Are L.E.'s in this State required to state WHY they made a stop on a car?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Are L.E.'s in this State required to state WHY they made a stop on a car? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 10/3/2005 4:47:20 AM EDT

Hey guys,

Had another run in with the PD. Local & State. I spent about hour in the cold while they hashed out my car holster. Long story short they didn't like the idea but conceeded they couldn't do anything about it (mind you from two seperate agencies)

Anyway, I'm not here to talk about that. I was wondering if L.E.'s in this state are required, either by company policy (WAC) or law (RCW) to state *why* they pulled a violator over in an alleged traffic infraction? (Reason For Stop)

I wasn't breaking any laws, I signaled. My ticket was ONLY for POI (proof of insurance). Officer never gave a reason for the stop from the word go. I have insurance, of course, but I want to file a complaint with the WSP. The officer was respectful, don't get me wrong. Very professional gentleman. I just need to remind him that (if what I believe is the case) he needs to be more careful when he pulls someone over...i.e. following procedure.

Thanks for you input fellas,
-Rob

Posted: 10/3/2005 5:30:47 AM EDT

[#1]

Posted: 10/3/2005 5:58:51 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Had another run in with the PD. Local & State.

I want to file a complaint with the WSP.

The officer was respectful, don't get me wrong. Very professional gentleman.

Posted: 10/3/2005 7:17:45 AM EDT

[#3]

It is my impression from a conversation with a WSP many years ago they can stop you for no reason other than to check your id. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

Looks like that whole car holster thing isn't work well. Especially since you like to get stopped so much.

Posted: 10/3/2005 7:23:42 AM EDT

[#4]

I'm beginning to think that if you are driving, they have their PC.

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:01:20 AM EDT

[#5]

I think it is common practice for them to pull drivers over the are young and wet behind the ears.

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:23:24 AM EDT

[#6]

It is my impression from a conversation with a WSP many years ago they can stop you for no reason other than to check your id. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

Okay, you're wrong.

There must be a reason. Reasons are numerous and can include any traffic violation, as seen in Title 46 of the RCW (just for starters).

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:27:33 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Looks like that whole car holster thing isn't work well. Especially since you like to get stopped so much.

I'd like to know how the cops can see the holster, down low in the dashboard, while he is DRIVING around?!?! It isn't like their cruisers sit up real high, so they can look down into the car (like a semi truck.)

Two thoughts:
1.) [tinfoil]The cops know your car now and are actively harrassing you because of it. They will continue to pull you over for no reason/any reason in order to fuck with you about the holster.[/tinfoil]

2.) There is something about the way you drive that attracts their attention. Some driving habit that is on the edge.

Even though I think option one is a little bit of tinfoil hat, I do know that cops get to know "regulars" that they keep tabs on. Sounds like you may be a regular to them. Here's an experiment, take out the holster until after the next stop. Tell us how that one goes....

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:42:25 AM EDT

[#8]

I was wondering if L.E.'s in this state are required, either by company policy (WAC) or law (RCW) to state *why* they pulled a violator over in an alleged traffic infraction? (Reason For Stop)

You're not going to find agency policy in the WAC. Contact the specific agency if it's that much of an issue to you.

I wasn't breaking any laws, I signaled. My ticket was ONLY for POI (proof of insurance).

Then go to court and tell the jude you were stopped for no reason.

Officer never gave a reason for the stop from the word go. I have insurance, of course, but I want to file a complaint with the WSP.

Okay, then go contact WSP.

The officer was respectful, don't get me wrong. Very professional gentleman. I just need to remind him that (if what I believe is the case) he needs to be more careful when he pulls someone over...i.e. following procedure.

Uh huh.

It's apparent to me that this is part of a multijurisdictional conspiracy perpetrated by the Man in an attempt to bring you down.

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:42:34 AM EDT

[#9]

Speaking from personal experience, complaining about a stop can lead to many, many more.

Posted: 10/3/2005 9:42:43 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Speaking from personal experience, complaining about a stop can lead to many, many more.

Don't tell him about your personal experiences Bunny. That way he can add ourdrama thread

Posted: 10/3/2005 10:19:41 AM EDT

[#11]

The officer was respectful, don't get me wrong. Very professional gentleman. I just need to remind him that (if what I believe is the case) he needs to be more careful when he pulls someone over...i.e. following procedure.

Uh huh.

It's apparent to me that this is part of a multijurisdictional conspiracy perpetrated by the Man in an attempt to bring you down.

...........X2

Ummmmm....shouldn't you review the SOP for the State Patrol (A matter of Public Record) before assuming that you have a valid grievance?

Posted: 10/3/2005 11:18:16 AM EDT

[#12]

Did you ask the tickiting officer why he pull'd you over?

I have found It is usually part of the greeting speech...

"Good afternoon sir/ma'am..The reason I stopped you is < fill in the blank>, May I see your drivers lic.,registration, and proof of insurance please?....."

Posted: 10/3/2005 11:18:58 AM EDT

[#13]

With nearly 10 years of LE-related experience ( and my fair share of being stopped ), an officer will find (or fabricate) a reason for a lawful stop. They will follow you until they observe anything that may be a violation, whether it's your driving conduct or dispostion of your vehicle.

I had one stop me because I crossed the white line by a nose-hair. It was a beater-vehicle I was using as a temp while my car was in the shop and he admitted he wanted to check the driver cuz the temp-vehicle was scuzzy (we worked for the same PD).

I had another stop which was fabricated. My girlfriend and I left a hamburger joint and made it two blocks before being pulled over. He stated there were emphasis patrols on date-rapes or such. He admitted that he predicated the stop on expired tabs but after stopping me found they were not. He asked her if she wanted to be in the vehicle with me - she looked at him incredulously, said "yes" and we were off.

By and large (and like it or not) they find (or fabricate) the smallest of infractions to base a stop to investigate. I suspect your holster is just a bonus find and that you or your vehicle may not fit the description of "nice for the area" in their opinion. Drive the same vehicle somewhere else and you may never get hassled. Drive it in Medina and you won't make it a block and a half.

It's just the way the world works. I don't condone it, nor like it, but it is what it is.

Oh - and my other 2-cents. While I support your position to roam freely on peacable journeys, it may not be practical. If you're going to fight for your right, be prepared to be a nuisance and be treated like one. Otherwise, you can follow DaBunny's advice and try to fly under the radar as much as possible.

Posted: 10/3/2005 11:47:48 AM EDT

[#14]

Well all good advice...but let me tell you, for each time I do get pulled over the officer that does pull me over gets a schoolin' in concealed carry laws. Part of me loves that (who here wouldn't?) Sometimes though, and I will concede, it can be a pain in the ass (like early this morning). It's just...tonight...it was cold and he made me stand in front of my car while I froze my ass off. I guess I can sacrifice that much of my time....seems I only get pulled over when I do bank/grocery store runs at midnight and later. This particular stop was at 3:40AM

Must say though, having a copy of the concealed carry law in my car was nice. They pulled out their own 2002 edition RCW book which, I don't know, didn't seem as completely obvious as my copy. When the local PD pulled up (Olympia) the gal was completely reasonable too. When I presented her with my copy of the law she more or less said "It's ambiguous but I believe he is correct..."

One more note...you'll see on my first post (re: car holster) I was willing to play the guinea pig. Just wondering how many more times I need to get pulled over before it changes some ppl's thoughts on the concealed carry law.

COME ON, you know I'm your comedic relief

-Rob

Posted: 10/3/2005 11:54:00 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Ummmmm....shouldn't you review the SOP for the State Patrol (A matter of Public Record) before assuming that you have a valid grievance?

I think thats what I was doing here, cowboy. I don't just post these things to get laughed at, I work hard at my comedy routine.

Please re-read my first post

-Rob

Posted: 10/3/2005 12:04:52 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

It is my impression from a conversation with a WSP many years ago they can stop you for no reason other than to check your id. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

Okay, you're wrong.
There must be a reason. Reasons are numerous and can include any traffic violation, as seen in Title 46 of the RCW (just for starters).

As I stated. In my conversation with a WSP he stated, and firmly believed he could stop you for nothing more than his whim. As mordecai stated imaginary PC is enough. Likewise I seem to remeber, as R-32 stated, the officers I've dealt with have generally told me right up front why I was being stopped and I've never had one fail to let me make my argument prior to producing any documents. Title 46 does address this issue in a very catch-22 way. It also states in 46.61.020

'RCW 46.61.020
Refusal to give information to or cooperate with officer -- Penalty.

(1) It is unlawful for any person while operating or in charge of any vehicle to refuse when requested by a police officer to give his or her name and address and the name and address of the owner of such vehicle, or for such person to give a false name and address, and it is likewise unlawful for any such person to refuse or neglect to stop when signaled to stop by any police officer or to refuse upon demand of such police officer to produce his or her certificate of license registration of such vehicle, his or her insurance identification card, or his or her vehicle driver's license or to refuse to permit such officer to take any such license, card, or certificate for the purpose of examination thereof or to refuse to permit the examination of any equipment of such vehicle or the weighing of such vehicle or to refuse or neglect to produce the certificate of license registration of such vehicle, insurance card, or his or her vehicle driver's license when requested by any court. Any police officer shall on request produce evidence of his or her authorization as such.'

Posted: 10/3/2005 12:13:10 PM EDT

[#17]

Drinking already?!

- 1GR

Posted: 10/3/2005 3:35:12 PM EDT

[#18]

They need PC to pull you over??? Thats funny

.

Posted: 10/3/2005 4:48:32 PM EDT

[#19]

What kind of car do you drive? You need something non-descript a clean little 4 door car of some sort. Put a baby visor in the window and a dare sticker on the bumper. You can drive for months with no license plate at all, dont ask me how I know.

Posted: 10/3/2005 5:17:01 PM EDT

[#20]

I put a "Policemen's Benevolent Assoc'n Donor" bumper sticker on my car. Works better than my old "All Cops Are Pigs" one.

Posted: 10/3/2005 6:54:34 PM EDT

[#21]

It's a 2DR VW Scirocco.

The famed "shit-listed" car:

I like the idea of the bumper stickers, guys. Smart thinkin'

I may have to pick myself up a few.
-Rob

Posted: 10/3/2005 6:58:14 PM EDT

[#22]

I always get asked if I've been drinking.

Posted: 10/3/2005 7:05:53 PM EDT

[#23]

You drive a VW? You guys are all lunatics! If it was a Jetta, they might have just opened fire.

Posted: 10/3/2005 7:29:19 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
You drive a VW? You guys are all lunatics! If it was a Jetta, they might have just opened fire.

Now thats funny!

Posted: 10/3/2005 7:44:42 PM EDT

[#25]

I am glad someone believes in fighting for a principle, not like the rest who are trembling frightened slaves.

Frederick Douglass:

Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will.

Posted: 10/3/2005 7:51:42 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
....seems I only get pulled over when I do bank/grocery store runs at midnight and later. This particular stop was at 3:40AM

I think your circumstances have more to do with it than your vehicle.

Let's be honest, most nefarious activity is being done in the dead of night and cops are notoriously bored stiff at this time of the morning as well.

RCW 46.61.020 - Refusal to give information to or cooperate with officer -- Penalty.

And just a little on this one. Yes, you must ID yourself, but it does not mean you must converse. (5th Amendment). When pulled over, I routinely hand over the documents requested and stare blankly ahead. If they ask any questions, inquire into anything or generally yak short of ordering me to comply with something - I'm deaf. Every cop has just shrugged and left to run the ID. They're baiting you into confessing anything. Speak at your own risk.

With that SKSGuy, I want to give you a +1 for taking it all in stride and using it as an opportunity to educate them with each encounter, and risking your well being, however slight (since you're behaving within your rights and have a more current copy of the statutes then they do!

)

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:22:26 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I always get asked if I've been drinking.

You know what, I'm always asked "why do you feel the need to carry a gun?"
my response has always been "well, I'm fond of the second amendment"

Thanks fellas :)

I see it like this...for every LEO that encounters this and says "wow, that rig can't be legal" then finds out that it is, well, it helps all of us legally abiding citizens out. I'm sure those two police officers will bring this up to other police officers around the water cooler. Next time I'll shoot for three seperate agencies. County, State, & Local.

Maybe I'll bring a porta-BBQ so I can eat while they are trying to stick it to me.

Seriously though, they have all been professional and I respect that. My hats off to our local law enforcement on professionalism.

-Rob

Posted: 10/3/2005 8:47:15 PM EDT

[#28]

Yeah, it's really professional to screw with a guy for exercising his natural rights.

The problem I see with your rig isn't a legal one, but a practical one: when exiting the car, you either have to futz with your sidearm or leave it to be stolen. It'd be much nicer just to always have it where it belongs--on your hip. It'd suck if under stressful circumstances you forgot it in the vehicle and got shot to death with just your weenie to point at the guy.

Posted: 10/3/2005 9:17:17 PM EDT

[#29]

Well I don't leave it in the car , I slip it in my holster in my back as I exit the car. :) Takes 2 seconds honestly. I've got it down to a fine science, I have to.
-Rob

Posted: 10/4/2005 1:38:20 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Maybe I'll bring a porta-BBQ so I can eat while they are trying to stick it to me.

Just try to stick to 'Burgers.....that rack of Pork ribs will MOST certianly push the envelope a touch to much.

Posted: 10/4/2005 3:00:53 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Just try to stick to 'Burgers.....that rack of Pork ribs will MOST certianly push the envelope a touch to much.

very gooind point

-Rob

Posted: 10/4/2005 4:18:08 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Just try to stick to 'Burgers.....that rack of Pork ribs will MOST certianly push the envelope a touch to much.

very gooind point

-Rob

Best to not have any bacon on those burgers either.

Posted: 10/4/2005 5:53:56 PM EDT

[#33]

Ahh, come on, put a whole pig on a spit and roast.

Posted: 10/4/2005 8:11:06 PM EDT

[#34]

means donuts are out too

Posted: 10/8/2005 12:20:53 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
It's a 2DR VW Scirocco.

The famed "shit-listed" car:
www.mrequivocal.com/vw/1979/Img_9863.jpg

I like the idea of the bumper stickers, guys. Smart thinkin'

I may have to pick myself up a few.
-Rob

The photo of the car you posted contains the answer for a legal and valid stop any time it is on the road in the State of Washington.

(if it is your car as driven on the highway)

Posted: 10/8/2005 12:59:33 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

The photo of the car you posted contains the answer for a legal and valid stop any time it is on the road in the State of Washington.

(if it is your car as driven on the highway)

No front license plate displayed properly???

Posted: 10/8/2005 1:02:29 AM EDT

[#37]

Has the front plates on it. They are to code.

I've already submitted the required proof of insurance. It's kind of a moot point now.

-Rob

Posted: 10/8/2005 1:10:35 AM EDT

[#38]

Shrug, in the photo there are no plates on the front to code - which is why I added the line about "if that is how it looks on the highway."

My guess is what other posters have put up.

Your car is probably the subject of multiple officer safety bulletins and word of mouth.

If it wasn't, it probably is now that you put up a photo of it

Posted: 10/8/2005 2:13:23 AM EDT

[#39]

heheheh...so true. I'm actually more concerned about slipping up and not signaling when I make a lane change. I have a funny feeling they'll rape me if I don't keep it on for at least 150ft before I make the change...THEN BLAMO... I'm screwed. They hit me in the pocketbook.

Posted: 10/8/2005 2:54:28 AM EDT

[#40]

Dunno about where you live and what they think of you, but doesn't it strike you as odd that you garner so much attention?

Granted, it could all be a huge misunderstanding.

I'm glad you were treated respectfully.

Posted: 10/8/2005 11:10:08 AM EDT

[#41]

That car while in decent shape is not inconspicuious enough. A car like that out at 3am screams young fast'n'furious wannabe punk. Whether its true or not, thats probably what the police see when they see that.

You need something 4 door maybe a little newer, something very common. Think 1992 blue ford tempo or chevy celebrity, or oldsmobile or buick, or 4 door family looking foreign car. No weed wacker exaust or rims or stickers. Yea that stuffs neat but if your trying to hide from the law its not a good idea to have on a daily driver.

Of course, now your completely legal, so really you have nothing to worry about.

Posted: 10/8/2005 6:12:51 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
I am glad someone believes in fighting for a principle, not like the rest who are trembling frightened slaves.

I wonder who the rest are? Would that be me and you, Strat?

Posted: 10/8/2005 6:16:04 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I am glad someone believes in fighting for a principle, not like the rest who are trembling frightened slaves.

I wonder who the rest are? Would that be me and you, Strat?

Depends on how good your memory is and how long you have been lurking, use the M word here and watch 'em scatter.

Posted: 10/8/2005 6:27:33 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Depends on how good your memory is and how long you have been lurking, use the M word here and watch 'em scatter.

Monopoly?

No.

Maple Syrup???

I KNOW, I KNOW!

MARPAT!

The fabric that shall not be named.

Posted: 10/8/2005 6:31:45 PM EDT

[#45]

MIDOL?

Posted: 10/8/2005 6:54:23 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am glad someone believes in fighting for a principle, not like the rest who are trembling frightened slaves.

I wonder who the rest are? Would that be me and you, Strat?

Depends on how good your memory is and how long you have been lurking, use the M word here and watch 'em scatter.

You must mean moonbats.