Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 1/23/2014 6:18:25 AM EDT


Posted on January 22, 2014





Tomorrow, January 23, the Arizona House Judiciary Committee is scheduled to hear House Bill 2103 at 9:30 a.m. in House Hearing Room 4.  HB 2103, introduced by state Representative Kelly Townsend (R-16), will expand eligibility for CCW permits to those persons who are 19 years of age and older with military service including those on active duty, those who have been honorably discharged or those who have been discharged under honorable conditions
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 9:51:55 AM EDT
Anyone have an update on this, or a timeframe it will be out.

Thanks for your time
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:14:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 7:15:31 PM EDT by SinistralRifleman]
Expand constitutional carry to all 18 year olds.  This would not effect reciprocity with other states.

Continuing to deviate from established norms (21 as the minimum age for a permit) other states follow for permit system will make us lose reciprocity with more states.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:33:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Expand constitutional carry to all 18 year olds.  This would not effect reciprocity with other states.

Continuing to deviate from established norms (21 as the minimum age for a permit) other states follow for permit system will make us lose reciprocity with more states.
View Quote

I concur.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 12:55:46 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Expand constitutional carry to all 18 year olds.
View Quote


This.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:03:32 AM EDT
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:52:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 7:15:35 AM EDT by Yelpers]
I really don't understand the military service delineation of the populous.  Are we to assume that a 19 year old in the military has somehow gained more knowledge or maturity than a 19 year old college student?  I'll give you discipline, but knowledge and maturity, nope.  I guarantee they don't allow 19 year olds to carry on the military bases (but then nobody does).  And 19 year olds still can't purchase handguns from dealers, they have to get them from other sources.

So, I'm not quite sure where this came from, or what the purpose is.  To me all teenagers can wait.  You still can't rent a car until your 25.  When a rental agency will rent cars to 19 year olds, ....

If someone can direct me to why there is this need, I'd appreciate reading the argument.

http://legiscan.com/AZ/bill/HB2103/2014

http://azleg.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=22&clip_id=13154

http://www.azcdl.org/html/latest_news.html

I'm seeing nothing on why they bill was written.  Is this just to give a little more business to the CCW permit trainers?  That's all I can come up with.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 9:55:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 10:00:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 12:35:37 PM EDT by Yelpers]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos:


As far as I'm concerned, if you are old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to carry a gun any damn way you want.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos:
Originally Posted By Yelpers:
I really don't understand the military service delineation of the populous.  Are we to assume that a 19 year old in the military has somehow gained more knowledge or maturity than a 19 year old college student?  I'll give you discipline, but knowledge and maturity, nope.  I guarantee they don't allow 19 year olds to carry on the military bases (but then nobody does).  And 19 year olds still can't purchase handguns from dealers, they have to get them from other sources.

So, I'm not quite sure where this came from, or what the purpose is.  To me all teenagers can wait.  You still can't rent a car until your 25.  When a rental agency will rent cars to 19 year olds, ....

If someone can direct me to why there is this need, I'd appreciate reading the argument.

http://legiscan.com/AZ/bill/HB2103/2014

http://azleg.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=22&clip_id=13154

http://www.azcdl.org/html/latest_news.html

I'm seeing nothing on why they bill was written.  Is this just to give a little more business to the CCW permit trainers?  That's all I can come up with.


As far as I'm concerned, if you are old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to carry a gun any damn way you want.


Yes, and you can't drink or gamble until your 21 and you can't rent a car.  Thanks for your service and less than 21 year old comment.  

Still wanting to know why this law was written.  
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 8:47:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yelpers:

Still wanting to know why this law was written.  
View Quote



Presumably because:
a) they figured they had the votes to get this passed
b) they figured that they did NOT have the votes to get a general reduction to 19 passed.

Step by step...

Then a couple years later you go back and drop it to 19 for everyone.
Link Posted: 1/29/2014 4:36:56 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NVGdude:



Presumably because:
a) they figured they had the votes to get this passed
b) they figured that they did NOT have the votes to get a general reduction to 19 passed.

Step by step...

Then a couple years later you go back and drop it to 19 for everyone.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NVGdude:
Originally Posted By Yelpers:

Still wanting to know why this law was written.  



Presumably because:
a) they figured they had the votes to get this passed
b) they figured that they did NOT have the votes to get a general reduction to 19 passed.

Step by step...

Then a couple years later you go back and drop it to 19 for everyone.


This is not why, though.  Why is there a need for 19 year olds to carry a concealed handgun when they can't legally purchase one from a firearm dealer?  Do we have an abundance of 19 year olds that are receiving handguns as gifts or purchasing from individuals that have the need to carry them?   Are military personnel in danger once they leave the base?  Are they being targeted because of their uniforms?  

There are generally proposals as to the need for a new law when it's introduced.  Where's the  Jan. 23rd Video of that conference meeting?
Link Posted: 1/29/2014 4:43:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2014 4:44:12 AM EDT by Thoreau]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yelpers:


This is not why, though.  Why is there a need for 19 year olds to carry a concealed handgun when they can't legally purchase one from a firearm dealer?  Do we have an abundance of 19 year olds that are receiving handguns as gifts or purchasing from individuals that have the need to carry them?   Are military personnel in danger once they leave the base?  Are they being targeted because of their uniforms?  

There are generally proposals as to the need for a new law when it's introduced.  Where's the  Jan. 23rd Video of that conference meeting?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yelpers:
Originally Posted By NVGdude:
Originally Posted By Yelpers:

Still wanting to know why this law was written.  



Presumably because:
a) they figured they had the votes to get this passed
b) they figured that they did NOT have the votes to get a general reduction to 19 passed.

Step by step...

Then a couple years later you go back and drop it to 19 for everyone.


This is not why, though.  Why is there a need for 19 year olds to carry a concealed handgun when they can't legally purchase one from a firearm dealer?  Do we have an abundance of 19 year olds that are receiving handguns as gifts or purchasing from individuals that have the need to carry them?   Are military personnel in danger once they leave the base?  Are they being targeted because of their uniforms?  

There are generally proposals as to the need for a new law when it's introduced.  Where's the  Jan. 23rd Video of that conference meeting?


I'm not sure of the real purpose of this bill or what sparked it either, but I think the better question is if there is a 'need' to PREVENT a 19 year old from carrying.  If there isn't, then there shouldn't be any laws preventing them from having the same rights as any other adult.  If 18 is the age where a person becomes an adult, and gets the rest of the bill of rights, then the 2nd amendment should apply, in full force, for them just as it does a 21 year old or anyone else.  

I also agree with others that the drinking age is rather idiotic too, but that another discussion/bill proposal some day.  I also think the age to buy a handgun should be 18 as well.
Link Posted: 1/29/2014 4:51:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2014 6:17:29 AM EDT by Yelpers]
Well, if the end game is to get more CCW permit holders into the Universities with a future endeavor to try and get the feds to lower the age to buy a handgun, then I can see this as a worthy effort.   However, if this has the effect of slowing or hampering a National Concealed Carry law, then it's not a good idea.

Lowering the age to buy a handgun to 19 nationally seems like mountain climbing.  I suppose it should start somewhere, though.

Also, if this is designed as an incentive to get young conservative military personnel to become Arizona residents, that makes sense.  It's actually quite clever if the Republicans are doing that.  However, leaving only an avenue of gift giving and gun shows to acquire a handgun doesn't paint the best picture.  Trying to find a 21 year old to gift you a firearm doesn't seem like a good idea.  Gun shows work but I don't think most Arizonans even know you can sell a handgun to an 18 year old.  And I wouldn't want to get caught up in a straw purchase.
Link Posted: 1/29/2014 5:25:45 AM EDT
One of the main reasons I maintain a permit at all is reciprocity with other states.  If this passes AZ will lose reciprocity with every state that has 21 as a minimum age for permits.  We have constitutional carry now, and 18-20 year olds can open carry or carry in vehicles without a permit.  I fail to see how this helps the gun community as a whole?

What out of state permit should I get for when we invariably lose reciprocity?
Top Top