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Posted: 8/12/2005 5:37:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 5:38:58 AM EDT by Garage-Logician]
Hardcase made some remarks in the Rochester thread that simply cannot go without a response. So as not to further wreak havoc on that thread, I made this one.

In no particular order....Rochester a suburb of the Twin Cities, that's laughable. Next in line for suburb status in Hardcase's world, Des Moines, followed closely by Lincoln and Denver.

Someone walked up to you and said Minnesotans were unfriendly? And then the Strib published an article along the same lines? Well that seals it for me. Proof positive that what you say is true, one guy's word and an article in the Strib.

Your assumptions about me are equally groundless. A product of the "ultraliberal" MN public school system? Not me, I'm a born and raised red-stater. Although this is home now, and I do consider myself a Minnesotan, I got my manners where country music and NASCAR are king.

My experience with Minnesota has been quite different than yours. I find most people here to be quite pleasant. I've found that most of the folks you meet on any given day in any given state are decent, pleasant people. Maybe it's just you.

Anyway, your arguments are childish, full of unproven assumptions and generally not well thought out. But let's discuss it, I find this entertaining.

Edited to add: Inuh...no need to lock this, if it gets ugly, I'll stop.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:38:31 AM EDT
I like Minnesota. It has its problems like any other state but it's home and I think I'll stay. I've travelled outside the state and USA, BTW, many times. People are jerks anywhere.

I've found it's a lot harder to be a jerk to someone whom you've met in person. Especially another gun-owner whom you've shot with and/or espouses similar beliefs.

No need to slam Hardcase on this post. He has his opinions, it just seems to have come across as "Hating the state" to many of us. That rubs me and obviously some others the wrong way. He's got some valid points about the nature of many Minnesotans (liberal, passive-aggressive) but there are plenty of nice folks, too. Many of whom I've met on this board.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:59:45 AM EDT
Good and bad everywhere you go in this world. I just try hard to be one of the good ones and let the other guy live his life. No expectations, no getting offended, just take people as they come.
I wouldn't say MN is disproportionate to anywhere else I have been, but I have noticed a downward trend in manners and ethics overall since my youth.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 12:10:16 PM EDT
I have met alot of you Minnesota guys at the shoots no jerks just new friends. Maybe its a gun thing.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 12:52:59 PM EDT
I could have guessed that most all of the folks here would be kind, decent people. I'd like to hear your opinions about people in general, not limited to people you've met here.

I agree that it's harder to be unpleasant in person than it is over the internet. It's been my experience with meeting people (and I meet alot of them, occupational hazard), that once you get them to stop and take a breath, they're almost all good people. Some of them have different interests or opinions than I do, but we find some common ground and viola! a new friend.

I try not to limit my circle of acquaintances to just firearms enthusiasts, or right-wing conservatives, or cops. I try to keep a diverse group of friends and acquaintances, it helps keep me open-minded. And then I convert them into gun-toting, right-wing conservative cops....kidding...kidding....

Come on. Keep the discussion up. I get bored reading and talking about guns all the time.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 1:45:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 2:19:26 PM EDT by Dave_Pendleton]
I moved to Minesota in November 1989 after I was discharged (from San Diego).

Some friends in San Diego (transplants) hooked me up with some folks in Minneapolis until I could get settled. I came to take a job. The economy in SoCal was crap back then. Still is, from what I hear.

I grew up in Rhode Island, and travelled around quite a bit while in the service (and as an Army brat).

That being said, here's some things I found peculiar, interesting, or notable about the people when I got here:

1. Many still lived in the same area they grew up in.
2. Many still had close friends from Grade School.
3. Many had small close-knit groups of friends (see above), that were difficult for outsiders (partcularly non-Minnesotans) to enter in to.
4. Many moved away, to escape small towns, farms, etc., but came back after only a few years.
5. Minnesotans are terrible drivers. Merging is a particularly foreign concept to them.
6. Minnesota nice is still alive and well, but so is Minnesota duplicity.

I've been here for nearly 17 years, and I feel like a native--but not entirely.

I have friends that I have 10+ years of 'history' with, but they have friends with more. When we're all together, it's still possible to feel a bit like an outsider.

I was born in Texas, lived in California (twice, N&S), Missouri, Rhode Island, Japan and now Minnesota. Of all the places I've visited and lived, I like Minnesota best.

EDIT: So, to answer the author's original question--no, you aren't an unpleasant bunch. Just crappy drivers.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 1:53:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:

That being said, here's some things I found peculiar, interesting, or notable about the people when I got here:

1. Many still lived in the same area they grew up in.
2. Many still had close friends from Grade School.
3. Many had small close-knit groups of friends (see above), that were difficult for outsiders (partcularly non-Minnesotans) to enter in to.
4. Many moved away, to escape small towns, farms, etc., but came back after only a few years.
5. Minnesotans are terrible drivers. Merging is a particularly foreign concept to them.
6. Minnesota nice is still alive and well, but so is Minnesota duplicity.




Ha. I am from CA but lived at least for a very short time in FL, DC, PA, MI, WA, and Toronto. What Dave says rings true. I noticed when I first moved here #3 rang especially true. #5 is so true except it is the concept of yield that is hard for Minnesotans. #6 I would say Minnesota nice is the same thing as duplicity.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 2:13:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GoBlue:

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:

That being said, here's some things I found peculiar, interesting, or notable about the people when I got here:

1. Many still lived in the same area they grew up in.
2. Many still had close friends from Grade School.
3. Many had small close-knit groups of friends (see above), that were difficult for outsiders (partcularly non-Minnesotans) to enter in to.
4. Many moved away, to escape small towns, farms, etc., but came back after only a few years.
5. Minnesotans are terrible drivers. Merging is a particularly foreign concept to them.
6. Minnesota nice is still alive and well, but so is Minnesota duplicity.




Ha. I am from CA but lived at least for a very short time in FL, DC, PA, MI, WA, and Toronto. What Dave says rings true. I noticed when I first moved here #3 rang especially true. #5 is so true except it is the concept of yield that is hard for Minnesotans. #6 I would say Minnesota nice is the same thing as duplicity.



Ha-ha! I was born in Minnesota, but lived in Georgia, Alabama, Missouri, Kansas, South Korea, Missouri (again), Pennsilvania, Missouri (yet again), and finally back to Minnesota! During that time though, I've traveled to pretty much every other state (except the New England area).

And I can say without a doubt, that Minnesotans don't drive as bad as most backwoods Missourian's, but after that, most Minnesota drivers suck!

Also, never complain about the bugs that we have in Minnesota, you should see some of the creatures other places have. The first time I saw a Praying Mantis, I had a 9mm on me, and I pulled it on the bug! That is one evil looking bug, and it was about 10-12" long, and just staring at me! I was going to shoot it, no kidding, it wasn't natural!
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:28:01 PM EDT
I grew up in Wisconsin... all my people are still there.
I pray for them

All my friends are in Minnesota.
I pray for them too...(but for a different reason)

5 Years ago I could have pulled up my tent and headed back to Wisconsin. I didn't.

Bad politics and the like aside.... I like it here. (Keep in mind that on the politics side, Wisconsin has no pluses... save Class III)

I'm happy to make my home here.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 4:30:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:

That being said, here's some things I found peculiar, interesting, or notable about the people when I got here:
[list deleted]



Thats because Minnesota has the highest rate of "native" population than any other state. By native I mean those born here. Many years ago, it was something like 80% of Minnesota's population was born in this state, I think the next highest state at the time was something like 60%.

I found your long term friends comment somewhat interesting. From my observations, native Minnesotan's don't hang out with friends on the weekends, they hang out with family. I can't think of any true native Minnesotan at work who comes in on Monday and talks about getting together with friends...They've all gotten together with family. And any friends they did get together with were related either by blood or marriage.

Link Posted: 8/13/2005 5:17:13 AM EDT
And, FG you enrich our board by being a member! What gentleman you are!

Originally Posted By FedGunner:
I grew up in Wisconsin... all my people are still there.
I pray for them

All my friends are in Minnesota.
I pray for them too...(but for a different reason)

5 Years ago I could have pulled up my tent and headed back to Wisconsin. I didn't.

Bad politics and the like aside.... I like it here. (Keep in mind that on the politics side, Wisconsin has no pluses... save Class III)

I'm happy to make my home here.

Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:38:36 AM EDT
I came from NYC so almost everyone I meet in MN has been friendly. Of course NYC alone has a bigger population than the entire state of MN but the general population of disagreeable folks is lower.
Only nasties I met so far in this state are the trailer trash living in a apt complex I was at when I first moved here. Several of the tenants were welfare cheats "wiggers" and I stayed away from the idiot goobers.
All my neighbors when I bought my house in Byron(a Rochester bedroom community)have been extremely friendly and I wouldn't trade them anything.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:38:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 8:39:30 PM EDT by OBird]

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
5. Minnesotans are terrible drivers. Merging is a particularly foreign concept to them.



The Cheeseheads are far worse, except their main problem is usually more along the lines of going at least 20 mph below the speed limit....
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:29:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
5. Minnesotans are terrible drivers. Merging is a particularly foreign concept to them.



The Cheeseheads are far worse, except their main problem is usually more along the lines of going at least 20 mph below the speed limit....


try driving in Boston
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:38:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:30:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OBird:

Originally Posted By Dave_Pendleton:
5. Minnesotans are terrible drivers. Merging is a particularly foreign concept to them.



The Cheeseheads are far worse, except their main problem is usually more along the lines of going at least 20 mph below the speed limit....



I think I will agree that Minnesotans are bad drivers, But far worse than WI.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:07:12 AM EDT
I'm moving here from NYC/NJ...the movers are supposed to pack my shit up today...

I'll have to agree on the bad driving thing. Even people in Joisey have mostly figured out that tricky "merge" thing...dunno why it hasen't taken root here. Hell, they even have metering on the on-ramps....and people actually stop for the lights! That threw me for a total loop the first 2 months I was here. Don't y'all know traffic lights are suggestions? Same with stop signs...Yield signs mean "beat the other guy to the intersection"...lines in the road are suggested lanes of travel, but really don't matter...and shoulders are driving lanes for excess traffic.

What consistently drives me nuts though is a) the guy going 55 in the left lane..even though the speed limit is 65, and b) the guy going 55 on a single-lane road...even though there's no traffic around, no cops, and it's a good 10 mile long straightaway...(of course, there's no passing ) I didn't realize speed limits out here actually, you know, mean anything.

Other than that...I wouldn't be moving here if I didn't love it

And there's nothing wrong with hanging with family on weekends. I'd go up and visit the parents for a weekend at least once a month around here. My friends thought I was nuts. I thought they were crazy for wanting to go to Hoboken and get bombed each and every weekend...especially those guys with wives and kids.

Different lattitude, different attitude...
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:25:59 AM EDT
I guess I am just not normal. I have lived here all my life, but I don't spend time with family on weekends, I spend it working and with friends... The friends I hang out with are the same way too, work and friends on weekends... guess we are "different"
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:24:05 PM EDT

Are we (Minnesotans) an unpleasant bunch?


Mostly just you, Garage Guy.

You certainly can't reasonably be called Garage Logician because whatever you are smoking proves that there is no logic, or any known reasoning method, to your posts so far. It's still, "I said it therefore it's true." You still embody that good old Minnesota Nice by starting a new thread & ripping me without even saying anything about it to me in the previous thread wherein we started the discussion. There was no Minnesota stab-'em-in-the-back passive aggressiveness there was there? Hahahahaha!

Now let's get right down to your "reasoning."


Hardcase made some remarks in the Rochester thread that simply cannot go without a response. So as not to further wreak havoc on that thread, I made this one.


Thanks for letting me know, foo'.

You didn't respond in the previous thread?


In no particular order....Rochester a suburb of the Twin Cities, that's laughable. Next in line for suburb status in Hardcase's world, Des Moines, followed closely by Lincoln and Denver.


Just moved here, huh? Cripes, every time that I drive down 52 it's more built up. Ever been down that way? Rochester is growing north & Minneapolis St. Paul is growing south. People commute from Oronoco to Rochester & people commute from Cannon Falls to St. Paul.


Someone walked up to you and said Minnesotans were unfriendly? And then the Strib published an article along the same lines? Well that seals it for me. Proof positive that what you say is true, one guy's word and an article in the Strib.


Apparently Minnesota passive aggressiveness is more widespread than even you realize:

www.startribune.com/stories/464/5557894.html

Just a part of the article discussing a Minnesota writer:


"It's such a nice, conservative publication and the article was so shallow and almost insulting; a passive-aggressive insult , if you will," Carlson said. "I was just so shocked. It was about someone who was from Minnesota and obviously still involved in Minnesota. It's not like I snubbed Minnesota, and they wanted to write an article and snub me back. I just would have expected more of Mpls.StPaul magazine. If it was Star or Us, I would be like 'Whatever.' "


Next, reading comprehension is your friend. "Someone?" Nice try, but factually incorrect. I believe that I said something like "I've had people mention..." Where do you get "one" out of that?


Your assumptions about me are equally groundless. A product of the "ultraliberal" MN public school system? Not me, I'm a born and raised red-stater. Although this is home now, and I do consider myself a Minnesotan, I got my manners where country music and NASCAR are king.


Please go back. You are making me re-think my belief that southerners are friendly.


My experience with Minnesota has been quite different than yours. I find most people here to be quite pleasant. I've found that most of the folks you meet on any given day in any given state are decent, pleasant people. Maybe it's just you.



I'm so glad for you that your experience has been different. It seems like you should fit right in based on your recent posts.


Anyway, your arguments are childish, full of unproven assumptions and generally not well thought out. But let's discuss it, I find this entertaining.


"Childish," "unproven assumptions and generally not well thought out," huh? I haven't seen any FACTS in any of your posts to refute any of my statements. You've reverted to your "I said it therefore it's true."

Back away from the bong.

My advice to you is to seek treatment here in the Land of 10,000 Treatment Centers.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:41:24 PM EDT
Actually, Rochester is growing west and south. Byron will be part of Rochester within 10 years at the rate their going at
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 3:08:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
Actually, Rochester is growing west and south. Byron will be part of Rochester within 10 years at the rate their going at



Yep. Being from Rochester and living in the Twin Cities, I make the commute down frequently by both car and by aircraft. Rochester is definately growing to the south and particularily the west, while the north side of town has slowly filled out to just north of 55th street. It was just south of 55th street ten years ago.

To say that Rochester is a suburb of Mpls/St. Paul is idiotic. Either that, or someone forgot to add the smiley icon.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:57:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:


try driving in Boston



Just stay off the damn sidewalks and you will be ok
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:16:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By twonami:


try driving in Boston



Just stay off the damn sidewalks and you will be ok


it was my only documented case of road rage
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:27:21 AM EDT

To say that Rochester is a suburb of Mpls/St. Paul is idiotic.




Oned of these days the reality is going to bite you in the ass.
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