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Posted: 9/22/2004 12:29:13 AM EST
Not a "shooting weekend" way out in the desert with vehicles, ice chests and TV, but something to plan/prepare/test out your SHTF bug-out gear. Maybe start with a local hiking trail and go up and out of normal civilian campsite range. Set up base somewhere remote, and learn what you didn't need or forgot to pack, how fast your MRE's or water lasted, or whether your clothing or sleeping bag was too hot/cold, whether your pack was too heavy/uncomfortable, ect. A camp out basically see what works and what doesn't.

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:23:20 AM EST
Go backpacking, you'll learn pretty quick
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:34:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Go backpacking, you'll learn pretty quickhr


I was just thinking the same thing. My 5 day summer pack weighs in at 30 pounds and I've got it down to a fine science. I'm always ready to go in a pinch.

I occasionally bring my AR backpacking. If nothing else, it pisses off the other hippies on the trail.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:39:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Kisara:
Not a "shooting weekend" way out in the desert with vehicles, ice chests and TV, but something to plan/prepare/test out your SHTF bug-out gear. Maybe start with a local hiking trail and go up and out of normal civilian campsite range.



This does sound like an interesting idea, and I've already got everything. I'm in if somebody organizes it.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 12:28:28 PM EST
kisara,
i'm down...... i'll talk to you more about it when i see you at the next shoot.



meat
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 1:07:38 PM EST
Where about are you guys located. I am interested. I am out of the San Fran bay area.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 1:44:30 PM EST
socal.
it's kinda long way from ya.

meat
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 2:38:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 2:44:17 PM EST by Duffy]
Count me in too. How long are we gonna stay out there? Where do you have in mind? Can I bring my laptop? Just kidding.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 2:48:09 PM EST
I don't know where, somewhere where they'res no Ranger Ricks or sheeples around.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:24:46 PM EST
Hm, I think I'll need a pack in the car just for the drive to that place
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 6:34:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kisara:
I don't know where, somewhere where they'res no Ranger Ricks or sheeples around.


It might be a bit of a drive, but what about the Monache Meadows/Monache Mountain area (wilderness)?--I believe the Kern River runs through part of it.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:34:59 AM EST

It might be a bit of a drive, but what about the Monache Meadows/Monache Mountain area (wilderness)?--I believe the Kern River runs through part of it.


The only thing about a wilderness area, is that you can't shoot in the wilderness, technically. I for one wouldn't mind squeezing a few off with my fellow arfcomers.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:03:11 AM EST
I also forgot about deer seasons, would not want to be without a tag for that specific area/zone
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:47:04 PM EST
How about near the border somewhere.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:57:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 5:23:53 AM EST
Anyone interested in an Elk hunt. Now that's survival
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 11:50:38 AM EST
ummmmmmm, fresh meat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+1



meat
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 12:00:40 PM EST
Not to rain on anybodys parade (rain being the key word) but it sure sounded like they are closing most of the Angeles National forest, and probably a fair part of others for fire season. I caught bits and pieces on the radio while doing other thigs but it sounds like the closures are prety extensive. And driving into the middle of the Mojave is not on my survival master list, thank you.

That said, in a real SHTF do you really think you are going to be able to get out of town in most of California. The real SHTF exercise would be to see how well you can hole up at home (or really worst case at work). Anybody that thinks they are going to be able to drive anywhere unless they are really really fortunate in timing or already live on the "wrong" side of the mountains is going to be stuck in the metro areas. I live in Orange County, where am I supposed to hike to? Chino Hills? Saddleback?

Can you walk home from work? Are you dependent on freeways to get home, if you don't take the freeways is the area you will drive through going to be safe to drive through? (Say if you commute on the 105 are you going to want to drive on Imperial Highway past Nickerson gardens?) Do you have a thomas Bros? Do you know how to get home on surface streets? Can you get home on surface sreets? (91 through Santa Ana Canyon) Can your family execute home survival drills or the real thing without you there?

Here's a challenge. At 2:00 AM one morning. Go out pull your main breaker and disconnect your gas (you do have a gas line disconnect don't you?), then go into the kitchen (or do you have eq latches on you cabinets?) and pull enough dishes on to the floor to get a lot of shards. Now survive. Now that's a far more likely SHTF scenario for most of us than bugging out to the mountains.

Then again I've already volunteered to assist (amateur radio communications - we know that the phones aren't going to work, too many "Are you ok? etc etc too early and too often. My Mother-in-Law was that way as soon as she felt an earthquake she was on the phone to everybody. Also how many dial-up modems will go on-line or try?) at the hospitals in the county and not bug out. The Hospitals have also agreed to subsist our families if we are there helping.

Wonder what the reaction will be when I show up with my little and big friends along with the radios.? Actually, they probably will be happy to augment their normally unarmed security.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 3:45:53 PM EST
PaDanby,
Which brings up an interesting question.
What will you do, or think you will do if the shtf?
What do you think will be a shtf episode, realistically?
Why is going to the mountains the thing to do?
Do you already have a survival kit for you and your family put together?
How much food is enough?
Do you have an adequate supply of water?
Give me some feed back people.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 10:27:55 PM EST
There's quite a few areas about 10-15 minutes outside of Vegas.

Areas a little rugged, and a few ATV areas....but it would be nice if you want to take some of your SHTF equipment.....plenty of hills, and then there's the PIT....if you wanna shoot too.

PRK is way too stringent on guns....I"d be afraid to take anything on public lands in the PRK.

Its all friendly BLM land.....so if you think you can take the heat, try out Sloan.

After, a buffet in Vegas would hit the spot.........after a good shower though!


Originally Posted By Kisara:
Not a "shooting weekend" way out in the desert with vehicles, ice chests and TV, but something to plan/prepare/test out your SHTF bug-out gear. Maybe start with a local hiking trail and go up and out of normal civilian campsite range. Set up base somewhere remote, and learn what you didn't need or forgot to pack, how fast your MRE's or water lasted, or whether your clothing or sleeping bag was too hot/cold, whether your pack was too heavy/uncomfortable, ect. A camp out basically see what works and what doesn't.


Link Posted: 9/24/2004 10:45:16 PM EST
A friend and I had a really nice time up on the Carrizo Plains about 1 hour drive due west from Bakersfield just a touch south of the 58.


There is quite a bit of BLM land up there and if you want rugged, hike up to the ridge line between the 166 and 58 to get away from any retards who might dare to follow in suit.


My buddy and I went up just to do a bit of camping over the weekend and we saw exactly TWO people the entire time we were up there. We had the place pretty much entirely to ourselves. There are some senstive areas for protection of wild life and what not but those are pretty clearly marked, it's still possible to get out in the middle of nowhere right quick.

My friend and I went during the later part of Febuary when a lot of the low grasses and such were still green. Only thing I could have asked for were more trees for shade(there were practically zero trees for shade), it's like high desert up there.


Oh, and at night we saw more goddamned kangaroo rats than I have EVER SEEN IN MY ENTIRE LIFE. I took the Surefire 500A and did a 360 degree sweep of the camp site counting out the glowing eyes in the dark, within the 30-40 yards that my surefire could easily reach out to we counted a good 30 glowing kangaroo rat eyes staring back at us in the darkness. That accounts for maybe 1/2 an acre of land, god only knows how many of those blasted "endangered" rats populate the Carrizo Plains.


I would imagine that if you want to get isolated, get dropped off by a few friends who are wanting to set up camp and you can have yourself a nice 1 or 2 day hike/camp while trying to meet up with them at an agreed upon spot. My friend and I have the GPS coordinates set for the place we stayed at last time so we can find it again easily. We didn't stay at no stinkin camp ground, just set up camp in the middle of the BLM land and had ourselves our little wilderness fire permit.


I'm frothing at the mouth to go again this next Feb with another friend or two.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 11:42:18 PM EST
What do I see as SHTF ?

first some background, to kind of illuminate where I'm coming from. Almost 20 years Hospital Disaster Support Communications System. ARES/RACES (one of the few) We support (or try) almost all acute and some chronic care facilities in Orange County. We work closely with County Emergency Services and in SHTF will have a radio operator and he County Operations Center. We respond to communications system failures, training drills and stand-by for system maintenance and replacement. We also self-respond when we have earthquakes or hear of other incidents (power failures, aircraft crashes, etc) when our services may be necessary. I have participated in 4 real earthquake responses establishing radio links, a commuter train wreck where I was literally the right hand man for the ER supervisor that handled most of the trainwreck injured. We also were alerted to assist in the movement of casualties from Los Alamitos to Naval Hospitals San Diego, Camp Pendleton, and civilian facilities in the event of large numbers of casualties in the Iraq War. (use of WMD or other actions that caused a need to move casualties out of theatre in large numbers quickly. This was a joint effort between DoD, Public Health Service, DoH, State and County organizations. Because of our demonstrated competence and abilities we were asked to participate if necessary)

About 15 years in Navy Reserve, where I was Admin, Training and Mobilization Officer unit billets. Mobilization billets was primarily ACOS Ops and Plans Military Sealift Command SouthEast Asia. 11 months as a Crisis Action Team Leader mobilized in Operations Desert Shield/Storm, Provide Comfort (refugee support after ODS), Sea Angel coordinating logistics efforts into Bangladesh after a major cyclone and flooding, and finally Fiery Vigil, which was the emergency evacuations and then support of Clark AFB and Naval Station Subic and other facilities before and after the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in the Phillipines. Aslo as Mob and Security Officer I was the point officer for developing and teaching Terrorism related classes and tactics. I also participated in developing and exercising Non-Combatant Evacuation Operations for the Phillipines, Japan and South Korea.

I helped my Dad and other Police Officers try to barricade the Pasadena Freeway, direct traffic and assisted lost motorists after the San Fernando Earthquake.

While in the Reserves or while on Active Duty as a collateral duty Intel Officer, I had direct contact with the NPA, Japanese Red Army, and one or more Japanese Communist Radical groups.

Orange County SHTF Probabilities as I see it.

#1 - Major Earthquake
#2 - Major Hazardous Material Incident (which may be caused by vehicle, industrial accident or deliberate act)
#3 - Local Earthquake
#4 - Terrorist Attack on major civilian target, Disneyland, Knott's, Anaheim Stadium, The Pond, etc etc.
#5 - Santa Ana River Flooding
#6 - San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station Evacuation. No radiation loss, just preventive evacuation, which would/could result in a variety of negative consequences.
#7 - Major Civil Disturbance in Los Angeles County spreading.
#8 - Long term power interuption.

As you can see, some will prevent evacuation of all, most or some of the OC area. #1, #5 may prevent evacuation Others just local evacuations, some no evacuations.

In almost all cases sitting tight (or getting to the nearest hospital in my case because of the pre-standing agreement) at home makes the most sense.

What preparations have I made? I have about 2 weeks of water at minimum rations, week or so of food. Plans to take care of poop. I have the camping gear for tenting, cooking, lighting, propane, paper utensils, tp, etc. Radios, batteries, etc, If I was single maybe, maye I could put enough to subsist me in my truck. But I have a wife, 3 and now 2 teenage boys, and two dogs to take care of. In otherwords bugging out just isnt terribly practical.

So in other words I have studied the actual possibilites are of negative events, what the consequences might be, and what the response might have to be. BTW I am a firm believer in being prepared dor the worst case scenario and then being over prepared.

If I was say in the Central Valley, the most disasterous would be a major earthquake, then a nasty hazardous incident involvingn either trains, chemical or petroleum facility or agricultural center, flooding, local earthquake are are next and the rest are highly unlikely to be a problem.

So it depends on where you are. If you think you are going to be able to get out on the 15 if you don' live in Barstow or Victorville it isn't going to happen. Cajon Pass will be a major traffic jam (as might be 10, 60, 5, 101, etc). The distances for "bugging out" for most of Southern California are prohibitive, add the number of people here. Now a lot of the guys that say they are going to bug out live out in the boonies someplace. why bug out in that case.

Get rid of the tin foil, and plan for realistic situations.


Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:02:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:36:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 6:39:03 AM EST by meateater]
this has very interesting subjects, thanks for the info on shtf scenario . i'll need to re-think this a little .
considering i live in o.c. great info guys.
but i'm still down on buggin out somewhere it sounds like fun.


meat
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 12:48:54 PM EST
I think as Californians we can all agree that we need to wait to see how many CA teams make it into the Playoffs and World Series in order to lose to the Dodgers..

Then again they are having a cluster of smal earthquakes at the north end of the Mono Craters east of Mono Lake and down by Coso Junction. I might just add a volcanic eruption to the list for people living around 395 north of china lake.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 1:55:27 PM EST
Since I live near the beach, any tips on tsunami?
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 2:06:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Duffy:
Since I live near the beach, any tips on tsunami?



Get a surfboard!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:39:40 PM EST
so are we still on for the bugout??????????????????????
meat
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:09:52 PM EST
Ok how about a Pre-tend bugout?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:51:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:58:17 PM EST
paul , i know this is off topic but. why not join us on the 10th at burro canyon????



meat
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:19:47 PM EST
Paul, doesn't gas have a shelf life? Do you rotate old stock and keep new gas in the cans?
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:09:43 PM EST
They have an additive that you can buy for gas so that it doesn't break down as fast, but it does have somewhat of a xhelf life.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:12:46 AM EST
Paul has it right running in (or from) SoCal is a non-starter. No place to go. Staying put is the most fasible answer.

Which leads me to a local permutation of my SHTF scenario. A little hot spot that may be a real focal point. Not that many but a lot will hit on it. I live within a 1/4 mile of the major So Cal Albertsons distribution Center and the Albertsons Bakery is about a half mile further down. In other words a major food supply. Expect it will get guarded but if things get too bad it will be magnet for hungry people. Hmm, I need to factor that in. Then again one of the guys on my cul-de-sac works there. He's got a bad knee and is still close enough to walk to work. Hmmm. But it means that there may be more hungry folks wandering the neighborhood. Guess I better run down to Turners and get another few cases the next sale.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:57:53 PM EST
I keep 2 boxes of MRE and 15 gallons of bottled water in case of earthquakes. Since I only eat once a day I can survive for a while without hitting the market. Maybe a fishing pole for the beach...
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 11:51:44 PM EST
I live On the water in CDM, I will be heading up To the ortegas on Hwy 74 near el Cariso/Near the the Candy Store etc...Also alot of Jeep Trails (Tamiani trail)there and not many rangers,I used to live there up top and can tell you I use to shoot rabbits off my fron porch.My Dogs ate Rabbit ALOT.but...I also was a volunteer Fire/Rescue with Station 51 up there and worked alot with CDF arson guys, so I was kinda looked over....one of those have badge will travel deals.I was friends with all the powers that be up there so it wasnt like they were gonna beef me.That came over to my ranch for their lunch breaks..........Still, Most Rangers over the age of 40 you will find very cool and conservative. It is the young PC -"save the world, global warming, save the whales" Rangers as being dicks. Much like the new breed of what we in the business call the "new leather glove cops".
After seeing my ID, one of these new cops gave me a cite for not having a front license plate......"Just doing my Job sir",he said.....what an ass.and they wonder why people have changed their opinions of Law Enforcement...........Embarrasing as This is my trade.
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