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Posted: 11/25/2014 8:43:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes you are fine I'm looking for pistol deals also for BF
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Posted: 11/26/2014 1:59:28 AM EDT
[#2]
yes but when you purchase a lower put a pistol buffer other wise you could be a felon "constructive intent"
looking at the DSG uppers? Uppers |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 8:07:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes you are fine I'm looking for pistol deals also for BF Thanks |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 8:09:55 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes but when you purchase a lower put a pistol buffer other wise you could be a felon "constructive intent" looking at the DSG uppers? Uppers Yes, the DSG uppers are the ones I'm interested in |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 10:31:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Just a heads up, if you work the IFC table at one of the DSM gun shows and show up to the Sota arms booth with your "dealer" tag on they will give you dealer pricing (usually 20% off) their complete uppers. I grabbed a complete 8" pistol upper there at the last show for $280...
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Posted: 11/26/2014 5:31:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Going back to the T/C supreme court case, it does not matter if you have in your possession parts that can be assembled into an NFA firearm, so long as they can serve another purpose. The T/C case specifically addressed ownership of a short barrel once the kit was assembled as a rifle. You could turn it into an SBR. But you also could turn it back into a pistol. All of the parts served legitimate purposes in conventional firearm configurations.
So...
For more on this, ATF Ruling 2011-4 is worth a read. Particularly: Quote HistoryHeld, a firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they: (a) Serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and barrel of less than 16 inches in length); or (b) Convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm, including – (1) A pistol and attachable shoulder stock; and (2) A rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and an attachable barrel of less than 16 inches in length. Quote HistoryHeld, a firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they: (a) Serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and barrel of less than 16 inches in length); or (b) Convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm, including – (1) A pistol and attachable shoulder stock; and (2) A rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and an attachable barrel of less than 16 inches in length. And as for this: Quoted:
yes but when you purchase a lower put a pistol buffer other wise you could be a felon "constructive intent" People used to argue this three or four years ago. Get up to speed. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 8:03:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You already own an AR-15 rifle lower receiver capable of accepting the pistol/SBR upper you wish to buy. There's no legal configuration for you. Pretty open and shut possession of an SBR IMO. This is the part I was worried about. Didn't know if the upper would be considered parts until assembled |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 2:27:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Is it likely to ever be a problem? You obviously intend to build an AR pistol, not an SBR. So if you never invite the man into your life, probably not.
But you don't always get to send the invite. I wouldn't do it, personally. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 7:02:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the part I was worried about. Didn't know if the upper would be considered parts until assembled Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You already own an AR-15 rifle lower receiver capable of accepting the pistol/SBR upper you wish to buy. There's no legal configuration for you. Pretty open and shut possession of an SBR IMO. This is the part I was worried about. Didn't know if the upper would be considered parts until assembled Buy the parts as you can in the order wish to. Don't put the upper on a rifle lower and you will be fine. No reason to worry. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:39:46 PM EDT
[#10]
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Buy the parts as you can in the order wish to. Don't put the upper on a rifle lower and you will be fine. No reason to worry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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You already own an AR-15 rifle lower receiver capable of accepting the pistol/SBR upper you wish to buy. There's no legal configuration for you. Pretty open and shut possession of an SBR IMO. This is the part I was worried about. Didn't know if the upper would be considered parts until assembled Buy the parts as you can in the order wish to. Don't put the upper on a rifle lower and you will be fine. No reason to worry. WRONG! If the only lower in the house is assembled as a rifle, ATF could easily make the case that with a pistol upper, that is constructive intent. If there was a stripped lower in the house, no way to prove that the pistol upper isn't for the unassembled lower. If ATF was to raid someone's house who was building a pistol, and all they had was a couple rifle AR's, fully built, and a pistol upper assembly, easy conviction of intent to manufacture. Always keep a stripped lower in house to avoid that shit, or just build an AR pistol lower, in addition to your rifle lowers, you can have as many uppers laying around as you want without being able to be prosecuted for constructive intent. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 1:42:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Have to agree.
ATF says as much in ATF Ruling 2011-4, which isn't just some letter that only applies to the individual receiving it. It's their stated public policy: Held, a firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they: (a) Serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and barrel of less than 16 inches in length); or (b) Convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm, including – (1) A pistol and attachable shoulder stock; and (2) A rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and an attachable barrel of less than 16 inches in length. Having just one AR pistol lower gets you out of this conundrum 100%. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:52:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WRONG! If the only lower in the house is assembled as a rifle, ATF could easily make the case that with a pistol upper, that is constructive intent. If there was a stripped lower in the house, no way to prove that the pistol upper isn't for the unassembled lower. If ATF was to raid someone's house who was building a pistol, and all they had was a couple rifle AR's, fully built, and a pistol upper assembly, easy conviction of intent to manufacture. Always keep a stripped lower in house to avoid that shit, or just build an AR pistol lower, in addition to your rifle lowers, you can have as many uppers laying around as you want without being able to be prosecuted for constructive intent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You already own an AR-15 rifle lower receiver capable of accepting the pistol/SBR upper you wish to buy. There's no legal configuration for you. Pretty open and shut possession of an SBR IMO. This is the part I was worried about. Didn't know if the upper would be considered parts until assembled Buy the parts as you can in the order wish to. Don't put the upper on a rifle lower and you will be fine. No reason to worry. WRONG! If the only lower in the house is assembled as a rifle, ATF could easily make the case that with a pistol upper, that is constructive intent. If there was a stripped lower in the house, no way to prove that the pistol upper isn't for the unassembled lower. If ATF was to raid someone's house who was building a pistol, and all they had was a couple rifle AR's, fully built, and a pistol upper assembly, easy conviction of intent to manufacture. Always keep a stripped lower in house to avoid that shit, or just build an AR pistol lower, in addition to your rifle lowers, you can have as many uppers laying around as you want without being able to be prosecuted for constructive intent. Show me someone that was charged and convicted of construtive possession, not as an additional charge to other issues. They won't come break down your door because you ordered 8.5 upper before you got a lower for it. 
Ultimately, you don't even have to just have a pistol lower, you just need to build your lower as a pistol first and then convert to rifle configuration as you can go from pistol to rifle and back if you are that concerned about it. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 1:16:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Show me someone that was charged and convicted of construtive possession, not as an additional charge to other issues. They won't come break down your door because you ordered 8.5 upper before you got a lower for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Show me someone that was charged and convicted of construtive possession, not as an additional charge to other issues. They won't come break down your door because you ordered 8.5 upper before you got a lower for it. That's kind of exactly what I'm saying with my "inviting the man into your life" comment. Quoted:
Ultimately, you don't even have to just have a pistol lower, you just need to build your lower as a pistol first and then convert to rifle configuration as you can go from pistol to rifle and back if you are that concerned about it. Also true. |
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