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Posted: 2/16/2012 9:45:51 AM EDT
Want to know your experiences.....brands....calibers....hnadgun types.


Thanks.

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Link Posted: 2/16/2012 9:48:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 9:49:23 AM EDT by coastal_shredder]
Have run a few hundred rounds of Tula .45 ACP through my XD45 Tactical, zero stoppages or malfunctions of any kind, accuracy is plenty decent enough for practice.

If I think about it, its probably 250 rounds of it...
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 10:17:48 AM EDT
I've run a ton of it and never had a problem except that it is dirty. More and more ranges are not allowing it because the jacket material has a high steel alloy content. It will actually spark when it hits the backstop in indoor ranges. They claim that its because the stuff damages their backstop, which I don't believe. I think its because they sell the lead and copper and the buyers of that material don't want the high steel alloy mixed in. From what I understand, it is consistent with all the Russian manufactured steel case ammo. I had a rep from a quality pistol manufacturer tell me that they don't use it to R&D or test guns anymore because the higher steel alloy jackets wear out barrels at an accelerated pace, but he's talking many thousands of rounds at which point you'd have long since covered the cost of most any replacement barrel with the savings. Accuracy is fine for pinking and such.

As far as people claiming that it wears extractors prematurely I've never seen one single example of that. Most extractors are made to articulate around the rim, doesn't matter if it's brass or steel. The extractors are hardened steel. I believe that if you stick to some reasonable maintenance schedule about replacing an extractor (several thousand rounds), you'd never notice a difference.

I have seen the quality of budget priced practice ammo from the main US companies fall to such a level that I don't think the quality of wolf etc. is any worse nowadays.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 10:46:40 AM EDT
I decided to run some Monarch steel through my FNX-9 about a month ago (everyone was out of ammo post-Christmas and that was about all I could find). Don't make the same mistake! Through 300 rounds, I had at least ten failures to extract, two failures to fire, the slide never locked to the rear on the last round, and the accuracy was h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e. The accuracy was so bad, I thought I was doing something wrong. So, I benched the pistol, and proceeded to shoot about a 12" group of five at ten yards.

I swtiched back over to Wal Mart Federal brass and everything went back to normal.

I have less than 500 rounds of Wolf black box through my Glock 19, the remaining 1000 or so being Federal brass, and it seems to run fine. I'll have an occasional failure to extract, but certainly not as bad as the Monarch.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 11:10:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Moose11B:
I decided to run some Monarch steel through my FNX-9 about a month ago (everyone was out of ammo post-Christmas and that was about all I could find). Don't make the same mistake! Through 300 rounds, I had at least ten failures to extract, two failures to fire, the slide never locked to the rear on the last round, and the accuracy was h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e. The accuracy was so bad, I thought I was doing something wrong. So, I benched the pistol, and proceeded to shoot about a 12" group of five at ten yards.

I swtiched back over to Wal Mart Federal brass and everything went back to normal.

I have less than 500 rounds of Wolf black box through my Glock 19, the remaining 1000 or so being Federal brass, and it seems to run fine. I'll have an occasional failure to extract, but certainly not as bad as the Monarch.


Not to get off topic too much, I've never run Monarch steel, but I have run some Monarch brass I got from Academy, and it ran fairly well for me as I recall... I'm not 100% sure, as I shot several brands that day.

It is rebranded Prvi Partizan ammo, or at least the brass stuff is. It also seemed to be loaded a little hotter, too.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 12:25:15 PM EDT
a buddies girlfriend bought him a 500 round brick of Wolf 45acp for his XD 45, it choked pretty bad on the stuff, i had 2 XD 45acp with me, they didn't like it either, all 3 pistols choked, swapped out to WWB and they ran reliably again.

i have had zero luck with steal case ammo, the 223 Tula turned my AR's into jam o matics, i've gotten where i would rather shoot less and run quality ammo through my weapons, YMMV
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 12:42:06 PM EDT
I've always ran wolf through my glock. Never had any abnormal problems until my last range trip. I recently picked up 1000 rounds of 9mm classic and noticed when I took it to the range I was having some initial round feeding from the mag problem. The first round wouldn't seat but following rounds cycled fine. This happened in all 3 mags I brought so I'm sure it had to do with the non smooth casing. Not sure what caused it but I'm gonna try out a few more boxes and mags.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 12:46:21 PM EDT
Steel case runs in most of my guns like Forrest Gump being chased by rednecks.

I have a few guns like the KAC SR15 that won't run with the low power .223 Wolf and I prefer not to run steel cased 9mm in my MP5 because when it's suppressed at FA rates of fire, it will blow an extractor because of the steel not "flowing" in the HK fluted chamber.

I can usually now find a deal on brass cased stuff that allows me to stock up and not have to depend on the cheap stuff as much anymore.

Link Posted: 2/16/2012 2:03:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jcoffman55:
More and more ranges are not allowing it because the jacket material has a high steel alloy content. It will actually spark when it hits the backstop in indoor ranges.


Wait a minute...I've been rolling my own and haven't bought (or shopped for, looked at, researched, etc.) any factory loaded ammo in quite a while now, but they're making bullet jackets with steel in them? I know all about steel casings, but bullets too?
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 2:23:17 PM EDT
Absolutely. It's too cheap not to try it out. I have put 2-3k of Wolf through my G19 and G34 in ~1.5 yrs. Much of that was at a class or local USPSA matches. I have had a couple light strikes per thousand rounds, so have gone back to brass cased for matches.

And since you all brought up rifles... yep, same story there. Too cheap not too. Wolf is pretty much all I shoot out of my AR's. I have shot it at 3 of the Creekside carbine matches and a few classes as well.

Regardless of rifle/ pistol, it a least makes great practice ammo.

*Maybe once I get off my a$$ and buy a Dillon, I won't have to buy the cheap ammo.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 2:34:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 2:35:32 PM EDT by coastal_shredder]
Originally Posted By sawgunner2001:
Originally Posted By jcoffman55:
More and more ranges are not allowing it because the jacket material has a high steel alloy content. It will actually spark when it hits the backstop in indoor ranges.


Wait a minute...I've been rolling my own and haven't bought (or shopped for, looked at, researched, etc.) any factory loaded ammo in quite a while now, but they're making bullet jackets with steel in them? I know all about steel casings, but bullets too?


Yes, but it does not function in any way to improve penetration/terminal performance. It is called a "bi-metal" jacket, meaning that the steel is basically sandwiched by copper.

From the Ammo Forum FAQ section on the jackets:

Originally Posted in Ammo Forum FAQ:

Jackets: Most Wolf .223 has been made with copper/gilding metal jackets, just like US ammo. Some 7.62x39 ammo also had all-copper jackets, and were sold in the usual black box but with a yellow band in one corner advertising it as copper-jacketed. Barring these exceptions, jackets are MILD steel with a thick copper plating. For this reason alone - if the only qualifying test is to use a magnet - virtually all combloc ammo will "fail". While Wolf .223 has been an exception, the latest production material is steel jacketed also: "None of our ammunition is steel cored, it is illegal to have any steel cored ammunition imported, and we have all our ammunition imported. All our ammunition has lead cores, and does not spark! Probably the only reason they think this is from a magnet test which shows the magnet sticks to the bullet, not because of a steel core like assumed, but because the jacket is a copper/steel mix, (one layer of copper on top of one layer of steel), which is why it's called a bi-metal jacket. If the magnet didn't stick to some calibers it's only because the jacket was all copper instead of bi-metal. We are phasing out the all copper jackets and having only bi-metal because it's more cost efficient."

Steel jackets usually mean poor terminal performance. They will not fragment and behave like a true FMJ. Even SP bullets usually do not perform as well as SP bullets made with traditional gilding metal. There are some exceptions to this. The 7.62x39 HP made by Ulyanovsk (Wolf Military Classic), the Silver Bear 62gr HP, and the Winchester M80 ball make with a steel jacket all seem to fragment and produce good terminal performance. For more information about Russian caliber terminal performance, please refer to this post.




Link Here
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 2:43:42 PM EDT
I have fired several hundred rounds of wolf through my G19. No problems, but it's dirty and the accuracy isn't on par with other more expensive ammo. For range blasting, I wouldn't hesitate to order a case of it.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 2:44:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By coastal_shredder:
Originally Posted By sawgunner2001:
Originally Posted By jcoffman55:
More and more ranges are not allowing it because the jacket material has a high steel alloy content. It will actually spark when it hits the backstop in indoor ranges.


Wait a minute...I've been rolling my own and haven't bought (or shopped for, looked at, researched, etc.) any factory loaded ammo in quite a while now, but they're making bullet jackets with steel in them? I know all about steel casings, but bullets too?


Yes, but it does not function in any way to improve penetration/terminal performance. It is called a "bi-metal" jacket, meaning that the steel is basically sandwiched by copper.

From the Ammo Forum FAQ section on the jackets:

Originally Posted in Ammo Forum FAQ:

Jackets: Most Wolf .223 has been made with copper/gilding metal jackets, just like US ammo. Some 7.62x39 ammo also had all-copper jackets, and were sold in the usual black box but with a yellow band in one corner advertising it as copper-jacketed. Barring these exceptions, jackets are MILD steel with a thick copper plating. For this reason alone - if the only qualifying test is to use a magnet - virtually all combloc ammo will "fail". While Wolf .223 has been an exception, the latest production material is steel jacketed also: "None of our ammunition is steel cored, it is illegal to have any steel cored ammunition imported, and we have all our ammunition imported. All our ammunition has lead cores, and does not spark! Probably the only reason they think this is from a magnet test which shows the magnet sticks to the bullet, not because of a steel core like assumed, but because the jacket is a copper/steel mix, (one layer of copper on top of one layer of steel), which is why it's called a bi-metal jacket. If the magnet didn't stick to some calibers it's only because the jacket was all copper instead of bi-metal. We are phasing out the all copper jackets and having only bi-metal because it's more cost efficient."

Steel jackets usually mean poor terminal performance. They will not fragment and behave like a true FMJ. Even SP bullets usually do not perform as well as SP bullets made with traditional gilding metal. There are some exceptions to this. The 7.62x39 HP made by Ulyanovsk (Wolf Military Classic), the Silver Bear 62gr HP, and the Winchester M80 ball make with a steel jacket all seem to fragment and produce good terminal performance. For more information about Russian caliber terminal performance, please refer to this post.




Link Here


Interesting. Learn something new every day. Thanks!

Link Posted: 2/16/2012 3:24:41 PM EDT
The more serious I get about shooting....

The more I realize I'm gonna have to shoot steel or do serious reloading.

College makes reloading setup difficult....
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 3:56:13 PM EDT
I have shot some myself. I have heard it wear out your barrels, but all if it is more accurate then me at the present time.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 4:05:02 PM EDT
I shoot Tulammo or Wolf MC all the time in my G26. I've probably put about 500 rounds or more through it in 8 months. I think the only time I shoot brass is when I go to qualify for my off duty qual, which is once per year. I shoot Tulammo in my G23 too. Its probably had about 250 rounds of it. I shoot a lot of brass through it too, depending on what good deals I find at the time, or if I get practice ammo from my dept. I think out of all the steel I've shot, I've only had 2 or 3 FTFs. And fortunately I've never ever had a FTF with wolf .223.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 4:57:06 PM EDT
I can buy Blazer aluminum for the same money . It runs more reliably than steel in my limited testing
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 5:03:07 PM EDT
I see you eying that case of 9mm wolf Larue
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 5:09:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 5:10:04 PM EDT by kylestyle]
so all wolf .223 is that bi-metal shit? and now they're phasing it into every caliber? so now technically all wolf ammo can be said to have a "steel jacket" despite the fact that it's a combo of both?

that's awesome considering this is a common range rule "Only authorized firearms and ammunition may be used. Steel core, steel jacketed, tracer, and incendiary rounds are strictly prohibited"

I'm curious as to whether the ammo I ordered is currently this new bi-metal and whether or not the range would care if I used it.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 5:11:05 PM EDT
I've probably fired in the mid 5 digit range of steel cased 9 and 45.

Mostly wolf, but some other as well. My old m1a1 and guidelamp m3 ate the Hell out of some wolf 45....

Handgun wise I know I've shot out a glock 17 barrel with it. And have sent many more through most major brand handguns. My biggest complaint is that I have to break handguns down and clean them at least 4 times more than normal. It's the most filthy ammo I've ever shot. It will.clog my mp5 in only 5 mags if I run a can on it.

I also had trouble with a couple of sigs not liking the 45 on several occasions. Both were 220s. One and early west German, the other a newer model.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 6:11:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kylestyle:
so all wolf .223 is that bi-metal shit? and now they're phasing it into every caliber? so now technically all wolf ammo can be said to have a "steel jacket" despite the fact that it's a combo of both?

that's awesome considering this is a common range rule "Only authorized firearms and ammunition may be used. Steel core, steel jacketed, tracer, and incendiary rounds are strictly prohibited"

I'm curious as to whether the ammo I ordered is currently this new bi-metal and whether or not the range would care if I used it.


Some ranges test by magnet...and for me with rifle, it's been a no-go.... Which kinda sucked because it was all Brown Bear 55gr FMJ. But they ended up selling me some Monarch stuff to use............

........yeah, go figure....
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 2:01:02 AM EDT
well the large quantity I bought was 9mm, so I'm curious as to whether or not it has undergone this change
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:51:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kylestyle:
well the large quantity I bought was 9mm, so I'm curious as to whether or not it has undergone this change


If it has, it will say "bi-metal jacket" on the boxes.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 8:29:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By coastal_shredder:
Originally Posted By kylestyle:
well the large quantity I bought was 9mm, so I'm curious as to whether or not it has undergone this change


If it has, it will say "bi-metal jacket" on the boxes.


D, wanna split a case of wolf or tula with me.
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