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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/11/2005 10:23:07 AM EDT
Band of neighbors survived Hurricane Katrina, then fought off looters.

www.statesman.com/search/content/auto/epaper/editions/today/news_342278fe0324917e000f.html

This is the most encouraging thing I have seen in a while

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 10:38:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 10:39:33 AM EDT by STRATIOTES]

Tench Coxe
Whereas civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.




.... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins. -- Representative Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts,


And the entire U.S. armed services the most powerful military force on earth confiscating legally owned fire-arms and taking the property forcefully evicting the lawful property owners is encouraging how ?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:03:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:20:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 11:43:47 AM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:

And the entire U.S. armed services the most powerful military force on earth confiscating legally owned fire-arms and taking the property forcefully evicting the lawful property owners is encouraging how ?



Strat,

I dont agree with one bit of one bit of what is going on, but The entire U.S. ARMED SERVICES are NOT confiscating legally owned fire-arms and forcefully evicting the lawful property owners.


A few dipshit LEO's( California Highway Patrol/NOLA PD) and a couple of guys from the Oklahoma National Guard should hang with the Mayor,NO Chf of Police, and the CO of the Natl Guard unit, But the Majority of NATL Guard, and LEO's are not taking any firearms and doing nothing more than trying to talk people out. The Active Duty Military on the scene has time and time again said that they have no autiority to even take people out of their homes, They are on TV saying it infront of the whole nation from the ground troop up to the Lt Gen in charge.

I do think the Door to Door Gun grabbing did occure, and prob still is going on. ( Even though there are reports that those same officers/soldiers had to return those same weapons back to the owners a hour later) I hope Those that are involved get lead poisoning. It makes me sad to see Natl Guard Troops that are following Unlawful orders, and I hope they pay for their crimes aswell.

There are going to be lots of question's to answr when this is done and overwith, and it will be up to each and every citizen of this country to see that things are put right, and this NEVER occure's again.

NOW, as for the local group of "militia" in the story...

I would love to see them get a Ammo drop and a resupply of food and provisions.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 11:41:34 AM EDT
R-32 there is video of of U.S forces arresting and disarming citizens in N.O one such video has a Soldier saying he will shoot Americans, the ROE in the U.S is much looser than that of Iraq R.O.E.

You can deny the elephant in your living room all you want until it sits on you, then who is going to help get it off of you ?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:08:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 12:16:26 PM EDT by R-32]

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
R-32 there is video of of U.S forces arresting and disarming citizens in N.O one such video has a Soldier saying he will shoot Americans, the ROE in the U.S is much looser than that of Iraq R.O.E.

You can deny the elephant in your living room all you want until it sits on you, then who is going to help get it off of you ?



I have seen the video, I have read the posts and topics,
Im digging for every single piece of information I can find, Im listening to the Radio traffic from NO and the Natl Guard... Damn man you know I dont agree with what the hell is going on....I have been in Riots, and the Earthquakes as a Natl Guardsman, I have been in towns that have been burned to the ground, people acting all kinds of nuts and it gets worse as the days go on, I have maced little old ladies for stealing from children, I have forcefully taken a little old ladies out of her flooded home before she would have been electricuted. I have helped one woman give birth on the steps of a police station, I have handed out food and blankets...I have NOT ever been in something that is as F-d up as what these guys and gals are going through..What we are seeing is a logistical nightmare,confused troops and EMS workers that have been let down by those that are supposed to lead them, We are seeing human suffering on a scale not seen in this country since the civil war. Im not sticking up for LEO's and Troops following unlawful orders, Im not sticking up for leaders that are giving Unlawful orders...

Im saying that a few turds are following Unlawful orders, not the "entire U.S. armed services, the most powerful military force on earth"..and they should pay for their crimes to the people of this nation.

I know what it was like to be a 18 yo kid in uniform in a shitty situation, There was a time where I wanted to be a U.N. peacekeeper and work for the ATF...Until my grandfather gave me the education that the school system and the military never gave me. (as we were watching on live t.v. the burning of the Waco compound)

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 12:31:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
Im saying that a few turds are following Unlawful orders, not the "entire U.S. armed services, the most powerful military force on earth"..and they should pay for their crimes to the people of this nation.




Think this one through R-32, go back and read the quotes of the founders of this nation posted above, the concentration camps in Germany and the detention camps in the U.S. did not start out as death camps, they had dorms, laundries, hospitals, kitchens, it was not the intent to kill Americans of jap decent in the U.S camps but it happened just the same, necessity and good intentions will always be used to justify unlawful actions but there is no way to justify murder rape and plunder, we both know very well that none of those forces in the gulf coast region intend any malace upon fellow citizens but we also know the road to hell is paved with them.

Necessity is the plea of tyrant and creed of slaves ! too many good men and women have died or maimed defending this country to let it go the way of germany in the early to mid 1900's.

Every brach of the armed services is involved in the disaster relief including foreign militaries like mexico, these are the same guys that have been saying their oath to defend America was more important than following their CO's orders, well its happening and I don't see any military or police CO's being told to go to hell, the people in Iraq with family members in the disaster area don't even get leave to check on their families.

I have heard for years when they come for the guns it is go time, police and military alike, the wisdom of the ages capsulated in the founders quotes is coming true.


Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards
withdrew,
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not God that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four-
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man- There are only
four things certain since Social Progress began:-
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,

And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wobbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins

When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:02:56 PM EDT

And the entire U.S. armed services the most powerful military force on earth confiscating legally owned fire-arms and taking the property forcefully evicting the lawful property owners is encouraging how ?


STRATIOTES;
I was most definately NOT talking about the disarming of citizens as being "encouraging".
I have been getting mad as hell about the disarmament & forced eviction of the NO folks, and thinking to myself that if that started here, it would be the time I die. You will be able to tell it's me, because they will have to drag my corpse & empty rifle out of a mountain of brass.

Furthermore, you are being dishonest with your reply, because NOWHERE in that article was disarmament & forced evacuation mentioned.

My use of "encouraging" was responding to the "Band of neighbors survived Hurricane Katrina, then fought off looters" ,, as fine an example of a militia as one could hope to see. Some local folks, when realizing what was going on, quickly organized their neighbohood watch program to the next level, armed themselves, set up their tin can perimeter guards, and it WORKED.

I also agree with the R-32 about the ammo drop and resupply of provisions,, maybe just add 1 or 2 current jarheads or grunts to help them with their organization for a day or two, those local folks will do just fine.


Good on 'em, I say.


Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:05:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 3:06:38 PM EDT by STRATIOTES]
She said she still has 42 bullets to expend before she'll be forcibly evacuated.

"Then I hope the men they send to pull me out are 6 feet 2 inches and really cute," she said. "I'll be struggling and flirting at the same time."
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:33:42 PM EDT
Strat, try reading the article again with an open mind.



But the band of neighbors who survived Hurricane Katrina and then fought off looters has not disarmed.



Now the Algiers Point militia has defiantly declared it will not heed any orders for mandatory evacuation.


The USA is alive and well in Algiers Point
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:39:35 PM EDT
Mike_in_Seattle if we get the chance to meet face to face I will gladly provide the information I can not provide here, but what I can say, I have trained with and personely know militia commanders in the disaster zone, I have first hand reports of whats going on in the region, and it is not acceptable.

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:53:06 PM EDT
As for disarming and being evac is bull and its happening as I write and as for Strat where do you guys orginize cause i know a couple of good guys down east of LCR that are serious about the millitia..course as not just for survival but ligistics
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 7:54:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Erex:
As for disarming and being evac is bull and its happening as I write and as for Strat where do you guys orginize cause i know a couple of good guys down east of LCR that are serious about the millitia..course as not just for survival but ligistics



Everything is based off of the instructor cadre, the only rank is based on qualified skills, anyone can work with anyone else using the national Standards

National Militia Standards

Training exercises are held regularly each month, with multi-state joint field training exercises held every other month.

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:34:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 12:47:52 AM EDT by R-32]
First off, to the couple of you that I.M.'d me about myself and Strat...

There is no hate or love lost, STRAT and I have gotten along for years now, and We have gone round and round on the individual soldier issue on AWRM and in person. STRAT is a good man, and he has never ever treated me, or anyone I have seen around him with anything but respect. He is a good man, and very giving of himself. ( A lot more than I am anyway)

Now back to our regular BS session....


STRAT, Im not even going to tear apart your last post, It will take to long, and to be honest Im way to tired right now

I agree with about 90% of your post. ( and Im sure you know that). My point is not to play the blame game and paint all of the troops and responders there with one broad brush stroke. That is no different than the people that say the Militia movement is nothing more than a bunch of Nigger and Jew haters....We both know that it is not true on both accounts.

Im sure that we both agree..

1. Republican or Democrat, This thing was F-d up on the Local,State,and Federal level from the very start.

2. Without coordination, and pre-planning any on the fly plan is bound to backfire in your face. (Have a damn good idea how you are going to react if and when SHTF).

3. People around you that are not ready with #2 can and most likely will be the biggest danger to you, your family, eachother, and any one that is out to help you.

4. Dont goto any area where there are large amounts of people waiting to be evacuated...(You are better off , and safer on your own or with like minded trusted friends/family)

5. If anyone from the Govt comes to tell you to do it for your own good, you are in the wrong place and already F-d up.

Here is a strange read for ya....

By Chris Rose
Columnist

You hear the word “surreal” in every report from this city now. There is no better word for it.

If Salvador Dali showed up here, he wouldn’t be able to make heads or tails of it. Nobody could paint this.

He did that famous painting of the melting clock and our clocks melted at 6:45 the morning of Aug. 29. That’s what the clocks in the French Quarter still say. That’s when time stood still.

The Quarter survived all this; you’ve probably heard that much. Most of what remains unscathed – and I’m using a very relative term here - is a swath of dry land from the Riverbend through Audubon Park, down St. Charles and Tchoupitoulas to the Quarter and into the Bywater.

It’s like a land mass the size of Bermuda, maybe, but with not so many golf courses.

There are other dry outposts in the great beyond – little Key Wests across the city – but I haven’t seen them.

The weather is beautiful, I don’t mind telling you. But if I wrote you a post card, it wouldn’t say Wish You Were Here.

There are still hearty rose bushes blooming on front porches and there are still birds singing in the park. But the park is a huge National Guard encampment.

There are men and women from other towns living there in tents and who have left their families to come help us and they are in the park clearing out the fallen timber. My fellow Americans.

Every damn one of them tells you they’re happy to be here (despite what you’ve heard, it still beats the hell out of Fallujah) and every time I try to thank them – on behalf of all of us - I just lose it. I absolutely melt down.

There is nothing quite as ignominious as weeping in front of a soldier.

This is no environment for a wuss like me. We reporters go to other places to cover wars and disasters and pestilence and famine. There’s no manual to tell you how to do this when it’s your own city.

And I’m telling you: It’s hard.

It’s hard not to get crispy around the edges. It’s hard not to cry. It’s hard not to be very, very afraid.

My colleagues who are down here are warriors. There are a half-dozen of us living in a small house on a side street Uptown. Everyone else has been cleared out.

We have a generator and water and military C-rations and Doritos and smokes and booze. After deadline, the call goes out: “Anyone for some warm brown liquor?” and we sit on the porch in the very, very still of the night and we try to laugh.

Some of these guys lost their houses – everything in them. But they’re here, telling our city’s story.

And they stink. We all stink. We stink together.

We have a bunch of guns but it’s not clear to me if anyone in this “news bureau” knows how to use them.

The California National Guard came by a wanted an accounting of every weapon in the building and they wrote the serial numbers down and apparently our guns are pretty rad because they were all cooing over the .38s.

I guess that’s good to know.

The Guard wanted to know exactly what we had so they would be able to identify – apparently by sound – what guns were in whose hands if anything “went down” after dark here at this house.

That’s not so good to know.

They took all our information and bid us a good day and then sauntered off to retrieve a dead guy on a front porch down the street.

Then the California Highway Patrol – the CHiPs! – came and demanded we turn over our weapons.

What are you going to do? We were certainly outnumbered so we turned over the guns. Then, an hour later, they brought them back. With no explanation.

Whatev. So here we are. Just another day at the office.

Maybe you’ve seen that Times-Picayune advertising slogan before: “News, Sports and More.”

More indeed. You’re getting your money’s worth today.

Chris Rose can be reached at noroses@bellsouth.net.

California seems to be a theam....

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:04:34 PM EDT
America is a idealistic nation, it was founded as a constitutional republic with limited democratic process.

Limited democratic process means a majority vote is used but limited as who can vote and what they can vote for, the law forbids letting unqualified voters to vote money out of the pckets of someone else.

So this applies to Washington state as a constitutional republic state and it applies to state agents in the execution of their office.

The whole idea of the constitutional republic with limited democratic vote is to eliminate state offices as a permanent evil, it applies to police military fire-med-rescue emergency services as you are supposed to work your way out of a job !

Crime feeds the enfrcement officers family, (can be said of most state offices) there is a conflict of interest under the statuatory state, the is no conflict under a natural law state, the peace officer labors to eliminate the position (office) so as not to burden society with a consuming destructive office only.

This applies to this thread in the sense that the militia did what it is supposed to do, the state officer did not do what they were suppsed to do, not only that but when the cheer leader squad pipes up and starts spewing bullshit about how wonderful the state officers are while they betray their oath and the people they serve.

The state has NO authority the state has delegated powers and those powers depend upon the consent of the people.


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Its We the people, that includes state officers, when we assume the Soldier we do not lay asside the citizen, so I do not care what your job is you have a duty to speak out against abuse of "power."

For those that are unfamiliar with me, yes I do come across as dogmatic and sometimes angry but even in the hieghth of foaming at the mouth tirade, be assured my support of the patriotic fellow citizen is unwavering, if anybody is in need of assistance I will be there.




The militia is a voluntary force not associated or under the control of the States except when called out; [ when called into actual service] a permanent or long standing force would be entirely different in make-up and call. -- Alexander Hamilton in Federalist Paper No. 28



Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:25:33 PM EDT
I'm with you Strat. Since when do penny anti laws and fear superceed the Constitution? Stop this erosion. I take care of my own. Bottom line.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:03:44 PM EDT
I wonder if you guys don't see the forest thru the trees on this one.

Me thinks, perhaps, NO and Katrina have handed the courts a very ripe court case involving the direct violation of the right to bear arms? There is hardly a sturdier SHTF scenario in modern day case law, is there?

I for one, while not naive enough to believe that "the process" will prevail just because it should, will be watching for some verdicts in the coming years as this settles out.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:21:05 PM EDT
Law in the gulf coast region has been suspended by declaration of emergency, declared by Bush and ratified by congress.

The law in the region is whatever the "MAN" with the most of and biggest guns says it is !

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:34:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 5:36:09 PM EDT by HABU]
Algiers is across the Mississippi River From NO. It is the home of the largest projects in the area. It's not the most loot worthy area on the West Bank. Good on the millitia!


Link Posted: 9/12/2005 7:45:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STRATIOTES:
Law in the gulf coast region has been suspended by declaration of emergency, declared by Blanco first, (link), then a request was sent by Blanco to President Bush (link), which he granted (link)
and then ratified by congress.

The law in the region is whatever the "MAN" with the most of and biggest guns says it is !




Fixt.

And then she ordered a mandatory evacuation two days after the hurricane hit.



dims......... close the barn after the cow is loose. I repeat, "The cow is loose".

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 8:23:21 PM EDT
The LA governor with emmotional fainting vapors is very bad when peoples lives depend on leadership during such a disaster crisis but Bush having a party while on vacation after appointing a moron crony to head FEMA is also negligence but still niether here nor there when it comes to catastrophic natural disasters as any good conservative knows that your survival is your job and no one elses, the people best able to help is the neighbor just as it has been throughout history, just as the thread topic story displays.

BUT when a super power nation brings military force upon lawful citizens and cnfiscates their means of defense and plunder their property goes beyond what text on screen can convey.


They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when the national guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:17:59 PM EDT
Thanx for the link Strat
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:22:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 1:29:00 PM EDT by MOGWAR]
Pssst CavVet, it's not just a "Dims" thing. Mr. Bush put his friend in charge of FEMA knowing that his only skills were horse training and fabricating resumes, and it was a monumental failure. This whole Republicans can do no wrong thing is a bit silly.

ETA I whole heartedly hope those people have the courage to stand their ground.
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