how do you go about having a location zoned appropriately? I'd offer my place of business, but a Catholic hospital would probably not be happy to get a call from the ATF.

Re: shooting days, I'll see if it's possible to change on-call around. As the new guy, I get lots of weekends - 3 in February.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:55:21 PM EDT
Barnes & Noble for coffee??? How about Hooters for beer?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:10:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:12:19 PM EDT
Joey here
I'll do what I can? I would like to stay employed where I'm at.
As far as being part of the LLC. My Money is to thin right now, but in a couple months should be back in the Black.

As far as a day to go out again? Any weekend day is good for me, you know how us city workers are?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:18:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jsandfort:
Barnes & Noble for coffee??? How about Hooters for beer?



Don't they serve coffee at Hooters? Personally I'm not much of an alcohol drinker. Got that out of my system some time (and allot of trouble) ago!!

However I think the consensus is leaning towards poker.....
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:51:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By medicmandan:

Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:
The SOT (Special Occupancy Tax) is super easy. That is the item that allows you to buy and sell class III items by the way. We could just get an 01 FFL (dealers license) and the SOT and just buy sample guns with.. ahem Joey's assistance but with the manufacturers 07 FFL we can make our own and as many as we like for $500 a year.

Anyone play poker? Maybe we could do a poker night and hash it out at the same time?




You would need a demo letter as well if you want to buy samples. The 07 plus SOT puts you in a position so that you can modify existing weapons.



That's why we need Joey's assistance for the demo letters.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:52:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sleepdr:

Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:

No problem, what I suggest we do is pick a night say a Friday if that's good for everyone that wants to get involved and sit down and hash it out. Forming the LLC is pretty cut and dry, it's getting the Manufacturers FFL that will be more challenging. The SOT (Special Occupancy Tax) is super easy. That is the item that allows you to buy and sell class III items by the way. We could just get an 01 FFL (dealers license) and the SOT and just buy sample guns with.. ahem Joey's assistance but with the manufacturers 07 FFL we can make our own and as many as we like for $500 a year.

Anyone play poker? Maybe we could do a poker night and hash it out at the same time?




Sorry to have missed some of the prelim discussions; any chance I could play, too?
I'm a crummy poker player, but can usually manage to count up the cards using my fingers & toes. With respect to the above, how do you go about having a location zoned appropriately? I'd offer my place of business, but a Catholic hospital would probably not be happy to get a call from the ATF.

Re: shooting days, I'll see if it's possible to change on-call around. As the new guy, I get lots of weekends - 3 in February.



If the rest of the guys don't mind I sure don't.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:53:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spiff:

Originally Posted By jsandfort:
Barnes & Noble for coffee??? How about Hooters for beer?



Don't they serve coffee at Hooters? Personally I'm not much of an alcohol drinker. Got that out of my system some time (and allot of trouble) ago!!

However I think the consensus is leaning towards poker.....



Poker was just a thought, heck Hooters and some wings works for me too.

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:27:47 AM EDT
Just to get this out there; I work Sun-Tues and every other Wed from 6:30pm-6:30am. Good days for me are Thursdays-Saturdays ( although I'll have to make an exception to witness the power of the full auto sometime)

Hooters? Sure, I'd be good for the LLC (considering cost) and especially interested in the "modify what you already have" portion.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:56:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:

Originally Posted By sleepdr:

Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:

No problem, what I suggest we do is pick a night say a Friday if that's good for everyone that wants to get involved and sit down and hash it out. Forming the LLC is pretty cut and dry, it's getting the Manufacturers FFL that will be more challenging. The SOT (Special Occupancy Tax) is super easy. That is the item that allows you to buy and sell class III items by the way. We could just get an 01 FFL (dealers license) and the SOT and just buy sample guns with.. ahem Joey's assistance but with the manufacturers 07 FFL we can make our own and as many as we like for $500 a year.

Anyone play poker? Maybe we could do a poker night and hash it out at the same time?




Sorry to have missed some of the prelim discussions; any chance I could play, too?
I'm a crummy poker player, but can usually manage to count up the cards using my fingers & toes. With respect to the above, how do you go about having a location zoned appropriately? I'd offer my place of business, but a Catholic hospital would probably not be happy to get a call from the ATF.

Re: shooting days, I'll see if it's possible to change on-call around. As the new guy, I get lots of weekends - 3 in February.



If the rest of the guys don't mind I sure don't.




The more we can get, the cheaper it becomes.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:57:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:
Just to get this out there; I work Sun-Tues and every other Wed from 6:30pm-6:30am. Good days for me are Thursdays-Saturdays ( although I'll have to make an exception to witness the power of the full auto sometime)

Hooters? Sure, I'd be good for the LLC (considering cost) and especially interested in the "modify what you already have" portion.




You just like the idea that a .50 piece of metal can turn your AR into a full-auto.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:03:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spiff:

Ar10er, what would you guesstimate/know to be the center line to base of the scope rings you have on the HK?



Roughly, 3/4"
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:07:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 16BblM1A:
Joey here
I'll do what I can? I would like to stay employed where I'm at.
As far as being part of the LLC. My Money is to thin right now, but in a couple months should be back in the Black.

As far as a day to go out again? Any weekend day is good for me, you know how us city workers are?




What is going on with the job in the armory? You need to go talk to him. Find out what the Chief needs, and see who he turns to.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:36:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:
Sure, I'd be good for the LLC (considering cost) and especially interested in the "modify what you already have" portion.



That part interests me also!!
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:47:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar10er:
Roughly, 3/4"



Thank you sir!!

I think the problem with the M1A as opposed to the HK is that the rear sight sits up higher. I think I can clear it with an ARMS #22 medium that sits 1.150" base to centerline but thats going to require me to raise the cheek weld. Which means I'm going to have to track down one of the leather strap-on welds, 'cause there's no way in hell I'm going to drill holes in my stock!!

With all this said, I think I'm going to buy some cheap rings to start out with. The #22 are spendy, which is ok if they work. Not so ok if they don't and I have to try to unload them.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:13:59 AM EDT
BTW, the 18th is good for me, at this time. :-)
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:31:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:
Just to get this out there; I work Sun-Tues and every other Wed from 6:30pm-6:30am. Good days for me are Thursdays-Saturdays ( although I'll have to make an exception to witness the power of the full auto sometime)

Hooters? Sure, I'd be good for the LLC (considering cost) and especially interested in the "modify what you already have" portion.hug.gif



Hey JR, you work at Micron? if so which area?

I ask b/c i'm awaiting a call on a job i've applied for and i might be a coworker. (I hope)
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 11:41:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 11:43:02 AM EDT by AZ_Gun_Nut]

Originally Posted By Spiff:

Originally Posted By ar10er:
Roughly, 3/4"



Thank you sir!!

I think the problem with the M1A as opposed to the HK is that the rear sight sits up higher. I think I can clear it with an ARMS #22 medium that sits 1.150" base to centerline but thats going to require me to raise the cheek weld. Which means I'm going to have to track down one of the leather strap-on welds, 'cause there's no way in hell I'm going to drill holes in my stock!!

With all this said, I think I'm going to buy some cheap rings to start out with. The #22 are spendy, which is ok if they work. Not so ok if they don't and I have to try to unload them.



Spiff which mount are you suing on you M1A? I saw a couple M1A's with the ARMS mount on them and it was the tits. Sat nice and low and I do believe they had the medium ARMS 22 mounts on it as well. If I keep my M1A I'm going with one of those for it.

Hey if anybody else is off on Monday's and wants to go out let me know.


Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:33:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:
Spiff which mount are you suing on you M1A? I saw a couple M1A's with the ARMS mount on them and it was the tits. Sat nice and low and I do believe they had the medium ARMS 22 mounts on it as well. If I keep my M1A I'm going with one of those for it.



I have the ARMS #18 mounted on it right now. Looking real hard at the ARMS #22's for the long term but I might buy a real cheap set to make sure I get the right height. I'm pretty sure the medium #22's will work, but I want to make sure before plopping down > $100 on them.



Hey if anybody else is off on Monday's and wants to go out let me know.



No can do here, I was just off last Monday because my youngest son was sick. Tell them to take you off the weird hours!!
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:09:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 3:13:33 PM EDT by jollyroger]

Originally Posted By ar10er:

You just like the idea that a .50 piece of metal can turn your AR into a full-auto.



You're damn right!


Shortmag: Yeah, I work at Micron on the production side of things in assembly. What position did you apply for? Dont give up if you dont hear from them for a while, it can take a month or so for them to get back with you.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:28:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 4:29:20 PM EDT by AZ_Gun_Nut]



No can do here, I was just off last Monday because my youngest son was sick. Tell them to take you off the weird hours!!



Wish I could but my Saturdays are spent updating the Exchange server, PDC, and all the member servers I maintain.

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:21:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:
Wish I could but my Saturdays are spent updating the Exchange server, PDC, and all the member servers I maintain.



Gotcha. Hard to do certain kinds of maintenance on servers when people are trying to use them.

I'm not running Exchange Server here at work but a few years ago I managed Exchange 5.5 at my last job. Unlike a lot of people it seems, I liked Exchange Server, it's kind of a resource hog (like most Windows Server flavors) but it was stable and ran well, and it fit right in with an organization using Outlook as a mail client.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 9:01:21 PM EDT
The deal with Shooting World fell through.
They are looking at building a new Outdoor range, I think South of Gowen?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:12:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:
Shortmag: Yeah, I work at Micron on the production side of things in assembly. What position did you apply for? Dont give up if you dont hear from them for a while, it can take a month or so for them to get back with you.



I applied for the Fab 1 Diffusion tech. I had a call from the Micron recruiter and then he got me a phone interview with the diffusion department guys. they said i should hear from them with in a week or two. it's been about a week and still no word. I'm keeping my fingers crossed as this would be Great oppertunity for me.

I work at HP now through Adecco Technical as an envronmental regulatory tech. it's good work and i'm doing well for most people my age but i'm still a contract worker that could have my assignment ended at any time.hock.gif

we'll see what happens.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:24:01 AM EDT
Well good luck, hopefully they'll get back with you soon. Really they probably just have other people to interview and talk with, it can be a drawn out process. They've been wanting to get more techs for my area for a few months now and we are finally seeing some guys. Also are you set on diffusion? If not I know they are wanting techs for dry etch, photo and I think I saw something for PVD. You might check that out if you are desperate to get out of what you're doing now.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:30:39 AM EDT
I'm not set on anything really. I'd be happy with anything that would be secure and actually working for the company instead of contract. we're not looked upon very highly by a lot of the HP employees here.

I'll will definatly take a look at those others you mentioned. Thanks.

the diffusion tech really sounded like a position i would enjoy. if the other positions are somewhat like that i'd be more than happy.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:37:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 5:40:43 AM EDT by jollyroger]
Dont worry about the contractor thing too much. True its usually not as good as being employed for the company that is contracting you but when HP goes down (seems frequently lately) you'll still be employed (right?) I did the contractor thing for 2.5 years, and certain people in Micron looked down on me and my crew too...fuck 'em.

As far as the other positions, its still a tech job. They will all be similar, the difference is tool platforms and process to those platforms. I dont see why you wouldnt be able to do any of the other areas unless your partial to a particular process.

ETA: My post count is 2008. By November of that year I have told myself I want to have all firearms (military style weapons----the bolt actions can wait a bit longer) that I want or need to defend myself against the world.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:54:26 AM EDT
No if HP goes down, so will I. Adecco doesn't have a whole lot outside of HP. There have been rumors that our jobs may not be here in the next year or two.

Adecco had about 350 contract employees working at HP in August of 2004. there are only about 100 of us left out here now. so they've let 250 people go in just over a year. and i only heard of one that stayed employed with Adecco outside of HP. He was ONE SMART DUDE. and a helluva shot too. He took my cousin and i out to Mt. Home to do some bunny bustin. he has a .223 bolt gun that he reloads with V-Max's. didn't see him miss much.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:01:08 AM EDT
Gotcha.


Just ordered my barrel! A 14.5" w/permanant phantom 5C1, MP tested, chrome lined and chrome bore, true M4 extensions, with a 1/7 twist.

Oh yeah and I ordered a CMT upper receiver with M4 cuts and T marks.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:28:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:
Gotcha.


Just ordered my barrel! A 14.5" w/permanant phantom 5C1, MP tested, chrome lined and chrome bore, true M4 extensions, with a 1/7 twist.

Oh yeah and I ordered a CMT upper receiver with M4 cuts and T marks.



Why did you want a 7" twist? A 9" will shoot anything a 7" will that will fit in a mag. Though I'll grant you that middle 70's bullets will probably stabilize better in a 7". Now that said, with a 14.5" barrel your not looking at shooting any distances that really require heavy slugs anyway. Just curious!! You know I would never *really* dare to argue AR's with 'ya!!

I got my Bushmaster barrel (the FSB is a very rough forging compared to my other AR's). It's a gov profile so it's light under the handguards, but it's also to heavy up front to actually pass as an earlier AR. I'm kind of considering my options at this point. I don't really want to spend any more $$ building ARs as I want to get an 1100 or build an HK. I suppose it's not that big a deal, you guys would probably catch the discrepancy, but "normal" people () more than likely would not. And the lower receiver is not a slick side anyway (can't find one). Sigh.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:39:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spiff:
And the lower receiver is not a slick side anyway (can't find one). Sigh.




I know where one is.
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