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Posted: 2/21/2007 3:39:28 PM EST
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone had any new information about the Blackstar Arms lower for us Cali Prisoners. I'm hoping it's released soon.

It looks like it could be the best option for us who want AR-ish rifles with detachable magazines.

There website is blackstararms.com. I posted on their forum but haven't had a response yet.
Link Posted: 2/21/2007 4:52:41 PM EST
They are just looking for a manufacturer. Meaning that all qualified shops are so busy with military and LE contracts right now. It is an awesome system I have personally seen it compete twice in a 3 gun match and preform flawlessly.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 8:56:38 AM EST
I can't speak for the co, but you'll hear when it's ready when it's ready (or very near so).
Gonna be a bit to ramp up manufacture.

They're trying to be a legit co out there for the long term so they aren't rushing things.

I have personally handled a prototype of this rifle and it's great. (If you've seen pictures of it with an ACOG 3X scope and/or a 20" Colt HBAR upper, that's my personal scope/upper.)


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 6:13:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By bwiese:
I can't speak for the co, but you'll hear when it's ready when it's ready (or very near so).
Gonna be a bit to ramp up manufacture.

They're trying to be a legit co out there for the long term so they aren't rushing things.

I have personally handled a prototype of this rifle and it's great. (If you've seen pictures of it with an ACOG 3X scope and/or a 20" Colt HBAR upper, that's my personal scope/upper.)


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA


Are we talking one-two-three months or a year or years here?
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 8:15:14 PM EST
<speech mode on>

Part of being "legit" (responsible, well managed) is to have a timeline and publish it. Communicate with your customer base, even before the sales. If the timeline gets moved around, that's fine, too. Just tll us the new timeline and at least give us a clue about why it changed. This will establish credibility and maintain good customer relations.

<speech mode off>
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 10:18:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 10:18:39 PM EST by bwiese]
Incorrect. Part of being legit is to not show all your cards until everything is ready.

Unmanaged expectations and quote of release dates that turn out to be vaporware due to scheduling issues sometimes out of a firm's control have killed many an unregulated company here in Silicon Valley. Early release of items not-in-prime time have prob killed just as many other companies.

BTW how do you stick to a schedule when the ATF and Cal DOJ control mfgr licensing, on their own sweet time?

The company has a preproduction product yet to go into mass production. There are many other steps involved in being legit. Promising a release date to drooling possibly prospective customers is not one.

I'm guessing at least 1/2 year before things start going. It's already a bitch getting time from quality machine tooling houses already often working 24/7 shifts...

Bill Wiese
San Jose
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 10:35:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 10:35:37 PM EST by Mike_Mills]

Originally Posted By bwiese:
Incorrect. Part of being legit is to not show all your cards until everything is ready.
They already showed their cards (web site). We liked what we saw.

Unmanaged expectations and quote of release dates that turn out to be vaporware due to scheduling issues sometimes out of a firm's control have killed many an unregulated company here in Silicon Valley. Early release of items not-in-prime time have prob killed just as many other companies.
We don't want it before it's ready. I agree with that 100%. We just want to know approximately when we might be able to get one - APPROXIMATELY.

BTW how do you stick to a schedule when the ATF and Cal DOJ control mfgr licensing, on their own sweet time?
Well, you could publish a notice that says we are in this stage (ATF approval, DOJ approval,...) and as the status changes, you update the list. It doesn't even have to quote dates.

The company has a preproduction product yet to go into mass production. There are many other steps involved in being legit. Promising a release date to drooling possibly prospective customers is not one.
WADDA YA MEAN, "possibly prospective"? I WANT ONE NOW, DAMMIT!


I'm guessing at least 1/2 year before things start going. It's already a bitch getting time from quality machine tooling houses already often working 24/7 shifts...
There ya go, possibly starting in 6 months. So what about a year or more before product actually hits the market?

That's plenty of time to build several OLL.


Bill Wiese
San Jose
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 8:29:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
<speech mode on>

Part of being "legit" (responsible, well managed) is to have a timeline and publish it. Communicate with your customer base, even before the sales. If the timeline gets moved around, that's fine, too. Just tll us the new timeline and at least give us a clue about why it changed. This will establish credibility and maintain good customer relations.

<speech mode off>


Okay.

At the moment they can't find a machinist to make the thing.

If this is really so easy to do and these guys are just numbskulls, I (as an insider on all this) am pretty sure they would welcome anyone who can step up and show them how to do it better.

Post your commitments here.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 8:49:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/23/2007 8:51:38 AM EST by Mike_Mills]
Don't get defensive or be offensive. I'm not saying they are numbskulls at all - quite the contrary. This is a great looking thing. Lighten up a little.

I'm saying the customer base would like to know the approximate timeline for bringing this product to market. Honestly, I don't think that's too much to ask. I think even the little bit of insight Bill Weise gave us was great. It goes a long way in setting our expectations. As I hope you are aware, your customers' expectations are important.

I am done with this thread if you are.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:40:06 PM EST
How much to get my hands on the prototype?
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 2:15:22 PM EST
"It's in the works guys. We're looking for good reputation manufacters to machine the lowers.

We want something that the public is familiar with and trusts at the same time that will give us good prices so that we can keep the costs for the consumers low.

You'll know when we know."


this was pulled from the blackstar website. it's all about the $$$.

there is alot more machine work on these recievers than a standard ar15. i doubt they will come close to the ballpark costs that were hinted at in the past. i will be surprised if the reciever, bolt carrier, and rem 1100 stock are under $500. i won't be buying one at that price.
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 3:25:58 PM EST
Will this upcoming/possible AWB have an affect on these lowers?

Link Posted: 2/28/2007 8:29:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mesa_Tactical:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
<speech mode on>

Part of being "legit" (responsible, well managed) is to have a timeline and publish it. Communicate with your customer base, even before the sales. If the timeline gets moved around, that's fine, too. Just tll us the new timeline and at least give us a clue about why it changed. This will establish credibility and maintain good customer relations.

<speech mode off>


Okay.

At the moment they can't find a machinist to make the thing.

If this is really so easy to do and these guys are just numbskulls, I (as an insider on all this) am pretty sure they would welcome anyone who can step up and show them how to do it better.

Post your commitments here.

Thanks!


I sent 50 Freak some contact info for a licensed firearms manufacturer in the bay area where my brother works. We'll see what happens...
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