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Posted: 10/22/2004 3:02:47 PM EDT
Since I live in NA I was thinking about the 1 year membership, $150 + $25 rip-off initiation fee for the shooting range, your thoughts? They say it's the nicest one in Ohio and I agree, but I know the people who work there are a$$holes.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:12:41 PM EDT
IMHO, it's highway robbery.

I belong to an outdoor range that's $30 for the entire year, and no fees AT ALL FOR ANYTHING else. Granted, it's outdoors but still. NASR wants $175, plus you still have to pay for range time. WTF? Why have a damn membership...it's really just a discount card.

It is a great range and the lighting and ventilation makes it a very enjoyable place to shoot, but dealing with the wait, the fees and sometimes condescending staff makes for something that should be a hell of a lot cheaper.

Heck, if you're only in NA, you're about 1/2 hour from my place. Drop me a PM, we can do some shooting sometime on my range.

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:22:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 6:26:59 PM EDT by hkusp]
I think the new Black Wing Shooting Center (Route 36 west of Delaware) is open or almost open. $ 150 annual fee for the indoor range. I don't know what they charge on top of that. The Powder Room (Powell) is $ 5 per half hour, but you don't know what you are breathing.

Black Wing Shooting Center
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:38:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hkusp:
I think the new Black Wing Shooting Center (Route 36 west of Delaware) is open or almost open. $ 150 annual fee for the indoor range. I don't know what they charge on top of that. The Powder Room (Powell) is $ 5 per half hour, but you don't know what you are breathing.

Black Wing Shooting Center



thanks for the info, I can't believe I am saying this but the NASR is a better deal with more free range times than BWSC, your not limited to 1 hour and you don't have to pay additional fees for a guest at NASR, seems like the only advantage is the outdoor range. NASR is only 5 minutes away from me.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:05:08 PM EDT
I've said it before, now I'll say it again.............. I guess I'm an asshole, because I work there.

Who's an asshole? IM or email me and I will take care of it, or find someone else to work there.

Actually, as far as indoor ranges go, NASR is pretty cheap. They don't charge by the hour, and with the standard membership, you get 3 free shooting days/  week. If that doesn't fit your schedule, there's an "upgraded" membership where you can shoot free monday through friday.

Shooting at an indoor range IS more expensive than at an outdoor range or club. It's a fact of life. For instance, NASR spends in the neighborhood of $2500/ month on air filters alone. You don't even want to know how many lightbulbs a day get shot out, or target carriers, etc.

I, too, prefer to shoot on an outdoor range, and weather permitting, that's what I do. But, when it's snowing, raining, or just plain too hot or too cold, air conditioning and heat is nice, too.

Rick

PS FYI, there's been a major overhaul in the staff at NASR over the last couple of months. I'm dead serious, if any of you have had a personal problem with anyone there recently, let me know, and if your problems were in the past, give it another chance.............
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:50:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By carshooter:
I've said it before, now I'll say it again.............. I guess I'm an asshole, because I work there.

Who's an asshole? IM or email me and I will take care of it, or find someone else to work there.

Actually, as far as indoor ranges go, NASR is pretty cheap. They don't charge by the hour, and with the standard membership, you get 3 free shooting days/  week. If that doesn't fit your schedule, there's an "upgraded" membership where you can shoot free monday through friday.

Shooting at an indoor range IS more expensive than at an outdoor range or club. It's a fact of life. For instance, NASR spends in the neighborhood of $2500/ month on air filters alone. You don't even want to know how many lightbulbs a day get shot out, or target carriers, etc.

I, too, prefer to shoot on an outdoor range, and weather permitting, that's what I do. But, when it's snowing, raining, or just plain too hot or too cold, air conditioning and heat is nice, too.

Rick

PS FYI, there's been a major overhaul in the staff at NASR over the last couple of months. I'm dead serious, if any of you have had a personal problem with anyone there recently, let me know, and if your problems were in the past, give it another chance.............



Rick, I'm glad that finally NASR is doing something about their customer service, I can't tell you how much money you lost from me and my friends here in New Albany that decided to go somewhere else to buy our firearms and ammo because of the a$$hole behind the counter. I will definitely give you another shot
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:01:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By carshooter:
Actually, as far as indoor ranges go, NASR is pretty cheap. They don't charge by the hour, and with the standard membership, you get 3 free shooting days/  week. If that doesn't fit your schedule, there's an "upgraded" membership where you can shoot free monday through friday.



That must have changed. When I looked into joining, there was only 1 or maybe 2 free days a week, monday or thursday I think. So, one more day and the ability to go for free m-f makes it worth a second look.

I guess it's that way all over as far as range memberships go, but I'd rather pay $300 a year and have no range fees than $175 and still have to pay each time I go. That's how my golf memberships are, I pay $200 a year, and I show up and golf. I don't know why, but the philosophy of paying a big chunk of change for a discount disagrees with my constitution. "Pay more to pay less" hehe.

As for the staff, I'm 100% positive I never ran into you there. After talking to you in PM's I'd bet my life on it. You're way too civil to be the guys I ran across at NASR. There were 3 times I was in there and was treated like a walking turd. Really made me mad. The last time I shot there, I was asked to show what kind of ammo I was going to shoot. I pulled the box out of the range bag, and in doing so had to remove a gun....a Taurus 945 in my case. The guy helping me asked if it was a Sig, I said no a Taurus 945 (which is a great gun). I pulled it out of the bag and handed it to him to check out, and when he handled it his face looked like he was handling a used dildo...total disgust. He hands it back to me and says "good luck" with a sneer. Swear to god, it was that direct. It's one thing to have an opinion, but jeesh have some tact.

Another time I was the only guy in the store, other than range folks. I was asking an employee (who was free and asked if I needed help) about a used S&W Model 41. After he handed it to me, I was checking it out and I asked if it was modified or had trigger work done (many are). The guy helping me said "Wouldn't know", and turned and walked away without excusing himself, and disappeared. I was still holding the gun. I stood there for a good long while, finally put the gun on the glass and left. I was genuinely interested in buying the gun...cash in pocket. What kind of crass fuckwad pulls that in a gun shop? When I ran an electronics retail shop I would have fired anyone on the spot for that kind of display. Worse, he left a weapon in a customers hands unattended to. The only other guys in the store were busy talking not paying an ounce of attention to me.

I don't think anyone has any bone to pick with you personally, but NASR has employees that have  done this not only to me but to enough people to get the reputation of being snobbish and unfriendly. If that's a thing of the past, I'll certainly be glad to show up there again. I'm a pretty affable guy, if someone's rubbing my rhubarb they're going out of their way to do it.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:28:05 PM EDT
My NASR visit was not good and was going to drop $3500.00 + on some rifles (1 year ago). In talking to guy behind counter about hicap mags and the AWB going away, he said hope the AWB stays because they will loose to much money if it sunsets. So I quickly made my exit,  and do not know if i will go back, looked like a nice shop but did not get to look around much.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:10:06 PM EDT




WTF, I'd like to know what dumb ass said that. I'd bet money he's one of the ones who no longer works there.

I'll say one thing about NASR, the owners and the corp group of employees....... a harder working, more pro gun group you will not find anywhere else. We, as individuals, and as a company do more lobbying and "pro gun" political and organizational activities than ANY other range or store in Central Ohio, and that's a fact.  I personally lost thousands of dollars in "value" in "pre ban" assault weapons and magazines, and I couldn't be happier, and told everyone I came in contact with exactly that. I gaurantee the owners of the store felt exactly the same way.

It's a pretty hardcorps group of shooters, for sure. With that, comes some opinions and attitudes about what, or which brand of guns works or doesn't work well. Part of the "problem" is that the range guys get "jaded" by continually working on some POS that range customers bought somewhere else and can't get to work on the range. I won't launch into a brand name tirade, but for instance, it's hard to tell someone politely that the hipoint they just bought is a piece of shit, and it doesn't really matter what we, or they try to do to it, it still won't work.

Seriously, a major change has taken place in the last 6 months. If anyone has a personal problem, name names and I'll kick ass on your behalf. Or, next time you come in, introduce yourselves......

Rick
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:14:55 PM EDT
PSS If any of you guys decide to stop by before Sunday, I'm on vacation. So, you won't be able to introduce yourselves!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:17:00 PM EDT
I think I will make a visit this week after work as a secret shopper and see what happens. BTW Rick are you the manager?
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:20:50 PM EDT
armored saint, check your IM

Rick
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:27:23 PM EDT
Yep, Armored Saint, I am.

I've been at NASR for almost six years, but up until some recent structural changes, my hands were tied when it came to certain individuals and their asinine behavior.

Go see Greg, and tell him I sent you! He's one of the good guys, too.

Rick
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:30:24 PM EDT
Carshooter, is there any way you can get them to drop their prices on transfers?  There is no way in hell someone should have to pay $100 there when you can go to the Powder Room for $20.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:35:10 PM EDT
Chokey,

It's not $100. It's $50 for nonmembers, and $25 for members.

For a very brief period of time, they jacked it to $100 after a jerk wad transfered in a Romanian AK. After transfer fees, he saved $10 by doing the transfer, over buying the one we had on the rack. It was $100 for less than a month, but one of the employees kept telling everyone it was $100 because he was so pissed. (good thing he's not there now)

Sorry guys, but that's rude and insulting to do to a dealer to transfer something in to save $10 when it's on the shelf. Depending on what you're looking for, you might ask what we could find it for, too
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:46:57 PM EDT
It sounds like we should have a Arfcom shoot there sometime.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:50:48 PM EDT
That'd be great, Chokey. Unfortunately, we'll probably have to wait until after the deer season rush to schedule anything. Everybody and their other brother Darrell will be in to sight in their slug guns in the next couple of weeks.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 5:19:50 AM EDT
After reading this thread, I will have to give NASR another try.  I stopped going because of some of the employees there, but it is a nice range. My friend let his membership expire for the same reason.  
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 11:26:14 AM EDT
Guys,

Seriously, go in. Look for either me (Rick) or Greg. We're good guys. (As is Vern, and several of the others)

One thing you do have to keep in mind about an indoor range is that you can't shoot either Wolf, or steel core ammo. That hacks a lot of people off, but it's a fact of life indoors. Unfortunately, unburned gunpowder has a way of accumulating, and sparks are a big no no. The other thing is that if you randomly take lots of Wolf, or other, steel cased ammo, many, many times the bullets contain steel, too. Again, unfortunately, the steel core stuff tears the hell out of the steel traps.

Since the guys who built the range spent 1 million dollars on the traps and building, I guess they have to protect their investment somehow.

Rick
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 11:31:09 AM EDT
I'm going to say one more thing on the topic of NASR, then I'll shut up, I promise.

Over the years, there have been several flame wars on NASR's pricing and I'm the first one to admit, it ain't the cheapest place to buy a gun, but no one says you have to, either........ Beating the guy behind the counter up because you saw one cheaper someplace else doesn't do anyone any good.

The unfortunate fact of life is that building and running an indoor shooting range is REALLY expensive. It costs a small fortune to keep it running, so they have to try to keep the lights on somehow, and charging customers to shoot doesn't do it by itself.
I hope this helps clear things up!

Rick
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 3:44:15 PM EDT
Rick is telling the truth here guys.  I had a meeting for work in Columbus today and figured that I would stop by NASR on the way home.  It had been almost a year since I was last there, due to the staffing problems.  However, I was very pleasantly surprised by my visit today.  I was told by at least 3 different employees, "Just let us know if you see something you want us to get out of the case."  Shocked the hell out of me.  That is the first time I have even been spoken to at NASR. Then an older gentlemen (I think his name was Don?), just struck up a conversation with me and we talked firearms for a good half hour.   Seems like you have turned the ship around Rick.  Keep it up!!!

BTW Rick,  I'm dying to know how in the hell someone shoots out a light on the range.  Do you immediately eject the ass-clown from your place?  The ceilings are at least 10 foot high aren't there?  How does a round get that high on such a short range? Just curious.

Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:42:58 PM EDT
You wouldn't believe the shit people shoot up. To a degree, that's why you've got to try to be a little understanding of the range guys. Even somebody with the best personality in the world has to turn into an asshole range nazi to keep everyone safe.

Same deal with the range rules. If it was a private range, there would be no rules, because anyone too unsafe would just be ejected. You wouldn't believe what I've seen in Six years.

Biggest bunch of horsecrap lately is due to liability insurance carriers. We've allowed trained individuals to draw from holsters since opening. Three months ago we got an insurance audit, (not the first) and our carrier dropped us like a hot potato because of it. They've audited before and not said a word.  Obviously, we had to get new insurance PDQ, because you can't be open to the public without it. Come to find out, there's a whole lot of insurance companies and agents, but only one underwriter for range policies. If you let someone draw from a holster, you don't get insurance. So now we have a bunch of members who are furious at us because we can't let anyone draw from a holster, and it's not our fault! We've got two choices, no more drawing from a holster, or no more shooting range.

Ok, here's a start........ Guy comes in with 11 year old kid. Rifle range is full, and they are in the middle of 5 other lanes of shooters shooting hi powered rifles and shotguns. 25 cent target falls off the target carrier, and guy sends his kid crawling down range to get the target, with all 5 other lanes still shooting. After the range officer called a screaming cease fire, you know what his response was? "Well, I told him to stay in our lane."

How about when the private security company rented the range, and the same deal happened. The range safety officer and instructor for the security company started bear crawling down range with 5 shooters on either side of him blazing away. His response "Oh, I didn't think."

Last week I had a guy on the rifle range who was standing in one of the center booths. His buddy had a pop can hanging from a string in a lane by the concrete block wall about 15 feet down range. He was blazing away at the pop can shooting across two lanes. Every shot he fired hit the concrete block wall, and you could see pock marks, and cinder block chunks flying every time he pulled the trigger. Oops, again, just didn't think.

Man, you should see what they shoot. Pop can falls off the string downrange? No problem, blaze away at it. The only thing is, every bullet bounces of the concrete floor and ricochet's around downrange. Maybe it hits the traps, maybe not, and maybe it comes right back at YOU.

Next time you go in shooting, look up. I swear to you, there are bullet holes all over the ceiling 5 feet in front of the firing point. Good thing there's all those steel baffles to keep everything inside the building, and from ricocheting back towards the firing point, hunh?

Most of the time lights get shot out, it's because people shoot the steel target carriers and it ricochets up into the lights. Not necessarily the whole bullet, but enough fragments to shatter a flourescent light.

For real, take a look downrange. Every wall, every baffle on the ceiling, and the floor has bullet marks on it. I rented the AR15 to someone one time and watched them put 20 rounds into the ceiling. Chunks of wood and sound deadening insulation were flying everywhere. They had no clue how to aim it, and were holding the front sight about 6 inches above the carry handle. I tried to explain it to the guy for 30 minutes, but he got pissed off and wrote a nasty complaint letter because we embarrassed him in front of his girlfriend.

Seriously, it's a whole 'nother world behind the counter in a gunstore, especially one with a shooting range. We could swap stories all day about assholes on either side of the counter, whether it's at gunshows, or any store.

Part of it is the general lack of knowledge, and the unwillingness of most guys to listen to anything about shooting. The average American adult male figures he already knows all there is to know about guns and shooting, after all he watches TV, doesn't he?

The simple fact that some of us hang around on internet gun boards means our level of general knowledge is light years beyond the common person, and we have enough of an interest about it to TRY to learn something.

Link Posted: 10/28/2004 7:38:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By carshooter:
The simple fact that some of us hang around on internet gun boards means our level of general knowledge is light years beyond the common person, and we have enough of an interest about it to TRY to learn something.




That's a great point.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:13:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2004 9:05:51 AM EDT by mywifehatesguns]
Holy crap!!!  Those stories are amazing.  The guy that sent his kid downrange has no business being a parent and should be instantly castrated.

You seem like a great guy Rick.  Are you going to the Millers shoot on Sunday?  Swingset and I are basically driving right past your place, we could pick you up.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:46:02 AM EDT
I wish! Unfortunately, I'm burning a week of vacation this week, and I've got to go back to work on Sunday. Even though I get paid to play with guns, it's still work sometimes, and I'd rather go shooting!

Rick
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:05:38 AM EDT
Posting at work eh?

You don't tell, I won't either
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 9:51:56 AM EDT
phooey! I'm on vacation this week. Speaking of which, I better run around and make it look like I did something, or my wife's going to be pissed!
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:04:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2004 2:05:42 PM EDT by swingset]
Rick,

Stopped by NASR today on my way home from Cowlumbus. Had a much better experience than previously. Talked to a guy named Nick there for a little while, friendly guy. I'll make it a point to stop in and say hi when you're back at it. Had some cool guns on the wall. Got a chubby looking at the Galil.

I still blanched when I checked out the price of a Kahr K9, but hey it's New Albany...gotta expect that to a degree. Now that it's a new NASR, we need to work on that "sell for net+10%, sell 3 times as many" business model and you guys will be the perfect store.

One terribly disconcerting thing tho....saw TWO John Kerry stickers on cars in the lot. What fucking tool endorses a guy who's spent his entire career dismantling the entire shooting community, then has the unmittigated gall to show up at a shooting range sporting that sticker!? Ugh. Makes me incredibly sad.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:25:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
....saw TWO John Kerry stickers on cars in the lot. What fucking tool endorses a guy who's spent his entire career dismantling the entire shooting community, then has the unmittigated gall to show up at a shooting range sporting that sticker!? Ugh. Makes me incredibly sad.




kerry said he supports the second ammendment Craig. He said hes been a hunter since he was a little boy and still hunts today. Rest assured he wont take our black powder rifles and shotguns under 12 gauge.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:33:21 PM EDT
That pisses me off, too. (The John Kerry Stickers) I pulled in the other day and some dumbass turned in ahead of me with the whole ass end of his car plastered with Scary Kerry crap. He climbed out of his car, went to the trunk, and got a range bag out. It was all I could do not to tell him he stopped at the wrong business, pack his stuff and head on down the road........... How frickin stupid? Some people have such a rabid hatred for GW that they don't care he's the most anti gun candidate in history.......... Pisses me off.

On the pricing, All I can say is well, I try! I've bitched about it so much they ignore me anymore! (Sometimes I think I ought to start a top secret email/ letter campaign from customers about how much they love the place, but they just can't pay that much for new guns when the competition's less) Unfortunately, the owners are stuck on margin. On one hand, I see where they're coming from, because they could probably make 10% return on their inventory money by investing it somewhere else.

About all I can say in defense of it is that it IS a really expensive facility. They started out with so much extra debt because of the cost of the ranges that they do have a lot more overhead than most places that are just "stores".

Rick
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 4:43:34 PM EDT
You know, I honestly don't know why that Galil's still there. The price on it's pretty good compared to what they're going for on the 'net. I wish someone would hurry up and buy it so I don't have too!(and the Ed Brown Kobra carry) Did you see the new Nighthawk Custom Range Gun? It's really sweet.......
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:02:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By carshooter:
Did you see the new Nighthawk Custom Range Gun? It's really sweet.......




I did, even fondled it for a while.  The action on that is amazingly smooth.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:35:11 AM EDT
Hi Rick,


  I'd be willing to give your place a go again sometime. I was a customer there when the range first opened and continued to patronize the place for about the first year. In that time, I had ponied up quite a bit of cash to use your facilities, buy ammo, sundries,ect and even purchased a couple of old rifles you had laying about.
  Things took a big change sometime after that first year had passed and IMO, the level of snobbery coupled with an elitist attitude really put me off as a customer. This attitude was not only from a select few members of the staff but from some of the patrons as well. I have the means to purchase new high end firearms but no desire to do so, does that make me somehow "lesser" in some respect?
 I primarily collect Commonwealth military arms and never quite felt welcome at your store to be honest.  hinking.gif  So as a result, I took my interests and dollars elsewhere.  

  I began working at another central Ohio range earlier this year, filling in part time and I have to say if I had a dime for every dumb stunt someone pulled on the range I would have been able to retire by now. I know what it's like on both sides of the counter and can whole heartedly appreciate and understand your position.  I realize that you have a business to run and profit to make however, I believe if you can change the culture and atmosphere of the business a bit and make it more welcoming too all firearms enthusiasts you could benefit tenfold.

  I do recall two fellows who worked there (Andy and John), both were great fellows to work with, very kind and had a sincere interest in all firearms, I used to drop by your shop just to show John some oddball peices from time to time as I felt he appreciated them as well.

  I'll drop by on my way to casa de swingset some saturday and say hi!

    Cheers,

         Mike
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:58:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By carshooter:
You know, I honestly don't know why that Galil's still there. The price on it's pretty good compared to what they're going for on the 'net.



Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I didn't ask how much, cause I didn't want to be tempted. I want a Galil pretty bad, but they are priced too high for what they are. Yeah, supply and demand and all, but it's like the VZ58's. Cool gun, but not a $1200 cool gun when in function they're just an AK variant. For what a Galil costs, I could build the mostest awesome AR on the planet.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:14:07 AM EDT
Tell me about it (Galil's). I don't know why, but I just had a momentary lapse and built one. I used an IMI receiver that I picked up about 2 years ago when they were still available, and an IMI parts kit. Then I got stupid and bought $500 worth of magazines from DSA. I think I have $1500 in a semi auto .223 Galil. That's cheap, considering what originals go for, but now that it's together, I'm wondering why I did it. Like you said, I'd rather have the ultimate AR15 for the same $$$$.

Oh wait, I already do. Rick  
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:16:24 AM EDT
Mike,

Which range are you working part time at?

Rick
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 5:43:06 AM EDT
I fill in ocassionaly at a range in Powell.  I like the work and 99.5% the customers are great folks to work with. It's pretty laid-back and the owners are great guys.

 Mike  
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