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Posted: 7/10/2008 8:03:07 PM EDT
Ive had a carry permit for about 12 years now. Im a 07-03 SOT. Ive been a armed security contractor, as well as a personal security agent. My permit was due the21st of last month, can't get any answers from the permit unit. heriffsI'll be calling the lawyer Monday
Link Posted: 7/10/2008 8:04:32 PM EDT
my renewal came on day 31
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 2:58:50 AM EDT
Remember, absent of any kind of denial notification, your application receipt is now your carry permit, so at least you can carry legally.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 5:34:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fast351:
Remember, absent of any kind of denial notification, your application receipt is now your carry permit, so at least you can carry legally.


Good point!

Link Posted: 7/11/2008 5:48:32 AM EDT
what are the problems? Is there something specific to HCSO that we should keep in mind when renewing?
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 6:05:49 AM EDT
And that makes you special how? Do you put on your pants any different then the rest of us? Do not think so...

Originally Posted By DetectiveSpecial:
Ive had a carry permit for about 12 years now. Im a 07-03 SOT. Ive been a armed security contractor, as well as a personal security agent. My permit was due the21st of last month, can't get any answers from the permit unit.
Anybody else getting dicked around by our new sheriffs admistration ?
I'll be calling the lawyer Monday
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 6:09:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 6:09:44 AM EDT by SultanOfBrunei]

Originally Posted By Fast351:
Remember, absent of any kind of denial notification, your application receipt is now your carry permit, so at least you can carry legally.

This is what the statute says, but has this been tested and entered into case law? I wouldn't want to be the first.

Dakota county took 26 days for me a few months back, and my wife's permit just came yesterday it took 40 days. Before I found that the permit arrived I contacted the local police chief yesterday to see if he could rattle their cage alittle. I don't think he has any power or obligation to do anything but he said he would call them. Maybe he'll still call and give him some guff, maybe not.

Two people on tcc got their permits/renewals in 27 and 30 days at the end of june. It seems like there was some sort of screw-up with yours if it is 20 days late.

Remember, the law does state that the sheriff must pay your legal fees if he loses, which he will since you can prove you applied over 30 days ago and have not been denied. Considering that you need your permit for your job I would highly considering doing the lawyer route.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 6:46:25 AM EDT
My permit is due in December, but you can guarantee I'll be renewing a lot more than 31 days before it is expired...
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 8:01:24 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By rn22723:
And that makes you special how? Do you put on your pants any different then the rest of us? Do not think so...
height=8
Originally Posted By DetectiveSpecial:
Ive had a carry permit for about 12 years now. Im a 07-03 SOT. Ive been a armed security contractor, as well as a personal security agent. My permit was due the21st of last month, can't get any answers from the permit unit. heriffsI'll be calling the lawyer Monday


Just sayin, I have had a permit for a long time,never had this problem before, and this crap is keeping me from working.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 8:30:18 AM EDT
I put in for my renewal on 6/18 & my old one expired yesterday. When I left the sheriff's office the guy said "Be sure not to carry after your old permit expires." It looks to me like they are using every day that they can to jack us around. When I got my original permit 5 years ago, though, they used every bit of their 30 days, too.

Link Posted: 7/11/2008 10:48:58 AM EDT
Well, the best advice is to get someone on the phone....be polite but firm....and if you have a lawyer on retainer have he/she make call and send a letter....
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 10:59:16 AM EDT
A similar situation from 2003 in Anoka County, Link

The short version:
Anoka demanded people pick up their permits instead of mailing or personally delivering them.
James R. Evenson didn't want to do that.
Attorney David Gross got involved.
Went to court.
Permit mailed/recieved.
Judge ordered permit to be mailed.
Judge ordered Anoka to pay for Evenson's entire legal fees, even though half of the case continued after the permit had been delivered.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:20:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:

Originally Posted By Fast351:
Remember, absent of any kind of denial notification, your application receipt is now your carry permit, so at least you can carry legally.

This is what the statute says, but has this been tested and entered into case law? I wouldn't want to be the first.


Meh, either a lawyer now to get the sheriff off his ass, or a lawyer *IF* you actually get stopped while carrying and the cop gives you grief for not having the plastic card.

It'd actually be interesting to get this on the books. But the law is very clear. Unless a denial is issued, an application turns into a permit 30 days from receipt by SO. I wouldn't have any reservations carrying on that basis, especially on a renewal.

This is the first time that I've heard of any county taking 50+ days though. My guess is something got lost, either in the mail or in the paperwork on their end. The lack of cooperation on their end there is no excuse for though.

Link Posted: 7/11/2008 12:26:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 1:15:20 PM EDT by hardcase]

It'd actually be interesting to get this on the books. But the law is very clear. Unless a denial is issued, an application turns into a permit 30 days from receipt by SO. I wouldn't have any reservations carrying on that basis, especially on a renewal.


Any chance you could provide a link? (I thought that I had the statute in my favorites but couldn't find it.)

Thanks.

ETA: I think this is it. Look almost halfway down at this: "Sec. 10. Minnesota Statutes 2002, section 624.714,
subdivision 6, is amended to read: ..."

Then look under (3) (b):

"(b) Failure of the chief police officer or the county
sheriff to deny the application or issue a permit to carry a
pistol
notify the applicant of the denial of the application
within 21 30 days of after the date of receipt of the
application shall be deemed to be a grant thereof. packet
constitutes issuance of the permit to carry and the sheriff must
promptly fulfill the requirements under paragraph (c)."

If the strike-through portion doesn't read right, go to the link. The strike-through text didn't come through properly when I copied it so I tried to duplicate it by going back & forth.

That's all from the original, 2003 law so you'd have to go to this about 2 pages down to get to this:

"Laws 2003, chapter 28, articles 2 and 3, are reenacted
effective retroactively and without interruption from April 28,
2003."

All in all, with my amateurish lawyering skills, it looks like a lot of jacking around for the average guy to go through if he gets stopped without a permit, just carrying with a receipt. If I were an officer & had any questions I'd write you (me?) up, confiscate the weapon, & sort out the details later. It wouldn't cost the officer anything but it might cost me a lot of dough just to prove that I'm right. Helluva deal when a guy has to go through all that just to preserve that "which shall not be infringed."

Link Posted: 7/11/2008 12:59:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 1:01:42 PM EDT by SultanOfBrunei]
624.714

(b) Failure of the sheriff to notify the applicant of the
denial of the application within 30 days after the date of
receipt of the application packet constitutes issuance of the
permit to carry and the sheriff must promptly fulfill the
requirements under paragraph (c).
...
(c) Upon issuing a permit to carry, the sheriff must
provide a laminated permit card to the applicant by first class
mail unless personal delivery has been made. Within five
business days, the sheriff must submit the information specified
in subdivision 7, paragraph (a), to the commissioner for
inclusion solely in the database required under subdivision 15,
paragraph (a). The sheriff must transmit the information in a
manner and format prescribed by the commissioner.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 1:20:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcase:
If I were an officer & had any questions I'd write you (me?) up, confiscate the weapon, & sort out the details later. It wouldn't cost the officer anything but it might cost me a lot of dough just to prove that I'm right.

That about sums it up. A good lawyer might some how be able to get all that to go onto the Sheriff's dime, but it seems unlikely.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 2:48:47 PM EDT
It'd be interesting what Prof. Olson thinks about that. I bet that a good attorney would go after the sheriff for the lawyers fees to get you out of trouble after fact under the law that the sheriff is responsible for attorneys fees to get them to issue a permit.

Link Posted: 7/14/2008 8:07:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 3:58:09 PM EDT
What is a relatively close "rural" office near the twin cities that is more friendly and quicker than Hennepin County?
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 5:00:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:
What is a relatively close "rural" office near the twin cities that is more friendly and quicker than Hennepin County?


Mcleod county
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 5:18:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:
My permit is set to expire 03/2009, and I'll be taking a CCW course for myself pretty soon here... Probably try to renew it this fall before 2009.


The training cert is good for a year, but you can only renew 90 days prior or less.



624.714
Subd. 7.
(c)
(1) no earlier than 90 days prior to the expiration date on
the permit, the permit holder may renew the permit
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 5:18:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DetectiveSpecial:
Anybody else getting dicked around by our new sheriffs admistration ?
I'll be calling the lawyer Monday


Any update?
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 9:01:49 PM EDT
Any experiences with Scott or Carver Co? Shakopee and Chaska are both only a short drive.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 6:16:25 PM EDT
Try Dakota

close,in Hastings

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 7:19:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2008 7:22:54 PM EDT by Interceptor_Knight]

Originally Posted By Cleatus:
Try Dakota close,in Hastings


Confirmed good experiences with them??


Originally Posted By Cleatus:
Go to Dakota County. They will treat you right. I would not expect them before the 30 days wherever you go though.


I just saw this... I will try them out... Thanks!!!
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 11:02:45 AM EDT
I just got my new permit in the mail & I applied on 6/18.

Link Posted: 7/17/2008 11:27:49 AM EDT
Did you get it ?

Originally Posted By DetectiveSpecial:
Ive had a carry permit for about 12 years now. Im a 07-03 SOT. Ive been a armed security contractor, as well as a personal security agent. My permit was due the21st of last month, can't get any answers from the permit unit.
Anybody else getting dicked around by our new sheriffs admistration ?
I'll be calling the lawyer Monday
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 11:37:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:

Originally Posted By Cleatus:
Try Dakota close,in Hastings


Confirmed good experiences with them??


You can try Dakota, I got mine in 26 days, my wife got hers in 40 more recently. And there are quite a few people waiting at 40+ days right now. Personally, that just pisses the hell outta me.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 11:38:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rn22723:
Did you get it ?

Originally Posted By DetectiveSpecial:
Ive had a carry permit for about 12 years now. Im a 07-03 SOT. Ive been a armed security contractor, as well as a personal security agent. My permit was due the21st of last month, can't get any answers from the permit unit.
Anybody else getting dicked around by our new sheriffs admistration ?
I'll be calling the lawyer Monday

+1

My guess is he is talking with his lawyer and the lawyer told him to shut the hell up.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 4:12:09 PM EDT
I applied for my permit at the Washington Co. Sheriff's office in Stillwater. The folks at the window were polite and professional. I applied on a Friday, and received the permit in the mail less than two weeks later.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:15:59 AM EDT
I work for Hennepin County (although not for the Sheriff's Dpt) and maybe I can shed some light on the matter. Hennepin County is suffering from some financial difficulties much like many of the other metropolitan counties around the nation. Multiple revenue streams from the State and Feds to many county departments are forcing cutbacks. By law we the county is mandated to provide many of these services, so we cannot cut back on the level of services we provide. We are cutting back on staffing mainly but also employing other cost control measures. This means if you had 1,000 people in need of services prior to the budget cuts, but still have 1,000 post cuts, the county still has to provide those services but with 10% fewer resources so it takes longer to process everything. I know the courts are having to cut back as well as Health and Human Services (i.e. welfare), but I'm not sure about the Sheriff's Department. My guess why it may be taking longer to process your permit request is simply because there are fewer resources available to do the work. Couple this with the fact that Hennepin County is the most populous county in the state and there has been an increase in the quantity of CCW permit requests being filed over the past five years and you have more work than the County is capable of doing in the required time frame. Either that, or they just don't like you.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:07:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:

Originally Posted By Cleatus:
Try Dakota close,in Hastings


Confirmed good experiences with them??


Originally Posted By Cleatus:
Go to Dakota County. They will treat you right. I would not expect them before the 30 days wherever you go though.


I just saw this... I will try them out... Thanks!!!


I kinda work there....I did hear they are mailing them out at around 30 days- not sure if renewals take that long. Its another service we were mandated to do, but cant hire anyone to do it. One nice thing is its not a busy, crowded building- i would be suprised if there is anyone else in line with you.
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