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Posted: 8/29/2004 4:17:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 4:18:07 AM EST by Az_Redneck]
I'm trying to find more info on the 3 Phx Officers shot last night. I know two passed away and the 3rd went in for surgery. azcentral.com is useless and I can't find any new news since last night about midnight. Anyone have anything to update?

Prayers go out to the families....This is a sad day in Arizona

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:17:18 AM EST
This is all that I found. Truly a sad day.

Two Phoenix police officers killed, one wounded


PHOENIX (AP) -- Two Phoenix police officers were killed and a third wounded Saturday night during a shoot-out at an apartment complex. Following a two-hour standoff, police found the man who shot at the officers was also dead.

The identities of the shooting victims weren't immediately available.

Just before 6 p.m. police responded to a shooting at an apartment complex and found one person shot in the courtyard, said Phoenix Police Commander Kim Humphrey. The person's condition and identity remained unclear.

Since police weren't sure where exactly the shooting happened, they evacuated the area, Humphrey said. When officers neared a doorway, a man began firing at them. Two officers were fatally wounded; a third was struck and undergoing surgery at a Phoenix hospital late Saturday.

Other officers responding to the scene fired back and the man retreated into an apartment, Humphrey said.

Police say a stand off ensued, ending when a tactical team used tear gas and entered the home.

Inside officers found the shooting suspect dead from a gunshot wound, Humphrey. It's unclear if he was killed by police or if the shot was self-inflicted.

Another officer who was also responding to the shooting was involved in an accident near the area and was transported to the hospital.

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:57:58 AM EST
This is too sad.

Sounds like rifle fire of some sort if the guy was able to take down 3 officers ambush style.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 6:09:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 7:28:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 7:28:23 AM EST by mindtrix]
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 7:46:25 AM EST
Very sad.

God bless our L.E.O.'s
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:14:17 AM EST

Soon after the officers' shooting, dozens of police converged on the area, supported by a helicopter, a tactical team, a canine unit and emergency personnel.


I'm wondering why patrol officers were kicking in the door of an apartment looking for a man they knew to be armed and had already shot one person. I would think that situation would have SWAT written all over it.

This is really a sad day.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:59:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:

Soon after the officers' shooting, dozens of police converged on the area, supported by a helicopter, a tactical team, a canine unit and emergency personnel.


I'm wondering why patrol officers were kicking in the door of an apartment looking for a man they knew to be armed and had already shot one person. I would think that situation would have SWAT written all over it.

This is really a sad day.


Read the AZCENTRAL Article. It states that they were concerned that other people were at risk. It's not a decision to be lightly made, to enter an known shooters hide without additional gear.

Yet another reason for tactical training for street level cops, we need ballistic shields and flashbangs on the street. A clear example of how SWAT training should include most of patrol level officers, by the time SWAT arrives, to threat is often eliminated. We have seen an increase in tactical traiining for line officers, post Columbine, but it is nowhere near the level it should be.

Those officers should be commended for their bravery and sacrifice.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 12:06:12 PM EST
This is the first I'm hearing of this. My thoughts are with those brave officers' families.


Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:01:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 3:03:58 PM EST by Carbine10]

I had to work today and my last job was close by the shooting scene. So I decided to drive by, we'll I had to get out and talk with a lady officer.

When I first pulled up I saw the Phoenix Command mobil van. I then reconized the same vehicles that were at my apartment complex, about a month ago. For a mother suicide. Same van and pickup truck for Phoenix investegators. Also same company pickup that cleans up scenes.

I asked the lady officer about the third officer that was shot. She said he was doing fine and went home today. That's a releif!

The lid is being kept tightly closed until everything is sorted out.

There are also flowers laying on the ground by the apartment complex building.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:43:27 PM EST
News just said he was armed with a semi auto handgun.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:21:49 PM EST
I was told in briefing today that it was some rifle (like a 30.06 or something to that effect) My cousin works for Phoenix so I am going to try and call him and see what he knows
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:22:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 7:38:25 PM EST by Winston_Wolf]
... Wow, what a bizarre day at work today. This morning I was reading a little more about this sad news on Arizona Republic on-line. I get to this article about the killer and right off recognize the guy. His name in the news didn’t jog any memories but as soon as I see this picture it hit me.

... About ten years ago he worked in the composite cure/autoclave area. I met him when we were developing a cure cycle for a new composite rotor blade. I remember him always smiling, kinda introverted and weirdly, he drank a case of soda pop a day. His co-workers nicknamed him “soda-pop-tater-tot”.

... He seemed perfectly sane to me. I went over to the lab today and talked to some of the guys that knew him. Evidently, something had been going wrong in the head in the last two years, so said his mom. Being an adult there was little they could do to help. Suspect he may have had a brain tumor or something. Sad, deal all around. I guess he cured himself though.



Doug Tatar
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:47:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
introverted and weirdly, he drank a case of soda pop a day. His co-workers nicknamed him “soda-pop-tater-top”.



I'm telling you, if it was Diet Pepsi... it was the cause. I've seen it do strange things to people
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:59:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 3:11:40 PM EST by KBaker]
I ran a quick Google search on Mr. Tatar. In six different stories from one news source neither the caliber nor the weapon type was mentioned.

You can bet that if it was an "assault weapon" - including an SKS - it would have been mentioned in the first paragraph.

I did find reference to the fact that he'd purchased the firearm after his apartment had been burglarized, and that he'd acquired a concealed-carry permit. That strongly suggests a handgun.

And you wonder how he got through the 8-hours of class for the permit.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:05:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By KBaker:
I ran a quick Google search on Mr. Tatar. In six different stories from one news source neither the caliber nor the weapon type was mentioned.

You can bet that if it was an "assault weapon" - including an SKS - it would have been mentioned in the first paragraph.

I did find reference to the fact that he'd purchased the firearm after his apartment had been burglarized, and that he'd acquired a concealed-carry permit. That strongly suggests a handgun.

And you wonder how he got through the 8-hours of class for the permit.



The class is actually 16 hours...

And if it was a 9mm, you would at least think the news would say the 2 officers were shot with the same round that Uzi's use...

One of the reports I heard said one officer was shot outside his bodyarmor and the other officer was shot in the head....

The shooter got what he deserved....I pray for the families of the officers....
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:32:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By KBaker:
I ran a quick Google search on Mr. Tatar. In six different stories from one news source neither the caliber nor the weapon type was mentioned.



... I understand it was a S&W .40
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:30:13 PM EST
911 tapes were released today.

Tatar (bad guy) was on the phone with a 911 operator. He told her he was in his apartment by himself and still armed with a .40 S&W handgun after shooting his neighbor. He said he feared gang violence and shot him. Operator asked him to drop his weapon and go outside and talk to officers. Tatar said no. You can then hear someone coming up the stairs to his second story apartment landing. He yells for them not to open the front door. You then hear the front door being kicked open and shots fired. Tatar fired at least 10 rounds through the doorway.

News tonight said that both of the officers that were killed had been suspended in the last year for not following orders.

Just a very sad situation.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 1:25:37 AM EST
There is an article in tuesdays republic written by Joseph A. Reaves. he basically drugged the 2 officers names/reputations thru the gutter and just made them out as horrible people. this pos (who i hope i dont run into.. or maybe i do) called 1 of the officers wifes and starts demanding information on her deciced husbands last investagation (as stated above.. ill go into that below) and says "the public has a right to know" . doesnt even give his condolenses (sp?) or anything, just starts going off on her. gawd i love how the media(i know, i know, not ALL of them.. just these (sh*t heads) can do/say these things and hid behind their own "ballistic vest" they call freedom of speech.

as far as the last investigation. the "direct order" he didnt follow was he didnt stay in his beat area.. gawd forbid he goes somewhere just out of his beat area for lunch. hinking.gif
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 2:12:51 AM EST
So pissed off I can't type a coherent sentence..........

They're not even cold yet and fucktardedcumdrippingassrapernewsfags are already dragging them thru the mud.

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:25:14 PM EST

They're not even cold yet and fucktardedcumdrippingassrapernewsfags are already dragging them thru the mud.


what he said!

u c the article in the republic today? i forgot the 101's name that wrote it, but she wrote about all the possitive things / comidations that they did. i just know some of the people here at work have called his home # to speak with him, but he "surprisingly" isnt home... but his wife always answers.

btw AZ-K9, r u the same AZK9 thats on the EOS board?
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 4:50:32 AM EST
I get damn tired of wearing the sash on the badge.
And so, I will probably be attending another two funerals.
To think, before this job I thought Amazing Grace was a awesome song,
now it just brings on an allergy attack.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 4:36:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Az_Redneck:
Originally Posted By KBaker:
I ran a quick Google search on Mr. Tatar. In six different stories from one news source neither the caliber nor the weapon type was mentioned.

You can bet that if it was an "assault weapon" - including an SKS - it would have been mentioned in the first paragraph.

I did find reference to the fact that he'd purchased the firearm after his apartment had been burglarized, and that he'd acquired a concealed-carry permit. That strongly suggests a handgun.

And you wonder how he got through the 8-hours of class for the permit.



The class is actually 16 hours.Mea culpa. I knew that.

So, a .40 eh? Obviously not a high-capacity fully-automatic bullethose. Best not mention it in the story, then.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 1:59:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 2:00:21 PM EST by The_Friendly_Sponge]

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
911 tapes were released today.

Tatar (bad guy) was on the phone with a 911 operator. He told her he was in his apartment by himself and still armed with a .40 S&W handgun after shooting his neighbor. He said he feared gang violence and shot him. Operator asked him to drop his weapon and go outside and talk to officers. Tatar said no. You can then hear someone coming up the stairs to his second story apartment landing. He yells for them not to open the front door. You then hear the front door being kicked open and shots fired. Tatar fired at least 10 rounds through the doorway.

News tonight said that both of the officers that were killed had been suspended in the last year for not following orders.

Just a very sad situation.




I freely admit that I KNOW NOTHING about this situation other than what's been in the news and what I've read here. I have, however, been concerned ever since I heard this story that we might have a situation of police officers (any coincedence that they're so young?) being impulsive and acting contrary to department policies for these types of situations.

I'm not blaming anyone other than the shooter for this sorry turn of events, but I can't help but wonder if a little more discretion could have helped defuse the situation.

Guess we'll know more when the reports are released.

Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:10:59 PM EST
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=76&t=268773

I'll paste my post from that thread here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...ut-records.html

Joseph A. Reaves
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 31, 2004 12:00 AM

Both Phoenix police officers killed in the line of duty last weekend had been reprimanded for violating department policies, and one was suspended without pay for more than a week earlier this year, personnel records reveal.

Officer Eric White was suspended for 60 hours without pay in January for a series of incidents that occurred between October and December 2002 during an investigation of a complaint filed by a citizen.

The nature of the citizen complaint could not immediately be determined from White's personnel files, which The Arizona Republic obtained through a public-records request.

A police Disciplinary Review Board found that White twice violated orders from his superiors by discussing the ongoing investigation with other police employees and once went to the home of the citizen to discuss the complaint.

"Any future infraction will result in further disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal," the board notified White in writing on Jan. 5.

White also received a formal written reprimand for punching a theft suspect in the face on Oct. 5, 2002, just nine days before he violated orders and spoke about the investigation of the citizen complaint.

"The force used to affect the arrest was improper," White's supervising sergeant wrote.

Jason Wolfe, the other officer killed while trying to storm an apartment on Saturday, was reprimanded July 29, 2003, for leaving his assigned area without notifying his supervisor and sending personal messages through official channels to a dispatcher.

"You sent 59 (e-mail) messages to one dispatcher between 16:12 and 22:57 hours (4:12 p.m. and 10:57 p.m.) on June 28, 2003," Wolfe's supervisor wrote. "Many of these messages were of a personal nature."

Neither of the official reprimands against White or Wolfe directly related to the kind of standoff they encountered. However, any violation of department policy is considered significant.

Officers are given written reprimands when their superiors determine "that a serious infraction has occurred" and the officer's "conduct is unacceptable."

Wolfe, 27, joined the force on Jan. 31, 2000, as a recruit and was promoted to full-time officer in the Squaw Peak precinct in May 2000.

White, 30, joined the force on June 22, 2000, and was promoted to full-time officer in October 2000. He worked in the Maryvale precinct and the communications department before transferring to the Squaw Peak precinct on Aug. 11, 2003.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That article was originally posted in Glock Talk, I didn't cut an paste the oroginal posters comments.

So after these 2 officers die in the line of duty, the newspaper thinks it's important to print out thier weaknesses. On another post on ARFCOM, someone said another local newspaper printed the multiple positive commendations each office had.

When I read the article I see one real issue. Use of force by an officer from a prior arrest. He violated orders by talking about the complaint. How many people think if they were being investigated, it would be apropriate to have a "no talk" order placed on them?

The other officer sent 59 e-mails in a shift to a dispatcher. Whoop-dee-do. It's the equivalent of getting caught passing notes in grade school. Stupid for people to do, but getting worked up about it is even stupider.

Locally supervisors are assigned to review e-mails. I saw a print out, 270 pages long, with highlighted e-mails. Most were just "chat". Some might consider that "team building". None had any swears or racial components. Several e-mails that were deemed inapropriate were in Spanish. Don't know when Spanish became inapropriate. A few were just dumb.

The only thing it really proves to me is that some people need more busy work to feel fully employed.

Writing a newspaper article about e-mails, that a person that was recently killed, is far worse than the e-mails. It's insensitive at best.

Wait until someone else get murdered in that area (a non-cop), I would bet large sums of money that same newspaper will run anrticle about how misunderstood he was, was turning his life around, etc. etc.

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