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Posted: 7/6/2021 8:26:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2021 8:27:21 PM EDT by jimmybcool]
Howdy all,

OK, I have a 3200 sqft house in the valley.  Last year I purchased all new AC systems.  One on each side of the house.  I ended up with 2 systems from Goodman.  Sized at 4 ton, R410a, 16 SEER heat pump systems with variable speed.

They were installed last in July of 2019.  Worked fantastic that year and all of 2020.

This year we had a few hiccups on one unit.  First a capacitor failed in it which is no big deal since I purchased an extended 10 year warranty.  They fixed that but had to install a home made capacitor made out of two capacitors in series.  System worked but seemed like it was straining thereafter to maintain the set temperature in that side if the house.  I said OK I'll wait until you can come out and replace it with an OEM version.

Fast forward to today and a new issue arose where the system kept shutting down.  Was a different issue of the condensation line monitoring was seeing water backing up from a clogged drain.  OK doing it's job they come out again and fix that.

Job is finished at about noon.  I go out run errands.  Come home and fall asleep (the other side of the house which has always worked fine).  I wake up and discover the side of the house that has been troublesome is 81 degrees.  It is set for 79.  The first two years this system was in the temperature was always perfect.  No problems.  No matter how hot out it got.  Heck I never heard or felt the fans running.  Was awesome.  So I am "assuming" there is still a problem and my electric bill will be higher and I can't get the house down to where it is supposed to be and it is straining.

I call vendor back again.  I am told this is normal on hot days and most houses in the valley have trouble staying at temp on hot days.  That some are even doing well if they maintain a 20 degree variance with the outside temp.

I would appreciate replies from folks who know what they are talking about.  I "feel" I am being fed BS.  But I'm doing my research before I take this further.
Link Posted: 7/6/2021 8:36:23 PM EDT
That unit should hold temperature unless it's grossly undersized*.

There are certainly people with older units that are grossly undersized or just not capable that Joe Blow at the AC store could think you are without looking. And there are still people around with Swamp Coolers, and those just don't do shit when the humidity is up during monsoon season (i.e. 'now')

You may need to get someone else out to look at it. Pick one of the big names running around town. They ain't cheap, but they're also not big because they're screwing around with everyone, either.

*-You aren't trying to cool a house with the infamous 'Arizona Room', are you? (A patio that's had 4 walls grafted on) Or a converted Garage or somesuch? Those can tend to not have anywhere near enough insulation to allow an AC unit to beat the heat and often need to be closed off in the summer.
Link Posted: 7/6/2021 8:44:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ASUsax:
That unit should hold temperature unless it's grossly undersized*.

There are certainly people with older units that are grossly undersized or just not capable that Joe Blow at the AC store could think you are without looking. And there are still people around with Swamp Coolers, and those just don't do shit when the humidity is up during monsoon season (i.e. 'now')

You may need to get someone else out to look at it. Pick one of the big names running around town. They ain't cheap, but they're also not big because they're screwing around with everyone, either.

*-You aren't trying to cool a house with the infamous 'Arizona Room', are you? (A patio that's had 4 walls grafted on) Or a converted Garage or somesuch? Those can tend to not have anywhere near enough insulation to allow an AC unit to beat the heat and often need to be closed off in the summer.
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Thanks.  No it is a system they sized and sold to me in July 2019.  All new top to bottom.  I did not pick the cheapest option.  I'm not poor and I don't like messing with stuff.   And no AZ room.  All original walls and design.  Exactly what they saw when the designed the units.

I agree with the first part - it should hold temp.  And it did from July 2019 until mid-July 2021.  Suddenly it isn't supposed to?  Sounds like BS to me.

I rechecked their history with both the AZ Registrar of Contractors and BBB.  They have zero complaints.  

Link Posted: 7/6/2021 8:58:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jimmybcool:
I call vendor back again.  I am told this is normal on hot days and most houses in the valley have trouble staying at temp on hot days.  That some are even doing well if they maintain a 20 degree variance with the outside temp......
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Sounds like BS to me.  
20 degrees variance means you have really bad leaks and/or poor insulation, or a screwed up AC.

My house is 60 years old and should have 6 tons of cooling, and the AC is a 5 ton unit over 23 years old, and can maintain up to a 40 degree variance.

Link Posted: 7/6/2021 9:11:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By azcheesehead:


Sounds like BS to me.  
20 degrees variance means you have really bad leaks and/or poor insulation, or a screwed up AC.

My house is 60 years old and should have 6 tons of cooling, and the AC is a 5 ton unit over 23 years old, and can maintain up to a 40 degree variance.

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Thanks.  I mean - it had no issues the first two summers.  And when he said 20 degrees I said "what?  If it's 115 out I'm live with 95 in the house?."  He didn't seem to grasp the importance of what he said.

Reality is the AC feels OK right now.  It just isn't returning to 79 as set.  The middle room is not getting down to the set temp.  And it means it is running non-stop.  That means all the efficiencies I thought I was buying are out the window - I think.

I have a feeling I'll be in touch with the owner to find out if this is his last word on it.  But I am waiting to hear from an AC professional here to back up my thoughts.  I do know I will not accept this sudden inability to maintain 79 on even the hottest of days.


Link Posted: 7/7/2021 7:28:17 AM EDT
My first guess would be a refrigerant leak.

I wouldn't wait very long for the original installer to respond, and would just get someone else to look at it.

By running continuously you run the risk of damaging your system.
Link Posted: 7/7/2021 7:46:27 PM EDT
Well they were out today to fix the other side.  And voila.  Everything now works as it should and no problems maintaining temperature.  He pissed me off needlessly with the BS it was too hot.  

Thanks for replies.
Link Posted: 7/7/2021 7:50:16 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jimmybcool:
Well they were out today to fix the other side.  And voila.  Everything now works as it should and no problems maintaining temperature.  He pissed me off needlessly with the BS it was too hot.  

Thanks for replies.
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I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about that, this time of year they're talking to a lot of people and they might have thought you were someone else or had a different issue.

I'm glad it's working now. It's really f'ing hot.
Link Posted: 7/7/2021 8:43:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ASUsax:


I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about that, this time of year they're talking to a lot of people and they might have thought you were someone else or had a different issue.

I'm glad it's working now. It's really f'ing hot.
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Yeah don't think they were mistaken but it's in the past so long as the system works.  I paid waaaaayyyy too much for new AC units to be told they won't keep my house at 79 in any heat wave AZ can throw at it.  
Link Posted: 7/8/2021 9:13:42 PM EDT
And the problem returned today.  I've spoken with some AC experts online.  I have a 2 stage system and some of them are wondering if the second stage ever kicks on.  Gonna pursue it with my contractor and if that fails hire another one to come in a figure it out.  Not gonna accept "it can only go down to 82 when it's really hot outside".  That is BS

Link Posted: 7/9/2021 5:38:42 PM EDT
I hope this gets fixed for you, everyone in AZ knows what a huge pain in the ass this can be.

And the 20 degree variance with the outside being something normal is complete BS. The 20 degree variance is usually what you expect from the temperature of the air going into the intake vs the temperature of the air coming out of the register.
Link Posted: 7/9/2021 9:07:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LV1976:
I hope this gets fixed for you, everyone in AZ knows what a huge pain in the ass this can be.

And the 20 degree variance with the outside being something normal is complete BS. The 20 degree variance is usually what you expect from the temperature of the air going into the intake vs the temperature of the air coming out of the register.
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Sent them one last email yesterday.  Response is it takes up to 48 hours to reply.  If they stick with the position it's normal that a new AC can't maintain 79 degrees then I'll hire another contractor and if he fixes it charge it back to the ones I have a warranty with.
Link Posted: 7/10/2021 11:18:34 AM EDT
IMHO, as a Goodman ac owner I can only say I will never buy a Goodman again. I bought my 5 ton unit 4.5 years ago and have had to have the inner coil, and Freon replaced , a fan, 2 capacitors , 4 failures in 4.5 years . The inner coil was replaced under warrantee ,but the labor and Freon was on me . I bought the Goodman for the attractive low price . The next time I will buy an American Standard or Trane ,both are Made by Ingersoll Rand . Sometimes the best is cheaper in the long run .
Link Posted: 7/10/2021 3:43:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GONIF:
IMHO, as a Goodman ac owner I can only say I will never buy a Goodman again. I bought my 5 ton unit 4.5 years ago and have had to have the inner coil, and Freon replaced , a fan, 2 capacitors , 4 failures in 4.5 years . The inner coil was replaced under warrantee ,but the labor and Freon was on me . I bought the Goodman for the attractive low price . The next time I will buy an American Standard or Trane ,both are Made by Ingersoll Rand . Sometimes the best is cheaper in the long run .
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When I bought I wasn't under the impression this was the cheapest option.  They sold it as a good brand.  First two years all was well.  Last month both 4 ton units have had a capacitor replaced and one of the units seems unable to keep it's side of the house at 79 degrees.  This will be resolved.  I have yet to meet a homeowner here that says "Oh yeah I can't keep my huse properly cooled either it's normal".
Link Posted: 7/10/2021 4:13:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GONIF:
....... The next time I will buy an American Standard or Trane ,both are Made by Ingersoll Rand ........
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That is all I will purchase, also.
Goodman is a bargain brand.
IMO the OP needs to find an honest AC contractor.
Link Posted: 7/11/2021 6:29:05 PM EDT
All I can say is that my Trane Variable has had no trouble at all keeping my entire house at 68-72 degrees, even through that really hot week we just had in June.. I keeps it crisp..
Link Posted: 7/11/2021 6:36:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By EdmundGTP:
All I can say is that my Trane Variable has had no trouble at all keeping my entire house at 68-72 degrees, even through that really hot week we just had in June.. I keeps it crisp..
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Yeah I'm not asking for much.  79 is good for me.  And prior to the breakdown 2 weeks ago when they replaced a capacitor I never noticed the fan running or heard anything.  But the temp stayed rock solid on what I set it.  

Now on hot days over 108 it seems like no bueno and rises to 81-82 on that side.  Mine is also a variable speed and my concern is it never kicks into the second speed and while the compressor might be doing it's job the fan speed doesn't send enough cold air down the ducts.  Clearly if it doesn't reach the set temp that means it never shuts off.  I'm paying more for electric and wearing out the system.  

I am not accepting the response that everyone has problems keeping their set temp in hot weather.  Plain out bullshit that is.  It will get contentious if I have to spend money with another contractor after buying a 10 year warranty.
Link Posted: 7/11/2021 7:55:32 PM EDT
We just got back into town from vacation and our 3 year old Goodman brand ac was not working at all.  Called an independent repair person out and it turned out to be a capacitor ($420 total) which kinda shocked me as I found the exact match part on amazon for $17!      The reviews I’m seeing above are not making me feel assured on Goodman quality/reliability...
Link Posted: 7/11/2021 8:02:36 PM EDT
I'm no expert in AC systems, but if they keep telling you that your system is not capable of keeping your house at 79, that is completely unacceptable BS.  I'd find a new AC guy ASAP.  

Have you measured the air temperature that comes out of the air vents?  My AC spits out 55 degrees at the closest vent to my air handler, and 62 at the farthest vent, air intake is about 78 degrees (what I keep my house set at during the summer).

My parents, and now me, have always used John's Refrigeration (480-648-2400) for our heating/cooling work,  30+ years.  Always had exceptional service from them.
Link Posted: 7/11/2021 9:19:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AT-ST83:
I'm no expert in AC systems, but if they keep telling you that your system is not capable of keeping your house at 79, that is completely unacceptable BS.  I'd find a new AC guy ASAP.  

Have you measured the air temperature that comes out of the air vents?  My AC spits out 55 degrees at the closest vent to my air handler, and 62 at the farthest vent, air intake is about 78 degrees (what I keep my house set at during the summer).

My parents, and now me, have always used John's Refrigeration (480-648-2400) for our heating/cooling work,  30+ years.  Always had exceptional service from them.
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Crazy me - I'm expecting the AC guys who sold me a 10 year warranty to check those things when it doesn't work to set temp.  And the next discussion with them will include things like Registrar of Contractors and lawyers if I hear anything other than we'll get out there and do a complete check.  

I am not accepting this result.  The only question is will they fix it or do I have to hire someone else and then go after them for default of contract.

And like above I am not so happy with the Goodman name right now.  BOTH my units needed that capacitor replaced in less than 2 full years.

Link Posted: 7/11/2021 9:40:44 PM EDT
One thing to consider as well when you do find a new A/C service company, ask them to take a look at the ducting layout in the house.  A/C subcontractors for new builds tend to be fairly lazy and not too concerned about quality installs (which is often why people have all kinds of problems on new builds, regardless of unit manufacture). That includes laying the ducting, the welds on the piping, the drain tubes, everything. Chas Roberts for example, has an unmatched reputation of shitty new build installations all across the valley.  But as I was saying, have them take a look at the ducting layout, there could be room for huge improvement.
Link Posted: 7/12/2021 9:57:52 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jimmybcool:


When I bought I wasn't under the impression this was the cheapest option.  They sold it as a good brand.  First two years all was well.  Last month both 4 ton units have had a capacitor replaced and one of the units seems unable to keep it's side of the house at 79 degrees.  This will be resolved.  I have yet to meet a homeowner here that says "Oh yeah I can't keep my huse properly cooled either it's normal".
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Not trying to come off as rude but of course they are going say that they are good units, thats the brand they are selling. Never heard anything good about Goodman.
Link Posted: 7/12/2021 10:00:58 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BeardownAZ:


Not trying to come off as rude but of course they are going say that they are good units, thats the brand they are selling. Never heard anything good about Goodman.
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Not rude at all.  They quoted several different brands so it wasn't the only choice.  And not the cheapest either.  

Regarding ducting discussed above the house is 22 years old and never had an issue maintaining temp prior to the replacement of the capacitor.  Could be irrelevant or maybe it wasn't the only thing that failed.
Link Posted: 7/12/2021 12:17:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LV1976:
One thing to consider as well when you do find a new A/C service company, ask them to take a look at the ducting layout in the house.  A/C subcontractors for new builds tend to be fairly lazy and not too concerned about quality installs (which is often why people have all kinds of problems on new builds, regardless of unit manufacture). That includes laying the ducting, the welds on the piping, the drain tubes, everything. Chas Roberts for example, has an unmatched reputation of shitty new build installations all across the valley.  But as I was saying, have them take a look at the ducting layout, there could be room for huge improvement.
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You're so right about that. I'm dealing with Chas Roberts currently and the shit job they've done on my shitty new build. I've been out of my house for a week as it won't cool below 89-90⁰ in the evening. It's infuriating.

How I've gone from a 2 story single unit house built in 2000 that will hold 72 all day, to a new energy efficient, spray foam home that won't cool for shit is perplexing. They too are falling back on the 20⁰ difference from outside air temp.
Link Posted: 7/12/2021 1:22:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2021 1:25:24 PM EDT by GONIF]
IMHO, you best bet is to contact Goodman direct. Explain your problem, and your dissatisfaction with the unit, dealer, and installer/ Tec. Tell them you paid good money for a new ac unit and it will not preform . Have them send out another Tec to diagnose the problem . Is the vendor ,installer, company an ROC listed company ?  https://www.goodmanmfg.com/about/contact-us
To speak with a Goodman Homeowner Support representative from within the United States, please call

1-877-254-4729
Link Posted: 7/12/2021 3:25:10 PM EDT
Two of my neighbors keep their house at 69, so I say OP has been misled.

They have double the solar panels on their houses compared to mine.  I keep mine at 76.
Link Posted: 7/12/2021 3:56:21 PM EDT
I have 2 units on the house. One is a Goodman that is around 20 years old.  The only problem it has had, was the power disconnect overheated and melted some plastic. That was an easy fix.  The second unit, not a Goodman, has had problems since it was installed. Turning the ac on for the first time, it blew warm air.  Both of the coils had leaks, from the factory and the refrigerant had leaked.  This unit is 11 years old and I don’t think it has ever gone a year without something needing replacement.  I’m supposed to have a new compressor installed on Friday, but they have rescheduled twice, because they cannot find the right one.

I have home warranty through Sears, so there is zero out of pocket costs. The problem now is that the compressor keeps over heating and shuts off. It takes around an hour or so for it to cool off enough to come back on. Both of the units do blow low 50’s to upper 40’s.
Link Posted: 7/12/2021 4:34:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GONIF:
IMHO, you best bet is to contact Goodman direct. Explain your problem, and your dissatisfaction with the unit, dealer, and installer/ Tec. Tell them you paid good money for a new ac unit and it will not preform . Have them send out another Tec to diagnose the problem . Is the vendor ,installer, company an ROC listed company ?  https://www.goodmanmfg.com/about/contact-us
To speak with a Goodman Homeowner Support representative from within the United States, please call

1-877-254-4729
View Quote


Thanks Gonif.  I am waiting for one more day where it fails to hold temp and then I kick this off.

First I contact my contractor.  They get another chance to right this.

Then I believe you have a great suggestion and I'll go there.  I will contact Goodman direct.

This will be resolved.  Today so far unit is maintaining the set 79 temp.  If it's going to fail it is usually afternoon.  We shall see.
Link Posted: 7/12/2021 9:00:21 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GONIF:
The next time I will buy an American Standard or Trane ,both are Made by Ingersoll Rand .
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I've come to find out that some Trane parts are specific to Trane, which can be a bit of a hassle when a repair is needed. Do you happen to know if that also applies to American Standard since they are both made by Ingersoll Rand?
Link Posted: 7/13/2021 11:26:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2021 11:28:28 AM EDT by GONIF]
They are mostly identical ,and all parts are available  for them .It is strictly a marketing thing that they are branded that way ,and the design, quality and major pars are the same. https://www.airconditioningarizona.com/trane-vs-american-standard-what-is-the-difference/#:~:text=American%20Standard%20and%20Trane%20Are%20Exa­ctly%20the%20Same
Link Posted: 7/13/2021 2:11:12 PM EDT
Well talked to them again.  The guy who was on vacation last week (I think he is the manager) started in again on the ambient temp and 20 degree etc and I cut him short.  Told him I had the throw the BS flag on that.  He said the older units can go colder but the newer ones aren't designed to.  If true there will be hell to pay.  They are coming Thursday AM.  

Also found my paperwork for the extended warranty.  It is ASURE with Goodman direct.  

If these guys can not fix it I call another vendor Friday.  And if they installed a system that isn't capable of maintaining 75 degrees on the hottest days here there will be a reckoning.  

Link Posted: 7/13/2021 7:16:35 PM EDT
I would be inclined to agree with the 20 degree statement if they were talking about the temperature INSIDE your house (example; air intake is 79, and it spits out 59), and not the temperature OUTSIDE your house.  The air being conditioned does not come from outside your home...it comes from inside your home, obviously.

Clearly, there are MILLIONS of homes in AZ with AC units capable of working in the summer heat, 110+ OUTSIDE temperature.  

Why would any AC manufacturer make an unit that couldn't do that?  More importantly, why would any AZ HVAC company sell a unit that couldn't keep your home cool below 80 degrees?  

Are you or your contractor absolutely inept with communication skills?  Does one of you not speak/understand English with enough fluency to get your point across or understand it?  

Call the manufacturer directly today...and get a new contractor.
Link Posted: 7/13/2021 10:44:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2021 10:45:36 PM EDT by f40]
In my experience most new builds are sticking to the house will cool 20⁰ below outdoor ambient.

My current house has a conditioned attic, is 2300 sq ft with only a 3.5 ton unit. It definitely struggles to keep up during the evening, even with super cooling during the day, this is on an E-W lot. My thermostat is set to 76 and the house is 79⁰ currently after cooking dinner. Unfortunately the ROC can't do anything to address this as it's within their numbers. Based on what I found city of Phoenix requires a 30⁰ difference in rentals only, but I haven't seen anything similar elsewhere. City of Surprise also calls for 20⁰ in the 2018 international building code they use. Welcome to my headache.
Link Posted: 7/14/2021 1:43:17 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By f40:
In my experience most new builds are sticking to the house will cool 20⁰ below outdoor ambient.
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That doesn't make any sense at all.  It regularly reaches 110-115 during the summer...and you are telling me that owners of new homes are happy with their brand new home only being able to reach 80-85 degrees?  

My home was built in 2017 by Blandford...2,700 sq ft, single story, two ground mounted 3.5-ton Trane units.  I have zero problems keeping my home at 77 degrees, all summer long.  On the hottest of days, they kick on every 30 minutes.
Link Posted: 7/14/2021 8:11:14 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By f40:
In my experience most new builds are sticking to the house will cool 20⁰ below outdoor ambient.

My current house has a conditioned attic, is 2300 sq ft with only a 3.5 ton unit. It definitely struggles to keep up during the evening, even with super cooling during the day, this is on an E-W lot. My thermostat is set to 76 and the house is 79⁰ currently after cooking dinner. Unfortunately the ROC can't do anything to address this as it's within their numbers. Based on what I found city of Phoenix requires a 30⁰ difference in rentals only, but I haven't seen anything similar elsewhere. City of Surprise also calls for 20⁰ in the 2018 international building code they use. Welcome to my headache.
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Thing is - this unit had no problems before the failure and repair.  And ALL my neighbors (I've polled about 20 golf pals by now) tell me no problems with maintaining whatever they set down to one guy who keeps his house at 75.  

They are coming out tomorrow AM.  If they say it's all working fine then I contact Goodman direct.  I do not accept this 20 degree concept.  That means if it hits 117 again (which it did earlier in the year) I am supposed to accept 97 in my house.
Link Posted: 7/14/2021 5:06:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jimmybcool:
Well talked to them again.  The guy who was on vacation last week (I think he is the manager) started in again on the ambient temp and 20 degree etc and I cut him short.  Told him I had the throw the BS flag on that.  He said the older units can go colder but the newer ones aren't designed to.  If true there will be hell to pay.  They are coming Thursday AM.  

Also found my paperwork for the extended warranty.  It is ASURE with Goodman direct.  

If these guys can not fix it I call another vendor Friday.  And if they installed a system that isn't capable of maintaining 75 degrees on the hottest days here there will be a reckoning.  

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Thats still unadulterated bullshit. I have a newer unit (2019 I think?) York that replaced a 15 year old Goodman. It cools almost too well.  There is no home HVAC unit in the valley, properly functioning and sized for the space needing cooling, that can only manage a 20° differential between the interior and outside ambient temperature.  If that were the limit of "new units" everybody would go back to using evaporative coolers.  Stop wasting your time with that HVAC company.  Additionally, do everyone in the AZHTF a favor by naming the company so we know who to avoid.
Link Posted: 7/15/2021 2:43:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2021 2:45:28 AM EDT by jdrautoworks]
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the 20 degree split is between the furthest register (duct) and the main return not ambient and duct.

Also correct me but those compressors should be variable or not no "2-stage".

It is not a ducting issue if nothing has changed since the install regarding the ducting if it worked fine before.

Sounds like a control issue, do you have a smart t-stat? Intermittent issue sounds like control issue or maybe condenser blockage possibly, could be a metering orfice but I'm not sure what they put in home units.

Could also be a over-charge issue as well...

I would quit dicking around with the contractor if and call Coleman/Goodman and start there.

ETA:  Post the specs/model and I'll get you some tech info that might help.
Link Posted: 7/15/2021 11:53:28 AM EDT
The longer you wait to contact Goodman directly ,the longer your going to be uncomfortable .
Link Posted: 7/15/2021 2:59:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jdrautoworks:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the 20 degree split is between the furthest register (duct) and the main return not ambient and duct.

Also correct me but those compressors should be variable or not no "2-stage".

It is not a ducting issue if nothing has changed since the install regarding the ducting if it worked fine before.

Sounds like a control issue, do you have a smart t-stat? Intermittent issue sounds like control issue or maybe condenser blockage possibly, could be a metering orfice but I'm not sure what they put in home units.

Could also be a over-charge issue as well...

I would quit dicking around with the contractor if and call Coleman/Goodman and start there.

ETA:  Post the specs/model and I'll get you some tech info that might help.
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20-ish degree delta should definitely be between return and discharge of the duct system "INSIDE", or within the controlled environment.  

For my Trane variable, within the thermostat, and on the monitoring app, it identifies 2 "stages" of both heating and cooling.  I believe the differentiating factor in this case is that it's considered "Stage 1" cooling if the operating speed of the compressor is below a certain threshold percentage, and it becomes "Stage 2" if it goes over that percentage.  There's probably some other operating condition involved as well.  This time of year it's mostly running under "Stage 2" cooling operation.

Not familiar with how the Goodman system operates, and whether it bears any resemblance to the Trane, but in either case the variable system should/would be very different from a "2 SPEED"  unit.   "Speeds" and "stages" are often conflated when discussing this stuff, it seems.


Link Posted: 7/15/2021 8:09:37 PM EDT
I thought the 20 degree thing was with swamp coolers.

The wife and I got rid of the P.O.S. evaporative cooler on the roof for a real air conditioning unit ten years ago.  She couldn't stand the six weeks of 'monsoon' where it turned the house into Fort Polk, LA.

110 outside, and 69 in her sewing room is the norm these days.

Oh, it's a Trane.
Link Posted: 7/15/2021 8:25:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By LV1976:
......
 Stop wasting your time with that HVAC company.


 Additionally, do everyone in the AZHTF a favor by naming the company so we know who to avoid.
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Yup.

And they are scumbags who need to be outed.
Link Posted: 7/15/2021 9:04:14 PM EDT
Will consider outing them.  Not something I do casually on any company.

Update today.  They came to the house while I was away playing golf but wife was home.  Great.  Not really.  They fiddled around out side looking at the compressors but never touched the air handler or thermostat.  Never entered the house or garage.  

Sent me an email all is well but the room with the thermostat has lots of windows facing west.  And no window shades etc. Hmm.

I responded to them clearing up that little confusion with two pictures showing that in fact those large windows DO have shades which we lower in the afternoon, and that we have sun screens, and dual pane sealed glass, and an overhang patio that blocks most of the direct sunlight.  Plus the fact those windows existed when they specced and installed the units.

I am also opening contact with Goodman.  The AC unit on that side has been set to 70 since 10 AM.  It was never hotter than 100 today.  That side of the house is currently 79.  The unit simply can not reduce the temp below that unless I set the other side of the house really low to help it.

Contractor won't be called again.  Will find another through Goodman that will honor the extended warranty and fix the problem.  If after I get this resolved I discover serious malfeasance by the original contractor I will out them here and send complaint to the registrar of Contractors.  Plus one to BBB.  But none of that will happen until I have the fix defined.  I don't attack anyones "rice bowl" until I am 100% sure I can prove they merit it.
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 4:26:42 PM EDT
Not sure what else you need to be convinced that your HVAC company is screwing you (and probably lots of other homeowners) over in regards to these malfunctioning systems.
Link Posted: 7/16/2021 7:32:03 PM EDT
This all started on 7/6, per your first post, now 10 days ago.  I know 80 degrees is not unlivable, but this all should have been resolved by 7/10 at the latest.  It's not like AZ doesn't have a plethora of well reviewed HVAC companies you could call upon.  

You are either the most patient person I have ever heard of, or...

Link Posted: 7/16/2021 7:47:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AT-ST83:
This all started on 7/6, per your first post, now 10 days ago.  I know 80 degrees is not unlivable, but this all should have been resolved by 7/10 at the latest.  It's not like AZ doesn't have a plethora of well reviewed HVAC companies you could call upon.  

You are either the most patient person I have ever heard of, or...

View Quote


Well it hasn't been hot and the house is pretty much been at the setting of 79.  So yeah I've been patient.   Pretty sure once the heat comes back I'll be seeing 82-83 on that side and no way to reduce it.  Also means my AC is running less efficiently.  I waited until yesterday giving them one last chance to actually measure how it was running.  Done with them now.  I try to give people a chance to respond when confronted with the raw data.  They failed.

Link Posted: 7/16/2021 8:19:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By f40:
In my experience most new builds are sticking to the house will cool 20⁰ below outdoor ambient.

My current house has a conditioned attic, is 2300 sq ft with only a 3.5 ton unit. It definitely struggles to keep up during the evening, even with super cooling during the day, this is on an E-W lot. My thermostat is set to 76 and the house is 79⁰ currently after cooking dinner. Unfortunately the ROC can't do anything to address this as it's within their numbers. Based on what I found city of Phoenix requires a 30⁰ difference in rentals only, but I haven't seen anything similar elsewhere. City of Surprise also calls for 20⁰ in the 2018 international building code they use. Welcome to my headache.
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Not a AC guy, but isn't that unit about a ton undersized?
Link Posted: 7/29/2021 8:09:31 PM EDT
OK, final resolution.  I had another AC company out to the house today.  They discovered:

Return vents were a bit clogged.  But that was not the main issue

The air handlers are configured to work with specific compressors and thermostats.  These were set up in a way that they would NEVER demand the higher fan speed.  So basically they were idling the entire time they have been in my house.  Compressor gave it cool air but air handler just kinda "meh" with it.  I can now FEEL the fan run.  

Whatever.  I am freezing my ass off now and just set it back to 79 which I like more than 75.  I just ran it at 75 to prove it could be done.  New guy said hell set it at 70 if you like.  He said it isn't a bad system other than when he sells them he changes the capacitor that died in both of them before they leave.  

Name of original contractor that peed on my leg and called it warm rain is Marken Mechanical.  Suggest steering clear of them as incompetent.
Link Posted: 7/30/2021 10:34:06 AM EDT
Everybody likes a happy ending.
Link Posted: 7/30/2021 11:00:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2021 11:02:58 AM EDT by GONIF]
Glad it worked out . Let us know who was the company that finely got you fixed up .
Link Posted: 7/30/2021 3:34:06 PM EDT
Wouldn't be surprised if your Evap coils were freezing over regularly if the air handling fans were just idling along and barely moving air.

Good that it's running properly now.
Link Posted: 7/30/2021 8:59:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GONIF:
Glad it worked out . Let us know who was the company that finely got you fixed up .
View Quote


Mentioned above. Marken Mechanical.  I like them on a personal level.  But they clearly didn't do the job.  I am sitting here right now and system will cool to any temp I set and reduces humidity.  It clearly wasn't working before and is now.

Thinking of coming out of retirement and taking an HVAC course and opening a business.  Only issue I have is shitty knees and back so crawling around in any attic is right out.  And it seems difficult to hire entry level employees these days.
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