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Posted: 8/21/2004 3:51:00 AM EST
What will this mean for renegade nutjob Blago? Is it obvious to everyone yet that this guy is an 1/8" out of square? What action can/will the FED take? Does this mean everyone in Illinois is now free from federal law?
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 4:10:49 AM EST
I haven't heard about this. Do you have a link?
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:02:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 9:29:33 AM EST
The FDA could nail Blago and Gov's from three other states that are
doing his, but I'm sure they won't until we get a verified case of someone
dropping dead from tainted or counterfiet foriegn drugs.


CKMorley
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 9:49:27 AM EST
I think what disturbs me the most about this is that Americans don't realize why prescription drugs are so expensive. It's because all the research and development is done in America and we pay for it instead of exporting the costs to foreign countries that brag about working only 8 months out of the year. Blago is a typical dipshit who is in it for the immediate. Importing these drugs will only serve to stunt the U.S. market which will leave research and development unfunded. So we got the Polio cure, but if this hippie crap keeps up, we will never see the cyre for Cancer.

The other thing that pisses me off is I grew up with a guy that is a total deadbeat scumbag. I still bump in to him from time to time and his girlfriend recently broke up with him because she said he was taking Valium and Oxycotton, I don't know how it's spelled forgive me. I asked her where he gets them from and she said "on the internet from Europe like everyone else." This will be just wonderful.

CK, we have YET ANOTHER Babyboomer hairbrained plan that will fail and end up hurting America like everything else they do.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 9:59:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 10:02:26 AM EST by fizassist]

Originally Posted By patriot73:
I think what disturbs me the most about this is that Americans don't realize why prescription drugs are so expensive. It's because all the research and development is done in America and we pay for it instead of exporting the costs to foreign countries that brag about working only 8 months out of the year. Blago is a typical dipshit who is in it for the immediate. Importing these drugs will only serve to stunt the U.S. market which will leave research and development unfunded. So we got the Polio cure, but if this hippie crap keeps up, we will never see the cyre for Cancer.



I realize the reason, and I'm more than happy to buy prescription meds from across the border. The drug companies make a choice to push the R&D costs onto Americans. If enough Americans refuse to pay the premium, the corps will be forced to equalize the pricing. Capitalism at its best.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 1:32:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
I think what disturbs me the most about this is that Americans don't realize why prescription drugs are so expensive. It's because all the research and development is done in America and we pay for it instead of exporting the costs to foreign countries that brag about working only 8 months out of the year. Blago is a typical dipshit who is in it for the immediate. Importing these drugs will only serve to stunt the U.S. market which will leave research and development unfunded. So we got the Polio cure, but if this hippie crap keeps up, we will never see the cyre for Cancer.



I realize the reason, and I'm more than happy to buy prescription meds from across the border. The drug companies make a choice to push the R&D costs onto Americans. If enough Americans refuse to pay the premium, the corps will be forced to equalize the pricing. Capitalism at its best.



No, equalized pricing would be what is better known as, Communism.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 2:01:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
I think what disturbs me the most about this is that Americans don't realize why prescription drugs are so expensive. It's because all the research and development is done in America and we pay for it instead of exporting the costs to foreign countries that brag about working only 8 months out of the year. Blago is a typical dipshit who is in it for the immediate. Importing these drugs will only serve to stunt the U.S. market which will leave research and development unfunded. So we got the Polio cure, but if this hippie crap keeps up, we will never see the cyre for Cancer.



I realize the reason, and I'm more than happy to buy prescription meds from across the border. The drug companies make a choice to push the R&D costs onto Americans. If enough Americans refuse to pay the premium, the corps will be forced to equalize the pricing. Capitalism at its best.



No, equalized pricing would be what is better known as, Communism.



That's nonsense. The current system has too much government control over prices; that is the problem. .gov says we can only buy drugs here; that means we have to pay the high prices that the corporations choose to charge here. If we the people (not the government) choose to shop elsewhere and pay less, it forces the corporations to make a self-enlightened business decision (i.e. a captialistic one) to equalize prices in order to earn profits. That is nothing at all like communism. It's just like when we buycott a retailer or manufacturer because they're anti-gun.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:18:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
I think what disturbs me the most about this is that Americans don't realize why prescription drugs are so expensive. It's because all the research and development is done in America and we pay for it instead of exporting the costs to foreign countries that brag about working only 8 months out of the year. Blago is a typical dipshit who is in it for the immediate. Importing these drugs will only serve to stunt the U.S. market which will leave research and development unfunded. So we got the Polio cure, but if this hippie crap keeps up, we will never see the cyre for Cancer.



I realize the reason, and I'm more than happy to buy prescription meds from across the border. The drug companies make a choice to push the R&D costs onto Americans. If enough Americans refuse to pay the premium, the corps will be forced to equalize the pricing. Capitalism at its best.



No, equalized pricing would be what is better known as, Communism.



That's nonsense. The current system has too much government control over prices; that is the problem. .gov says we can only buy drugs here; that means we have to pay the high prices that the corporations choose to charge here. If we the people (not the government) choose to shop elsewhere and pay less, it forces the corporations to make a self-enlightened business decision (i.e. a captialistic one) to equalize prices in order to earn profits. That is nothing at all like communism. It's just like when we buycott a retailer or manufacturer because they're anti-gun.



You are simply wrong my friend. The thing you don't get is that you don't have to buy the drugs anywhere, you aren't guarnteed a right to buy drugs by the Constitution and you boycotting a drug company is not going to force them to do anything because guys like me are going to bust our asses and enterprise to buy the best possible health insurance and prescription drugs money can buy for our kids and guys like you are going to be left out in the cold with a shrug and a who cares from the drug company brass. Please give me one example of a successful boycott of a corporation by consumers? One source indicating fiduciary self destruction as a result of "not heeding the warning of the boycotters." I feel like I'm arguing with a Liberal about gun control. Forget it, by drugs from Mexico, whatever.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 6:00:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Does this mean everyone in Illinois is now free from federal law?



Nice thought, but I doubt it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 9:36:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:
You are simply wrong my friend. The thing you don't get is that you don't have to buy the drugs anywhere, you aren't guarnteed a right to buy drugs by the Constitution and you boycotting a drug company is not going to force them to do anything because guys like me are going to bust our asses and enterprise to buy the best possible health insurance and prescription drugs money can buy for our kids and guys like you are going to be left out in the cold with a shrug and a who cares from the drug company brass. Please give me one example of a successful boycott of a corporation by consumers? One source indicating fiduciary self destruction as a result of "not heeding the warning of the boycotters." I feel like I'm arguing with a Liberal about gun control. Forget it, by drugs from Mexico, whatever.



You think I'm wrong, that's fine. It's nonsense to accuse me of advocating communisim, however. Especially when you're contributing to a communist system by supporting the health insurance scam like the rest of the sheeple. Prescription drugs would not be so expensive in this country if there were not insurance companies that would pay such outrageous prices.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:59:16 AM EST
I don't get how reimportation = communism. If drug companies want to price discrminate against US consumers or if US consumers are willing to accept a drug made overseas that is to the same standards as its American counterpart then so be it. Capitalism is about free trade and free markets. Please don't try to tell me that war on drugs...any drugs is a good thing for this country.

Also, understand that US consumers don't just subsidize the bulk of the R&D costs. They also subsidize the FDA, the parasite trial lawyers that make a living off of suing drug companies, and the medical profession that keeps a tight lid on forcing you to come see them if you need any effective medication dispensed. Also, most drug prices in foreign countries are not fixed below market. That argument is a red herring.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:44:52 AM EST
Since Canada has imposed strict price controls on the drugs, you can't really say that it is capitalism. The line between competition gets blurred when it is illegal in one country to charge more for a drug, and it is illegal for the other country to import from there.

Continuing to export drugs to foreign countries who impose strict price controls is going to ruin the pharm. companies. They are demonstrating that they are willing to sell the drug for less, even if it does cut into their profits.

Guess what will happen now? The supply of drugs in Canada will be a little scarcer than it used to be, and the pharm. companies will be hesitant to increase their sales.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 1:37:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Muddy:
I don't get how reimportation = communism. If drug companies want to price discrminate against US consumers or if US consumers are willing to accept a drug made overseas that is to the same standards as its American counterpart then so be it. Capitalism is about free trade and free markets. Please don't try to tell me that war on drugs...any drugs is a good thing for this country.

Also, understand that US consumers don't just subsidize the bulk of the R&D costs. They also subsidize the FDA, the parasite trial lawyers that make a living off of suing drug companies, and the medical profession that keeps a tight lid on forcing you to come see them if you need any effective medication dispensed. Also, most drug prices in foreign countries are not fixed below market. That argument is a red herring.



Please read again what I wrote. I said price equalizing is Communism. I'm not saying there isnt a problem, but I think you nailed it on the head, trial lawyers and the deadbeats they represent. Too much laziness, lack of responsibility and too much of a desire to not work in this country. Free trade doesn't grant you the right to buy whatever you want from foreign countries. I think sometimes we forget around here that the Constitution isn't a free pass to run wild.

You can't import minors for sexual purposes from Cambodia, totally acceptable over there. Is this an infringement of your right to free trade?

The First Amendment doesn't grant you the right to roll through your neighborhood at 4AM singing Barry Mainlow songs through a bull horn.

The Second Amendment doesn't grant you the right to own a Nuke.

Gee, see when it's steel we import, we all flip the hell out. Buy American!!! Right?

The answer to the problem is not to allow people to start ordering drugs on the internet from foreign countries. That has got to be the worst idea I have ever heard. I hope this doesn't result in people dying, getting really sick or becoming major hardcore drug addicts. But it will.

This is another hairbrained Babyboomer half assed hatched plan that will fail. Be mad at me now, but remember this in ten years.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:53:14 PM EST
Okay,

For starters my argument was not specifically regarding Canada, which does have price controls on some drugs. Many Asian and Central/South American countries do not. The cost of producing them and/or the price level they can be sold at there is just cheaper. Something like Retin-A is $60 a tube in the U.S. and $9 at any corner pharmacy in Mexico. That's one example but I can list others and it's not price controlled and you are getting the same thing.

Regarding the other points raised, there are completely different moral principals at work that you seemed to have glossed over. We either agree that consenting adults have the right to take care of their bodies as they see fit or they do not. That is a baisc freedom, the spirit of which, our Consitution and Bill of Rights is supposed to capture and protect, regardless of whether or not it is specifically enumerated.

Partriot, regarding the points you raised, I think that you're being ridiculous. I would submit that child prostitution/exploitation is a violation of individual rights because one of the two persons involved is not of an age at which an individual is capable of making informed consent. Nukes? Well, being that you can't set one off without killing innocents, it should be obvious that it would be a blatant violation of rights to try and use one in the context of self defense for an individual and not morally or legally justifiable.

As far a Barry Manilow goes, I'm not going to touch it but freedom is more important than comfort and to each his own.

Steel imports? I really don't care where it comes from. Buy American is fine if it's the better product or in the long run it's strategically better. Why certain products are better left to production in other places is best left to market decisions, not emotional ones.

Bottom line, you have the right to take care of your own body and that includes your medical needs. Some people may only be comfortable seeing a US doctor and following their instructions. Others may not and may seek to take a more self-reliant role. I know several persons who would either be dead or have a greatly diminished quality of life if they had not done the latter. Basic human freedom ought to give everybody that right and it ought not be a concern of anybody on this board or in our government of how individuals seek to accomadate their medical needs.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:57:23 AM EST
Muddy, I see what you are saying and my point was that government does have the right to set limitations. I see your point, I think you see mine. I agree everyone has the right to care for their own body. But I don't like Blagodaley defying the FED as they see fit, which they do at every turn in this state when we are at times jailed for exercising a right that is your right, the Second Amendment. They run illegal defacto gun registries here, and just so you know, if you have purchased a gun anywhere in the US, your gun is registered with the City of Chicago. I'm tired of this rogue governmental regime in IL. I do not believe this is the answer, not because I am a supporter a Phizer, but because I believe it is dangerous and ideally flawed.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 3:28:28 AM EST
Patriot,

I lived in IL all my life until recently and am very aware of the numerous ways in which the state does what it wants and should be called down on the carpet for it. I would not argue with you regarding the RTKBA violations that the state and municipalities in IL engage in as they are many and undisputable and I am in complete agreement with you regarding their legality.

One thing to keep in mind is that our form of Government is a constitional republic and along with all the well known amendments, we also have the 10th (those powers not specifically delegated to the Federal Government...). This amendment specifically addresses issues like this. My concern, is that we always need to reinforce the legitimate basis for our having a government and the specifications under which ours is allowed to operate (Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc...); deviating from these, just to smack down a politician we despise (with good reason) will not help in the long run. There is a real need to get back to the legitimate reasons for having a government...and ONLY those reasons, not create any new ones. Problem is, that's not the trend right now, let alone in IL so the sh!t continues.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 3:43:42 AM EST
I get your point but as much as I'd like to see Blago go down on this, it is truely the fact that I believe this plan is just a bad, bad idea. I'm not saying the FED isn't wrong as well, but when the law is the law, it's the law. It's kinda like the marijuana legalization debate, "But hey man.......no one has ever died from pot" well that may be so, but if you get caught with it, you're in trouble, cause it's the law. I do think it is dangerous for state officials to be allowed to run amuck without being checked by a higher authority. IL like CA, NJ and NY have become rogue states within the U.S. and whether it's right or wrong, I think they need to be towed in. I will be in TN and NC come this Thursday. I love the South and spend alot of time there with my gf. It is always very hard to come back here after being there. I know you know what I mean.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:53:53 AM EST
R&D costs are a part of the reason drugs are expensive in IL and the rest of this country. The other is our system of tort law. Ambulance chasers (ie John Edwards) are also to blame for the high costs.

Blojobobitch's plan will do nothing more than increase the costs of these drugs in Canada, U.K. and wherever else they come from.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 3:58:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By SIGNAL4L:
R&D costs are a part of the reason drugs are expensive in IL and the rest of this country. The other is our system of tort law. Ambulance chasers (ie John Edwards) are also to blame for the high costs.

Blojobobitch's plan will do nothing more than increase the costs of these drugs in Canada, U.K. and wherever else they come from.



Agreed
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:04:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
I think what disturbs me the most about this is that Americans don't realize why prescription drugs are so expensive. It's because all the research and development is done in America and we pay for it instead of exporting the costs to foreign countries that brag about working only 8 months out of the year. Blago is a typical dipshit who is in it for the immediate. Importing these drugs will only serve to stunt the U.S. market which will leave research and development unfunded. So we got the Polio cure, but if this hippie crap keeps up, we will never see the cyre for Cancer.



I realize the reason, and I'm more than happy to buy prescription meds from across the border. The drug companies make a choice to push the R&D costs onto Americans. If enough Americans refuse to pay the premium, the corps will be forced to equalize the pricing. Capitalism at its best.



If we equalize the price, instead of subsidizing R+D, foreign countries will simply disreguard patents and make a generic version of our drugs. Either way we're screwed.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 8:42:53 PM EST
It wouldn't bother me one bit to see Bagofshit and Little Dick get cuffed and stuffed.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:58:04 AM EST
Wow, kind of a free-for-all going here.

I just got back from a week up north of the DMZ that is I-80 (Elgin). I really feel for you guys up there; stupid is as stupid does, it seems like. I was eating breakfast listening to a couple whine about the tollway fee hike proposal. The lady seemed to be right on about it--she said that the tollways are paid for, and the tolls should be eliminated. The dumb guy with her explained to her that the toll booths help congestion by "breaking up traffic flow." Huh? The guy also figured (no doubt using his superior boomer "New Math" skills) that the state would recover the $5 BILLION it's going to cost "in a month, even though everybody will just get an I-PASS." I felt like turning around and telling him that he was probably right, after they decide to time I-PASS drivers from gate to gate, and mail them speeding tickets.

All in all, I had a good time, but I sure wouldn't live there.

As far as drug importation, it's hard to say what the best course of action is. Currency values relative to one another will play a role. Depending on where imports come from, safety might be an issue.

It's going to hurt their system by reducing the supply and driving their costs up. Meanwhile, abundance in America might bring costs down somewhat. We will likely lose jobs, good ones, at that. The most insidious cost we will get might be the reduction of research.

Steel is different. America needs a steel industry. Our military very much depends on it; do we really want our national defense dependent on steel imported from other places, like France?



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Pete's sig line
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