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Posted: 8/29/2005 7:29:50 AM EDT
Is there any problem with buying, selling or shipping bayonets in Texas
since the the legal blade length is 5.5 inches for knives. Thanks
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:33:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rm1bow:
Is there any problem with buying, selling or shipping bayonets in Texas
since the the legal blade length is 5.5 inches for knives. Thanks




No, you can buy >5.5 inch knives in Albertsons. The issue is carrying them.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:49:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By rm1bow:
Is there any problem with buying, selling or shipping bayonets in Texas
since the the legal blade length is 5.5 inches for knives. Thanks




No, you can buy >5.5 inch knives in Albertsons. The issue is carrying them.



Exactly.
While they do fit the legal definition of "Illegal knife", it applies to carrying the knife, not owning it.
I'd have to re-read the applicable section to see if the law could be applied to possession and not just carrying it.
I know of no case where a person has been prosecuted for having one at home. If this were the case, then most kitchen knives and many hunting/camping knives would be illegal to own in Texas.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 9:22:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 9:23:21 AM EDT by MauserMark]
what about permanently attached bayos on SKS rifles? I know the Yugo one is very hard to take off, if not permanently on there.

or the attached bayos on M44s? Wonder if they condsider that a blade or knife.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 5:59:37 PM EDT
Ok , that makes sense. I guess it was a dumb question. I don't plan on carrying
it anyware. And I guess shipping it would be ok as long as I have it already in a
box before I take it to the Post Office. Thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:41:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
what about permanently attached bayos on SKS rifles? I know the Yugo one is very hard to take off, if not permanently on there.

or the attached bayos on M44s? Wonder if they condsider that a blade or knife.



I'd like to know the answer to this as well. Does an SKS bayonet classify as a blade under Texas law? There's no blade, only a point.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 8:05:08 PM EDT
I am fairly certain the prohibited weapons list only applies to weapons being carried on your person. Not defensive bayonet that are permanently attached to a long gun, i.e. Nagants.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:26:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 10:26:47 PM EDT by yugosksfan]

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By rm1bow:
Is there any problem with buying, selling or shipping bayonets in Texas
since the the legal blade length is 5.5 inches for knives. Thanks




No, you can buy >5.5 inch knives in Albertsons. The issue is carrying them.



What about driving around in the car with one? Is that considered 'carrying' per TX law?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:08:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yugosksfan:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By rm1bow:
Is there any problem with buying, selling or shipping bayonets in Texas
since the the legal blade length is 5.5 inches for knives. Thanks




No, you can buy >5.5 inch knives in Albertsons. The issue is carrying them.



What about driving around in the car with one? Is that considered 'carrying' per TX law?




ugh yeah i think so
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:14:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:

Originally Posted By yugosksfan:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By rm1bow:
Is there any problem with buying, selling or shipping bayonets in Texas
since the the legal blade length is 5.5 inches for knives. Thanks




No, you can buy >5.5 inch knives in Albertsons. The issue is carrying them.



What about driving around in the car with one? Is that considered 'carrying' per TX law?




ugh yeah i think so



Just checking, I wasn't sure if it specified 'on your person' or what-not.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:01:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 2:03:26 PM EDT by Jolly_Roger]
I think a removeable bayonet would be illegal to carry on or about your person if the blade is over the legal length. I don't think a fixed bayonet like one on a SKS would be illegal since it is not a "bladed hand instrument" and so arguably does not fit the definition of "knife". However, the cops might consider a rifle with bayonet as a spear, which is also illegal to carry. I'm sure glad we have such laws to keep the number of drive by spearings under control.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:21:19 PM EDT
If you carry a concelaed handgun and a permit which covers that handgun you may carry an illegal knife concealed or open and a club concelaed or open as per Texas law. The permit will not cover the knife if you do not have the handgun as well. Carrying means in your control which is anywhere within arms reach of a driver whether locked in a box or not.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 3:29:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
If you carry a concelaed handgun and a permit which covers that handgun you may carry an illegal knife concealed or open and a club concelaed or open as per Texas law. The permit will not cover the knife if you do not have the handgun as well. Carrying means in your control which is anywhere within arms reach of a driver whether locked in a box or not.



are you sure about this
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 9:23:35 AM EDT
Positive. Carrying a concelaed pistol and permit exempts you from the statute against carrying a concealed pistol. SC Texas told me that and I didnt believe him till I looked it up. The statute it says it exempts you from is for concealed handguns, illegal knives and clubs. Its why a uniformed security officer can carry both an unconcealed pistol AND a club/nightstick. He can also carry a Katana by the legal exemption.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 10:03:10 AM EDT
ok, i looked in my CHL handbook and can't find anything.
is it in PC 46? where can i find it.

thanks

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 10:56:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 10:57:07 AM EDT by RenegadeX]

Originally Posted By hk940:
ok, i looked in my CHL handbook and can't find anything.
is it in PC 46? where can i find it.

thanks




46.02 is where it is illegal to carry a handgun, illegal knife or club.

§ 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person
commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly
carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.


46.15 (b) (6) is where a CHL is exempted from 46.02.

§ 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid
license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry
a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person
is carrying;

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 12:10:09 PM EDT
cool!
thanks.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 1:19:57 PM EDT
I don't believe that's accurate. The CHL only gives the licensee the right to carry a Concealed Handgun, not an illegal knife or club. An illegal knife is still ILLEGAL. As the statue states above, the exclusion is afforded to a licensed person carrying a concealed handgun. It doesn't give them an exclusion from the whole of 46.02, only the part that applies to the handgun. If you don't believe me, walk up to a cop and show him your switchblade and your CHL and see what he does...

Btw, it is correct that you can own an illegal knife but you cannot carry it. I own several automatic knifes. Perfectly legal as long as I don't take them anywhere.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 1:36:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By REDjarHEAD:
I don't believe that's accurate. The CHL only gives the licensee the right to carry a Concealed Handgun, not an illegal knife or club. An illegal knife is still ILLEGAL. As the statue states above, the exclusion is afforded to a licensed person carrying a concealed handgun. It doesn't give them an exclusion from the whole of 46.02, only the part that applies to the handgun. If you don't believe me, walk up to a cop and show him your switchblade and your CHL and see what he does...

Btw, it is correct that you can own an illegal knife but you cannot carry it. I own several automatic knifes. Perfectly legal as long as I don't take them anywhere.



your statement conflicts with the above law which clearly states that if you have a CHL and a concealed handgun you can carry a weapon deemed to be unlawful by 46.02.

and don't ever ask a cop anything about the law
they are not lawyers or judges and can be quite ignorant of the law.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 2:14:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 2:17:39 PM EDT by RenegadeX]

Originally Posted By REDjarHEAD:
I don't believe that's accurate. The CHL only gives the licensee the right to carry a Concealed Handgun, not an illegal knife or club. An illegal knife is still ILLEGAL. As the statue states above, the exclusion is afforded to a licensed person carrying a concealed handgun. It doesn't give them an exclusion from the whole of 46.02, only the part that applies to the handgun. If you don't believe me, walk up to a cop and show him your switchblade and your CHL and see what he does...

Btw, it is correct that you can own an illegal knife but you cannot carry it. I own several automatic knifes. Perfectly legal as long as I don't take them anywhere.



1) It is accurate. I quoted it directly from the Penal Code. You can find it here: Texas Penal Code

2) A switchblade is a prohibited weapon, not an illegal knife. You should be arrested.

3) It clearly states, (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:, so yes it does give exclusion to the whole of 46.02.

4) Yes, there are lots of cops who do not know the law or cannot read. We know of many ARFCOMMERs who have been falsely arrested under 46.02 or 46.05 and later had charges dropped when someone with intelligence finally got the case.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 3:45:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 3:55:29 PM EDT by txinvestigator]

Originally Posted By DevL:
If you carry a concelaed handgun and a permit which covers that handgun you may carry an illegal knife concealed or open and a club concelaed or open as per Texas law. The permit will not cover the knife if you do not have the handgun as well. Carrying means in your control which is anywhere within arms reach of a driver whether locked in a box or not.



Wrong answer. The CHL only allows you to carry a handgun, NOT an illegal knife or club. The DPS, Dallas Sheriffs Office and Dallas PD will arrest a CHL holder with an illegal knife or club.



You should read the rest of 46.15. Only in the CHL section is a handgun mentioned. A CHL holder is limited to handguns, not illegal knives or clubs.

Your statements about cops not being able to read are off base here.

Just for the record;


Text
§46.02. Unlawful carrying weapons.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun,
illegal knife, or club.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under
this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued
a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.


About your person has been established by the courts as any area within your immediate access, including the passenger compartment of a vehicle.


§46.15. Nonapplicability.


Text
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(1) (As added by L.1997, chap. 1221(4). See other paragraph (1)
below.) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of
the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section
431.001, Government Code, or as an employee of a penal institution
who is performing a security function;

(1) (As added by L.1997, chap. 1261(28). See other paragraph
(1) above.) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member
of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section
431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal
institution;

(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the
owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to
act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);

(3) is traveling;

(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting
activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or
is directly en route between the premises and the actor's residence,
if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas
Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:

(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's
duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's
place of assignment;

(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(C) the weapon is in plain view;

(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license
issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a
concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is
carrying;


(7) holds a security officer commission and a personal
protection authorization issued by the Texas Board of Private
Investigators and Private Security Agencies and who is providing
personal protection under the Private Investigators and Private
Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Texas Civil Statutes); or

(8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an
employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the
person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed
premises.


Notice 6 is the ONLY exception listing a handgun. The private security section does not. That is why the commissioned officers can carry a club.



Link Posted: 8/31/2005 4:01:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By REDjarHEAD:

Btw, it is correct that you can own an illegal knife but you cannot carry it. I own several automatic knifes. Perfectly legal as long as I don't take them anywhere.



You are confusing illegal knives with prohibited weapons.

Illegal knives are unlawful to carry on or about your person, unless you meet an exception listed in 46.15. Illegal knives are:

46.01


(6) "Illegal knife" means a:

(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;

(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being
thrown;

(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stilletto,
and poniard;



(D) bowie knife;

(E) sword; or

(F) spear.


Your automatic knives are prohibited weapons;


Text
§46.05. Prohibited weapons.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or
knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:

(1) an explosive weapon;

(2) a machine gun;

(3) a short-barrel firearm;

(4) a firearm silencer;

(5) a switchblade knife;

(6) knuckles;

(7) armor-piercing ammunition;

(8) a chemical dispensing device; or

(9) a zip gun.

46.01
(11) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a blade
that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath, and that:

(A) opens automatically by pressure applied to a button or
other device located on the handle; or

(B) opens or releases a blade from the handle or sheath by
the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal force.


Those are illegal to possess

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 7:10:51 PM EDT
I appreciate the response but as they say " the law is written in black and white, but interpretation is somewhere in between."

You can live by the interpretation you choose and I'll live by the interpretation I choose, but don't profess to be an expert on the law because you read a passage from the Penal Code and I'll not do the same. btw I should be arrested, but not because I own a switchblade...

And remember - winning an argument on an internet board is like winning at the Special Olympics. You may be the winner, but you're still retarded...
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 9:56:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By REDjarHEAD:
I appreciate the response but as they say " the law is written in black and white, but interpretation is somewhere in between."

You can live by the interpretation you choose and I'll live by the interpretation I choose, but don't profess to be an expert on the law because you read a passage from the Penal Code and I'll not do the same. btw I should be arrested, but not because I own a switchblade...

And remember - winning an argument on an internet board is like winning at the Special Olympics. You may be the winner, but you're still retarded...



10 year cop and current CHL, DPS Private Security Bureau Combined Instructor. I didn't just "read" a passage.

If you own a switchblade, and not as an antique or curio, then possession is a violation. I missed the post where someone said you SHOULD be arrested.

Thats harsh. LOL
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 1:21:13 AM EDT
I guess I could have been arrested when I was clearing the ditch behind my church with my razor sharp machete?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 9:44:24 AM EDT

While clearing, not likely.
While carrying, could be.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 9:47:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 9:50:46 AM EDT by imcoltsguy]

Originally Posted By REDjarHEAD:
I appreciate the response but as they say " the law is written in black and white, but interpretation is somewhere in between."

You can live by the interpretation you choose and I'll live by the interpretation I choose, but don't profess to be an expert on the law because you read a passage from the Penal Code and I'll not do the same. btw I should be arrested, but not because I own a switchblade...

And remember - winning an argument on an internet board is like winning at the Special Olympics. You may be the winner, but you're still retarded...





Since you're new, nobody wants to leap on you, but you might want to check your attitude. We try to keep it a little more friendly here in the TX forum.... BTW, the guy you're arguing with is pretty well versed in the law, as he says, so you're wrong....

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 10:16:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Positive. Carrying a concelaed pistol and permit exempts you from the statute against carrying a concealed pistol. SC Texas told me that and I didnt believe him till I looked it up. The statute it says it exempts you from is for concealed handguns, illegal knives and clubs. Its why a uniformed security officer can carry both an unconcealed pistol AND a club/nightstick. He can also carry a Katana by the legal exemption.



If I'm not mistaken security guards have to take a 15 hour class before they can carry a club while working.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:55:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 2:56:07 PM EDT by Skyssx]
I'm headed to Ft. Hood in a couple months and I have a few points i'd like some clarification on if it isn't too much trouble.

If I read those bits correctly, NO SBRs or silencers are allowed in Texas. Does this mean I can't have one period or I just can't have one without proper BATF paperwork and tax stamps. If I SBRed a lower reciever but had a longer barreled upper on it, would it cease to be a SBR and thus be legal?

Automatic knives: In Ohio you can have/carry/use/whatever an automatic if you are a LEO/Military/Amputee. Is there any such provision in Texas?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 11:39:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 5:09:44 PM EDT by yugosksfan]

Originally Posted By Skyssx:
I'm headed to Ft. Hood in a couple months and I have a few points i'd like some clarification on if it isn't too much trouble.

If I read those bits correctly, NO SBRs or silencers are allowed in Texas. Does this mean I can't have one period or I just can't have one without proper BATF paperwork and tax stamps. If I SBRed a lower reciever but had a longer barreled upper on it, would it cease to be a SBR and thus be legal?

Automatic knives: In Ohio you can have/carry/use/whatever an automatic if you are a LEO/Military/Amputee. Is there any such provision in Texas?



What I highlighted is correct.

The law says that you may not own most NFA stuff in Texas. It is a defense to prosecution, however, to have them registered per NFA guidelines. It is my understanding that if a LEO wants to be a dick, he can arrest you for being in possession of NFA stuff. However, once the judge found out that the SBR was legally registered, he would more than likely throw the case out.

So in other words, ya they're legal.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 6:25:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By yugosksfan:

Originally Posted By Skyssx:
I'm headed to Ft. Hood in a couple months and I have a few points i'd like some clarification on if it isn't too much trouble.

If I read those bits correctly, NO SBRs or silencers are allowed in Texas. Does this mean I can't have one period or I just can't have one without proper BATF paperwork and tax stamps. If I SBRed a lower reciever but had a longer barreled upper on it, would it cease to be a SBR and thus be legal?

Automatic knives: In Ohio you can have/carry/use/whatever an automatic if you are a LEO/Military/Amputee. Is there any such provision in Texas?



What I highlighted is correct.

The law says that you may not own most NFA stuff in Texas. It is a defense to prosecution, however, to have them registered per NFA guidelines. It is my understanding that if a LEO wants to be a dick, he can arrest you for being in possession of NFA stuff. However, once the judge found out that the SBR was legally registered, he would throw the case out.

So in other words, ya they're legal.



How about you advise it's more than likely that a judge would throw it out.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:48:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:34:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
I guess I could have been arrested when I was clearing the ditch behind my church with my razor sharp machete?



Not likely, as you were on premises under your control, which is another case where 46.02 does not apply.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 3:38:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jadams951:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Positive. Carrying a concelaed pistol and permit exempts you from the statute against carrying a concealed pistol. SC Texas told me that and I didnt believe him till I looked it up. The statute it says it exempts you from is for concealed handguns, illegal knives and clubs. Its why a uniformed security officer can carry both an unconcealed pistol AND a club/nightstick. He can also carry a Katana by the legal exemption.



If I'm not mistaken security guards have to take a 15 hour class before they can carry a club while working.



Negative. Only if it is a Non-commissioned guard that meets the following from 46.15:


Text
(c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying
of a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an
institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar
club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use of
the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use of the
club for nonviolent restraint. For the purposes of this subsection,
"nonviolent restraint" means the use of reasonable force, not intended
and not likely to inflict bodily injury.


A non-commissioned SO cannot carry a handgun or shotgun.

A commissioned officer is exempt from all of 46.02


46.02 Does not apply to a person who:
(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas
Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:

(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's
duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's
place of assignment;

(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(C) the weapon is in plain view;


Link Posted: 9/4/2005 5:09:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jadams951:

Originally Posted By yugosksfan:

Originally Posted By Skyssx:
I'm headed to Ft. Hood in a couple months and I have a few points i'd like some clarification on if it isn't too much trouble.

If I read those bits correctly, NO SBRs or silencers are allowed in Texas. Does this mean I can't have one period or I just can't have one without proper BATF paperwork and tax stamps. If I SBRed a lower reciever but had a longer barreled upper on it, would it cease to be a SBR and thus be legal?

Automatic knives: In Ohio you can have/carry/use/whatever an automatic if you are a LEO/Military/Amputee. Is there any such provision in Texas?



What I highlighted is correct.

The law says that you may not own most NFA stuff in Texas. It is a defense to prosecution, however, to have them registered per NFA guidelines. It is my understanding that if a LEO wants to be a dick, he can arrest you for being in possession of NFA stuff. However, once the judge found out that the SBR was legally registered, he would throw the case out.

So in other words, ya they're legal.



How about you advise it's more than likely that a judge would throw it out.



Edited.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:30:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
I guess I could have been arrested when I was clearing the ditch behind my church with my razor sharp machete?



Not likely, as you were on premises under your control, which is another case where 46.02 does not apply.



But I was just a "non-compensated (here on Earth) employee of the pastor. Furthermore, I brought a prohibited weapon to church property.

I doubt any LEO would have bothered to go down into that ditch which was crawling with snakes, broken glass and concrete/rebar rubble.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:00:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
I guess I could have been arrested when I was clearing the ditch behind my church with my razor sharp machete?



Not likely, as you were on premises under your control, which is another case where 46.02 does not apply.



But I was just a "non-compensated (here on Earth) employee of the pastor. Furthermore, I brought a prohibited weapon to church property.

I doubt any LEO would have bothered to go down into that ditch which was crawling with snakes, broken glass and concrete/rebar rubble.



A machete is not a prohibited weapon, it is an illegal knife and falls under Unlawfully Carrying Weapons. The exemption would apply.

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