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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/9/2005 12:51:29 PM EDT
I just heard recently that the CCW training requirement has been reduced from 16 hours to eight. Anybody have more info on this?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:55:03 PM EDT
gotta wait 2 more days
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 1:18:37 PM EDT
more specifically, it drops from 16 to 8 hours and it is effectife for 5 years rather than 4 and I believe to renew it is now 4 hours instead of 8. But this all comes into effect on the 11th
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:22:59 PM EDT
Woohoo!

I've been putting off getting my CCW because I couldn't dedicate an entire weekend to the class.

Looks like that's fixed as of Friday.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:41:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KBaker:
I just heard recently that the CCW training requirement has been reduced from 16 hours to eight. Anybody have more info on this?



Yes it has. It also knocks Az CCW off reciprocity lists across the US.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 4:12:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By KBaker:
I just heard recently that the CCW training requirement has been reduced from 16 hours to eight. Anybody have more info on this?



Yes it has. It also knocks Az CCW off reciprocity lists across the US.

are you sure? Utah is only 8 hours and has more reciprocity than AZ
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:58:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 7:01:29 PM EDT by Az_Redneck]
It does NOTHING to reciprocity... The training has been reduced to 8 hours for initial certification and 2 hours for re-certification. There is no written test for re-certification, but you will still need to qualify. The written test has been reduced to 20 questions with the 10 round qualification. The permit is good for 5 years. It DOES NOT extend current permits by one year either. You must still go through re-certification.

Az_Redneck
CCW Instructor (Arizona, Florida, Utah)
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 7:30:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Az_Redneck:
It does NOTHING to reciprocity... The training has been reduced to 8 hours for initial certification and 2 hours for re-certification. There is no written test for re-certification, but you will still need to qualify. The written test has been reduced to 20 questions with the 10 round qualification. The permit is good for 5 years. It DOES NOT extend current permits by one year either. You must still go through re-certification.

Az_Redneck
CCW Instructor (Arizona, Florida, Utah)



Really?

So all the states that now accept Az CCW with the clause that training must be "comparable" are still going to accept our CCW now that our training is no longer comparable?

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:39:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Az_Redneck:
It does NOTHING to reciprocity... The training has been reduced to 8 hours for initial certification and 2 hours for re-certification. There is no written test for re-certification, but you will still need to qualify. The written test has been reduced to 20 questions with the 10 round qualification. The permit is good for 5 years. It DOES NOT extend current permits by one year either. You must still go through re-certification.

Az_Redneck
CCW Instructor (Arizona, Florida, Utah)



Really?

So all the states that now accept Az CCW with the clause that training must be "comparable" are still going to accept our CCW now that our training is no longer comparable?




So far I haven't heard of any of those states revisiting their criteria and they still have AZ listed on their state web sites. But you are correct in your theory, some state could take another look and knock us off their list at some time. So be sure (as always) to check each state just before you visit it.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:46:42 AM EDT
You know what will really bug me, I guarantee you the class prices will not drop in half even though the teachers are now being paid half the time.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:26:06 AM EDT
They also did something with weapon certifed Detention Officers and Correction Officers where they are exempt from the class all they have to do is apply for the permit...

Anyone else hear this? I was reading around on different Bills on the House Webtsite...
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:26:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:
You know what will really bug me, I guarantee you the class prices will not drop in half even though the teachers are now being paid half the time.



So are they supposed to take a 50% cut in salary because the law changed? Fuck that! The law changing is a convenience to us. The instructors shouldnt take a hit on it. If anything they should raise their prices for the initial boom it will get. Its business man, they arent there to be your friend.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:39:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ianq:
They also did something with weapon certifed Detention Officers and Correction Officers where they are exempt from the class all they have to do is apply for the permit...

Anyone else hear this? I was reading around on different Bills on the House Webtsite...



Could that be HR218? I don't know, but I'll do some poking to see what I can come up with.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:11:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Az_Redneck:
It does NOTHING to reciprocity... The training has been reduced to 8 hours for initial certification and 2 hours for re-certification. There is no written test for re-certification, but you will still need to qualify. The written test has been reduced to 20 questions with the 10 round qualification. The permit is good for 5 years. It DOES NOT extend current permits by one year either. You must still go through re-certification.

Az_Redneck
CCW Instructor (Arizona, Florida, Utah)



Really?

So all the states that now accept Az CCW with the clause that training must be "comparable" are still going to accept our CCW now that our training is no longer comparable?



Many states have no training requirement at all, and many more only require a "demonstration of competence", meaning a firearm's safety course, DD214, prior law enforcement work, a CCW from another state, etc. That was in our initial draft of the bill, but the sponsor didn't believe we'd ever get it, so ... Eight hours is comparable with most of the states that do require a minimum time frame for their course.

AZ's 16 hours was matched only by NM, and they based their standard on ours. So who, exactly, are we comparing ourselves to?


Originally Posted By Ianq:
They also did something with weapon certifed Detention Officers and Correction Officers where they are exempt from the class all they have to do is apply for the permit...

Anyone else hear this? I was reading around on different Bills on the House Webtsite...



AZ Senate Bill 1269, signed by the Governor on 4/11/05. You can read the bill here ...

SB1269

HTH.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 3:24:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 3:25:10 PM EDT by K-9]

Originally Posted By a320az:

Originally Posted By Dace:
You know what will really bug me, I guarantee you the class prices will not drop in half even though the teachers are now being paid half the time.



So are they supposed to take a 50% cut in salary because the law changed? Fuck that! The law changing is a convenience to us. The instructors shouldnt take a hit on it. If anything they should raise their prices for the initial boom it will get. Its business man, they arent there to be your friend.



I dont care one way or another but how did you conclude a 50% cut in salary?
was 16hrs and now is 8hrs = the same amount for the same amount of time.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:02:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 5:03:44 PM EDT by a320az]

Originally Posted By K-9:

Originally Posted By a320az:

Originally Posted By Dace:
You know what will really bug me, I guarantee you the class prices will not drop in half even though the teachers are now being paid half the time.



So are they supposed to take a 50% cut in salary because the law changed? Fuck that! The law changing is a convenience to us. The instructors shouldnt take a hit on it. If anything they should raise their prices for the initial boom it will get. Its business man, they arent there to be your friend.



I dont care one way or another but how did you conclude a 50% cut in salary?
was 16hrs and now is 8hrs = the same amount for the same amount of time.



The way it sounded to me was that since the training would be half the price should be half.

quote...

I guarantee you the class prices will not drop in half even though the teachers are now being paid half the time.

Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:48:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:
You know what will really bug me, I guarantee you the class prices will not drop in half even though the teachers are now being paid half the time.



You're the consumer, vote with your feet or you could go into business yourself and be the Wal-mart of CCW or something...hehe.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 9:43:04 AM EDT
Why do you make the assumption that the class provider should be paid on a "hourly" basis? It's not like they are your employee and get paid by the hour. They are independent contractors who have a flat rate for a job. That job is to set up and run a program that is authorized by DPS, in compliance with law, to qualify you to obtain a CCW permit.

If you stayed after class to ask questions, should they charge you more because it took them longer to satisfy your needs?
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 11:11:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Joe_Blacke:
Why do you make the assumption that the class provider should be paid on a "hourly" basis? It's not like they are your employee and get paid by the hour. They are independent contractors who have a flat rate for a job. That job is to set up and run a program that is authorized by DPS, in compliance with law, to qualify you to obtain a CCW permit.

If you stayed after class to ask questions, should they charge you more because it took them longer to satisfy your needs?



He's the consumer. He can have any expectation he wants. They may not be his employee, but they are working from the basis of his dollars. Though his expectation may or may not fit the reality that it takes to do business.

For me, I figure I'm paying for an end product, not by the hour. For example, I've charged people a flat fee to do different things on their computer. They've paid me for the job and my knowledge and expertise in computers. A friend of mine used to say, "Never install memory in front of the client." Because the time frame is very short to install memory, but it involved knowledge that may have cost the client many hours to find out which memory to buy, how much memory is needed for what the client does on the computer, how to open the computer case, how not to kill the computer while the case is open, knowing what memory looks like, how properly get the memory in the slots, how to test and see if the memory is operating properly, what steps to take if errors crop up and if the errors are related to the memory or not. Suppose I got paid $35 to spend a minute and a half to do that, I saved the client 7 hours spread over 4 weeks of lost productivity, etc.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 12:26:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 9:43:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 10:09:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TREETOP:
Posting here to remind myself I need a renewal ASAP.




Told you I would take care of you... You have my number...

(That sounded kinda gay huh?)
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 10:48:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Az_Redneck:

Originally Posted By TREETOP:
Posting here to remind myself I need a renewal ASAP.




Told you I would take care of you... You have my number...

(That sounded kinda gay huh?)



Very....
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 9:07:48 AM EDT
Damn, it's not like it's a fortune to get the CCW.
Most here spend more on a pair of shoes made in china.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 10:09:06 AM EDT
I waited untill the 12th to send my renewal in in order to have the new law apply to my CCW. The last one I did only took 10 days. I still haven't received my new card. Anyone send theirs in on the 11th or 12th and got their card back? My guess is DPS is swamped with renewals sent at the same time. I'm good till Sept. 18th.
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